Progesterone and Prolactin

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    U got it bro. Lol I thought u really liked it soooo...... Anyway e2 before cycle in dec was less thn 20 then a week later gyno popped up. March e2 was 29 and I was on 40mg epi 300mg npp and test 610mg
    Alright, it's been too many posts since we talked about it. so a week after getting a reading of 20 for e2 your gyno popped up. What else did your test measure?


  2. Ill have to look. T levels in the 200s prolactin normal like 6. Then march t levels 3487 and e2 29 and prl 8ish

    I will let u know when I'm back from dc ill send it to u in a pm
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    Ill have to look. T levels in the 200s prolactin normal like 6. Then march t levels 3487 and e2 29 and prl 8ish

    I will let u know when I'm back from dc ill send it to u in a pm
    I am particularly interested in SHBG and estrone levels. Did you have free test versus total test?

  4. I don't believe I had estrone done and I'm not sure on shbg but when I get home monday ill let u know

  5. I don't believe I had estrone done and I'm not sure on shbg but when I get home monday ill let u know
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  6. Just putting this link from another thread here at AM about Dienedrone/Estra 4,9's here, for easy reference :

    Nasty Dienedrone sides

  7. Quote Originally Posted by sethroberts View Post
    I am particularly interested in SHBG and estrone levels. Did you have free test versus total test?
    Any updates on this?

  8. What would be a suitable PCT for SD? All this science talk is getting me confused :/

  9. subed want to follow

  10. ...

  11. great thread

  12. SEth...come back!!! This is a GREAT thread--keep it going.

    OK, what about SERM use during a cycle of something supressive to SHBG, for example Super Drol or P-Plex? Would you suggest Nolva over Clomid? Would 10 mg./day of Nolva probably be sufficient to get the job done in terms of antagonizing the estrogen receptor and helping keep SHBG not quite so supressed?

    I prefer Clomid during PCT; is low dose Nolva (~10 mg./day) on cycle, followed by Clomid during PCT (tapered down and perhaps extended to 6 weeks in order to allow SHBG to normalize and the freed estrone to be cleared) sound like a solid protocol?


    Crowbar

    P.S. I WILL be getting your book--fascinating stuff!

  13. Quote Originally Posted by crowbar46 View Post
    SEth...come back!!! This is a GREAT thread--keep it going.

    OK, what about SERM use during a cycle of something supressive to SHBG, for example Super Drol or P-Plex? Would you suggest Nolva over Clomid? Would 10 mg./day of Nolva probably be sufficient to get the job done in terms of antagonizing the estrogen receptor and helping keep SHBG not quite so supressed?

    I prefer Clomid during PCT; is low dose Nolva (~10 mg./day) on cycle, followed by Clomid during PCT (tapered down and perhaps extended to 6 weeks in order to allow SHBG to normalize and the freed estrone to be cleared) sound like a solid protocol?


    Crowbar


    P.S. I WILL be getting your book--fascinating stuff!
    I'm always here I lurk a lot looking for interesting discussions.

    To answer your question, I don't know for sure. Tamoxifen should increase SHBG levels but no studies have been performed on this particular question. I would have to look in the literature to see if I could get an idea on dose.

  14. I understand, but in principle you have no objection to using low dose Nolva on cycle and Clomid during PCT?


    Crowbar

  15. Quote Originally Posted by crowbar46 View Post
    I understand, but in principle you have no objection to using low dose Nolva on cycle and Clomid during PCT?


    Crowbar
    Not at all.

  16. Seth, I know this is off topic, but while I have you here...What do you think of M1-T? I can obtain some from the UK which I have heard from users of the older versions that it is legit.

    I understand this is an open ended question; however, do you have a very strong opinion one way or the other? Some people would never consider using M1-T, and think of it as nothing more than poison in a pill.

    Crowbar

  17. Quote Originally Posted by crowbar46 View Post
    Seth, I know this is off topic, but while I have you here...What do you think of M1-T? I can obtain some from the UK which I have heard from users of the older versions that it is legit.

    I understand this is an open ended question; however, do you have a very strong opinion one way or the other? Some people would never consider using M1-T, and think of it as nothing more than poison in a pill.

    Crowbar
    I don't think of it as any worse than superdrol really. Both pretty toxic but superdrol might give a few more pounds of water weight gain. In a perfect world, I would never use either of them.

  18. Great... totally awesome read tonight!!! SO SO much info.

    Seth, how would you setup oncycle support and PCT for these designer such as SD, Phera and Tren to help prevent against gyno and other unwanted sides. Are you saying to pretty much stay away from an AI oncycle and in PCT?

    What do you think about using clomid wks 1-4 along with tamox wks 1-4. Then starting wk 3 add the AI and taper the dose from wk 3-6 (thus extending it 2 wks past the SERMS).

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    Great... totally awesome read tonight!!! SO SO much info.

    Seth, how would you setup oncycle support and PCT for these designer such as SD, Phera and Tren to help prevent against gyno and other unwanted sides. Are you saying to pretty much stay away from an AI oncycle and in PCT?

    What do you think about using clomid wks 1-4 along with tamox wks 1-4. Then starting wk 3 add the AI and taper the dose from wk 3-6 (thus extending it 2 wks past the SERMS).
    I would probably use a SERM on cycle. I have never been a fan of AI use during or after a cycle unless the dosing is kept very low because they tend to reduce estrogen too much. I think there is a huge amount of gyno hysteria out there (and probably rightfully so). If one uses AAS long enough then there is a very strong liklihood, if not a certainty, of getting gyno and losing hair -- two things that men do not want. But, if you are constantly squeezing your nips, then you may be causing problems. It is not unusual for breast tissue to swell while on a cycle (especially if constantly being squeezed) but true gynecomastia is not swelling.

  20. It's interesting, when I used to run "real" gear (before this present legal hysteria) none of us were obsessed with the use of AI's like guys are today--just a SERM on cycle (with some HcG sometimes) and clomid during PCT. It worked perfectly. I agree with you Seth, this preoccupation with very powerful AI's is not good.

    On an unrelated note: I use 200 mg. caffeine (+ Alpha-GPC, Power Drive--a supplement that provides the precursors to catecholamine production, and Rhodiola) 1 1/2 hours before I work out. I also use carbs/protein (PeptoPro) both before and during my workout. Do you think the caffeine (and Power Drive), due to increased release of catecholimines, will impair insulin sensitivity, and thus the anabolic/anti-catabolic effects I'm trying to elicit from the insulin and protein?


    Thanks so much for your time,

    Crowbar

  21. Quote Originally Posted by crowbar46 View Post
    It's interesting, when I used to run "real" gear (before this present legal hysteria) none of us were obsessed with the use of AI's like guys are today--just a SERM on cycle (with some HcG sometimes) and clomid during PCT. It worked perfectly. I agree with you Seth, this preoccupation with very powerful AI's is not good.

    On an unrelated note: I use 200 mg. caffeine (+ Alpha-GPC, Power Drive--a supplement that provides the precursors to catecholamine production, and Rhodiola) 1 1/2 hours before I work out. I also use carbs/protein (PeptoPro) both before and during my workout. Do you think the caffeine (and Power Drive), due to increased release of catecholimines, will impair insulin sensitivity, and thus the anabolic/anti-catabolic effects I'm trying to elicit from the insulin and protein?


    Thanks so much for your time,

    Crowbar

    Possibly but so would high intensity physical activity which is why I prefer a post workout carb induced insulin spike and refeed as opposed to pre or during workout.

  22. This is an interesting area: I've been following the threads at T-Nation concerning this topic, and it does seem some research as well as people's experience is showing positive results with the pre/during protocol. However, I obviously see your point or I wouldn't have asked. I'm going to be asking Bill Roberts his opinion on this; meanwhile I'm experimenting with the carb/protein pari-workout protocol.

    Crowbar

  23. Quote Originally Posted by crowbar46 View Post
    This is an interesting area: I've been following the threads at T-Nation concerning this topic, and it does seem some research as well as people's experience is showing positive results with the pre/during protocol. However, I obviously see your point or I wouldn't have asked. I'm going to be asking Bill Roberts his opinion on this; meanwhile I'm experimenting with the carb/protein pari-workout protocol.

    Crowbar
    Even the literature is split on this one. If you are using exogenous insulin then it probably doesn't make as much differenc ebefore or after or during. But my current opinion is that post is better.

  24. Seth

    Ok so here it is. I have read quite a bit of what you have to say about tren related gyno and I'm a bit curious how I should go about combating what I think my issues are. Mostly a swollen almost hard knot that forms from either substance. From what I recall I had this even using tren ace alone. Now with a few cycles under my belt it pops up very easily. I have nolva on hand. Should I use this for the entire cycle? Anything else I should use for the duration? And as far as pct, what would be my best bet? Nolva and clomid? I will be using Melanotan 2 also.

    This will be a low dose cycle.

    50mg tren ace eod along with 50mg prop eod. I have come to realize that I respond very well at low doses. I can also go ED for both if you think I will have less sides due to blood lvls.

    Thanks for the help!

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Builtone666 View Post
    Seth

    Ok so here it is. I have read quite a bit of what you have to say about tren related gyno and I'm a bit curious how I should go about combating what I think my issues are. Mostly a swollen almost hard knot that forms from either substance. From what I recall I had this even using tren ace alone. Now with a few cycles under my belt it pops up very easily. I have nolva on hand. Should I use this for the entire cycle? Anything else I should use for the duration? And as far as pct, what would be my best bet? Nolva and clomid? I will be using Melanotan 2 also.

    This will be a low dose cycle.

    50mg tren ace eod along with 50mg prop eod. I have come to realize that I respond very well at low doses. I can also go ED for both if you think I will have less sides due to blood lvls.

    Thanks for the help!
    Have you had any blood work done or had a physician look at your lumps?

    Nobody is going to be able to guarantee you anything (especially in the absence of bloodwork to know what is truly going on) but if I was you i would either avoid the offending AAS or use Nolva throughout. For PCT you could add clomid to the nolva or switch from nolva to clomid -- but then I might be a little worried of post-cycle gyno. Why are you using the melanotan? for the tanning effects or the erection effects? or both?

  26. Had a doc look at the one side, the most bothersome, and he said it was normal haha and that I shouldn't worry about it. I would really like to avoid the puffiness, it's pretty annoying and has made me think twice about even doing another run. Have blood work done every 6 months, I would have to dig them up somehow. Yes, using the Melanotan 2 for the tan and other sides. From what I have heard it helps with libido during cycle. I also want to see just how dark i can get with minimal UV exposure. I know there is no guarantee, I have been fallowing this thread the best I can, I'm just looking for the best suggestion for for the two. So maybe I should say a hypothetical suggestion haha.

    Thanks again!

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Builtone666 View Post
    Had a doc look at the one side, the most bothersome, and he said it was normal haha and that I shouldn't worry about it. I would really like to avoid the puffiness, it's pretty annoying and has made me think twice about even doing another run. Have blood work done every 6 months, I would have to dig them up somehow. Yes, using the Melanotan 2 for the tan and other sides. From what I have heard it helps with libido during cycle. I also want to see just how dark i can get with minimal UV exposure. I know there is no guarantee, I have been fallowing this thread the best I can, I'm just looking for the best suggestion for for the two. So maybe I should say a hypothetical suggestion haha.

    Thanks again!
    Its all hypothetical
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