Progesterone and Prolactin
- 04-21-2009, 08:51 PM
- 04-21-2009, 08:52 PM
So you think if i used a low dose of AI after i stopped that SERM would have brought me different results?
04-21-2009, 08:52 PM
People started invoking "new" mechanisms for the induction of gyno in the late 1990's -- As far as I know, I was one of the first people proposing progesterone receptor activation as a potential cause of gyno back then. I have changed my mind since then as I have accumulated knowledge over the years. There is no evidence that progesterone or prolactin intitiate gynecomastia but plenty of evidence that estrogen does. All of this stemmed fro mthe fact that people were complaining of gyno from anadrol but also fron tren and nandrolone none of which were supposed to convert to estrogen. What I realized a while ago is that there is no need to invoke exotic mechanisms. Pher and superdrol do not convert to estrogen (nor does tren or anadrol) but they do suppress SHBG. SHBG is actually protective against breast tissue growth beyond just sequestering estrogens (you can read more about this in my book ). The removal of this protective effect as weel as the increase in "free" estrogen from the reduction in SHBG can explain some of the propensity for forming gyno with these compounds. With nandrolone, trenbolone, and other 19-norsteroids, there is also the added production of 5-alpha reduced metabolites that are weak androgens (there is some evidence that tren is metabolized in this fashion) which upstes the androgen to estrogen rati and further contributes to the ability to produce gyno.
04-21-2009, 08:54 PM
04-21-2009, 08:54 PM
04-21-2009, 08:55 PM
When I was on a sust/deca cycle I had some first signs of gyno like symptoms. Note I say signs as there were never a lump or discharge that developed. What I do know is that nolva took care of ALL of the symptoms in quick fashion. I also used it along with clomid for pct. This was a year ago and never had issue since.
That said I am week 3 into m-drol cycle and am using a-dex at very low dose and am taking low dose vitex and am have zero sensations in nipple area. I make sure bodyfat is always below 12 percent before starting any cycle as I think this helps.
Just shows that there are a few ways to skin a cat.
04-21-2009, 08:56 PM
04-21-2009, 08:57 PM
what about the study showing nolva causes sperm damage? im still young when i recover i dont want that to recover and have poor sperm
04-21-2009, 08:58 PM
04-21-2009, 08:59 PM
04-21-2009, 09:00 PM
04-21-2009, 09:01 PM
04-21-2009, 09:04 PM
04-21-2009, 09:06 PM
04-21-2009, 09:24 PM
04-21-2009, 09:29 PM
This thread is very informative and confusing at the same time. There are so many different theories that once you think you have a good understanding on how to prevent certain things, you read a different (yet still legit) opinion.
04-21-2009, 10:46 PM
04-21-2009, 11:15 PM
04-21-2009, 11:18 PM
Im not sure the second study has much relevance. I’m not recommending vitex for PCT.
04-21-2009, 11:27 PM
AR binding data is the ultimate tell all of a steroids effects eh? Interesting...
04-21-2009, 11:32 PM
04-21-2009, 11:34 PM
04-22-2009, 07:42 AM
04-22-2009, 07:43 AM
04-22-2009, 07:47 AM
04-22-2009, 08:46 AM
04-22-2009, 10:47 AM
Other than keeping dosages and length of cycle reasonable, is there any way of limiting these sides while on a SD-clone?Pher and superdrol do not convert to estrogen (nor does tren or anadrol) but they do suppress SHBG. SHBG is actually protective against breast tissue growth beyond just sequestering estrogens
Or, in your opinion, what would be the best way to run an Mdrol cycle, including PCT?
04-22-2009, 12:10 PM
04-22-2009, 12:22 PM
04-22-2009, 03:50 PM
(Full article attached)
U. Karck and F. Kommoss
Does tamoxifen change oestrogen and progesterone receptor expression in the endometrium and breast?
Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, University of Freiburg, Hugstetter Straβe 55, 79106 Freiburg, Germany
Institute of Pathology, University of Mainz, 55101 Mainz, Germany
1: Cancer. 1993 Feb 15;71(4):1266-72.Links
Up-regulation of estrogen receptor by tamoxifen in human breast cancer.
Noguchi S, Motomura K, Inaji H, Imaoka S, Koyama H.
Department of Surgery, Center for Adult Diseases, Osaka, Japan.
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