alright so im on a cycle of pheraflex and i started it thinking my cycle assist will be here the next day. well its 3 days late and its coming in two days. my liver is okay for 2 days right? ive been on 15 mg of phera for now
No running it the rest of the cycle is not a waste..Yes it would've been better to preload..but it's still gonna offer some protection.He should start running it as soon as he gets it..And next time OP should plan ahead ..It's not that hard!!!no its not gonna kill him at all...but if your gonna run the liver sups they need to be pre-loaded or your wasting your money....do a little research on how they actually work and you will see what i mean...so op...if i were you id just run the cycle and forget about your cycle support....next time dont jump the gun....be responsible!
Yea, don't worry about it. You'll survive. "liver support" is a fairly new concept in the use of 17-alpha methyl androgens.alright so im on a cycle of pheraflex and i started it thinking my cycle assist will be here the next day. well its 3 days late and its coming in two days. my liver is okay for 2 days right? ive been on 15 mg of phera for now
ummm...the liver supps need to be preloaded for a couple of weeks for them to be effective...so no...this is not okay
Where did you get this information? The main goal in most of these OTC liver supplements is to increase glutathione production. These don't need to be pre-loaded for this to work. NAC, for example, is often given as treatment for drug overdoses or drug toxicity. Why? Because its effective after the harmful substance has been ingested.no its not gonna kill him at all...but if your gonna run the liver sups they need to be pre-loaded or your wasting your money....do a little research on how they actually work and you will see what i mean...so op...if i were you id just run the cycle and forget about your cycle support....next time dont jump the gun....be responsible!
How do you feel about R-ala ??Yea, don't worry about it. You'll survive. "liver support" is a fairly new concept in the use of 17-alpha methyl androgens.
That said, I'm not even convinced that most of these OTC "liver cleaners" will do much of anything to help prevent the androgen induced intrahepatic cholestasis (bile congestion). The etiology is quite different from most other drug induced hepatitis conditions.
One of the few compounds that have clinical support to their claims is TUDCA, the active in thermolife's liver longer. Another is Compound-N or Hepatopro which consists of Polyunsaturated polyenylphophatidylcholine (PPC).
Its good. As are NAC, SAMe, etc. Anything with the purpose of increasing hepatic glutathione levels certainly won't hurt. Additionally, its a potent anti-oxidant.How do you feel about R-ala ??
So basically for the kind of liver damage acetaminophen creates NAC works.But for the kind of liver damage you get from steroids these supplements may not be any help at all?? That sucksIts good. As are NAC, SAMe, etc. Anything with the purpose of increasing hepatic glutathione levels certainly won't hurt. Additionally, its a potent anti-oxidant.
The jury is still out however as to whether it does a damn thing for intrahepatic cholestasis though. Same for most of the more common "liver support supplements".
Yeah, pretty much. That said, there are products targeted specifically for this.So basically for the kind of liver damage acetaminophen creates NAC works.But for the kind of liver damage you get from steroids these supplements may not be any help at all?? That sucks
Clin Toxicol (Phila). 2007 Aug 30;:1-10
Multivitamins and phospholipids complex protects the hepatic cells from androgenic-anabolic-steroids-induced toxicity.
Pagonis TA, Koukoulis GN, Hadjichristodoulou CS, Toli PN, Angelopoulos NV. Department of Endocrinology, Thessaly University Medical School, Larissa, Greece.
Introduction. Androgenic-anabolic-steroids (AAS)-induced hepatotoxicity typically occurs with C-17 alkylated oral agents abused by exercising individuals at clinically recommended doses. Injectable compounds appear to have the same risk for hepatotoxicity, but are applied in doses three to six times higher than clinically recommended. AAS users occasionally try to avoid the well-known hepatotoxic effects associated with the abuse of a multitude of AAS agents, by using the pharmaceutical agent compound N a phospholipid/vitamin preparation. Primary Objective. The investigation of the actual hepatoprotective effect of compound N against AAS-induced toxicity. Methodology. This was an observational cohort study of 320 athletes; 160 were AAS users and the other 160 were not abusing any substances. Of the 160 users, 44 were using AAS and compound N (group A), and 116 were using solely AAS (group . The 160 athletes abstaining from substances abuse acted as controls (group C). All athletes were tested for alterations in serum levels of hepatic enzymes. Enzyme levels before the study's onset and after the end of the 8-week AAS regimes were compared among the three groups, in order to delineate the hepatoprotective effect of compound N. Results. Prior to our research all groups showed normal values in all enzymes except creatine kinase (CK). After the 8-week period, CK levels were slightly lower in group A, but without variation in Groups B and C; gamma-Glutamyl Transferase (gammaGT) levels remained normal. Groups A and C had no elevations in any of the enzymes, except CK, while in group B all enzymes' values were elevated above the normal range. The only factor differentiating AAS users in group A from those in group B was the use of compound N, thus the results being suggestive of the compound's detoxification effect. The severity of AAS abuse was positively associated with the degree of changes (Delta values) in all measured enzymes except gammaGT and CK. Conclusions. Previous suggestions that serum hepatic enzyme elevations in exercising AAS abusers are connected to muscle fiber damage rather than the abuse itself, are contradicted by our results. Since all AAS abusing athletes were prone to exhibit elevations in enzymes' values, the mean values of group A were to be similar to those observed in group B, exceeding normal values. The group hepatic enzyme values of group B were significantly higher than the group C (control). Notably, group A did not have any statistically significant difference in the hepatic enzyme values compared to group C. The effect of exercise on these enzymes' elevations was ruled out by the comparability of training regimens and AAS toxicity was correlated to the severity of AAS abuse.
The Journal of Nutrition Vol. 127 No. 9 September 1997, pp. 1800-1806
Copyright ©1997 by the American Society for Nutritional Sciences
Polyenylphosphatidylcholine Attenuates Alcohol-Induced Fatty Liver and Hyperlipemia in Rats
Khursheed P. Navder*, Enrique Baraona, and Charles S. Lieber,
Alcohol Research and Treatment Center, Bronx Veterans Affairs Medical Center and Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York, NY 10468 and * Department of Nutrition and Food Science, Hunter College of C.U.N.Y., New York, NY
Chronic administration of a soybean-derived polyenylphosphatidylcholine (PPC) extract prevents the development of cirrhosis in alcohol-fed baboons. To assess whether this phospholipid also affects earlier changes induced by alcohol consumption (such as fatty liver and hyperlipemia), 28 male rat littermates were pair-fed liquid diets containing 36% of energy either as ethanol or as additional carbohydrate for 21 d, and killed 90 min after intragastric administration of the corresponding diets. Half of the rats were given PPC (3 g/l), whereas the other half received the same amount of linoleate (as safflower oil) and choline (as bitartrate salt). PPC did not affect diet or alcohol consumption [15.4 ± 0.5 G/(kg·d)], but the ethanol-induced hepatomegaly and the hepatic accumulation of lipids (principally triglycerides and cholesterol esters) and proteins were about half those in rats not given PPC. The ethanol-induced postprandial hyperlipemia was lower with PPC than without, despite an enhanced fat absorption and no difference in the level of plasma free fatty acids. The attenuation of fatty liver and hyperlipemia was associated with correction of the ethanol-induced inhibition of mitochondrial oxidation of palmitoyl-1-carnitine and the depression of cytochrome oxidase activity, as well as the increases in activity of serum glutamate dehydrogenase and aminotransferases. Thus, PPC attenuates early manifestations of alcohol toxicity, at least in part, by improving mitochondrial injury. These beneficial effects of PPC at the initial stages of alcoholic liver injury may prevent or delay the progression to more advanced forms of alcoholic liver disease.
You could...or check out hepatopro. I personally like both.liver longer has been on back order for a while too. im wondering if i should wait til its back in stock to run my epi cycle.
Good post Royd!Also to add on to what quigs stated, I believe 10-20% of lecithin is PPC. Lecithin is very cheap last I checked. It may not rival the high doses you get from hepatopro however (I have not ran the numbers just saying...).
Honestly, I like both if you can afford to. Problem is, both are around $30-35 for a month's supply so it can add up. So, if I had to chose just one it would probably be thermolife's liver longer. I really like that product for this purpose and am shocked that it doesn't have much following on the boards. You can continue through PCT, but IMO it would depend on the androgen used and the compound used for PCT itself.So quigs, are you saying take Thermolife Liver Longer or LEF Hepatopro, or both while on cycle? (as well as NAC) Keep taking during pct as well? What else would you reccomend. I am thinking of giving "the one" a shot...did a PP 1T solo and it gave me a little bit of mass gain and a little more strength, but not too much (it was my first ever cycle and everything was on point) (using the SA, toco8 and endoamp in pct). Thanks for your input quigs (sorry if I'm slightly hijacking, just figured others would like to know as well).
Don't bother.wait should i double dose then for a week to get a little more in me or would that be stupid...
I know kids that took m1t when it first came out and took NO support in anyway. They ran it 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off, 4 on, 4 off, etc continuously and they seem to be perfectly healthy.alright so im on a cycle of pheraflex and i started it thinking my cycle assist will be here the next day. well its 3 days late and its coming in two days. my liver is okay for 2 days right? ive been on 15 mg of phera for now
thanks alot... it came in on monday so ive been taking the maxiumum dosage but one week today ive been on PF and i feel alot thicker already... plus ive been taking trisorbagen which i think is helping ALOTI know kids that took m1t when it first came out and took NO support in anyway. They ran it 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off, 4 on, 4 off, etc continuously and they seem to be perfectly healthy.
I'm in no way condoning this kind of ass-backwards retarded course of action, but I think if they're okay, you should survive a couple days without.
Thread starter | Similar threads | Forum | Replies | Date |
---|---|---|---|---|
First cycle in 4-5 years…assistance? | Anabolics | 0 | ||
CEL Cycle Assist - New Updated Version - Now Available | Supplements | 9 | ||
Cycle assist is now crap ? | Anabolics | 34 | ||
CEL CYCLE ASSIST | Supplements | 6 | ||
USA WTB CEL Cycle Assist | Supplement Auction | 0 |