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    Monsterbox is powered by P-Plex


    Just started by New Year Bulk. Its been 90 days since my 3wk Havoc run. Ready to hit it hard with P-Plex.

    The Stats:
    5' 8'' - 184.5lbs, 10-11% BF, 15.5inch arms

    The Goals:
    200lbs, 9-10%, hit 16+inches

    The Cycle Layout:
    P-Plex - 20/30/30/40
    Possibly Havoc - 0/0/0/30/30/40

    Supports:
    Cissus Bulk - Pre/On/Off 5g/day morning/night
    Bulk 1-Carboxy (Powerfull) - Pre/On 1/3tsp morning/night
    Hawthorne Berries - 560mg - Pre/on 2x day
    B6 - 50mg 3x day pre/on
    Fish Oil - 10g Pre/On/Off daily
    Milk Thistle - 1000mg Pre/On/Off daily

    PCT:
    Toremifene Citrate - 90/60/60/30
    Reversitol - 0/0/3/2/2/1

    Standby:
    Maca Root
    P-5-P
    Ejaculoid
    Viagra



    What I hate about most logs are the lack of pictures. Don't tell me how much mass you've gained if you can't back it up...pictures are definitely worth at least a few hundred words.

    Before Pictures:
    Right After Havoc...most current front shot..I look pretty much the same, maybe a little more muscular in my shoulders


    Current Back Shot

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    Day 2: 20mg P-Plex


    Have been taking 20mg/day P-plex spaced out...wakeup and 3pm w/ 5grams of fish oil each dose and high fat meal.


    All I notice is I feel alot smaller since I've come off of creatine...no pump and less endurance.

    Feel nothing so far...

    Should I bump up to 30mgs yet? I remember having a pump from havoc start as early as first dose.
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    plex half life is longer than havoc if i remember also what cycle is this 3 right? i don't know if you can realistaclly expect 15lbs on your third cycle. usually gains go down. Not trying to be a downer just don't want you to be disappointed. although of course this all depends on how close to genetic potential you are at. Remember for Pros on a TON of Juice 15lbs a year is a big gain just for perspective. Don't get me wrong because i know your diet and training are on point. But you gained so much in the last year that it's going to get harder to make the same gains in the same amount of time.
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    I'm about 6 days into my PPlex cycle, Im running 20/20/30/30.

    I havent felt to much yet in the gym. Although today I started feeling a kind of warm sensation throughout my body, and a little anxiety. Also Ive noticed increased appetite, and Im thristy as hell all day!

    Good luck on your journey!
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    Subbed for another log of yours
    ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
    Strongest On The Market
    RECOVERBRO: Est. Post #3222
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    If you aren't worried about possible gyno complications then bump it to 30 right away, otherwise take more time to let the levels build up slowly.

    Phera takes a little bit longer to kick in, in terms of strength... I noticed weight gains very quickly however. Strength lagged and then picked up a noticable amount in week 3. I ran 30mg straight through in that cycle.

    Monster, i love your goals. I say screw "realistic" goals, aim HIGH, always aim high. Never be satisfied, haha. I've made strong gains off of sometimes what I think is just mental confidence.
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot
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    I have alot more stength to gain which makes me believe i'm not close to a strength wall...thus meaning I have alot more size to put on.

    I'm only putting up 85's dumbell press for 12...and squatting 315 on smith machine...I mean I should be able to do alot more before I'm maxing out my genetic potential. Theres tons of smaller guys that are WAY stronger than me...my size is way ahead of my stength. This leads me to believe that I have much more room to grow and thus any PH/Steroid should work out well.

    I don't believe in the consecutive cycles reduces gains...this only should happen if you run long cycles without proper time period to allow testosterone to return. Short, lightly suppressive cycles shouldn't hinder gains. However, when you have reached your genetic limit and are using steroids to surpass that, then certainly the gains will have diminishing returns.


    Anyhow:

    Shoulder workout went great today. The last reps really really burn because I'm used to being on creatine. Can't wait for this crap to kick in!
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    I have alot more stength to gain which makes me believe i'm not close to a strength wall...thus meaning I have alot more size to put on.

    I'm only putting up 85's dumbell press for 12...and squatting 315 on smith machine...I mean I should be able to do alot more before I'm maxing out my genetic potential. Theres tons of smaller guys that are WAY stronger than me...my size is way ahead of my stength. This leads me to believe that I have much more room to grow and thus any PH/Steroid should work out well.

    I don't believe in the consecutive cycles reduces gains...this only should happen if you run long cycles without proper time period to allow testosterone to return. Short, lightly suppressive cycles shouldn't hinder gains. However, when you have reached your genetic limit and are using steroids to surpass that, then certainly the gains will have diminishing returns.


    Anyhow:

    Shoulder workout went great today. The last reps really really burn because I'm used to being on creatine. Can't wait for this crap to kick in!

    i hear what you mean man, i can put up the 80 lb dumbells for 10 (with help on the last two) and theres this dude up at la where i go who seems to be about 5 inches shorter than me and just as skinny, whos putting up the hundo's no problemo! it kinds pisses me off really.
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    I really believe it has something to do with muscle maturity...even if you have lots of LBM, this doesn't mean the muscles are matured and as dense as possible. Probably why my strength doesn't correspond to size. I feel like steroids get your big and somewhat strong, but the muscles that look great, feel big and dense, just aren't as mature as if you've worked for them for years and years.



    Anyhow, should I start expecting a constant pump feeling like creatine soon? I miss walking around feeling jacked. I know havoc did this in 3 days.
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    ill go along for the ride even tho i have trouble following logs, having so many on my sub list.

    just because one guy is stronger and smaller than you doesnt mean you arent close to your genetic peak, everyone has different genetic peaks whether it be size or strength. One guy may have a very high peak for size but another guy 50lbs smaller has a higher peak for strength. Strength is also genetic.

    Looking good for a shorter guy, definately alot of potential there. You may be able to compete someday, do you have desires to do so? You look like you have a good frame for it.

    I see no reason why you cant use an NO booster or something for a pump while you wait. If you are impatient i think you can go to 30mg pplex now. Pplex is not as strong mg for mg as the OG AX pheraplex was. (30mg was alot)
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    i wouldnt use torem with reversitol

    Reason:

    Torem has been shown in a few studies to lower E2. Basically this means, as well as it works as a SERM it has AI properties.

    So adding Reverstiol in the mix may lower E2 even lower and inhibit libido.

    my suggestion is to Run PCS or another test booster with NO AI in it along side the Torem
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    i wouldnt use torem with reversitol

    Reason:

    Torem has been shown in a few studies to lower E2. Basically this means, as well as it works as a SERM it has AI properties.

    So adding Reverstiol in the mix may lower E2 even lower and inhibit libido.

    my suggestion is to Run PCS or another test booster with NO AI in it along side the Torem
    i see your point but i dont think it should be too much of a problem since he is starting the reversitol in week 3. Monster, maybe lower it to 2 caps in week 3....or just lower the torem to 30mg in week 3.....? PCS would be a good choice too, or sustain alpha
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    i see your point but i dont think it should be too much of a problem since he is starting the reversitol in week 3. Monster, maybe lower it to 2 caps in week 3....or just lower the torem to 30mg in week 3.....? PCS would be a good choice too, or sustain alpha

    i dont know the exact percent decrease in E2 levels, however they seemed to be signifigant enough to be listed.

    so if you opt Reversitol just do 2 caps inbetween your doses of Torem.

    ill look up the study again to see.
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    i get a lose of libido in just about any pct and i always thought it was from the serm, i mean its a med designed for women....
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    didnt find it yet but came across this....

    Effect of anti-estrogens on the androgen receptor activity and cell proliferation in prostate cancer cells.
    [My paper] Hidenori Kawashima, Tomoaki Tanaka, Jed-Sian Cheng, Syozo Sugita, Kazuyoshi Ezaki, Takeshi Kurisu, Tatsuya Nakatani
    Department of Urology, Osaka City University Graduate School of Medicine, 1-4-3 Asahimachi, Abenoku, Osaka 545-8585, Japan. hidenori@msic.med.osaka-cu.ac.jp
    Although some anti-estrogens have been reported to inhibit the proliferation of prostate cancer cells, few studies on the mechanism by which they suppress the growth of prostate cancer have been reported. We investigated, for the first time, whether anti-estrogens modulate the transactivation activity of the androgen receptor (AR) in prostate cancer cells. In DU-145 cells transfected with AR, the transactivation activity of AR was inhibited by tamoxifen and toremifene, even in the presence of 10 nM of DHT. On the other hand, in LNCaP cells having an endogenous AR mutation at codon 877, the activity of AR was suppressed by faslodex in the presence of 10 nM DHT, whereas it was not inhibited by tamoxifen nor toremifene. In PC-3 cells, both the cell growth and the AR activity were remarkably inhibited by tamoxifen at 50 microM. Faslodex and toremifene inhibited AR activity to some extent, but they seemed to function as agonists at higher concentrations. In PC-3 cells, the inhibition of cell growth by flutamide, faslodex and toremifene was much less than their suppression of AR activity. We also demonstrated that a synthetic estrogen diethylstilbestrol and progesterone-related drugs such as chlormadinone acetate and allylestrenol dose-dependently inhibited the activity of AR in DU-145 and PC-3 cells. These results highlight the anti-androgenic aspect of anti-estrogens and estrogens in regard to the AR-mediated transcription of the relevant genes in prostate cancer.
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    Hormonal effects of toremifene in breast cancer patients.
    Számel I, Vincze B, Hindy I, Kerpel-Fronius S, Eckhardt S, Mäenpää J, Grönroos M, Kangas L, Sundquist H, Hajba A.

    National Institute of Oncology, Budapest, Hungary.

    The effect of toremifene treatment on the serum levels of sex steroids (estradiol, progesterone, testosterone), FSH, LH, prolactin, TSH, T3, T4 and SHBG was investigated. Basal prolactin level and the "prolactin reserve capacity" of the hypophysis was also studied by the TRH functional test. Steroid hormone receptors were detected in the patients where a tumor biopsy could be obtained. In a randomized trial patients were treated by 60 and 300 mg of toremifene per os, daily. Hormone levels were assayed prior to treatment and at the 2nd, 6th, 8th and 12th week of tormifene therapy. The hormonal effects of toremifene were the most marked at the 2nd and at the 8th week. Estradiol decreased continuously, SHBG increased slightly and the high initial value of basal prolactin level decreased. The TRH-induced prolactin release was suppressed by tormifene after an 8-week period. No clinical response-related tendency was found.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    I have alot more stength to gain which makes me believe i'm not close to a strength wall...thus meaning I have alot more size to put on.

    I'm only putting up 85's dumbell press for 12...and squatting 315 on smith machine...I mean I should be able to do alot more before I'm maxing out my genetic potential. Theres tons of smaller guys that are WAY stronger than me...my size is way ahead of my stength. This leads me to believe that I have much more room to grow and thus any PH/Steroid should work out well.

    I don't believe in the consecutive cycles reduces gains...this only should happen if you run long cycles without proper time period to allow testosterone to return. Short, lightly suppressive cycles shouldn't hinder gains. However, when you have reached your genetic limit and are using steroids to surpass that, then certainly the gains will have diminishing returns.


    Anyhow:

    Shoulder workout went great today. The last reps really really burn because I'm used to being on creatine. Can't wait for this crap to kick in!

    In my opinion get rid of the Smith machine Squat. For someone as serious as you..should be squating free weight. Try Squating twice a week. 20 rep day and a 10-6 rep day. That will help pack and the pounds and strength.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    i wouldnt use torem with reversitol

    Reason:

    Torem has been shown in a few studies to lower E2. Basically this means, as well as it works as a SERM it has AI properties.

    So adding Reverstiol in the mix may lower E2 even lower and inhibit libido.

    my suggestion is to Run PCS or another test booster with NO AI in it along side the Torem

    I want to avoid estrogen rebound...which is my reason of running reversitol. It also contains the main ingrediant of PCS, tran-resveratrol and tongkat-ali which will help with boosting natural test. I have had great results with it at 3 caps/day = increase in libido.

    I really like the fact that torem also lowers E2, I do not think it will act against me because I am starting the Reversitol against a ramped down dosage of Toremifene.

    3caps + 60mg of toremifene probably wont cause to much estrogen suppression...well see
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    how much ai in reversitol? did they say the exact amount of each?
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    I agree with nateo...your a serious lifter scratch the smith machine and use free weights learn to squat ass to the floor and the weight will come...there are many leg workouts where this is all i do!
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    subbed.........

    good luck man. I'll be closely watching. Can't wait for my PPlex & SDrol bridge!
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    I want to avoid estrogen rebound...which is my reason of running reversitol. It also contains the main ingrediant of PCS, tran-resveratrol and tongkat-ali which will help with boosting natural test. I have had great results with it at 3 caps/day = increase in libido.

    I really like the fact that torem also lowers E2, I do not think it will act against me because I am starting the Reversitol against a ramped down dosage of Toremifene.

    3caps + 60mg of toremifene probably wont cause to much estrogen suppression...well see

    i think youll avoid estrogen rebound just by tapering the dose of torem,

    or start with 1 cap reversitol on week 4 of torem then when your done with torem just do 2 caps per day for a week or 2 then 1 cap then be over.
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    hey buddy, im not too knowledgable on reversitol, but i hear some bad things about it. would that be a guaranteed way to avoid the rebound more so than a serm and natty test. booster such as stoked or dth?
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    natty test booster just helps raise test...an AI is needed to eliminate any free-floating estrogen thats been blocked by the SERM when coming off the SERM
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    great, thanks for the info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    Just started by New Year Bulk. Its been 90 days since my 3wk Havoc run. Ready to hit it hard with P-Plex.


    Before Pictures:
    Right After Havoc...most current front shot..I look pretty much the same, maybe a little more muscular in my shoulders


    Current Back Shot


    your left arm and delt look alittle larger than your right. im not trying to point out a negative man, just thought id put it out there. looking good though
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    I am subbing to this. I am very interested in your thoughts on P-Plex. I have started my 5 week bridge/stack this week. I started Xtreme Tren on Monday and will be adding P-Plex on next Monday. Best of luck with the compound.
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    dude my whole left side is bigger...I don't know why, its not any stronger...I guess because I'm left dominant. Its mainly my bicep/tricep. Left side is 1/2inch larger. Pecs/traps are pretty much the same though
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    Day 3


    Upped dosage to 30mg. Took 10mg waking up and 20mg at 3:00pm.

    Nothing new to report. Maybe a tiny bit of anxiety which I believe is just anticipation/guilt. The tiny bit of guilt you have knowing that your putting your body through something and there could be consquences lol
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    Yo good luck w it M-Box.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    dude my whole left side is bigger...I don't know why, its not any stronger...I guess because I'm left dominant. Its mainly my bicep/tricep. Left side is 1/2inch larger. Pecs/traps are pretty much the same though
    don't sweat it i got the same issue with my right side. maybe your other side will catch up on this
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup View Post
    don't sweat it i got the same issue with my right side. maybe your other side will catch up on this

    haha it used to be really bad...its not as noticeable anymore, people used to call my quasimoto
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    Quote Originally Posted by crowpass View Post
    hey buddy, im not too knowledgable on reversitol, but i hear some bad things about it. would that be a guaranteed way to avoid the rebound more so than a serm and natty test. booster such as stoked or dth?
    im curious.
    what have you heard bad about reversitol? Ive only heard good and i think i need to try it sometime, looks like a good product. I would like to see more products similiar to it.
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    Q for you guys who have ran phera before.

    Will I have pumps like havoc or creatine? I know they couldn't be here yet as it hasn't kicked in yet, but from logs I've read, people are saying phera doesn't bring a good pump, just strength and bloat. pump is my favorite thing of all time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    Q for you guys who have ran phera before.

    Will I have pumps like havoc or creatine? I know they couldn't be here yet as it hasn't kicked in yet, but from logs I've read, people are saying phera doesn't bring a good pump, just strength and bloat. pump is my favorite thing of all time.
    That is part of the reason I started Tren first. Folks say Tren kicks in quick and I can confirm that on day 4. Supposedly it takes til mid week 2 before P-Plex gives you the "ON" feeling.
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    Phera gave me better pumps.
    Mostly answered PM's
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    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot
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    i had mad pumps on phera but it's not a Nos kind of pump it's difficult to explain
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    following. good luck looks like you have your stuff in check for the most part
    - Join Me: Tex89 M-Sten RX Log... Dicing that iron -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/222790-tex89s-msten-rx.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup View Post
    i had mad pumps on phera but it's not a Nos kind of pump it's difficult to explain

    well i'm just remembering how after a workout on havoc, id walk around the rest of the day completely jacked up. Like almost perpetual pump until I fell asleep. I hope phera brings the pump.
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    it should.
    i would question the stuff if you dont get some sick pumps with phera.
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