Questions about Designer Steroids?
- 12-24-2008, 08:40 AM
Questions about Designer Steroids?
First off all, I decided to cut my comment from someone else's thread in hopes that it will get answered properly. So here is what I posted in another thread. I truly appreciate any help.
I'm new to this forum but not to bb and the world of anabolics. My question is this, I'm constantly hearing a great deal of feedback about the Superdrol clones, RPN Havoc, PP clones, and Halodrol clones and perhaps things like Trenadrol. I have been on TRT for a few years now and of course I cycle in between as well. I'm more partial to injects over orals, except for the fact that I really enjoy running Var and Proviron sure has been a godsend for me, as it controls any estro-related sides and it shoots my libido through the roof. Anyways, I'm currently finishing up a long cycle in which I used various compounds throughout. I'm now on my last week and the compounds that I'm currently finishing up are this:
TestSuspension@500mgs per week
BTW, my stats are 6.0, 235, 13.5%BF, 35years old.
I just wanted to try out something new and see what all the rave is about with these Designer compounds. I know very little about Designer Steroids and the last PH that I used was back in 2002 which was Ergopharm's 1-AD. I will be tapering back into my TRT which consits of Test@200wk and Deca@100wk (primarily for joints). I plan on staying on TRT for atleast 12 weeks to give myself a break from cycling. With that being said, I wont touch anything that is methalyated (spelling?) for atleast 6 weeks due to the Dianabol use but I was thinking that after 6 weeks if my liver values check out good. I was considering trying RPN's Havoc with the TRT doses that I mentioned above or perhaps doing a bridge type thing you guys had suggested for another with a h-drol clone. I'm not sure if I really want to mess with Superdrol because I have had friends who complained about lethargy and bad cramps, they say even worse than Dbol pumps, not to mention it is pretty damn toxic. Does anyone have any advice as far as what I should try in reference to these Designers? I really appreciate the help and I apoligise for the novel that I just wrote. BTW, it looks like there are some very knowledgeable people in regards to these compounds. I appreciate the help and thanks in advance.
- 12-24-2008, 08:41 AM
This is also a second question that I cut from that same thread. Thanks fellas!
I have just one more question. For those of you that have used oral AAS such as Winny, Dbol, Anavar, OT, Anadrol, etc...how or can you compare the compounds these compounds to the proven anabolics that have been around for quite some time. For instance, if possible how would/could you compare and what would you compare these too. The reason that I ask is that when it comes to Desinger Steroids I have no experience and I have only read reviews which I really don't know if they are true or biased or what??? Anyways:
(1) Superdrol-what could you compare it to in terms of gains?
(2) H-drol clones " "?
(3) PPlex clones " "?
(4) RPN Havoc" "?
(5) Trenadrol " "?
If this is an unfair question, I totally understand. I'm just trying to get real feedback from actual people and not just stuff I read. I truly hate to waste money on things if they are not tried and proven. I hope you guys understand where I'm coming from, I'm just trying to gain a better perspective as far as these compounds are concerned and by comparing them to things that I've tried I will be able to gain a well-rounded perspective. Thanks again fellas!
- 12-24-2008, 01:31 PM
12-24-2008, 02:34 PM
im the same as you man, long term user who recently discovered DS. all i can say is stay away.
phera is nothing like dbol.
SD is something like anadrol but with much more glycogen storage than water.
halo was similar to turinabol but i still prefer tbol.
the tren PH do not convert to trenbolone,
havov, well.. i used epistane, made my joints hurt from day 4 and i would say is somewhat similar to var. hardly any weight gain but slight strength and bf reduction.
12-24-2008, 02:39 PM
DS's are great for those people including me who like to stay legal for the time being, dont have a lot of money, and arent looking for crazy gains. I've done a couple Test cycles years back and DS dont even compare to those, but for 30 bucks and some support supps (plus your SERM), how can you go wrong.
Remember why you started.
12-24-2008, 05:56 PM
12-24-2008, 07:46 PM
So Neph, it seems like the Havoc produced okay gains for the price but it seems to have that Winny effect , meaning that it drys you out and makes you feel like you have the joints of an 80 year-old? The SD from what I've heard is more liver toxic than DBOl and sme users complain of lethargy and loss of libido.
12-24-2008, 07:51 PM
12-24-2008, 07:53 PM
12-24-2008, 08:04 PM
Remember why you started.
12-24-2008, 08:33 PM
Yeah, I'm lucky my wife of 13 years actually pins the areas that I cant reach. Perhaps you can educate her about the proper use of AAS and let her know that injectables place less strain on the body than do oral AAS and DS. You know like you mentioned for 30 bucks you cant go wrong and I will be tapering back into TRT starting next week and after a while I may decide to run a moderate dose of Havoc and/or H-drol because its cheap and different compounds affect people in different ways and the Havoc may help harden my psyique up some and for 34.95 its not much of a money gamble, it will either work or not.
12-24-2008, 09:14 PM
12-24-2008, 10:06 PM
If you ask me, DS are kinda like "trainning grounds" if you may.
Back where I come from there aren't many PHs or DSs at all... If you're talking mild you're talking winstrol. And deca is a normal thing for people to run. And all of that without much if any medical support.
If you have DS at least you have a lot of "newbies" to the steroids thing that want to start trying it, and it works almost as a stepping stone. You may try it and see how you handle fully commiting to your bodybuilding goals, if you can run a cycle well, handle your PCT, stay away from booze, get the diet and trainning you need, etc. It is a "mild" way to get into this world, after your first try you know if you were cut out for that or not.
And believe it or not, its a safer way to do it. In Brazil, prescription drugs can pretty much be sold to anyone, meaning, if I walk in a pharmacy and write down on a piece of paper a deca order, they'll give it to me. No questions asked, and there I stand, with a huuuge product in my hands that I'd probably run without having any idea of what goes along with it. Having DSs at least eases up those problems as people have that milder tryout that has a lot less chances of screwing them up for life.
But then again, they are no where near as powerfull, dangerous, effective, or anything like the real thing. But they work well for a lot of people, like myself. I run my ocasional DSs with everything that goes along with it, but I don't want to go near the real stuff as I'm not in that stage, at least not for some time.
Just my thoughts. Feel free to flame away as I'm sure a lot of people will not go along with a lot I had to say.
12-24-2008, 10:58 PM
Excellent insight. On the contrary though, many people who at least have the internet seem to have a better idea of what all is involved to run a cycle, including PCT and support supps. It's almost overkill. I started out with Test years ago, and like most others (and most on here, whether you admit to it or not) I didnt do any research or anything as to what I was doing. Just took my friends word for and started shooting. Needless to say after a few failed cycles, I "learned" what its all about. I agree that doing designer steroids are like driving a car that only turns left. You get half the possibilites out there. Ultimately Testosterone should be the foundation for every cycle, but most people have their reasons why not to use it, whether it be cost, pinning, whatever. We'll see how this "fad" rolls out in another year or two.
Remember why you started.
12-25-2008, 08:45 AM
I apprieciate the quest for more knowledge mj, alot of people like to stay close minded its better for you to at least gain knowledge on the designers and decide from there rather than shut them out completely.
I have done illegal gear and these legal otc's and i dont agree with some statements made here. First of all they are on par with the illegal counterparts imo, of course you will have strong compounds and more milder ones, same as gear(controlled). Second, some are harsher and more risky health wise than gear. I dont think that they are stepping stones at all. Steroids are steroids whether they are controlled or otc. Alot of people cant or dont want to get real gear, its easier to go to a bb website and buy some havoc, pheraplex etc than to find underground sources or get a dr. script. If you take away the legality and the labels then OTC designers would fall right next to the older brothers, it would just come down to personal preferance as to what compounds you wanted to run.
I have not tried halodrol/hdrol compound yet but if you like anavar then i would say havoc/epidrol/epistane etc would be more to your liking. It may seem very mild for someone experienced as yourself but it should give you benefiets of hardness, increased vascularity, nice strength gains, with no sides. 60mg was my strong dose that made me feel "on" but you should work up to that dose as the weeks go on. Ive heard alot of vets say PPlex is like dbol and i havent used dbol but from what i have read they are similiar. Superdrol will generally make you feel sick at higher doses alot like anadrol, the two are very closely related chemically speaking with superdrol being drier. Hdrol is a modified Tbol.
12-25-2008, 10:12 AM
I used some d-s in two cycles. First it was Mega TRN with Mega H and Mega Zol, all from Generic Labz. The target was to burn fat and ad some dry meat, and the gear fulfilled the task
in february 2008 I tried M Drol (Competetive Edge Labs Superdrol clone) nad GL Epithin E. The target was dry muscle mass and again gear did what I wanted it to do . obut 15lbs of totally pure muscle mass.
So if you want my opinion on DS I say "yes, I like it". You won`t gain +20lbs, becouse you don`t make 12 week cycles on prohormones. But If you want a couple of pounds of dry mass S Drol+epi is the best choice.
Now I plan a ccle with test propionate, epithin e and oxanabolon/oxanavar.
12-25-2008, 11:26 PM
I appreciate the feedback on these compounds. I agree with you in that, they are all classified as steroids and some are stronger than others, alot of times the stronger ones come with more sides and you have to make sure you have your BP in check and take supplements to help prevent any future problems from occurring. You mentioned Havoc being similiar to Anavar, that is basically what I'm looking for. I can get Anavar, but damn it is so pricey and for me to run a good cycle, the Var alone will cost over 300 bucks. So, I think I will give the Havoc a shot while I'm on TRT. What I really like about Anavar is the strength gains. In fact, I truly believe that I get stronger off of Anavar than with Dbol. This compound is so mild, bet yet effective, it wont put much muscle mass on you, but what it does put on will be quality muscle that is really easy to keep. Another benefit is that when I run Anavar, I hardly ever get colds, not everyone responds this one but for some reason it helps me. In addition, after I quit a run with anavar I can still feel similiar strength gains sometimes even months later. I laugh when people say its a chick steroid, you use it in the proper doses and run it long enough with Test as a base and whatever other compounds and you will get great strength results and if your diet is spot on, you will really lean up a great deal.
I like to have an open mind about things and what works for one, may not work for another so that is why I'm willing to try out a 6 week run with Havoc and maybe H-drol. These compounds do go off the market pretty quick so that says one thing about them and that is they are anabolics and obviously they are working for some. As you mentioned above, Dbol is great for throwing on size and strength quick, in fact, 2-4 pound gains a week are pretty common with this compound. The 2 things that I hate about Dbol is the bloat and acne. I have never had to use an AI until I took Dbol; however; I no longer have access to Proviron which IMO is truly a godsend as it helps control bloat and sky rockets your libido into overdrive. The Superdol compound that I hear many talk about seems rather harsh and you comparison to Anadrol seems spot on. This is one I will probably avoid as I'm not a big fan on Anadrol because it wipes my appetite out and jacks up my BP. I'm imagining that the dry gains that Superdrol produces is because of the fact that it is structurally similiar to Masteron, which is a wonderful compound that has no real sides other than acne for me and I get that hard as nails look as long as BF is relatively low. I hear alot of people say dont use Mast unless your under 10%, that is bull**** IMO as I benfited during a bulker and I was at 15% at the time because of the weight I was throwing on and the compounds that I was using. Oil based Test Suspension is by far my favorite compouns, nothing makes me leaner, stronger, veiny, and aggressive in the gym and the gains are off the hook. The only bad thing is ED injects and they kind of feel like bee stings so I cut it with Deca to take some of the bite out. Anyways, I truly appreciate the feedback PP, thanks again for giving me insight into the world of DS!
12-25-2008, 11:49 PM
12-26-2008, 03:02 AM
MJ, Spot on buddy with your questions,
the last time i checked in any forum was Dec. 2006, and now i return i and i found out that world has changed,
all are discussing DS, been trying for the last week or so to read as much as i can in order to familiarize my self with the new era if i may.
but i gess thanks to you and to the great people who responded to your thread, things started to clear out a bit,
BTW from skimming around one of the DS that read some positive feedback on was dienedrone, there are few logs and final results on it, worth checking.
12-26-2008, 03:39 AM
One more qustion, apologies MJ dont mean to highjack your thread but its related.
I know that Andriol, the Test decanoate caps didnt score big in BB arena due to its high price/cost to run a decent cycle,
Can you compare the results of Andriol to any of the DS , and do you think DS will be banned ??
12-26-2008, 05:09 AM
As you probably know Androil was created as a replacement for the harsh oral Methyltestosterone which was bad on the liver, lipid profile and had to be used in relativley high doses to get good results. Androil is also an option for those who aren't up to the injecting of Test E/C, prop, suspension. I have never taken it personally, but from friends I have heard that it isn't bad at all on BP and in some cases it may even help lower it, which is kind of weird; furthermore it's not very harsh on the liver either. Androil tends to be costly and you have to take 10+ caps, so each cap is 40mgs so the average dose is 400-600mgs per week. It has the same anabolic/androgenic ratio as other tests and I have talked to some who got pretty decent results, it was taking all of the pills they said that was a hassle. This is proably one of the main reasons along with cost as you mentioned that it didn't fare well in the word of BB.
As far as my knowledge goes with DS, I'm learning about them because some of the results that people have posted on several of the boards has defintly peaked my curiosity and even though my base consists primarily of the older AAS, I still want to learn about the DS and give a couple of them a shot. I dont like to write anything off as bad and so I gain all the knowledge I can prior to taking any compound and I weigh the benefits to sides ratio and make my decison from there. As far as the DS goes, I'm sure these guys who have run cycles may be able to elaborate better than I could. However, if I had to specualte I would defintly say it is a compound that is very structurally similiar to Test. Things that come to mind may be MIT (which is very harsh on you) and 1-Testosterone which may be similiar to Tren in strength; however it is injectable. I'm not to sure on this one, say hopefully someone can chime in here and compare Androil with a DS that produces similiar results. I just would imagine that since it is Test; the DS incorporated would be one that mimics and is structurally similiar to the results of Test.
12-26-2008, 05:16 AM
12-26-2008, 05:48 AM
12-26-2008, 06:12 AM
12-26-2008, 06:16 AM
do you notice any spot growth with the suspension injects? i hear alot of argument on the subject but i wouldnt really know. the other advantage with oil based i heard is because you can do 1 inj ED as apposed to water based they say its better to do 2 inj ED.... the oil prolongs the life just a little longer.
12-26-2008, 06:31 AM
For example, I took Var 3 times a day once and then just 1 time before workout and I got the same damn gains.
12-26-2008, 01:47 PM
Cant agree more MJ, Test is King, Im trying to do the same whiegh benefits and sides ratio on DS before deciding what to use cause i have access to Andriol & test E anytime, and was trying to see if its better to do mini cycles with DS or a 12 weeker using Test E, donno yet maybe i'll try at least a DS cycle and maybe post results as well.
I've tried Anavar once and loved it.
Ley us know how it goes with DS if you decided to follow this path.
12-26-2008, 01:53 PM
12-26-2008, 03:00 PM
yo mj i have a question.. u say u love anavar.... well i am currently planning a future cycle.. of either test e or test p.. but i wanted to throw in some anavar.. if i go with test e.. would 5-6 weeks of anavar 40-60mg a day to jump it be advisable or do u feel it is better to throw in the anavar at the end of the cycle to harden me up and reduce some of the water weight.. so i end the cycle in great form. I was thinking if i ended my cycle with anavar i could run it the two weeks after my last shot of test e also.. so i could continue making quality gains right up to pct... example:
test e- weeks 1-10
anavar- weeks 7-12
does that look good.. or would u jump start the cycle with the var just to get things going..
how do u like enanthate compared to propionate?
12-26-2008, 03:04 PM
also id like to throw my 2 cents in here about the designers.. most of these mild designer steroids that u read about on these boards with ppl making great gains off them.. it is usually people under 200lbs with minimal training expierence(<10yrs).. sure u can prob make some gains with them.. but the thing is most ppl are using the desingers to get there feet wet,, kind of a way to break into the world of steroids.. with the cycle expeirence u have honestly i dont think these compounds will work as well as they would on most of these ppl who have only done one or two cyles and are under 200lbs! just my 2 cents.. flame away
12-26-2008, 04:06 PM
I prefer longer cycles because for me I'm able to sustain my gains better. You could kickstart it with one of the DS and you will know if it is working for you because Test E doesn't kick in for about 4 weeks. 12 weeks is a decent run with test and I know that you guys that do PCT, will have a harder time recovering if you run cycles like I do, which consist of 16-20 weeks.
Yeah, I will be trying Havoc and H-drol, probably one at a time during my TRT phase so I can see individually how they work.
12-26-2008, 04:20 PM
Test@500 (u didnt mention the dose) weeks:1-10
Then of course PCT 2 weeks after your last injection.
I really dont think Prop has an advantage over Test E, the only thing that is better is that it get in your system much quicker, if you want you can even use a dose of 50mgs EOD to help kick it in if your impatient and want results, but it isn't neccessary or you could run it all the way throughout but this is going to require more pinning and I dont know how much experience you have with pinning so it may become a real chore for you bro. On a side note, once I started using around 60mgs a day of var, I noticed much better results in terms of both strength gains and lean muscle gains. Good luck and let us know what you decide. If you have anymore questions please feel free to ask away and I will do my best to provide you with the answer that you need.
12-26-2008, 04:23 PM
12-26-2008, 04:31 PM
Good insight, I know a lot of AAS users and they swear by SD and MIT. However, those 2 can be some nasty compounds in terms of sides though. I may try a bottle here and there just to see what it does, hell when I do a pretty moderate dose of anabolics I only expect to gain a few pounds. The more cycles that I do, often makes gains come slower and that is why I like to switch up compounds frequently. I did that with this current cycle and I gained 15 pounds, so I'm pretty happy with that. It took me forever to break 215.
12-27-2008, 07:33 AM
12-27-2008, 12:23 PM
12-27-2008, 05:02 PM
12-27-2008, 05:07 PM
12-27-2008, 06:38 PM
tren will get you past 230.. but if your staying around 220 off cycle thats most likely what you will always hold. i used to get stuck around 215 and then i started blasting + cruising, now im sitting at 267 with about 10 of that being water from some deca.
12-27-2008, 06:47 PM
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