Questions about Designer Steroids?

[mj34]

First off all, I decided to cut my comment from someone else's thread in hopes that it will get answered properly. So here is what I posted in another thread. I truly appreciate any help.

Hey Guys,
I'm new to this forum but not to bb and the world of anabolics. My question is this, I'm constantly hearing a great deal of feedback about the Superdrol clones, RPN Havoc, PP clones, and Halodrol clones and perhaps things like Trenadrol. I have been on TRT for a few years now and of course I cycle in between as well. I'm more partial to injects over orals, except for the fact that I really enjoy running Var and Proviron sure has been a godsend for me, as it controls any estro-related sides and it shoots my libido through the roof. Anyways, I'm currently finishing up a long cycle in which I used various compounds throughout. I'm now on my last week and the compounds that I'm currently finishing up are this:

TestSuspension@500mgs per week
Test Cyp@250@week
Deca@400
Dbol@30mgs daily

BTW, my stats are 6.0, 235, 13.5%BF, 35years old.

I just wanted to try out something new and see what all the rave is about with these Designer compounds. I know very little about Designer Steroids and the last PH that I used was back in 2002 which was Ergopharm's 1-AD. I will be tapering back into my TRT which consits of Test@200wk and Deca@100wk (primarily for joints). I plan on staying on TRT for atleast 12 weeks to give myself a break from cycling. With that being said, I wont touch anything that is methalyated (spelling?) for atleast 6 weeks due to the Dianabol use but I was thinking that after 6 weeks if my liver values check out good. I was considering trying RPN's Havoc with the TRT doses that I mentioned above or perhaps doing a bridge type thing you guys had suggested for another with a h-drol clone. I'm not sure if I really want to mess with Superdrol because I have had friends who complained about lethargy and bad cramps, they say even worse than Dbol pumps, not to mention it is pretty damn toxic. Does anyone have any advice as far as what I should try in reference to these Designers? I really appreciate the help and I apoligise for the novel that I just wrote. BTW, it looks like there are some very knowledgeable people in regards to these compounds. I appreciate the help and thanks in advance.
MJ34

 

[mj34]

This is also a second question that I cut from that same thread. Thanks fellas!

I have just one more question. For those of you that have used oral AAS such as Winny, Dbol, Anavar, OT, Anadrol, etc...how or can you compare the compounds these compounds to the proven anabolics that have been around for quite some time. For instance, if possible how would/could you compare and what would you compare these too. The reason that I ask is that when it comes to Desinger Steroids I have no experience and I have only read reviews which I really don't know if they are true or biased or what??? Anyways:
(1) Superdrol-what could you compare it to in terms of gains?
(2) H-drol clones " "?
(3) PPlex clones " "?
(4) RPN Havoc" "?
(5) Trenadrol " "?

If this is an unfair question, I totally understand. I'm just trying to get real feedback from actual people and not just stuff I read. I truly hate to waste money on things if they are not tried and proven. I hope you guys understand where I'm coming from, I'm just trying to gain a better perspective as far as these compounds are concerned and by comparing them to things that I've tried I will be able to gain a well-rounded perspective. Thanks again fellas!
MJ34

 

[mj34]

This is also a second question that I cut from that same thread. Thanks fellas!

I have just one more question. For those of you that have used oral AAS such as Winny, Dbol, Anavar, OT, Anadrol, etc...how or can you compare the compounds these compounds to the proven anabolics that have been around for quite some time. For instance, if possible how would/could you compare and what would you compare these too. The reason that I ask is that when it comes to Desinger Steroids I have no experience and I have only read reviews which I really don't know if they are true or biased or what??? Anyways:
(1) Superdrol-what could you compare it to in terms of gains?
(2) H-drol clones " "?
(3) PPlex clones " "?
(4) RPN Havoc" "?
(5) Trenadrol " "?

If this is an unfair question, I totally understand. I'm just trying to get real feedback from actual people and not just stuff I read. I truly hate to waste money on things if they are not tried and proven. I hope you guys understand where I'm coming from, I'm just trying to gain a better perspective as far as these compounds are concerned and by comparing them to things that I've tried I will be able to gain a well-rounded perspective. Thanks again fellas!
MJ34

BUMP

 

[nephilim666]

im the same as you man, long term user who recently discovered DS. all i can say is stay away.

phera is nothing like dbol.

SD is something like anadrol but with much more glycogen storage than water.

halo was similar to turinabol but i still prefer tbol.

the tren PH do not convert to trenbolone,

havov, well.. i used epistane, made my joints hurt from day 4 and i would say is somewhat similar to var. hardly any weight gain but slight strength and bf reduction.

 

[thegodfather]

DS's are great for those people including me who like to stay legal for the time being, dont have a lot of money, and arent looking for crazy gains. I've done a couple Test cycles years back and DS dont even compare to those, but for 30 bucks and some support supps (plus your SERM), how can you go wrong.

 

[ibanezman08]

nothing compared to the real thing

 

[mj34]

im the same as you man, long term user who recently discovered DS. all i can say is stay away.

phera is nothing like dbol.

SD is something like anadrol but with much more glycogen storage than water.

halo was similar to turinabol but i still prefer tbol.

the tren PH do not convert to trenbolone,

havov, well.. i used epistane, made my joints hurt from day 4 and i would say is somewhat similar to var. hardly any weight gain but slight strength and bf reduction.

Thanks fellas. I was just curious as I wanted to how they work. I honestly prefer to stay away from orals as much as I can, with the exception of Var. However; with all the good sources going down I dont have as many options and for me to run Anavar@60-80mgs per day I would have to spend well over 300 bucks. On the other hand, I can get 20mls of Test E for about 90 bucks, so in reality I dont pay that much for the real deal, its just certain compounds cost more to make so the price gets severly increased.
So Neph, it seems like the Havoc produced okay gains for the price but it seems to have that Winny effect , meaning that it drys you out and makes you feel like you have the joints of an 80 year-old? The SD from what I've heard is more liver toxic than DBOl and sme users complain of lethargy and loss of libido.

 

[mj34]

DS's are great for those people including me who like to stay legal for the time being, dont have a lot of money, and arent looking for crazy gains. I've done a couple Test cycles years back and DS dont even compare to those, but for 30 bucks and some support supps (plus your SERM), how can you go wrong.

I understand where you are coming from bro. It is risky these days and I do appreicate your honesty in saying that these DS dont even compare to good ole Test, in reality though Test will always be king. The thing that makes me leary of the use of these DS is that they do not have the years and conclusive studies that they do with Test and Dbol, anavar etc. It makes sense though because they are relatively new esp in comparison with AAS. I agree for 30 bucks you cant go wrong. The reason that Havoc caught my attention is becvause I have talked to a lot of people who like myself use the old school anabolics and when they go on TRT they run Havoc and H-drol to help out a little. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[mj34]

im the same as you man, long term user who recently discovered DS. all i can say is stay away.

phera is nothing like dbol.

SD is something like anadrol but with much more glycogen storage than water.

halo was similar to turinabol but i still prefer tbol.

the tren PH do not convert to trenbolone,

havov, well.. i used epistane, made my joints hurt from day 4 and i would say is somewhat similar to var. hardly any weight gain but slight strength and bf reduction.

You pretty much summed it up for me here and I'm guessing these DS are somewhat similiar to the Ergopharm 1-AD that I ran back in 2002. I truly appreciate your feedback bro, thanks!

 

[thegodfather]

You pretty much summed it up for me here and I'm guessing these DS are somewhat similiar to the Ergopharm 1-AD that I ran back in 2002. I truly appreciate your feedback bro, thanks!

No problem bro and welcome to the site. The above quote about 1-AD though is wrong. 1-AD is a fairly mild prohormone. These DS are active steroids, and some of them are very potent. M1T would be a better comparison. One of these days I'm going to do another Test cycle, just have to hide it from the miss's.

 

[mj34]

No problem bro and welcome to the site. The above quote about 1-AD though is wrong. 1-AD is a fairly mild prohormone. These DS are active steroids, and some of them are very potent. M1T would be a better comparison. One of these days I'm going to do another Test cycle, just have to hide it from the miss's.

Gotcha, I guess I should have said were the gains possibly similiar to the DS. However, you are right that would be inaccuate to make that connection because these are anabolics and do not need an conversion. I had okay gains from 1-AD actually. Yeah, I have heard about the potency and the toxcicity of MIT. One of my sources about a year ago actually carried it.
Yeah, I'm lucky my wife of 13 years actually pins the areas that I cant reach. Perhaps you can educate her about the proper use of AAS and let her know that injectables place less strain on the body than do oral AAS and DS. You know like you mentioned for 30 bucks you cant go wrong and I will be tapering back into TRT starting next week and after a while I may decide to run a moderate dose of Havoc and/or H-drol because its cheap and different compounds affect people in different ways and the Havoc may help harden my psyique up some and for 34.95 its not much of a money gamble, it will either work or not.

 

[citystreets]

im the same as you man, long term user who recently discovered DS. all i can say is stay away.

phera is nothing like dbol.

SD is something like anadrol but with much more glycogen storage than water.

halo was similar to turinabol but i still prefer tbol.

the tren PH do not convert to trenbolone,

havov, well.. i used epistane, made my joints hurt from day 4 and i would say is somewhat similar to var. hardly any weight gain but slight strength and bf reduction.

why do you like tbol better than hdrol? Ive compared the 2 and hdrol seems better all the way around.. more gains, almost nil side effects?

 

[bla55]

If you ask me, DS are kinda like "trainning grounds" if you may.

Back where I come from there aren't many PHs or DSs at all... If you're talking mild you're talking winstrol. And deca is a normal thing for people to run. And all of that without much if any medical support.

If you have DS at least you have a lot of "newbies" to the steroids thing that want to start trying it, and it works almost as a stepping stone. You may try it and see how you handle fully commiting to your bodybuilding goals, if you can run a cycle well, handle your PCT, stay away from booze, get the diet and trainning you need, etc. It is a "mild" way to get into this world, after your first try you know if you were cut out for that or not.

And believe it or not, its a safer way to do it. In Brazil, prescription drugs can pretty much be sold to anyone, meaning, if I walk in a pharmacy and write down on a piece of paper a deca order, they'll give it to me. No questions asked, and there I stand, with a huuuge product in my hands that I'd probably run without having any idea of what goes along with it. Having DSs at least eases up those problems as people have that milder tryout that has a lot less chances of screwing them up for life.

But then again, they are no where near as powerfull, dangerous, effective, or anything like the real thing. But they work well for a lot of people, like myself. I run my ocasional DSs with everything that goes along with it, but I don't want to go near the real stuff as I'm not in that stage, at least not for some time.

Just my thoughts. Feel free to flame away as I'm sure a lot of people will not go along with a lot I had to say.

 

[thegodfather]

If you ask me, DS are kinda like "trainning grounds" if you may.

Back where I come from there aren't many PHs or DSs at all... If you're talking mild you're talking winstrol. And deca is a normal thing for people to run. And all of that without much if any medical support.

If you have DS at least you have a lot of "newbies" to the steroids thing that want to start trying it, and it works almost as a stepping stone. You may try it and see how you handle fully commiting to your bodybuilding goals, if you can run a cycle well, handle your PCT, stay away from booze, get the diet and trainning you need, etc. It is a "mild" way to get into this world, after your first try you know if you were cut out for that or not.

And believe it or not, its a safer way to do it. In Brazil, prescription drugs can pretty much be sold to anyone, meaning, if I walk in a pharmacy and write down on a piece of paper a deca order, they'll give it to me. No questions asked, and there I stand, with a huuuge product in my hands that I'd probably run without having any idea of what goes along with it. Having DSs at least eases up those problems as people have that milder tryout that has a lot less chances of screwing them up for life.

But then again, they are no where near as powerfull, dangerous, effective, or anything like the real thing. But they work well for a lot of people, like myself. I run my ocasional DSs with everything that goes along with it, but I don't want to go near the real stuff as I'm not in that stage, at least not for some time.

Just my thoughts. Feel free to flame away as I'm sure a lot of people will not go along with a lot I had to say.

Excellent insight. On the contrary though, many people who at least have the internet seem to have a better idea of what all is involved to run a cycle, including PCT and support supps. It's almost overkill. I started out with Test years ago, and like most others (and most on here, whether you admit to it or not) I didnt do any research or anything as to what I was doing. Just took my friends word for and started shooting. Needless to say after a few failed cycles, I "learned" what its all about. I agree that doing designer steroids are like driving a car that only turns left. You get half the possibilites out there. Ultimately Testosterone should be the foundation for every cycle, but most people have their reasons why not to use it, whether it be cost, pinning, whatever. We'll see how this "fad" rolls out in another year or two.

 

[pistonpump]

I apprieciate the quest for more knowledge mj, alot of people like to stay close minded its better for you to at least gain knowledge on the designers and decide from there rather than shut them out completely.

I have done illegal gear and these legal otc's and i dont agree with some statements made here. First of all they are on par with the illegal counterparts imo, of course you will have strong compounds and more milder ones, same as gear(controlled). Second, some are harsher and more risky health wise than gear. I dont think that they are stepping stones at all. Steroids are steroids whether they are controlled or otc. Alot of people cant or dont want to get real gear, its easier to go to a bb website and buy some havoc, pheraplex etc than to find underground sources or get a dr. script. If you take away the legality and the labels then OTC designers would fall right next to the older brothers, it would just come down to personal preferance as to what compounds you wanted to run.

I have not tried halodrol/hdrol compound yet but if you like anavar then i would say havoc/epidrol/epistane etc would be more to your liking. It may seem very mild for someone experienced as yourself but it should give you benefiets of hardness, increased vascularity, nice strength gains, with no sides. 60mg was my strong dose that made me feel "on" but you should work up to that dose as the weeks go on. Ive heard alot of vets say PPlex is like dbol and i havent used dbol but from what i have read they are similiar. Superdrol will generally make you feel sick at higher doses alot like anadrol, the two are very closely related chemically speaking with superdrol being drier. Hdrol is a modified Tbol.

 

[Gunslinger27]

I used some d-s in two cycles. First it was Mega TRN with Mega H and Mega Zol, all from Generic Labz. The target was to burn fat and ad some dry meat, and the gear fulfilled the task

in february 2008 I tried M Drol (Competetive Edge Labs Superdrol clone) nad GL Epithin E. The target was dry muscle mass and again gear did what I wanted it to do . obut 15lbs of totally pure muscle mass.

So if you want my opinion on DS I say "yes, I like it". You won`t gain +20lbs, becouse you don`t make 12 week cycles on prohormones. But If you want a couple of pounds of dry mass S Drol+epi is the best choice.

Now I plan a ccle with test propionate, epithin e and oxanabolon/oxanavar.

 

[mj34]

I apprieciate the quest for more knowledge mj, alot of people like to stay close minded its better for you to at least gain knowledge on the designers and decide from there rather than shut them out completely.

I have done illegal gear and these legal otc's and i dont agree with some statements made here. First of all they are on par with the illegal counterparts imo, of course you will have strong compounds and more milder ones, same as gear(controlled). Second, some are harsher and more risky health wise than gear. I dont think that they are stepping stones at all. Steroids are steroids whether they are controlled or otc. Alot of people cant or dont want to get real gear, its easier to go to a bb website and buy some havoc, pheraplex etc than to find underground sources or get a dr. script. If you take away the legality and the labels then OTC designers would fall right next to the older brothers, it would just come down to personal preferance as to what compounds you wanted to run.

I have not tried halodrol/hdrol compound yet but if you like anavar then i would say havoc/epidrol/epistane etc would be more to your liking. It may seem very mild for someone experienced as yourself but it should give you benefiets of hardness, increased vascularity, nice strength gains, with no sides. 60mg was my strong dose that made me feel "on" but you should work up to that dose as the weeks go on. Ive heard alot of vets say PPlex is like dbol and i havent used dbol but from what i have read they are similiar. Superdrol will generally make you feel sick at higher doses alot like anadrol, the two are very closely related chemically speaking with superdrol being drier. Hdrol is a modified Tbol.

Thanks PP,
I appreciate the feedback on these compounds. I agree with you in that, they are all classified as steroids and some are stronger than others, alot of times the stronger ones come with more sides and you have to make sure you have your BP in check and take supplements to help prevent any future problems from occurring. You mentioned Havoc being similiar to Anavar, that is basically what I'm looking for. I can get Anavar, but damn it is so pricey and for me to run a good cycle, the Var alone will cost over 300 bucks. So, I think I will give the Havoc a shot while I'm on TRT. What I really like about Anavar is the strength gains. In fact, I truly believe that I get stronger off of Anavar than with Dbol. This compound is so mild, bet yet effective, it wont put much muscle mass on you, but what it does put on will be quality muscle that is really easy to keep. Another benefit is that when I run Anavar, I hardly ever get colds, not everyone responds this one but for some reason it helps me. In addition, after I quit a run with anavar I can still feel similiar strength gains sometimes even months later. I laugh when people say its a chick steroid, you use it in the proper doses and run it long enough with Test as a base and whatever other compounds and you will get great strength results and if your diet is spot on, you will really lean up a great deal.
I like to have an open mind about things and what works for one, may not work for another so that is why I'm willing to try out a 6 week run with Havoc and maybe H-drol. These compounds do go off the market pretty quick so that says one thing about them and that is they are anabolics and obviously they are working for some. As you mentioned above, Dbol is great for throwing on size and strength quick, in fact, 2-4 pound gains a week are pretty common with this compound. The 2 things that I hate about Dbol is the bloat and acne. I have never had to use an AI until I took Dbol; however; I no longer have access to Proviron which IMO is truly a godsend as it helps control bloat and sky rockets your libido into overdrive. The Superdol compound that I hear many talk about seems rather harsh and you comparison to Anadrol seems spot on. This is one I will probably avoid as I'm not a big fan on Anadrol because it wipes my appetite out and jacks up my BP. I'm imagining that the dry gains that Superdrol produces is because of the fact that it is structurally similiar to Masteron, which is a wonderful compound that has no real sides other than acne for me and I get that hard as nails look as long as BF is relatively low. I hear alot of people say dont use Mast unless your under 10%, that is bullshit IMO as I benfited during a bulker and I was at 15% at the time because of the weight I was throwing on and the compounds that I was using. Oil based Test Suspension is by far my favorite compouns, nothing makes me leaner, stronger, veiny, and aggressive in the gym and the gains are off the hook. The only bad thing is ED injects and they kind of feel like bee stings so I cut it with Deca to take some of the bite out. Anyways, I truly appreciate the feedback PP, thanks again for giving me insight into the world of DS!:thumbsup:

 

[mj34]

I used some d-s in two cycles. First it was Mega TRN with Mega H and Mega Zol, all from Generic Labz. The target was to burn fat and ad some dry meat, and the gear fulfilled the task

in february 2008 I tried M Drol (Competetive Edge Labs Superdrol clone) nad GL Epithin E. The target was dry muscle mass and again gear did what I wanted it to do . obut 15lbs of totally pure muscle mass.

So if you want my opinion on DS I say "yes, I like it". You won`t gain +20lbs, becouse you don`t make 12 week cycles on prohormones. But If you want a couple of pounds of dry mass S Drol+epi is the best choice.

Now I plan a ccle with test propionate, epithin e and oxanabolon/oxanavar.

That should be a good cutting cycle there, only additon would be Masteron. I'm not sure what is epithin e, is that an epistane clone? Anavar is one of my top 3 compounds, a very great strength compound. Good luck!

 

[Mess]

MJ, Spot on buddy with your questions,
the last time i checked in any forum was Dec. 2006, and now i return i and i found out that world has changed,
all are discussing DS, been trying for the last week or so to read as much as i can in order to familiarize my self with the new era if i may.
but i gess thanks to you and to the great people who responded to your thread, things started to clear out a bit,

BTW from skimming around one of the DS that read some positive feedback on was dienedrone, there are few logs and final results on it, worth checking.
Thank yall
Mess

 

[Mess]

One more qustion, apologies MJ dont mean to highjack your thread but its related.

I know that Andriol, the Test decanoate caps didnt score big in BB arena due to its high price/cost to run a decent cycle,

Can you compare the results of Andriol to any of the DS , and do you think DS will be banned ??

Thanks,Mess

 

[mj34]

One more qustion, apologies MJ dont mean to highjack your thread but its related.

I know that Andriol, the Test decanoate caps didnt score big in BB arena due to its high price/cost to run a decent cycle,

Can you compare the results of Andriol to any of the DS , and do you think DS will be banned ??

Thanks,Mess

Hey Mess,
As you probably know Androil was created as a replacement for the harsh oral Methyltestosterone which was bad on the liver, lipid profile and had to be used in relativley high doses to get good results. Androil is also an option for those who aren't up to the injecting of Test E/C, prop, suspension. I have never taken it personally, but from friends I have heard that it isn't bad at all on BP and in some cases it may even help lower it, which is kind of weird; furthermore it's not very harsh on the liver either. Androil tends to be costly and you have to take 10+ caps, so each cap is 40mgs so the average dose is 400-600mgs per week. It has the same anabolic/androgenic ratio as other tests and I have talked to some who got pretty decent results, it was taking all of the pills they said that was a hassle. This is proably one of the main reasons along with cost as you mentioned that it didn't fare well in the word of BB.
As far as my knowledge goes with DS, I'm learning about them because some of the results that people have posted on several of the boards has defintly peaked my curiosity and even though my base consists primarily of the older AAS, I still want to learn about the DS and give a couple of them a shot. I dont like to write anything off as bad and so I gain all the knowledge I can prior to taking any compound and I weigh the benefits to sides ratio and make my decison from there. As far as the DS goes, I'm sure these guys who have run cycles may be able to elaborate better than I could. However, if I had to specualte I would defintly say it is a compound that is very structurally similiar to Test. Things that come to mind may be MIT (which is very harsh on you) and 1-Testosterone which may be similiar to Tren in strength; however it is injectable. I'm not to sure on this one, say hopefully someone can chime in here and compare Androil with a DS that produces similiar results. I just would imagine that since it is Test; the DS incorporated would be one that mimics and is structurally similiar to the results of Test.

 

[mj34]

One more qustion, apologies MJ dont mean to highjack your thread but its related.

I know that Andriol, the Test decanoate caps didnt score big in BB arena due to its high price/cost to run a decent cycle,

Can you compare the results of Andriol to any of the DS , and do you think DS will be banned ??

Thanks,Mess

Also, the DS are always getting pulled off the market thanks to our wonderful govt. They need to worry about the drugs that are killing people and causing others to kill to get the drugs, it doesn't make much sense but that is politics for you. So yeah, DS and the companies I imagine will continue to find loopholes and chemical alter these compounds and then once the govt. catches on they pull them off the market and it is back to the drawing board for the comapnies that produce DS. I dont even hear much about Meth busts anymore, its all about steroids, its the new witchhunt.

 

[pistonpump]

oil based suspension :twisted: damn i always wanted to try test suspension....

 

[mj34]

oil based suspension :twisted: damn i always wanted to try test suspension....

Man it's really great stuff! ED pinning can be a real pain the ass but other than that the benefits are great. I eat whatever (almost like with Tren) but I dont get the bad sides and I keep getting lean, dense hard muscles and people always come up and say "man you are getting bigger, what are you running", oh I tell them just ah Kreaklynn and NO products as it is none of their business; you gotta watch you ass. However; some people do respond differently to Test Susp. They get bad bloat, HBP and other effects and this just goes to show how different our body's chemistrys really are. For example, plenty of people run EQ at 600-800mgs EW and no problems. I ran it at 600 and like on week 14 my BP got so out of control that I had to see a doc and it took 2 weeks to stabilize it and get it down; that was one of the worst times because with those headaches from the HBP I just couldn't get rid of them. So later on, I tried a run at 400 and bingo no probs! IMO, it's better to start lower and dont try to compare with what thenext guy is doing, as you may not be able to handle what he does, and vice versa. BTW, water based Suspension hurts bad and it clogs the crap out of needles so stick with the oil based. I saw on one website that they had oil based Winny, now that seems like something that I would like to try.

 

[pistonpump]

do you notice any spot growth with the suspension injects? i hear alot of argument on the subject but i wouldnt really know. the other advantage with oil based i heard is because you can do 1 inj ED as apposed to water based they say its better to do 2 inj ED.... the oil prolongs the life just a little longer.

 

[mj34]

do you notice any spot growth with the suspension injects? i hear alot of argument on the subject but i wouldnt really know. the other advantage with oil based i heard is because you can do 1 inj ED as apposed to water based they say its better to do 2 inj ED.... the oil prolongs the life just a little longer.

Such a debatable topic man. I think what it is, is that the area swells for a while giving the appearnce of that but no, I didnt experience no spot grwoth personally and I was pinning 100mgs a day. Yeah, the oil disperses slower and truly 1 inject is all you need. People are crazy injecting twice and a couple of others were pinning it 3 times a day.
For example, I took Var 3 times a day once and then just 1 time before workout and I got the same damn gains.

 

[Mess]

Cant agree more MJ, Test is King, Im trying to do the same whiegh benefits and sides ratio on DS before deciding what to use cause i have access to Andriol & test E anytime, and was trying to see if its better to do mini cycles with DS or a 12 weeker using Test E, donno yet maybe i'll try at least a DS cycle and maybe post results as well.
I've tried Anavar once and loved it.
Ley us know how it goes with DS if you decided to follow this path.

Mess

 

[Mess]

do you notice any spot growth with the suspension injects? i hear alot of argument on the subject but i wouldnt really know. the other advantage with oil based i heard is because you can do 1 inj ED as apposed to water based they say its better to do 2 inj ED.... the oil prolongs the life just a little longer.

OMG :blink:

I gues this is not true cause if it is i should be having J-LO kind of ass if you know what i mean....BIIIIG

Mess

 

[bigzach1234]

yo mj i have a question.. u say u love anavar.... well i am currently planning a future cycle.. of either test e or test p.. but i wanted to throw in some anavar.. if i go with test e.. would 5-6 weeks of anavar 40-60mg a day to jump it be advisable or do u feel it is better to throw in the anavar at the end of the cycle to harden me up and reduce some of the water weight.. so i end the cycle in great form. I was thinking if i ended my cycle with anavar i could run it the two weeks after my last shot of test e also.. so i could continue making quality gains right up to pct... example:
test e- weeks 1-10
anavar- weeks 7-12
pct 12-15
does that look good.. or would u jump start the cycle with the var just to get things going..
how do u like enanthate compared to propionate?

 

[bigzach1234]

also id like to throw my 2 cents in here about the designers.. most of these mild designer steroids that u read about on these boards with ppl making great gains off them.. it is usually people under 200lbs with minimal training expierence(<10yrs).. sure u can prob make some gains with them.. but the thing is most ppl are using the desingers to get there feet wet,, kind of a way to break into the world of steroids.. with the cycle expeirence u have honestly i dont think these compounds will work as well as they would on most of these ppl who have only done one or two cyles and are under 200lbs! just my 2 cents.. flame away

 

[mj34]

Cant agree more MJ, Test is King, Im trying to do the same whiegh benefits and sides ratio on DS before deciding what to use cause i have access to Andriol & test E anytime, and was trying to see if its better to do mini cycles with DS or a 12 weeker using Test E, donno yet maybe i'll try at least a DS cycle and maybe post results as well.
I've tried Anavar once and loved it.
Ley us know how it goes with DS if you decided to follow this path.

Mess

Mess,
I prefer longer cycles because for me I'm able to sustain my gains better. You could kickstart it with one of the DS and you will know if it is working for you because Test E doesn't kick in for about 4 weeks. 12 weeks is a decent run with test and I know that you guys that do PCT, will have a harder time recovering if you run cycles like I do, which consist of 16-20 weeks.
Yeah, I will be trying Havoc and H-drol, probably one at a time during my TRT phase so I can see individually how they work.

 

[mj34]

yo mj i have a question.. u say u love anavar.... well i am currently planning a future cycle.. of either test e or test p.. but i wanted to throw in some anavar.. if i go with test e.. would 5-6 weeks of anavar 40-60mg a day to jump it be advisable or do u feel it is better to throw in the anavar at the end of the cycle to harden me up and reduce some of the water weight.. so i end the cycle in great form. I was thinking if i ended my cycle with anavar i could run it the two weeks after my last shot of test e also.. so i could continue making quality gains right up to pct... example:
test e- weeks 1-10
anavar- weeks 7-12
pct 12-15
does that look good.. or would u jump start the cycle with the var just to get things going..
how do u like enanthate compared to propionate?

I personally believe that Anavar should be run at a minimum of 8 weeks, I prefer 10 weeks or more. There is plenty of profiles indicating that the use of 12 weeks is safe. I even read one study where they were giving Anavar to advanced liver disease patients at 80mgs a day for extended period times, so that pretty much goes to show that while it is methylated it isn't very toxic, anavar is a little more harsh on cholesterol levels if anything, but overall it is by far the safest oral out there as it was originally designed for women and children. I think you will make much better gains if you run it longer, with Anavar it takes some time to see results. I have run it for 14 weeks and had everything checked a few weeks later and it was back to mormal. But at a bare minimum I would do this bro:
Test@500 (u didnt mention the dose) weeks:1-10
Anavar@60mgsED-weeks 1-8
Then of course PCT 2 weeks after your last injection.
I really dont think Prop has an advantage over Test E, the only thing that is better is that it get in your system much quicker, if you want you can even use a dose of 50mgs EOD to help kick it in if your impatient and want results, but it isn't neccessary or you could run it all the way throughout but this is going to require more pinning and I dont know how much experience you have with pinning so it may become a real chore for you bro. On a side note, once I started using around 60mgs a day of var, I noticed much better results in terms of both strength gains and lean muscle gains. Good luck and let us know what you decide. If you have anymore questions please feel free to ask away and I will do my best to provide you with the answer that you need.
Regards,
MJ34

 

[mj34]

Cant agree more MJ, Test is King, Im trying to do the same whiegh benefits and sides ratio on DS before deciding what to use cause i have access to Andriol & test E anytime, and was trying to see if its better to do mini cycles with DS or a 12 weeker using Test E, donno yet maybe i'll try at least a DS cycle and maybe post results as well.
I've tried Anavar once and loved it.
Ley us know how it goes with DS if you decided to follow this path.

Mess

Hey Mess,
The Androil is just so much more expensive than good ole Test E/C. I would run long estered Test because IMO this has been the staple of everything that I do and I think it has contributed most to my overall gains.

 

[mj34]

also id like to throw my 2 cents in here about the designers.. most of these mild designer steroids that u read about on these boards with ppl making great gains off them.. it is usually people under 200lbs with minimal training expierence(<10yrs).. sure u can prob make some gains with them.. but the thing is most ppl are using the desingers to get there feet wet,, kind of a way to break into the world of steroids.. with the cycle expeirence u have honestly i dont think these compounds will work as well as they would on most of these ppl who have only done one or two cyles and are under 200lbs! just my 2 cents.. flame away

If that is you in your avatar, it looks like you extremly ripped and have your diet and cardio spot on bro. The Anavar is just going to enhance this, so you should do great with it.
Good insight, I know a lot of AAS users and they swear by SD and MIT. However, those 2 can be some nasty compounds in terms of sides though. I may try a bottle here and there just to see what it does, hell when I do a pretty moderate dose of anabolics I only expect to gain a few pounds. The more cycles that I do, often makes gains come slower and that is why I like to switch up compounds frequently. I did that with this current cycle and I gained 15 pounds, so I'm pretty happy with that. It took me forever to break 215.

 

[Mess]

Hey Mess,
The Androil is just so much more expensive than good ole Test E/C. I would run long estered Test because IMO this has been the staple of everything that I do and I think it has contributed most to my overall gains.

I totally agree MJ, Andriol never scored on BB, even though i know that but ikeep checking it from time .
Most probably will do Test E 500M@W for 12 weeks i'll kick start it with either Havoc or dienedrone for 4 weeks, Test E make feel Like a king :bb3:

 

[Gunslinger27]

That should be a good cutting cycle there, only additon would be Masteron. I'm not sure what is epithin e, is that an epistane clone? Anavar is one of my top 3 compounds, a very great strength compound. Good luck!

Yes, epithin e is a clone of epistane/havoc. The base of my cycle is testosterone, I add epi to get its anti-estrogen efects. The target is 10-15 lbs of lean&dry muscle mass.

 

[pistonpump]

also id like to throw my 2 cents in here about the designers.. most of these mild designer steroids that u read about on these boards with ppl making great gains off them.. it is usually people under 200lbs with minimal training expierence(<10yrs).. sure u can prob make some gains with them.. but the thing is most ppl are using the desingers to get there feet wet,, kind of a way to break into the world of steroids.. with the cycle expeirence u have honestly i dont think these compounds will work as well as they would on most of these ppl who have only done one or two cyles and are under 200lbs! just my 2 cents.. flame away

first of all im over 200lbs and i agree alot of guys here are under 200 and are making big gains, i however make very small gains but they are gains so i dont complain. same goes for gear, i dont make the big gains there either unless its alot of water. You think superdrol is a get your feet wet mild hormone??? i dont think so its stronger than alot of "real gear". Your statements are really just blanket statements.

 

[pistonpump]

If that is you in your avatar, it looks like you extremly ripped and have your diet and cardio spot on bro. The Anavar is just going to enhance this, so you should do great with it.
Good insight, I know a lot of AAS users and they swear by SD and MIT. However, those 2 can be some nasty compounds in terms of sides though. I may try a bottle here and there just to see what it does, hell when I do a pretty moderate dose of anabolics I only expect to gain a few pounds. The more cycles that I do, often makes gains come slower and that is why I like to switch up compounds frequently. I did that with this current cycle and I gained 15 pounds, so I'm pretty happy with that. It took me forever to break 215.

its been awhile since ive gained 10lbs or more in a cycle, i keep coming down to 215-220 when off and the most ive been was around 230....it gets tough after awhile to break thru. Mj, how do you like tren? I may go that route next big cycle.

 

[nephilim666]

tren will get you past 230.. but if your staying around 220 off cycle thats most likely what you will always hold. i used to get stuck around 215 and then i started blasting + cruising, now im sitting at 267 with about 10 of that being water from some deca.

 

[pistonpump]

tren will get you past 230.. but if your staying around 220 off cycle thats most likely what you will always hold. i used to get stuck around 215 and then i started blasting + cruising, now im sitting at 267 with about 10 of that being water from some deca.

are you saying if i want to stay at a high body weight i would probably have to stay on completely with blasts and cruises? I always drop down no matter what, im sure i could stay at high weight but it would most likely be fat and im looking for lbm.

 

[mj34]

its been awhile since ive gained 10lbs or more in a cycle, i keep coming down to 215-220 when off and the most ive been was around 230....it gets tough after awhile to break thru. Mj, how do you like tren? I may go that route next big cycle.

Yeah, I can run big cycles and if I'm lucky I will gain 10 pounds and like you mentioned I'm running Dbol and I'm gaining water weight like nobody's business and to be honest even with adex the bloat sucks, probably no more dbol for me until I learn to eat better. The longer you cycle the less you are gonna keep gaining its not like your first few cycles. I like to switch up compounds frequently and run long cycles that helps for me. It also helps to be on TRT because I keep so much of what I gain minus all the water of course.
Tren is a love-hate relationship. Strength gains are great, aggression you have to be careful. I dont believe in roid rage but Tren can sure make you edgy esp when u dont get enough sleep and sometimes it is a real BITCH to get enough sleep. I honestly gain more mass with Test and Deca but I do gain muscle and lose fat with Tren and that is what I think makes it so valuable. Test will always be KING and the others that throw on mass are: Deca, Dbol, Anadrol. Tren will harden you up real nice and make you look really vascualr esp if your bodyfat is in the lower range. If you can handle the sides then you are in the clear, so it is best to start low with this strong of a compound. Insomnia, tren cough, aggression, irratibility, cardio gets very hard to do, just to name a few. Not everyone gets these sides but your best bet is to run it low and then bump from there if needed. Also, pinning ED helps keep the blod levels more stable and with Tren and its sides this is sure a plus. I hope this helped you some PP.
Regards,
MJ34

 

[mj34]

first of all im over 200lbs and i agree alot of guys here are under 200 and are making big gains, i however make very small gains but they are gains so i dont complain. same goes for gear, i dont make the big gains there either unless its alot of water. You think superdrol is a get your feet wet mild hormone??? i dont think so its stronger than alot of "real gear". Your statements are really just blanket statements.

Although I have never used DS, I have heard many people say that SD on a mg per mg basis is stronger than DBOL. I have also heard that it has more sides. I may try SD in a cycle so that way I can make a "real" comparison for myself and see what type of gains that I achieve from it!

 

[mj34]

Hey Mess,
The Androil is just so much more expensive than good ole Test E/C. I would run long estered Test because IMO this has been the staple of everything that I do and I think it has contributed most to my overall gains.

Hey Mess,
I just talked to a couple of friends who have ran Androil and they didnt get much out of it just a smaller wallet. I would think that Androil would be a better option for people in their 50's who do not BB but need horomone replacement levels and also those at that age dont want piss around with injects esp. if they dont BB.

 

[nephilim666]

androil is not cost effective, and i found 30mg of SD much stronger than 50mg of dbol. 100mg dbol blows it away tho. if i tried to dose the SD higher than 30 i got some weird sides.

 

[Mess]

androil is not cost effective, and i found 30mg of SD much stronger than 50mg of dbol. 100mg dbol blows it away tho. if i tried to dose the SD higher than 30 i got some weird sides.

I totally agree Guys, I've ran Andriol previously on a diet just to maintain Hard earned muscles from wasteing , I was on 6 caps a day ....
Even though I like to believe that it did the job but it gave me a wierd side...... :toilet: maybe from the oil caps.

Currently im 232 Lbs with around 16-18% BF and triming down, & btw Im 6,1 , my objective is to get down to the 10-12% bf and gain 10-15 lbs of lean dry muscles, therefore im thinking of running a 12 weeker as follow:
W1-W12 Test E @ 500mg/week
W1-W4 dienedrone @ 2 caps a day
W11-W14 Dienedron @ 2 caps a day
Then will start PCT

Im still working on the diet piece to make sure that i drop fat and gain muscle at the same time,

Any inputs, critics would be appreciated.:whip:

 

[bigzach1234]

one more question mj.. all ur help is really appreciated by the way.. how would a short cycle of ten weeks test enanthate 500mg a week stacked with 10 weeks of 60mg a day of anavar sound... i know thats alot of var and pricey, but do u feel these would make a good stack and compliment eachother... cause im thinking the size and bulk from the test mixed with the hardening ability/fatloss/cutting ability of var could work nice together to accentuate the larger muscle groups and bring out alot of definition... im asking because i have a photo shoot in march and i know ppl dont usually like to use test to add definition but if my body fat was already low.... 2 percent higher then in my avatar.. then maybe i could use the test/var combo right up to the shoot...

2nd cycle idea.. prob not going to ever do this .. but hypothetically if i had the money and the expierence how abouit this:
Test enanthate: 600mg/week weeks 1-15
dianabol: 50 mg/day weeks 1-5/6
anavar: 60mg/day weeks 8-15

now i know thats a monster cycle.. and not for a beginer.. but from everything ive read about those compounds.. that could be a real nice cycle.. u gain some nice size and water weight to start.. and u end with less water/bloat and some extra hardness without the use of the harsher wini or masteron

 

[buster0371]

steroids are bad?

 

[mj34]

I totally agree Guys, I've ran Andriol previously on a diet just to maintain Hard earned muscles from wasteing , I was on 6 caps a day ....
Even though I like to believe that it did the job but it gave me a wierd side...... :toilet: maybe from the oil caps.

Currently im 232 Lbs with around 16-18% BF and triming down, & btw Im 6,1 , my objective is to get down to the 10-12% bf and gain 10-15 lbs of lean dry muscles, therefore im thinking of running a 12 weeker as follow:
W1-W12 Test E @ 500mg/week
W1-W4 dienedrone @ 2 caps a day
W11-W14 Dienedron @ 2 caps a day
Then will start PCT

Im still working on the diet piece to make sure that i drop fat and gain muscle at the same time,

Any inputs, critics would be appreciated.:whip:

That looks good Mess. If you have never ran Test before 500mgs EW is a good starting ground. Forgive me of my ignorance of DS but what is Dienedron and yes you also have the PCT timing right. Are you going to run Nolva or Clomid or both. I have also talked to a few people who said that Proviron helps a lot during PCT as well. Good luck and let us know and keep us updated.

 

[mj34]

one more question mj.. all ur help is really appreciated by the way.. how would a short cycle of ten weeks test enanthate 500mg a week stacked with 10 weeks of 60mg a day of anavar sound... i know thats alot of var and pricey, but do u feel these would make a good stack and compliment eachother... cause im thinking the size and bulk from the test mixed with the hardening ability/fatloss/cutting ability of var could work nice together to accentuate the larger muscle groups and bring out alot of definition... im asking because i have a photo shoot in march and i know ppl dont usually like to use test to add definition but if my body fat was already low.... 2 percent higher then in my avatar.. then maybe i could use the test/var combo right up to the shoot...

2nd cycle idea.. prob not going to ever do this .. but hypothetically if i had the money and the expierence how abouit this:
Test enanthate: 600mg/week weeks 1-15
dianabol: 50 mg/day weeks 1-5/6
anavar: 60mg/day weeks 8-15

now i know thats a monster cycle.. and not for a beginer.. but from everything ive read about those compounds.. that could be a real nice cycle.. u gain some nice size and water weight to start.. and u end with less water/bloat and some extra hardness without the use of the harsher wini or masteron

Hey BZ,
Yeah, that looks good bro. Like I mentioned you really get much more out of Anavar when you run it 10-12 weeks as that is best time frame to run. It is a mild compound that produces great strength results, muscle hardness and definition as well as vascualrity and in your case I would defintely except to see that with your low body fat. Yes, the only bad side effect from Anavar is the cost. 60mgs for 10 weeks along side the Test will give you some nice results that I'm sure that you will be happy with. You are exactly right and it sounds like you have done your research on how these compounds work. Test is best for building the mass as you mentioned and the Var will harden you up real nice as well, so you are definitely right regarding your input on this, I couldn't have put it better. I think this would work well for you photo shoot. I'm sure that you already know this but just make sure your diet is spot on, IMO your diet plays a huge role in determining what you results will be. You can use any steroid to cut, in fact some people with good dieting habits even use Dbol to cut because its so anablic and prevents catabolism from setting in and when dieting your not taking in as much calories and Dbol comes in handy because it preserves youre harned earned muscle during calorie deficient phases.
Actually, the second cycle that you mentioned is not really a monster cycle. Uusally people use Test and kickstart it with an oral for a first cycle. But these are some of the beginner cycles that I have seen recommended:

Beginner Bulker Cycle Example 1:
Weeks 1-4: Dianabol, 25-30mgsED
Weeks 1-12: Testosterone Enanthate, 500mgsEW
Weeks 8-12:Winny, 50mgs ED
Then do PCT 2 weeks after last inject

Beginner Bulker 2
Weeks 1-12: Test@ 500mgs
Weeks 1-10: Anavar@ 50mgs ED
PCT- 2weeks after last inject

Once again regarding your choice for a second cycle, it looks like you got some sound advice or you have been doing your homework. The only thing I would add in that Cycle is Proviron because it will really help control estrogen-related sides and keeping bloat down on Test and Dbol is a big issue, esp more so with Dbol. Proviron at 50mgs ED will help immensly and also do wonders for your libido, it is truly a godsend even though it has no anabolic properties it is still worth its weight in gold. However; not everyone responds to Proviron as far as estrogen-related sides go, so it would be wise to keep a bottle of Adex on hand, and if you have to use it start low with .25mgED. As far as the Dbol dose goes I personally never needed 50mgs and 40 has worked fine; however even now I prefer 30mgs. But for the first 6 weeks even at 50mgs that would be fine. 600 of Test is still plenty for a second cycle as it is always better to make gains off of lower doses while you can, even now I prefer doses of 750-1gram of Test per week, anything more it causes more sides and I really dont see anymore gains so I guess you could call that my sweet spot. Going weeks 8-15 on the Var would give you 8 weeks which in this case would be sufficient. Overall, I have tried this cycle and I really liked it the only other addition I had was Deca and I ran it 18 weeks (Test 1-18, Deca1-18, Dbol@30 1-6 and Anavar weeks 8-18). I then tapered back into Trt and I kept everything, that is the awesome advantage of TRT. I gained a solid 20 pounds as well and I felt really strong as hell on cycle. I truly think this isn't too much for a second cycle. After you finish your first cycle, remember time on= time off. I think overall you have it mapped out very well and you sound intelligent about what you are doing and what your goals are. I hope I was able to help you with this post and I know I tend to write alot,lol but if there is anything else that I can try and help you with please lmk. Good luck and let me know what you decide to do.
Regards,
MJ34:thumbsup:

 

[mj34]

steroids are bad?

Are you a troll sir?????????????????????????????