switching from prop to enanthate?

[johnmatrix]

Hi I'm currently on a cycle of test prop and tren ace, and I'm looking to change over to test enanthate so I can prolong the cycle.

I was planning on running just a short cycle for 8 weeks, but now I'm planning to extend it to around 14. I've only got enough prop for the 8 weeks and plus it's much more expensive to me than the enanthate.

I've currently been taking 525mg per week of prop, injecting 150mg every 2 days for the last 4 weeks. What do you think the best way is to make the switch over, while trying to keep levels of test reasonably consistant?

 

[mixedup]

Get on the eth now that way you still have four weeks of prop and when that is over bill be about the time the Eth really starts to kick

 

[heavyiron]

Enanthate spikes rapidly and peaks about 2 days after injection. It then falls off slowly to baseline about 10 days later. If you inject the Enanthate the same day as your last Propionate shot your blood androgen levels will be fine.

One thing you need to keep in mind is the free available hormone in Enanthate is less than Propionate by about 15% because of the ester weight. so a higher dose of Enanthate will be needed to equal the Propionate dose. Therefore you will need about 600mg of Enanthate to equal the free hormone in 525mg of Propionate. in Check out this free equivalent chart;

 

[UniqueJustin]

I'd say go with a Sus,Finaplex, and a nice Primo at the end...call it a day..i did something similar 5 years ago...put on 25 lbs, after a month i kept 21 with Clomids

 

[crazyfool405]

Get on the eth now that way you still have four weeks of prop and when that is over bill be about the time the Eth really starts to kick

this sounds good to me.

 

[holyintellect]

Yeah, the best way to do it would be to start prior to finishing the prop....your blood levels will actually be rising the last week or so while you are still on full doses of prop, and the enanthate is building up, but if you want to avoid any type of blip on the radar, thats probably the best way to do it.

holy

 

[heavyiron]

Here is the science behind my original answer to you. The numbers on the bottom of the chart represent days. The reason it takes 4-5 weeks for testosterone to start working is because it takes time for muscle to be broken down and rebuilt. It has nothing to do with the "test building up in your system" As you can see a heavy ester spikes rapidly within 2 days of injecting it. If you take the E on the last day of your P shot you will be fine.

Pharmacokinetics of Testosterone cypionate Injection
Figure. Pharmacokinetics of 200mg Testosterone cypionate injection. Source: Comparison of Testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of Testosterone enanthate or Testosterone cypionate. Schulte-Beerbuhl M, Nieschlag E. Fertility and Sterility 33 (1980) 201-3.

 

[dan12]

Here is the science behind my original answer to you. The numbers on the bottom of the chart represent days. The reason it takes 4-5 weeks for testosterone to start working is because it takes time for muscle to be broken down and rebuilt. It has nothing to do with the "test building up in your system" As you can see a heavy ester spikes rapidly within 2 days of injecting it. If you take the E on the last day of your P shot you will be fine.

Pharmacokinetics of Testosterone cypionate Injection
Figure. Pharmacokinetics of 200mg Testosterone cypionate injection. Source: Comparison of Testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of Testosterone enanthate or Testosterone cypionate. Schulte-Beerbuhl M, Nieschlag E. Fertility and Sterility 33 (1980) 201-3.

I am not doubting you but why then does prop kick in faster?

 

[crazyfool405]

I am not doubting you but why then does prop kick in faster?

shorter ester.

 

[heavyiron]

I am not doubting you but why then does prop kick in faster?

Define "kick in".

Prop will spike blood androgen levels a little faster than C or E, by about 1 day. The reason guys respond so well to prop is they are pinning frequently so the blood androgen levels are always spiked.
Relook at the chart and imagine pinning C or E every 2-3 days. You will be riding that spike the whole course and therefore have higher stable blood androgen levels. Guys get lazy and pin every 4-7 days so they on average have lower levels, especially in the beginning of the cycle when there is no overlap from previous injections. Pros will pin heavy esters every day to ride the spike.
Secondly, prop has about 15% more hormone because of ester weight and is therfore stronger mg. for mg. than enanthate.
I know countless guys who run prop cycles and will gain weight right away but that is from water and glycogen storing in the muscles. But the real strength gains from prop come around week 4-5 just like enanthate.

Shoot your enanthate Mon, Wed and Fri at 200mg per inject and you will keep blood androgen levels high.

Or if you are really dedicated pin every day=)

 

[mooch2321]

Define "kick in".

Prop will spike blood androgen levels a little faster than C or E, by about 1 day. The reason guys respond so well to prop is they are pinning frequently so the blood androgen levels are always spiked.
Relook at the chart and imagine pinning C or E every 2-3 days. You will be riding that spike the whole course and therefore have higher stable blood androgen levels. Guys get lazy and pin every 4-7 days so they on average have lower levels, especially in the beginning of the cycle when there is no overlap from previous injections. Pros will pin heavy esters every day to ride the spike.
Secondly, prop has about 15% more hormone because of ester weight and is therfore stronger mg. for mg. than enanthate.
I know countless guys who run prop cycles and will gain weight right away but that is from water and glycogen storing in the muscles. But the real strength gains from prop come around week 4-5 just like enanthate.

Shoot your enanthate Mon, Wed and Fri at 200mg per inject and you will keep blood androgen levels high.

Or if you are really dedicated pin every day=)

this is really interesting...your saying if i pin enthanate 100 mgs every day i wont have the 3-4 week lag for it to "kick in"?

 

[heavyiron]

this is really interesting...your saying if i pin enthanate 100 mgs every day i wont have the 3-4 week lag for it to "kick in"?

No,
The op is already in a muscle building state because he has had weeks of muscle fiber damage and rebuilding in an anabolic state so there is no lag in the effect from switching to another ester.
Pinning every day will keep your levels higher daily but you will still need to wait the 3-5 weeks for hypertrophy in the beginning of the cycle because muscle takes time to break down and rebuild. As you know it is not instantanious. Esters are frequently misunderstood. Look at that chart. This is not one of those hypothetical roid calculators, this is an actual blood profile. The first time I saw this I was amazed at the initial spike and I soon lost my interest in short esters.
I have pinned every day, eod, e3d, e4d, e5d, e6d, e7d with heavy esters and have found e3d works well with heavy esters. It is the cross between comfort and performance.
Try every day with enanthate and chart your progress in a diary. Remember you must increase the mg by 15% when comparing with Prop.

btw, sides like acne are low with ed injects.

 

[mooch2321]

coool

 

[johnmatrix]

That's some interesting inforrmation there heavyiron, I didn't know that enanthate would spike after 2 days. In that case then I'll take my 600mg on the same day as my last prop injection.

Before I would have probably thought what the hell and took the enanthate now and just used the prop until it was finished. But now I've got a few cycles behind me I know that I get really bad acne if I venture above say 600 or 700mg/week. So I want to be careful so I don't get above these levels.

I might even give the every day or eod pinning of enanthate a shot, so I can keep levels stable and avoid the sides.

 

[heavyiron]

That's some interesting inforrmation there heavyiron, I didn't know that enanthate would spike after 2 days. In that case then I'll take my 600mg on the same day as my last prop injection.

Before I would have probably thought what the hell and took the enanthate now and just used the prop until it was finished. But now I've got a few cycles behind me I know that I get really bad acne if I venture above say 600 or 700mg/week. So I want to be careful so I don't get above these levels.

I might even give the every day or eod pinning of enanthate a shot, so I can keep levels stable and avoid the sides.

you are welcome,

I think eod would be fine for mitigating sides with a heavy ester. I personally found every 3 days best for comfort and performance but I sometimes forget what day to shoot so I get lazy and pin every Wed./Sat with E or C.

that reminds me, I need to go pin.

 

[bigzach1234]

i always wondered about pinning test e eod... i came across a product that is 200mg test e/50mg test p per mg.. how would one go about administering this.. i dont think a product like that makes all that much sense.. maybe someone else could shed light on how this is effective.

 

[heavyiron]

i always wondered about pinning test e eod... i came across a product that is 200mg test e/50mg test p per mg.. how would one go about administering this.. i dont think a product like that makes all that much sense.. maybe someone else could shed light on how this is effective.

eod would be my preference. The P would spike within 24 hours after inject and the e the next day. Great eod product imho.

 

[KJD12]

Enanthate spikes rapidly and peaks about 2 days after injection. It then falls off slowly to baseline about 10 days later. If you inject the Enanthate the same day as your last Propionate shot your blood androgen levels will be fine.

One thing you need to keep in mind is the free available hormone in Enanthate is less than Propionate by about 15% because of the ester weight. so a higher dose of Enanthate will be needed to equal the Propionate dose. Therefore you will need about 600mg of Enanthate to equal the free hormone in 525mg of Propionate. in Check out this free equivalent chart;

Someone who knows what they are talking about! Since learning this I've always pinned ED. Works a treat with every ester. The only time I move to prop is if I ever come off rather than cruise. I will switch to prop 5 weeks from end of cycle for clearance purposes.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

Someone who knows what they are talking about! Since learning this I've always pinned ED. Works a treat with every ester. The only time I move to prop is if I ever come off rather than cruise. I will switch to prop 5 weeks from end of cycle for clearance purposes.

This post is from 2008. It’s been 14 years brother.

 

[KJD12]

This post is from 2008. It’s been 14 years brother.

Quite right, ooops!

 

[Mikereyn513]

Get on the eth now that way you still have four weeks of prop and when that is over bill be about the time the Eth really starts to kick

This the ester doesn't change the actual compound do if you were doing 500mg of prop then you would do 500mg of enth