[One and Only]

Tyson In his Prime

[bLacKjAck.]

What PI said was so true. The more Tyson let Don King into his life the more it went downhill, Don King made him a celeb instead of a fighter, and Tyson started to really love that and it ruined his career imo.

In his prime --- you watch those fights man, he was just plain nasty, and those records PI listed, I dunno how you could argue they weren't "great" bc they were. They didn't seem it when they fought Tyson in his prime bc he literally MAULED them to the point of it really hurting their career. That is how nasty the kid was.

When I watch ESPN classic and see allllll those fights and see the ones nowadays and compare. It just isn't even close imo. Tyson fought with more adrenaline and intensity, and precision than anyone I have ever seen. Not to mention over hald his fights the guys had like a foot+mad weight on him.

[Jumper]

Originally Posted by Niko

Holmes was way passed his prime when he fought Tyson.
Spinks, a blown up light heavy, lost the fight before he even stepped into the ring with Tyson. This was Tyson at his most devastating.
Razor Ruddock was a one punch fighter. He had a hybrid hook/upper cut punch and that was basically it. A decent chin too.
Botha was never an upper echelon heavyweight. His record was made against tomato cans. He had neither the skills nor the ability to hang with Tyson and yet he was beating Tyson until he walked into a right.
Buster KO'd Tyson. Buster at the peak of his game and Tyson hardly trained for the fight. This was the beginning of the end for him.
Golata is a nut case who up and quit in their fight.

What made Tyson so amazing was not only his skill and attributes but the fact that he was so young. You saw this kid and couldn't help but get excited at the thought of what he could accomplish when he enters into his prime. Unfortunately, he never gave himself the chance to fulfill his potential.

My vote for greatness over the past 25 years goes to Larry Holmes and Holyfield.

You mirror my thoughts. Holmes and Holyfield. I might give the edge to Holyfield, but could go either way.

I think Holyfield exposed Tyson for the skilled bully that he was. Tyson hit Holyfield with everything but the kitchen sink in that first fight. I think it was the 2nd round. Holyfield was unaffected and just kept coming. That is when Tyson looked for a way out and ate ear.

Buster Douglas essentially did the same thing. He took Tyson's best and put him down.

I miss that 70's era with so many great heavyweights. Not only Ali, Frasier, and Foreman. But also, Ken Norton, Jimmy Young, Ernie Shavers. It was a strong class.

[PumpingIron]

Originally Posted by Jumper

You mirror my thoughts. Holmes and Holyfield. I might give the edge to Holyfield, but could go either way.

I think Holyfield exposed Tyson for the skilled bully that he was. Tyson hit Holyfield with everything but the kitchen sink in that first fight. I think it was the 2nd round. Holyfield was unaffected and just kept coming. That is when Tyson looked for a way out and ate ear.

Buster Douglas essentially did the same thing. He took Tyson's best and put him down.

I miss that 70's era with so many great heavyweights. Not only Ali, Frasier, and Foreman. But also, Ken Norton, Jimmy Young, Ernie Shavers. It was a strong class.

You're a bit off. Tyson looked like garbage both of those fights. It was a big transition in his career. Leaving behind the peek-a-boo technique, not utilizing body shot, his jab and his great defensive skills.

[bLacKjAck.]

Originally Posted by PumpingIron

You're a bit off. Tyson looked like garbage both of those fights. It was a big transition in his career. Leaving behind the peek-a-boo technique, not utilizing body shot, his jab and his great defensive skills.

That was right about the time Don King really started taking over..no?

[PumpingIron]

Kind of...basically after his trainer died and then he fired his next trainer...i forget if his firing his 2nd trainer was influenced by king of not...i'd say most likely

[Jumper]

Originally Posted by PumpingIron

You're a bit off. Tyson looked like garbage both of those fights. It was a big transition in his career. Leaving behind the peek-a-boo technique, not utilizing body shot, his jab and his great defensive skills.

We probably just see it a little differently. Maybe he looked bad because of his training habits, and maybe he just got out boxed by superior opponents in those fights. Maybe both. Whatever the reasons are, in the final analysis in both of those fights he was soundly thrashed. No champion gets there without overcoming adversity to some degree or another. With Tyson, when the adversity struck, he was not able to rise above and prevail.

[PumpingIron]

I agree, Tyson is a classic case of his environment...

But I think that his training was the reason he was defeated by a superiour opponent...he knocked down douglas though.

[TripDog]

tyson was the man,i grew up watching all his fights.....I bought that dvd that espn put out with all his early fights....great dvd!!

[TripDog]

Originally Posted by PumpingIron

I agree, Tyson is a classic case of his environment...

But I think that his training was the reason he was defeated by a superiour opponent...he knocked down douglas though.

ya douglas got saved by the bell...mike had him beat!

[Jumper]

Originally Posted by PumpingIron

I agree, Tyson is a classic case of his environment...

But I think that his training was the reason he was defeated by a superiour opponent...he knocked down douglas though.

True dat. But that is really what I am talking about. He was always in control of his other fights. Normally, when he knocked 'em down, they stayed down or basically quit. When Douglas and Holyfield took his best stuff and stayed right in front of him and delivered their own, he didn't know how to respond.

He was definately fun to watch when he was wacking guy's out though.

[Niko]

Originally Posted by Jumper

You mirror my thoughts. Holmes and Holyfield. I might give the edge to Holyfield, but could go either way.

I think Holyfield exposed Tyson for the skilled bully that he was. Tyson hit Holyfield with everything but the kitchen sink in that first fight. I think it was the 2nd round. Holyfield was unaffected and just kept coming. That is when Tyson looked for a way out and ate ear.

Buster Douglas essentially did the same thing. He took Tyson's best and put him down.

I miss that 70's era with so many great heavyweights. Not only Ali, Frasier, and Foreman. But also, Ken Norton, Jimmy Young,Ernie Shavers. It was a strong class.

The 70's were great for the heavyweight division. The fighters allowed one another to define greatness.

I will give the nod to Holyfield also because he came up from a lighter weight class and had some remarkable fights. He had courage, heart, and inner strength that Tyson did not have. The 10th round of the first Holyfield/Bowe fight was one of the greatest single rounds in heavyweight title history and is an example of what I am talking about.

Whenever Tyson was confronted with someone who didn't fear him, he crumpled. Before the first fight between Holyfield and Tyson, Teddy Atlas said Tyson was a coward and would do something to get dq'd. Tyson bit Holyfield's ear.

Tyson, never had that defining of moment of greatness. For all his abilities and skill, he lacked heart. And once he left Kevin Rooney he lacked direction and abandoned the things that made him special. Greatness can be defined about how you handle yourself after defeat. With that in mind, look at Tyson and Holyfield respectively and how they handled defeat.

[TripDog]

mike was a street kid...the fact he got to where he did was a sucsess.....he in his early prime would scrub holyfield without a doubt.....lets be real our primes aren't at the same time...like when he fought larry holmes...yea tyson kicked his a$$ but that wasn't holmes prime.......hahah that is a good fight tho.....fukc holmes......kid dynamite baby

[Niko]

Originally Posted by TripDog

mike was a street kid...the fact he got to where he did was a sucsess.....he in his early prime would scrub holyfield without a doubt.....lets be real our primes aren't at the same time...like when he fought larry holmes...yea tyson kicked his a$$ but that wasn't holmes prime.......hahah that is a good fight tho.....fukc holmes......kid dynamite baby

Making millions doesn't make you a great boxer though. I'm a life long boxing fan and when Tyson was first coming up I was in awe. After one fight, in which he knocked his opponent out in the second round he viewed his performance as a C+. I was impressed as here was a young kid that's hungry and sees room for improvement when most would give themselves an A for such a performance.

Then he $hit it all away. He had the ability to be one of the greatest of all time and now we are arguing whether he was a great heavyweight of the past 25 years. That to me is not what greatness is.

Without a doubt he would beat Holyfield when Tyson was in his prime? Push aside the fact that they were in different weight classes at the time, it would have been a more competitive fight but it's not a no doubter.

[PumpingIron]

different weight classes?