I know most of the big names in this era and the outcomes of many of the big fights, but don't have a good sense of who the best is in this era. What do you think?
He didn't ditch Cuss D'Amato, he died.Tyson was the best until he ditched his original trainer. All down hill from there. Not only did that guy know exactly how to train Tyson, he knew how to keep Tyson in check.
right. alot of people will argue Tyson didnt have high caliber opponents in his prime. Holyfield has faught alot of tough guys, Lewis as well. I might have to go with Lewis but I dont think you can really pick one guy. You would have to clarify the qualifications for this title of "the greatest" a lil more.He didn't ditch Cuss D'Amato, he died.
This makes a difference. I wanted to let people determine this for themselves, but you could take it as who had the best career in this span or who at their prime was the best fighter.You would have to clarify the qualifications for this title of "the greatest" a lil more.
I never followed boxing real closely is why I started the thread. I guess if I had to say career-wise, maybe Lennox, and best in their prime = Tyson.
Razor Ruddock? Golata? Botha? Spinks? Holmes?Tyson never fought any great opponents. He was in the gap from Frazier-Ali-Foreman and Holyfield-Bowe-Lewis. He will always have an aura around him, but he never showed the heart of a champion or has a signature fight.
Outside of Holmes, I would not consider any of them to be great boxers. Solid, but not all-time greats.Razor Ruddock? Golata? Botha? Spinks? Holmes?
He lost to holyfield, lewis and buster douglas along the way though.
Spinks is the best outta that list...Outside of Holmes, I would not consider any of them to be great boxers. Solid, but not all-time greats.
I think that Spinks got gift decisions against Holmes.Spinks is the best outta that list...
It's too bad Tyson had to fade into "Bolivian". Didn't Evander usually fight around 210?I just wanna throw some stats out there...
Michael "Jinx" Spinks 31-1-0 (21 KO)
James "Buster" Douglas 33-6-1 (25 KO)
Donovan "Razor" Ruddock 37-5-1 (28 KO)
Francios "The White Buffalo" Botha 44-4-2 (28 KO)
Andrew Golata 39-6-1 (32 KO)
Larry "The Easton Assasin" Holmes 69-6-0 (44 KO)
And when they fought...
Michael "Jinx" Spinks 31-0-0, Tyson had 6lbs
James "Buster" Douglas 29-4-1, Tyson gave up 11lbs
Donovan "Razor" Ruddock 24-1-1/24-2-1, Tyson gave up 9 and 22 lbs respectively
Francios "The White Buffalo" Botha 39-1-0, Tyson gave up 10lbs
Andrew Golata 36-4-0, Tyson gave up 18lbs
Larry "The Easton Assasin" Holmes 48-2-0, Tyson gave up 10lbs
Tyson usually fought under 220lbs...thats insane for a HW. For a predominant part of his career he only fought top 5 contenders. Most guys got hurt so badly by the man that he literally f-ed up the rest of their careers. It took 27 fights for Tyson to get his first loss, and and another 8 for the next, until he lost twice to holyfield in 96 and 97.
He was barely above 200 when he fought Bowe. I just re-watched those matches on ESPN classic ad they are some the best HW bouts of all-time.It's too bad Tyson had to fade into "Bolivian". Didn't Evander usually fight around 210?
I'm willing to bet that no person fvcked with him when he was locked up.Bowe was nasty too, until he went to jail.
I just wanna throw some stats out there...
Michael "Jinx" Spinks 31-1-0 (21 KO)
James "Buster" Douglas 33-6-1 (25 KO)
Donovan "Razor" Ruddock 37-5-1 (28 KO)
Francios "The White Buffalo" Botha 44-4-2 (28 KO)
Andrew Golata 39-6-1 (32 KO)
Larry "The Easton Assasin" Holmes 69-6-0 (44 KO)
And when they fought...
Michael "Jinx" Spinks 31-0-0, Tyson had 6lbs
James "Buster" Douglas 29-4-1, Tyson gave up 11lbs
Donovan "Razor" Ruddock 24-1-1/24-2-1, Tyson gave up 9 and 22 lbs respectively
Francios "The White Buffalo" Botha 39-1-0, Tyson gave up 10lbs
Andrew Golata 36-4-0, Tyson gave up 18lbs
Larry "The Easton Assasin" Holmes 48-2-0, Tyson gave up 10lbs
Tyson usually fought under 220lbs...thats insane for a HW. For a predominant part of his career he only fought top 5 contenders. Most guys got hurt so badly by the man that he literally f-ed up the rest of their careers. It took 27 fights for Tyson to get his first loss, and and another 8 for the next, until he lost twice to holyfield in 96 and 97.
Holmes was way passed his prime when he fought Tyson.
Spinks, a blown up light heavy, lost the fight before he even stepped into the ring with Tyson. This was Tyson at his most devastating.
Razor Ruddock was a one punch fighter. He had a hybrid hook/upper cut punch and that was basically it. A decent chin too.
Botha was never an upper echelon heavyweight. His record was made against tomato cans. He had neither the skills nor the ability to hang with Tyson and yet he was beating Tyson until he walked into a right.
Buster KO'd Tyson. Buster at the peak of his game and Tyson hardly trained for the fight. This was the beginning of the end for him.
Golata is a nut case who up and quit in their fight.
What made Tyson so amazing was not only his skill and attributes but the fact that he was so young. You saw this kid and couldn't help but get excited at the thought of what he could accomplish when he enters into his prime. Unfortunately, he never gave himself the chance to fulfill his potential.
My vote for greatness over the past 25 years goes to Larry Holmes and Holyfield.
You're a bit off. Tyson looked like garbage both of those fights. It was a big transition in his career. Leaving behind the peek-a-boo technique, not utilizing body shot, his jab and his great defensive skills.You mirror my thoughts. Holmes and Holyfield. I might give the edge to Holyfield, but could go either way.
I think Holyfield exposed Tyson for the skilled bully that he was. Tyson hit Holyfield with everything but the kitchen sink in that first fight. I think it was the 2nd round. Holyfield was unaffected and just kept coming. That is when Tyson looked for a way out and ate ear.
Buster Douglas essentially did the same thing. He took Tyson's best and put him down.
I miss that 70's era with so many great heavyweights. Not only Ali, Frasier, and Foreman. But also, Ken Norton, Jimmy Young, Ernie Shavers. It was a strong class.
That was right about the time Don King really started taking over..no?You're a bit off. Tyson looked like garbage both of those fights. It was a big transition in his career. Leaving behind the peek-a-boo technique, not utilizing body shot, his jab and his great defensive skills.
You're a bit off. Tyson looked like garbage both of those fights. It was a big transition in his career. Leaving behind the peek-a-boo technique, not utilizing body shot, his jab and his great defensive skills.
ya douglas got saved by the bell...mike had him beat!I agree, Tyson is a classic case of his environment...
But I think that his training was the reason he was defeated by a superiour opponent...he knocked down douglas though.
True dat. But that is really what I am talking about. He was always in control of his other fights. Normally, when he knocked 'em down, they stayed down or basically quit. When Douglas and Holyfield took his best stuff and stayed right in front of him and delivered their own, he didn't know how to respond.I agree, Tyson is a classic case of his environment...
But I think that his training was the reason he was defeated by a superiour opponent...he knocked down douglas though.
The 70's were great for the heavyweight division. The fighters allowed one another to define greatness.You mirror my thoughts. Holmes and Holyfield. I might give the edge to Holyfield, but could go either way.
I think Holyfield exposed Tyson for the skilled bully that he was. Tyson hit Holyfield with everything but the kitchen sink in that first fight. I think it was the 2nd round. Holyfield was unaffected and just kept coming. That is when Tyson looked for a way out and ate ear.
Buster Douglas essentially did the same thing. He took Tyson's best and put him down.
I miss that 70's era with so many great heavyweights. Not only Ali, Frasier, and Foreman. But also, Ken Norton, Jimmy Young,Ernie Shavers. It was a strong class.
Making millions doesn't make you a great boxer though. I'm a life long boxing fan and when Tyson was first coming up I was in awe. After one fight, in which he knocked his opponent out in the second round he viewed his performance as a C+. I was impressed as here was a young kid that's hungry and sees room for improvement when most would give themselves an A for such a performance.mike was a street kid...the fact he got to where he did was a sucsess.....he in his early prime would scrub holyfield without a doubt.....lets be real our primes aren't at the same time...like when he fought larry holmes...yea tyson kicked his a$$ but that wasn't holmes prime.......hahah that is a good fight tho.....fukc holmes......kid dynamite baby:twisted: