Steroids in the NFL

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by ELTORONEGRO
    I actually think the NFL is very clean for two reason #1 They have the most concrete testing regimen of any sport in the world #2 Football has always been ahead of the curve when it comes to training
    No way, these guys only get caught if they're running Deca LOL. testing for IGF-1 and HGH is also worthless


  2. Exactly Baseball has always been behind when it came to conditioning when I say very clean I mean relative to other sports yes there is still some use but not as much as may people would believe
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
    The NFL does have , in theory, a strict Steroid testing policy of random testing on and offseason, but, in practice, there has been an exploitable loophole in their testosterone/epitestosterone ratio threshold of 6:1, which has allowed players to use more careful dosing to avoid hitting the limit, and substances like HGH and IGF, I'll take IW's word for it on that one, are presently undetectable.

    The NFL is planning to go to 4:1 t/ep ratio this year in line with WADA guidelines, and further investigate changes in a player's testing results even if below this threshold level.

    To say that today's players are bigger, faster and stronger than players of 20 and 30 years ago because of Gear is not true though. The NFl started testing inseason in 1987, and offseason in 1990, The NCAA started testing football players in 1990,before that Gear was heavily and very widely used without penalty, this I know from personal experience.

    The difference between today and then is that gear is still being use but less so than it once was, and it's the scientific improvements in the strength and conditioning programs of college and the pros with better nutritional regimes and nonbanned supplements with less drinking and recreational drug use today.

    It's even down to the high school level now, guys coming into the NFL now have the benefit of years of far better physical development programs than were in use back in the day.
    This is very true about the strength and conditioning programs, we even had one in high school where they instructed us on nutrition, hydration, and training program. Our coaches were very strict and kept us working out all year long. This was unheard of in the 60's, 70's and even 80's. There was also steroid use back then, like there is now, but these new improvements in training and nutrition have taken athletes to a whole new level.

  4. i was in the process of turning myself into a WLB before my knee got distroyed. all I can say is their doses are very different. I'm thinking low test, HGH and low Deca (if they use winny). i'd be shocked if anyone ran orals. in season, it's more about not losing weight than building (obviously).

    I would assume the higher doses are in the underclassmen years at college. recruits come in and usually need 15-40lbs to play their position. by junior year or sophomore (redshirt) they are ready to go and don't need big doses anymore.

    edit: similar to a baseball pitchers mentality, anabolic steroids or HGH or recovery to allow you to go 100% next sunday. To recover from injuries too - when was the last time you heard of an injuried player getting tested or busted? never... it's out of the realm completely
    My Little Site about Hair Loss & Anabolics-
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  5. I think you all are overblowing steroid usage in the NFL. You also have to realize that there is already an innate selection bias in the NFL. Here at AM, we're just ordinary guys who can transform ourselves to whatever we want by the use of drugs. In the NFL, the ONLY people who make it to that level are the best athletes in the world... It's similar to saying that everyone in basketball is tall because they take HGH -- no hormones, just selection bias.

    Besides that, I am a firm believer that race is a big issue in athleticism. I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but you have to realize that African slaves were genetically bred for hundreds of years to be the strongest, fastest, most durable people in the world, and there are a lot of scholars who speculate that is the reason that there are superhuman freaks in sports today. Even without the whole issue of breeding, West Africans have evolved for speed (calf/hip placement, FT muscle fiber ratio, etc), and there are many studies showing why they are genetically superior for athletics ON AVERAGE.

    Do you see any white runningbacks? White wide receivers? White cornerbacks? If steroids were prominent in the NFL, there would be a lot of white runningbacks, white wide receivers, etc, because they would be able to compensate genetically. I personally know dozens of black ahletes from school, who I know did not touch juice, but were naturally 180 lbs 5'10, 6% bodyfat, all with hitting the gym a dozen times in their life max. Chad Johnson said that his pregame meal is a burger and a soda, and having a lot of black friends who eat fast food constantly and are more ripped than many BBers at all times of the year, I believe them.

    We at AM work hard for our mass. But would anyone who didn't have to work that hard (or know that much) to get where we are, and believe me there are many of them, even bother to spend their time on an internet forum to learn this stuff?

  6. Quote Originally Posted by NYhomeboy
    Besides that, I am a firm believer that race is a big issue in athleticism. I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but you have to realize that African slaves were genetically bred for hundreds of years to be the strongest, fastest, most durable people in the world, and there are a lot of scholars who speculate that is the reason that there are superhuman freaks in sports today. Even without the whole issue of breeding, West Africans have evolved for speed (calf/hip placement, FT muscle fiber ratio, etc), and there are many studies showing why they are genetically superior for athletics ON AVERAGE.
    Good input. I do agree with some of this - but it still raises some questions. For strength (and strength alone) Eastern Europeans are on average the strongest race I believe, they aren't very athletic however.

    The slavery to athletics issue usually goes back to Blacks and Africans, but my question is - Jews were in slavery for hundreds of years (from the time of the pyramids) but on average they are average to below average for strength and speed. I don't really disagree with the point on Black athletes - but assuming it were true, shouldn't Jews have followed a similar evolutionary path?

    Quote Originally Posted by NYhomeboy
    Do you see any white runningbacks? White wide receivers? White cornerbacks? If steroids were prominent in the NFL, there would be a lot of white runningbacks, white wide receivers, etc, because they would be able to compensate genetically. I personally know dozens of black ahletes from school, who I know did not touch juice, but were naturally 180 lbs 5'10, 6% bodyfat, all with hitting the gym a dozen times in their life max. Chad Johnson said that his pregame meal is a burger and a soda, and having a lot of black friends who eat fast food constantly and are more ripped than many BBers at all times of the year, I believe them.
    Receiver/Cornerbacks comes down to speed and fast twitch, so I won't disagree that blacks are far dominant. We are talking strictly NFL though. Certainly there are plenty of White skill position players at fairly high levels in NCAA and elsewhere.

    But also, what about the Black NFL players in the 80s? They were much smaller. They might have been 230lbs but were 15% BF. The players today are 230lbs and 8 and 9%. Is that simply training? The players do too much cardio during the year to maintain so much lean mass at so little body fat naturally. That goes for all races.

    Funny you mention Chad Johnson, I think the 'Chad Johnson Diet' is overblown quite a bit. My friends heard he eats McDonalds - so they start eating it everyday and then get fat. They then declare Chad Johnson is a genetic freak - which is true to a certain degree. Johnson probably eats it once a week at most and certainly not everyday. ESPN blew that pre-game way out of proportion, they did for Rod Smith too. Chad or Rod aren't particulary strong recievers though - very lanky, fast and a rocket metabolism with tons of cardio.

    When we look at the really solid guys, Eddie George or Ahman Green - there diets are nearly flawless. Jamal Lewis is possibly an exception because he is nearly a defensive end playing RB - but I have no doubt he juiced big time at Tennessee.

    We aren't really disagreeing completely, but your black friends that eat a lot of fast food and stay lean. How big are they? 180-200? at 5-10 or 6-1? do they do a ton of cardio whether it be basketball, football or whatever?

    I agree that on average, Blacks have a higher genetic plateau. They are often build for movements like bench press (football players, not basketball guys with long arms). More Fast Twitch no doubt... and usually a faster metabolism, especially if combined with cardio. All advantages.

    But to think say their genetic limit is ridiculously far above every race, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. They are better athletes but accordingly need to use steroids to keep up/or above others using steroids as well.
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  7. Good stuff -- I'm glad that there are people who accept the whole African dominance in sports without being "racist", haha.

    As far as the whole slavery thing, you'll see that there were very many races taken into slavery. Even Asians were taken into slavery... The Chinese enslaved the Koreans, and there aren't many Asians in football, lol. The reason that I believe that slavery was particularly beneficial to African Americans is that there were seldom conditions in history faced like the African slaves faced in the south. The conditions, humidity, and labor were just horrendous, and there was no other race except Africans built for facing those conditions. I know for a fact that the Chinese definitely did not breed Koreans for strength/stamina, and I don't believe that the Jews were bred for it either. So, while there is a point that many different races were "enslaved", the amount of time is way too short for any evolution to have taken place -- the only genetic tampering could be breeding, which was unique for Africans in America.

    Interesting point about the size/speed of today's black NFL players, however would it not have been easier for them to juice in the 80s when it was legal? There are many accounts of players from decades ago stating that juicing was very prominent in the NFL. Jim Haslett stated that nearly everyone did it with the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 70s and 80s, but that the sport is pretty clean now. If that were true, they might have been even leaner decades ago, given that juice was more easily accessible.

    You're right though, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the truly genetic freaks in terms of sheer size and bf% juiced... Now that I think about it, some of the size that they keep with that amount of training and work is ridiculous. But I think anything over 20%, even maybe 10% is way overblown. I think that Paul Tagliabue is serious about keeping the reputation of the sport.

    I do have black friends that easily get to Marvin Harrison's size (I played a lot of pickup football in college just on the green, lol), or even Jamal Lewis's size surprisingly, without following a diet... just lots of cardio, lots of eating and lifting (Knew this guy Reggie, 240 lbs, 5'10, not ripped but very visible abs... works out a lot but not very knowledgable). Although when you do think about the natural test levels of the absolute top Athletes in America, it would be comparable to your average Joe taking a low dose of test, so I don't think it would be out of the question to say that NFL players can get up to that size, weather that much training, and maintain a low bf%.

  8. I can't believe I had to go all the way to page three before someone decided to attribute things to training and nutrition.

    You can take a person further naturally in 3 years than most people that use anabolic steroids will ever get in 6. Why? Because everyone is walking around thinking anyone in top condition must be doing it with the help of drugs.

    I can't believe so many people on a fitness board still think muscles=steroids. Thats not the case, and the real answers are all over this board, as long as you stay out of the "magic pill" forums.

  9. it's moreso that players maintain their size and strength at very low body fat percentages throughout a season. nutrition, training and genetics may have gotten them there - but to maintain that level doing complete catabolic activities raises a flag in my mind
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by NYhomeboy
    Good stuff -- I'm glad that there are people who accept the whole African dominance in sports without being "racist", haha.
    hey man, Blacks:[most]Athletics AS Asian:[most]Academics

    Quote Originally Posted by NYhomeboy
    So, while there is a point that many different races were "enslaved", the amount of time is way too short for any evolution to have taken place -- the only genetic tampering could be breeding, which was unique for Africans in America.
    Not taking us off-topic, but how about the Ballin Blackz? I mean how'd they get such long arms and hops? It's like God knew that one day there would be an NBA and Shoe contracts. haha, that's not racist - it just boggles my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYhomeboy
    Interesting point about the size/speed of today's black NFL players, however would it not have been easier for them to juice in the 80s when it was legal?
    Same in Baseball though, but it was Post-Canseco that the players started blowing up.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYhomeboy
    You're right though, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the truly genetic freaks in terms of sheer size and bf% juiced... Now that I think about it, some of the size that they keep with that amount of training and work is ridiculous. But I think anything over 20%, even maybe 10% is way overblown. I think that Paul Tagliabue is serious about keeping the reputation of the sport.
    I'm thinking HGH, good diet, awesome training, Beverly supplements! and probably cycles in the off season.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYhomeboy
    I do have black friends that easily get to Marvin Harrison's size (I played a lot of pickup football in college just on the green, lol), or even Jamal Lewis's size surprisingly, without following a diet...
    true, but can they maintain that size at a sub 8% BF playing NFL football? That's what I'm getting - but you know that by now

    work ethic is a given, but there comes a point of overtraining. The NFL workouts combined with intense, water-free cardio in 90 degree weather is defined as overtraining - especially if done at 6-8% BF. The players lose some weight, but something like that would make any player in his mid 30s lose 15-20lbs.
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  11. great book, [ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1592289029/ref=sr_11_1/002-6287028-5304822?redirect=true&%5Fencod ing=UTF8]Amazon.com: Dunks, Doubles, Doping: How Steroids are Killing American Athletics: Books: Nathan Jendrick[/ame]

    neither pro-steroid or anti-steroid
    My Little Site about Hair Loss & Anabolics-
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  12. Keep in mind that these guys can also around the testing by using GH, slin, and IGF-1 to maintain their gains and stay lean. I don't think steroid use is worse then it used to be but the training, nutrition, and quest for $$$ have definitely made a difference when you compare today's players to the guys from the 60's, 70's, and even 80's

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
    Keep in mind that the NFL players one will usually read about are the best of the best of the best,first string superstars with time tested training regimes and being exceptional genetic specimens.

    Given a strict scientific disipline of training, nutrition, sleep and supplements, a Meso/Endo exceptional genetic freak can do a extraordinary amount of high intensity cardio without sacrificing mass. I bolded Sleep , because for me and many like this, it's the key component.

    A great deal of physical vitality is inherent, the genetic predisposition of an individual and these guys have the Trifecta - the Genes, the Smarts, and the Disipline to keep doing it day in and day out the strictly right way in a 24/7 since they were a little kid lifestyle.
    Exactly. The game changes for these guys when they literally have a TEAM of professionals in their respective fields dedicated to their individual athletic excellence.

    Imagine what you could achieve if you had a team of Bobo's putting you through the paces 7 days a week..in person nonetheless.

  14. i won't disagree with that. I would be a fool to do so.

    but how then would you explain the paradox of: anabolic steroids being widespread in baseball (an anaerobic sport of the most part) but not in football (a sport that requires more athletic ability [speed/agility, strength, endurance] and of a more catabolic nature? is that simply testing procedures?

    granted, baseball players do not train like football players. they can't because of the 162 game schedule nor do they 'have to'.


    what would you gain with perfect diet, training, sleep? Your genetic potential. But add all that cardio, head-on tackling, injuries and roads trip to different cities.. your training, diet and sleep and only be so perfect.

    that's where GH comes in, im convinced. Massive muscle sparing post-game meals and GH.

    edit: In terms of anabolic steroids though - I'm thinking it's limited to the offseason. Most guys have that 3-4month window to put on the weight and strength. It can't be done during the season. And the doses are not bodybuilding doses - well unless you are David Boston. It's kinda funny - he ended up getting busted for HCG of all things.
    My Little Site about Hair Loss & Anabolics-
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  15. And what, may I ask, is "genetic potential"?

    It's a phrase that gets thrown around much too often in my opinion, not to mention that it's a completely useless concept in and of itself.

    Knowing you have a limit, but not being aware of it's level until you reach it has little practical use.
    It's like,"lifelong earning potential", until you have lived your life, how do you know how much you will eventually earn?

    A lesser known book that doesn't get 1/10th of the attention that it deserves is the Anabolic Diet, by Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale. Anyone that follows this diet and the amino acid and vitamin supplementation contained therein will have a much different view on the question of whether professional athletes are using drugs.

    Once you see bona fide steroidlike results obtained through natural means the lines become blurred rather quickly.

  16. As far as baseball is concerned, I have yet to see any proof positive that doping is so rampant in baseball.

    A few guys that use say "everyone else is doing it"?

    Well isn't that both convenient and typical. Alcoholics and Drug addicts like to claim "everyone is doing it" as well, it doesn't mean they are right. Two or three guys on a team, thats not everyone either.

    It seems to me that a person is branded an anabolic steroids user nowadays the minute someone accuses them of it. No proof needed. They said it, why would they lie? And now you are a user.

    And even the other athletes feed the fallacy, for the reason in my first post. They see someone in better condition than they are in and dismiss it as the result of performance enhancing drugs.

    It couldn't be that they worked harder, now could it?

    The majority of the time, in amateur tested events, the ones that are caught aren't even the ones at the top of their field. They are the ones in the back of the pack trying to get to the top.

    Are they falling behind because they are unlucky in genetics, and unlucky enough not to slip through drug tests undetected?

    Or is it because they are using drugs as a crutch, and they are getting outworked by the ones that know drugs only help a fraction of a percent IF training and diet are taken care of?

    Something to ponder. I tried to upload the PDF, it wouldn't let me do it. It's a good book if you read it, quite an eye opener if you take the time to use it properly.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    .... and I hope it doesn't change.

  18. Morpheus;

    I've tried the anabolic diet. It was basically consuming meat every meal, and nothing but meat. It was popular about 10 years ago.

    Mauro di Pasquale has some good ideas.

    Personally you have to realize one thing; the most anyone in the world has ever bench pressed RAW (that is without a bench shirt) is only around 715 lbs. There are many players in the NFL who can bench press 550 lbs. or more RAW (without a bench shirt).

    Larry Allen for example can bench press close to 700 lbs. RAW. (I've seen it on video)

    If you look at the year that GH was produced synthetically, (1987) you will see that the average weight of an NFL lineman went up around 35 lbs. from 1986-1988. That was not a coincidence.

    Further the coach of the Saints admitted that when he played back in the 1970s and 1980s ALL lineman were on steroids, and most the linebackers were on them. (he claimed to have been bench pressing 440 lbs. before he took steroids, and went from 160 lbs. as a Senior in high school to 250 lbs. when he was a rookie in the NFL, he was saying he did that naturally. Then he said after he did steroids his bench press only went up to 480 lbs., then of course he suddenly stopped and never used them again. This is an example of how far in denial that athletes are. He is more or less saying that he didn't get more then a 10% gain in strength from steroids, which is nonsense. Nobody would use them if thats all the difference they make.

    The blacks can run faster then whites on average. (or any other race for that matter) This is why they are dominating in the NFL. You don't see them totally dominating powerlifting or strongman, because thier speed does not help them.

    As far as sprinting goes, check this out. Steroids increase the 100M dash time in highly trained athletes by around 7/10ths of a second in the first year of consistent use (one cycle after another) This would be like having a head start of around 7-10 yards in a 100 yard sprint. There is no way in hell anyone can compete with that.

    I would guess steroids can increase strength by at least 40% in highly trained athletes. I've seen a few people double thier strength within a year just from steroid use. (not counting GH, IGF-1, ect.)

    You'd have to be a damn fool not to use steroids if you were to play in the NFL.

    Personally I saw more steroids in the Junior High School Football level then they claim to have in the NFL. (I know at least 3 starting players at my junior high used steroids during the season) It wouldn't surprise me if 8-10 players in junior high had used them.

    I know for a fact at least 5-6 starting players at my high school were on steroids. (they admitted using)

    At the junior college I played for, I would estimate that 90% of the starters used steroids, or had in the past. Those who didn't use basically never got any playing time, or were scout team players.

    At the division I level, it must be higher then it was at the Junior High School level don't you think? And at the pro level?

    I would estimate that there isn't an NFL player alive who hasn't used steroids at some point in his life, and I would guess that 90% use GH, and another 40% use IGF-1 and or Insulin. Thats just my opinion based on my knowledge of the drugs. The more I learn about them, the more I realize its impossible to be an elite Football player, sprinter, olympic lifter, powerlifter, bodybuilder, ect. without them.

    The human body is simply not capable of performing at a world class level without drugs (and without ever having used them) when competing against another world class athlete who is on the drugs. I'm not saying its impossible, its just that it isn't happening. I can back this up with thousands of points and go on for days, but you can believe whatever you want. If you try to compete at a world class level without the drugs you are only going to waste your time/life.

    Steroids and other drugs can increase the 40 yard dash time by 3/10th of a second, cause a player to gain up to 60-80 lbs. of muscle, and increase strength by more then double what it would be if they had never used steroids, and increase recovery time from injury, not to mention increasing coordination, ect.

    If Bo Jackson for example had never used steroids considering he ran a 4.1 40 at 230 lbs., why didn't he just use them and get up to 270-280 running a 3.8 40 yard dash? The answer is that he was already on them.

  19. By the way; do you think that Tom Platz didn't use steroids?

  20. One Name bill Romanowski

  21. Football is catabolic. Guys would lose 20-30lbs a year if not for GH.

  22. I hate to say it but, these guys are far from being genetic freaks. I've seen them in practice and close up in the gyms. They really aren't world class athletes, nothing like Olympic sprinters, Olympic lifters, ect.

    Basically without the drugs, they are nothing. People don't realize how much the drugs actually improve athletic ABILITY on top of size, and strength.

    And the media makes these guys look like gods.

    Sure they would be amazing if they were all natural, but the evidence is pretty damn strong that they aren't.

    And part of the business of football is making people think that they are all clean, which makes the NFL players that much more awesome to fans.

  23. I just wanted to add something really personal here for anyone who aspires to play at the NFL level;

    I've spoken directly to a former NFL strength coach who said at least 90% of NFL players were using steroids in the early to mid 1980s.

    Also I had a doctor who was an NFL doctor who said that "they are ALL on steroids" and was confirmed by one of the nurses that this was the case.

    So basically don't do what I did which was train your ass off for years and then end up just getting hurt over and over again at the college level.

    I know of so many guys who made it to the college level, and wether it was Division II, DIII, NAIA, JC, or DI, soooooooooo
    many of them got hurt in thier FRESHMAN year, and never really got a chance to shine in college because they weren't juiced.

    The few people I know who played in DI, admitted to using steroids, and were not ashamed of it. (but they all seemed to be able to get playing time over a 4 year period, and were able to recover from injuries, if they had them, to play again)

    The sad thing is that if you don't use steroids, chances are you will get hurt your first year. (probably around 75%)


  24. anybody see shawn merryman play? he's a beast, and if he continues to evolve ;-) he will be one of the best defensive players ever. one of the few defensive players worth the game ticket price all by tehmselves.
  

  
 

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