Anybody watchin Olympic Hockey?

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    Anybody watchin Olympic Hockey?


    i cant get enough of it! unfortunately the games are usually on 4am-2pm most days but the weekend. a lot of good games today. the usa really tanked but theyre not supposed to do extremelly well these games. the russia-slovakia game was outstanding! im hoping for a czech-slovakia gold medal game. mostly cuz my grandfather was from czechoslovakia before it split lol anybody else watching? predictions?

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    yes olympic hockey is the best!!!! irbe stood on his head against USA today.

    they simulated the whole tourney on espn or sportingnews or somewhere (cant find it now) and they said it was gonna be canada over USA 5-3 in the gold metal game with slovakia winning the bronze
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    Hey what do you think about Hasek and the hamstring tear/pull ??? I betcha Muckler is pissed right now eh I personally love it, can't stand the guy or the Sens.

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    Hey what do you think about Hasek and the hamstring tear/pull ??? I betcha Muckler is pissed right now eh I personally love it, can't stand the guy or the Sens.

    jecko
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    the hasek injury sucks for sure but vokoun is a very capable backup. he dominated the worlds last year so im not too worried. what i am worried about is the loss they took to the swiss this morning. wtf was that? lol i guess any team, any day. but thats the risk the teams take by sending their allstars over. the russians are taking it to the swedes at the moment.
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    I've been escaping to the residency lounge as often as possible to catch games, but my impression so far is that Ovechkin is quite possibly the best hockey player ever and with Malkin joining the fold, perhaps Pitt will win 30games next year....maybe.

    Canada is gonna walk away with this tournament, but How about them Slovaks?
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhockey
    I've been escaping to the residency lounge as often as possible to catch games, but my impression so far is that Ovechkin is quite possibly the best hockey player ever and with Malkin joining the fold, perhaps Pitt will win 30games next year....maybe.

    Canada is gonna walk away with this tournament, but How about them Slovaks?
    When doesnt Canada?!?!? I still cant get over the fact that Latvia tied the US!!! I mean what is Irbe like 50yrs old now!
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    the slovaks just keep goin! i love this team. granted they played an overmatched but very tough latvia team today i really like their chances. this team is just straight offense and then they have chara the oager back on the blue line. if budaj holds his own they have a serious chance at gold. for awhile i thought the germans mightve mounted a comeback against canada today... but it didnt last lol
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    Lubo on D, Demitra/Satan/Bondra up front......it's all you need. Chara. Ha! Goon!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhockey

    Canada is gonna walk away with this tournament, but How about them Slovaks?
    As much as I love to hear that sentiment, I truly think that the medal round is going to be tough competition. From what I've seen from the Canadian team is that they are about 2-3 more games away from the cohesiveness that they need to repeat as gold medalists.

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    not to mention that the swiss are winning 2-0 at the moment and gerber is standing on his head. the ref is calling pretty much any physical play by canada tho and they just robbed canada of a goal. the russians barely beat kazakhstan 1-0 after destroying the swedes... who will have forsberg back today so thats good news for them and the flyers. i just love how you can never tell what's going to happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyBoy
    not to mention that the swiss are winning 2-0 at the moment and gerber is standing on his head. the ref is calling pretty much any physical play by canada tho and they just robbed canada of a goal. the russians barely beat kazakhstan 1-0 after destroying the swedes... who will have forsberg back today so thats good news for them and the flyers. i just love how you can never tell what's going to happen.
    I'm not Canadian or Swiss, but that may have been the worst officiating I have EVER seen. Gerber played great, but that was AWFUL.

    Swedes are looking stellar. Slovaks......wow. And Russia....did you see that powerplay with Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Kovalev, Gonchar, and Datsyuk? 8 shots on goal in 1 powerplay.....
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    somebody tell me where the hell this fin team came from?! lol i mean they always do well against the poorer teams in the tournament and then fold against the stronger. they looked absolutely incredible against canada today! definitely deserving of the hype. and how about canada getting shutout two games in a row? i love this! such spontineity.
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    Sheesh, Canadians need to score goals. This is quite a disappointment, all that firepower and they're shooting blanks

    jecko
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhockey
    but my impression so far is that Ovechkin is quite possibly the best hockey player ever
    I want to know what kind of drugs you are on and can I have some too?
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseman
    I want to know what kind of drugs you are on and can I have some too?
    What doesn't he do? He's got Forsberg's hands with better foot-speed, Gretzky's vision with more guts to give/take hits, and he's got a Bure-esque zest for scoring. Oh, and he plays Defense too. Name me 3 other players in the NHL with more than 2 of those qualities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhockey
    What doesn't he do? He's got Forsberg's hands with better foot-speed, Gretzky's vision with more guts to give/take hits, and he's got a Bure-esque zest for scoring. Oh, and he plays Defense too. Name me 3 other players in the NHL with more than 2 of those qualities.
    Bud, can you let the guy play more than 60 games int he NHL before you start considering him the BEST EVER?

    Unreal.
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    I think the Canadians will have a tough time getting through the Finns to get to the medal round. They better wake up fast or they'll end up looking like the USA "NBA Dream Team" losing to the all white, non-NBA Russians in basketball.

    And those Slovaks are doing amazing. I'm scared to think what they'd be like if they rejoined the Czech Republic.

    When I'm not cheering for Canada, I'll be pulling for the Swiss. They kept Canada scoreless, and beat the Czech's - all with only 3 NHL players! I like rooting for the underdogs.

    On a side note, after watching Denmark, Korea and China dominate in speedskating, I wonder why they don't have hockey teams...

    Ovechkin is good, hell, great. Definitely not the best player ever. When he beats a couple of Gretzky's records (any of them - he has tons to choose from), then MAYBE we could even toss that question up there. He's my Rookie of the Year, no doubt, and arguablely one of the best in the NHL this year. He has the potential to be the best, but he has quite a way to go first.

    (Lemeaux was "supposed" to be better than Gretzky, but couldn't keep up. Eric Lindros was supposed to be the "Next One", but look at him now, etc. Give Ovechkin 5 years, and then we'll see where he stands).
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    the fact that other teams only have a few NHL players is reason enough they should be able to win games.

    Team Canada is nothing more than an All-Star team. Sure, Wayne has tried to put together a "team" that can play a full system of hockey (score, check, defend leads, etc) but the fact still remains you have a bunch of All-Star players on this team.

    Other established EU teams have three things going for them:

    1) They already have a base team in place that play within an established system.

    2) They are dropping a few NHL All-Star players into their established team to make it that much better.

    3) These NHL players have all played for their country at one time or another. They are FAMILAR with their team's system and style of play. Its the reason you see guys like Sundin, Salenie <sp> and other players play as well as they do in international play.

    Team Canada, we expect these guys to become a team right from the start without having played 1 game in an established system. Makes it difficult to win games against tougher competition like that.

    I really wish Olympics would stop using pro athletes...
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseman
    the fact that other teams only have a few NHL players is reason enough they should be able to win games.

    Team Canada is nothing more than an All-Star team. Sure, Wayne has tried to put together a "team" that can play a full system of hockey (score, check, defend leads, etc) but the fact still remains you have a bunch of All-Star players on this team..
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by houseman
    I really wish Olympics would stop using pro athletes...
    Not so sure I agree. I do and don't. It gets kind of confusing as to what is considered a "pro" and what is considered an "amatuer". In the "olden" days, team Russia was made of the players from the army or state. They did not receive an "income" for playing hockey. BUT - that's ALL they really did - play hockey. They were a communist country, and therefore didn't really get "paid" to do anything. Hence why they were professional athletes in the fact that their sole purpose is their sport, but amatuers because they weren't "paid" for it.

    It's a little different now with them playing in the NHL and such, but still. A lot of those Eurpeans who are not in the NHL are still playing in a "professional" league somewhere.

    Now what is considered a "professional"? (I'm actually asking a question here, as I'm not 100% sure - it seems a little "grey area" to me). Are track athletes who win money in track meets or get Nike endorsements considered professional? Why or why not?

    I like pro athletes in, because I'm then seeing the best of the best.
    But I like pro athletes out because I feel like I'm seeing people do it for the love of the sport and not money.

    It's a tough call, and I'm not so sure where I stand, and what can be considered fair for everyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunder
    I agree.



    Not so sure I agree. I do and don't. It gets kind of confusing as to what is considered a "pro" and what is considered an "amatuer". In the "olden" days, team Russia was made of the players from the army or state. They did not receive an "income" for playing hockey. BUT - that's ALL they really did - play hockey. They were a communist country, and therefore didn't really get "paid" to do anything. Hence why they were professional athletes in the fact that their sole purpose is their sport, but amatuers because they weren't "paid" for it.

    It's a little different now with them playing in the NHL and such, but still. A lot of those Eurpeans who are not in the NHL are still playing in a "professional" league somewhere.

    Now what is considered a "professional"? (I'm actually asking a question here, as I'm not 100% sure - it seems a little "grey area" to me). Are track athletes who win money in track meets or get Nike endorsements considered professional? Why or why not?

    I like pro athletes in, because I'm then seeing the best of the best.
    But I like pro athletes out because I feel like I'm seeing people do it for the love of the sport and not money.

    It's a tough call, and I'm not so sure where I stand, and what can be considered fair for everyone.
    We have leagues for pro athletes. If they wanted Olympic limelight... don't turn pro.

    Definition of an amateur athlete is one that is not paid. Sponsorships and endorsements are different. Paid to play is a pro athlete.
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    What about sports where there is not enough interest (or other reasons) to warrent a league? I think this could discriminate against athletes who play popular sports vs unpopular sports. (Maybe bobsled athletes would turn "pro" if there was an option to - why discriminate against hockey players because they have a fanbase that want to watch them do their "hobby").

    A professional actor only gets paid IF they win the part. Some actors sole source of income is from acting - there is no league. Same as a track athlete?

    A track athlete (as far as I know) only gets paid IF they win their events. (Maybe they don't, I honestly don't know - but I imagine a purse of some kind). What if this athlete's sole source of income is from doing track events? I would consider this guy a pro too.

    Unless they're working in a non-related field for 40+ hours per week, I think it gets grey as to whether it's their fulltime job or just a hobby.

    In old communist Russia, the hockey players played in fulltime league. This was their job - it's what they trained to do everyday. But they weren't "paid" to play hockey (or to do anything, since "pay" is different in a communist country than what we think of it. The State provides everything they need. <groan>.) But officially, they weren't professional hockey players, they were military men...military men who just happened to not really have to do anything relate to the military because they played hockey.

    Kinda like Ronnia Coleman being an amatuer because he's a police officer fulltime.

    Don't get me wrong, I actually do somewhat agree with Houseman. It's just that I'm not convinced on what is fair when it comes to international competition and the meaning of "pro".

    In sports where there is a pro league, it would be a letdown at the games. "Here's the best players our country has to offer that sucked too bad to make it any further." They're better than average, but worse than the worst professional players.

    Maybe we should have a 2nd catagory for all the events: 1 where everyone is allowed, and 1 where only people with a certain amount of hours at a fulltime job not related to their sport can enter. We do have "drug allowed" and "natural" BB competitions - but we also see how people will always try to cheat the system.

    Next thing you know, you'll have people on the New York Rangers saying they're amatuer hockey players because they don't get paid to play hockey - they do it for free. They only get their money through endorsements from Nike, etc. Granted, that may seem far fetched, but isn't that eerily what China/Russia did?
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    looks like i get my Czech - Slovakia game afterall just not in the medal rounds like I had hoped. other games tomorrow are Russia - Canada, Swiss - Sweden and Finland - USA. should be an amazing day!
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    Ovechkin > Canada.

    Sorry guys, perhaps not the best ever, but did you ever see Gretzky throw a player like Adam Foote off him?
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    Ovechkin is great, no doubt about that.

    But I do remember people used to say that nobody would bodycheck Gretzky because he was a star. Not true - nobody could catch him. They tried and failed. Later, when Gretz got older and slowed down, hit got pummeled on hard.

    Time will tell on Ovechkin. I personally think he's better than Crosby, and I'd trade a lot to have him on my team.

    I do think Russia deserved to win, but it was kinda fishy considering Canada tied the game with 1 minute left, and the ref had that amazing speed to blow the whistle because "he lost sight of the puck". If only video reply could overturn a blind ref. That was what, Canada's 3rd goal that never counted in these games? Suspicious. But then again, it's hard for me to feel sorry for anyone who makes more in 1 year than I will in my lifetime... LoL

    I think the Finn/Russia game is going to be great though. I like both of those teams. I just don't want Sweden to go any further after their alleged dive against Slovakia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhockey
    Ovechkin > Canada.

    Sorry guys, perhaps not the best ever, but did you ever see Gretzky throw a player like Adam Foote off him?
    Seriously, you need to get a clue.

    When this guy can come close to even SMELLING one of Gretzky's or Lemiuex's records than you can continue to talk.

    For now though, you might just wanna keep quiet.
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    wait... the olympics are going on
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseman
    Seriously, you need to get a clue.

    When this guy can come close to even SMELLING one of Gretzky's or Lemiuex's records than you can continue to talk.

    For now though, you might just wanna keep quiet.
    You can't compare the high scoring 80s records to today, at all.

    Regarding Gretzky, I dunno. Regarding Lemieux, he already plays better in his own zone than "super" Mario ever did. Mario's numbers are inflated by years on an awful team and his attitude throughout his career was a disgrace.

    I'll say one more thing and leave it at that......Ovechkin is already better than Lemieux becuase he actually loves the game.
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    I remember hearing this about Mogilny, Federov, Bure...

    The best ever from a rookie?


    Thats ludicrous.

    Saying Mario's numbers are infalted because he was on a bad team is ridculous. If he was on a bad team is thats much HARDER to score. How can you pad your stats in hockey if your team sucks? Play an extra 4 minutes a game? Come on.

    Mario doen'st love the game? He comes back from cancer to play and buys the franchise to try and save it because its going down hill and you are saying he doesn't love the game? Jumping around like an idiot after you score everytime doens't mean you love the game more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhockey
    Ovechkin > Canada.

    Sorry guys, perhaps not the best ever, but did you ever see Gretzky throw a player like Adam Foote off him?
    No, but I saw the original "Next One" Lindros do it many times and look what happened....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    No, but I saw the original "Next One" Lindros do it many times and look what happened....
    Lindros never looked as good at any point in his career as Ovechkin. Lindros never played defense, either.

    Perhaps I overstated my case saying best ever as the numbers obviously don't exist, but the way he plays the game has not been duplicated by ANY player except for Forsberg. Offensive skill, strength, passion, defensive skill, and the ability to do things with the puck that defy physics.

    As to Bure.....no defense, but IMO the best PURE scorer ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    I remember hearing this about Mogilny, Federov, Bure...

    The best ever from a rookie?


    Thats ludicrous.

    Saying Mario's numbers are infalted because he was on a bad team is ridculous. If he was on a bad team is thats much HARDER to score. How can you pad your stats in hockey if your team sucks? Play an extra 4 minutes a game? Come on.

    Mario doen'st love the game? He comes back from cancer to play and buys the franchise to try and save it because its going down hill and you are saying he doesn't love the game? Jumping around like an idiot after you score everytime doens't mean you love the game more.
    It is not harder to score on a bad team in the NHL, the stats just don't support that claim. Bure, Selanne, Lemieux, Yzerman, Hull, Kovalchuk, Nash, Amonte.....the list goes on and on of players who has superior numbers on AWFUL teams. Especially Yzerman. I hate the Redwings, but the numbers he put up on those horrid early 80's RedWings are stellar.

    Obviously there are no absolutes, but as I said, Ovechkin is as close to the COMPLETE package as I've ever seen. There is not a single player in the NHL better than him on both ends of the ice right now. Forsberg would be close if it weren't for the groin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhockey
    Lindros never looked as good at any point in his career as Ovechkin. Lindros never played defense, either.

    Perhaps I overstated my case saying best ever as the numbers obviously don't exist, but the way he plays the game has not been duplicated by ANY player except for Forsberg. Offensive skill, strength, passion, defensive skill, and the ability to do things with the puck that defy physics.

    As to Bure.....no defense, but IMO the best PURE scorer ever.
    The best PURE scorer ever huh?

    I guess you forgot about a guy called Mike Bossy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseman
    The best PURE scorer ever huh?

    I guess you forgot about a guy called Mike Bossy?
    I guess you forgot about Bure's knees. I stand by my statement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhockey
    I guess you forgot about Bure's knees. I stand by my statement.
    I gues you also forgot about Mike's back and knees?

    Seriously. you have absolutely no credability here. None. Zip. Zilch.

    Not when you suggest Ovechkin is the best player ever. Not when you discredit the RECORDS held by guys like Gretzky and Lexmiux. Not when you suggest BURE is the best PURE scorer ever over the likes of 4 time Stantly Cup Champion and record holder Mike Bossy.

    What about Maurice Richard? What about super Mario? Pretty damn good goal scorer himself

    You certainly do seem to have a love afair with the Russian players....
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhockey
    Lindros never looked as good at any point in his career as Ovechkin. Lindros never played defense, either.

    Perhaps I overstated my case saying best ever as the numbers obviously don't exist, but the way he plays the game has not been duplicated by ANY player except for Forsberg. Offensive skill, strength, passion, defensive skill, and the ability to do things with the puck that defy physics.

    As to Bure.....no defense, but IMO the best PURE scorer ever.
    Obvisouly you didn't watch Lindros too close when he won the Hart.

    .....or his first 5-6 years in the league.


    Its easy to score when you are on bad teams? I don't know where in the hell you get that from because its exactly the opposite. The first 5 players you listed are going to be in the Hall of Fame and that is how you justify it?!?!?!!?

    Lemieux's stats are inflated because he was on a bad team?!!?!?!

    A guy who hasn't even completed a full season is the best player ever. Pack it up everyone, I've heard it all now.
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    It's definitely tougher to score when you're on a bad team. Good linemates either feed you a good pass, or score more often from yours.

    Craig Simpson was a 'nobody' until he was on Gretzky's line. Then he posted amazing stats. Gretzky left, Simpson slumped.

    I can't remember who was on Gretzky's line when he first went to LA, but I do remember they had their personal best year there.

    Check out most of the player's on the Oilers in the '80s - then see what they did when they left. Usually plummeted.

    If anything, Lemeaux's stats were inflated because he was on a high scoring team. Jagr, Cullen, Coffey, etc.

    On the flip side, if Ovechkin was playing in Ottawa right now, his stats would be up significantly. He's a damn good player, no doubt about that, especially considering he's playing on a crappy defence-centric team.

    Ovechkin gets my vote for Rookie of the Year.
    Ovechkin can arguably be considered the best player in the NHL right now...arguably...

    But when Bobby Orr or Wayne Gretzky played, there was very little question as to who was the best at that time - little room for argument. I think many people can still argue against Ovechkin this year.

    He has the potential to be the best in the years to come. But like those myostatin inhibitors, I'll wait to see if it actually delivers in the end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunder
    It's definitely tougher to score when you're on a bad team. Good linemates either feed you a good pass, or score more often from yours.
    Disagree. Rick Nash + Kovalchuck's goals in the season before the lockout, explain that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunder
    Craig Simpson was a 'nobody' until he was on Gretzky's line. Then he posted amazing stats. Gretzky left, Simpson slumped.

    I can't remember who was on Gretzky's line when he first went to LA, but I do remember they had their personal best year there.
    Sandstrom and Granato. Or Nichols before they traded him. Undoubtedly a GREAT player can make ****ty players look BETTER. My point is that a great player on a bad team will truly excel on his own. They need to score more and if they're great they will. Yzerman is my case in point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sunder
    If anything, Lemeaux's stats were inflated because he was on a high scoring team. Jagr, Cullen, Coffey, etc.
    It's Lemieux and I disagree 100%. His stats were good because he was GREAT. He WAS a great player, but he also admitted that he never really loved the game, once stating "I play because I'm good at it" early in his career. I never saw the passion in him that I saw in Wayne, Brett, Messier, Stevey Y.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunder
    On the flip side, if Ovechkin was playing in Ottawa right now, his stats would be up significantly. He's a damn good player, no doubt about that, especially considering he's playing on a crappy defence-centric team.
    Nope. He'd be sharing way more icetime and not getting as many touches. It's the same reason Paul Pierce's numbers and Iverson's numbers always look so good. They're great and they score a lot because they HAVE to

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunder
    Ovechkin gets my vote for Rookie of the Year.
    Ovechkin can arguably be considered the best player in the NHL right now...arguably...
    Honestly, even though I still say he's more complete than anyone else in the NHL, he'd be 3rd on my Calder list. Lunqvist has made the Rangers look stellar and Dion Phaneuf is fantastic. Offense is up, getting a good forward is easy, even if they're not as good as Alexander. Getting a great goalie or Blueliner is FAR more significant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunder
    But when Bobby Orr or Wayne Gretzky played, there was very little question as to who was the best at that time - little room for argument. I think many people can still argue against Ovechkin this year.

    He has the potential to be the best in the years to come. But like those myostatin inhibitors, I'll wait to see if it actually delivers in the end.
    Be honest, all the people talking down Ovechkin right now, have you EVER seen a player play that hard at BOTH ends of the rink, work with that level of breakaway speed, handle the puck like it's on a string, throw the body around, dive in front of shots, and do it all with so much flare? He is EXACTLY what the new-NHL needs and having been a fan of Wayne as a child, Forsberg throughout his years as an Av, and spending WAY too much time watching NHL Center Ice for the last 6 years I can say right now that no one has done it the same as Ovechkin, not now or in the past.

    To Bobo: Lindros was big, he never played D, and his skills with the puck were mediocre. He played on a good team, but a good team with only one good line which he centered (see also Jason Allison's good years as a Bruin.)

    To houseman: Bossy was fantastic, admittedly, and I'm probably shaded with a bias because I liked Wayne and the Oilers at the time, but I still feel that in terms of playing only at one end of the rink, Bure was a better pure goalscorer. Bossy was a better overall player.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhockey
    To houseman: Bossy was fantastic, admittedly, and I'm probably shaded with a bias because I liked Wayne and the Oilers at the time, but I still feel that in terms of playing only at one end of the rink, Bure was a better pure goalscorer. Bossy was a better overall player.
    You're talking to a guy who grew up 2 doors down from the Gretzky's.

    A guy whose Atom and Peewee coach was Wally.

    A guy was very good friends with Brent growing up.

    Pretty I am HUGELY biased but I can still say Bossy or Richard was probably the purest of goal scorers that ever played.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uhockey
    Honestly, even though I still say he's more complete than anyone else in the NHL, he'd be 3rd on my Calder list.
    Let me get this straight - you claim that Ovechkin is the best of all time, and yet you feel he cannot currently beat over rookie's right now??? I think you just disproved your original point.
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