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    I think vick will do fairly well in this offense if he can stay healthy. just imagine vick in his early years runnin this type of offense.. BEAST

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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrawler View Post
    I think vick will do fairly well in this offense if he can stay healthy. just imagine vick in his early years runnin this type of offense.. BEAST
    key is staying healthy. im a big fan of foles though. he had a terrible line last year and did decent. even when andy wouldnt run the ball.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrawler View Post
    I think vick will do fairly well in this offense if he can stay healthy. just imagine vick in his early years runnin this type of offense.. BEAST
    Early in his years yes but I think we can all agree he has lost a step or two. He is still one of the better qbs in the league but I didnt think he has ability to be an ageless QB like Manning or Brady, both of whom I have no allegiance to but have to respect their craft. He is still a great mobile qb but he relies too much on his former athletics when he should be focusing on how to be a better pocket QB and learning how to really efficiently hone is his cannon.
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    Couldn't agree more, I really think they only use the read option on in the redzone. Vick has a cannon for an arm but doesn't utilize it
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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBrawler View Post
    Couldn't agree more, I really think they only use the read option on in the redzone. Vick has a cannon for an arm but doesn't utilize it
    Or in some cases, over-utilizes it. ie; no touch haha
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    If they over utilize it then he will most defiantly get hurt then comes in files or Barkley and the gameplan will need tweaking
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    Foles... Damn iphone
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Early in his years yes but I think we can all agree he has lost a step or two. He is still one of the better qbs in the league but I didnt think he has ability to be an ageless QB like Manning or Brady, both of whom I have no allegiance to but have to respect their craft. He is still a great mobile qb but he relies too much on his former athletics when he should be focusing on how to be a better pocket QB and learning how to really efficiently hone is his cannon.

    no disrespect to your opinion but if you watch the All-22 film on eagles games, you will notice the plays were making vick hold the ball longer. longer routes for the receivers...etc plus a HORRIBLE injured O line = no protection/time. if you give vick time, i would take vick over almost any qb in the league besides brady and rodgers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post

    no disrespect to your opinion but if you watch the All-22 film on eagles games, you will notice the plays were making vick hold the ball longer. longer routes for the receivers...etc plus a HORRIBLE injured O line = no protection/time. if you give vick time, i would take vick over almost any qb in the league besides brady and rodgers.
    Um no, right now at least 10 other qbs easily before Vick. Not only his healthy but his decision making are questionable, Kelly's offense will require that. There is a reason he won't be there after this year. Your arguement he had to hold the ball longer would work if he wasn't a mobile qb. His age is also working against him, his career span will be more like a McNair or McNabb than an elway or manning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post

    Um no, right now at least 10 other qbs easily before Vick. Not only his healthy but his decision making are questionable, Kelly's offense will require that. There is a reason he won't be there after this year. Your arguement he had to hold the ball longer would work if he wasn't a mobile qb. His age is also working against him, his career span will be more like a McNair or McNabb than an elway or manning.
    I'm also surprised they didn't try to get nassib instead of Barkley in the 4th. Nassib should be would have been a better fit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post
    Um no, right now at least 10 other qbs easily before Vick. Not only his healthy but his decision making are questionable, Kelly's offense will require that. There is a reason he won't be there after this year. Your arguement he had to hold the ball longer would work if he wasn't a mobile qb. His age is also working against him, his career span will be more like a McNair or McNabb than an elway or manning.
    um, yes. 2010 was the only season vick had a decent line and he played at an MVP level and almost won the MVP. im not arguing that vick is holding the ball longer. its a FACT. watch the all-22 film on it. Andy didnt want him running around every play. He stayed in the pocket, waited for those deep routes to develop and with a bad o line, would get hit more often than not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post
    I'm also surprised they didn't try to get nassib instead of Barkley in the 4th. Nassib should be would have been a better fit.
    fit for what? have you seen kellys NFL offense? no, you havent. so how do you know Nassib would be a good fit? Kelly doesnt need a mobile qb. he didnt have one every year at Oregon.
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    i dont' think vick is a very good quarterback...i know he has 4 pro bowls but really only 1 solid season in his whole career, it was more of a fluke than a sign that vick is a starter in the nfl

    the problem with the eagles is they have a team set up to win now however if they get rid of vick the chances of them winning is greatly reduced

    imo the nfc east is pretty weak overall, theres no powerhouse teams....9-7 record might win the division again but i don't think anyone will look at them as a real threat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    i dont' think vick is a very good quarterback...i know he has 4 pro bowls but really only 1 solid season in his whole career, it was more of a fluke than a sign that vick is a starter in the nfl

    the problem with the eagles is they have a team set up to win now however if they get rid of vick the chances of them winning is greatly reduced

    imo the nfc east is pretty weak overall, theres no powerhouse teams....9-7 record might win the division again but i don't think anyone will look at them as a real threat
    the eagles roster is one of the youngest in the NFL. vick is the oldest player on the team. only like 3 players are 30+. the offense is in win now mode, but with the new scheme, i am expecting them to have issues/bumps. the D is far from a finished product. def rebuilding phase
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    um, yes. 2010 was the only season vick had a decent line and he played at an MVP level and almost won the MVP. im not arguing that vick is holding the ball longer. its a FACT. watch the all-22 film on it. Andy didnt want him running around every play. He stayed in the pocket, waited for those deep routes to develop and with a bad o line, would get hit more often than not.
    Didnt say it wasnt a fact, I said that wasnt the problem he has the mobility still move when the pocket collaspes, peters was his left tackle, what side is Vicks blindside? so no, stop being a homer 10 other qbs i take if before him easily, and probably another 5 more if the line is solid. 1 season doesnt prove much.


    Maybe you dont know this, but every qb gets better with an improved oline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    fit for what? have you seen kellys NFL offense? no, you havent. so how do you know Nassib would be a good fit? Kelly doesnt need a mobile qb. he didnt have one every year at Oregon.

    LOL

    kelly is running pretty much the same offense he ran at oregon, barkley ran a prostyle offense and nassib ran read option his last year. Now your just being ridiculous. Hes not going to change his bread and butter, lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post
    Didnt say it wasnt a fact, I said that wasnt the problem he has the mobility still move when the pocket collaspes, peters was his left tackle, what side is Vicks blindside? so no, stop being a homer 10 other qbs i take if before him easily, and probably another 5 more if the line is solid. 1 season doesnt prove much.


    Maybe you dont know this, but every qb gets better with an improved oline.
    10qb? i'd say more like 15 better than vick

    7 super winning qbs, then we have qb's like matt ryan, andrew luck, rg3, cam newton, kapernick who are all better....then theres the likes of wilson, cutler, schaub, romo, stafford, dalton, and rivers....who all can be argued as better qb's than vick, he's def in the bottom half of the league in terms of starting qb's
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post

    LOL

    kelly is running pretty much the same offense he ran at oregon, barkley ran a prostyle offense and nassib ran read option his last year. Now your just being ridiculous. Hes not going to change his bread and butter, lol
    You do understand chip didn't have a mobile qb every year at oregon, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post

    Didnt say it wasnt a fact, I said that wasnt the problem he has the mobility still move when the pocket collaspes, peters was his left tackle, what side is Vicks blindside? so no, stop being a homer 10 other qbs i take if before him easily, and probably another 5 more if the line is solid. 1 season doesnt prove much.

    Maybe you dont know this, but every qb gets better with an improved oline.
    Yes, vick could have taken off, but reid and marty were trying to make him what he isn't. A pure pocket qb.
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    I have been a vick hater these past two years...but in order to understand his flaws, you must understand what he was asked to do...things he has never done before. If he can grasp this offense, I'm gonna post back on here and laugh at you all!
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    I have been a vick hater these past two years...but in order to understand his flaws, you must understand what he was asked to do...things he has never done before. If he can grasp this offense, I'm gonna post back on here and laugh at you all!
    damn i hope not i'll be in philly a decent amount of time this fall, i'll loose my mind

    but in defense, vick wasn't any good in atlanta either so he's been an average/below average qb his whole career besides one year, even with chip kelly i don't see him just being amazing all of a sudden
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    You do understand chip didn't have a mobile qb every year at oregon, right?
    yes, but I also do know that you need someone some athletic ability, something barkley doesnt have. Nassib has it and has run the offense before barkley has not. Oh before you miss read this again, not nassib isnt exactly mobile.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    I have been a vick hater these past two years...but in order to understand his flaws, you must understand what he was asked to do...things he has never done before. If he can grasp this offense, I'm gonna post back on here and laugh at you all!
    samething he has been asked to do that almost every coach figured out as they were heading out the door, vicks a bad decision maker.

    Im fine with you coming back to laugh, but make sure when he fails , you dont comeback with more excuses why he isnt succeeding and admit he isnt an elite qb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    damn i hope not i'll be in philly a decent amount of time this fall, i'll loose my mind

    but in defense, vick wasn't any good in atlanta either so he's been an average/below average qb his whole career besides one year, even with chip kelly i don't see him just being amazing all of a sudden
    Exactly my thoughts. When teams are more worried about you running than throwing, you are doing it wrong. He has had one decent year and I think it was magnified even more due to the fact that NO ONE thought he would do it. I totally agree his o-line was sh*t. How could it not be? They lost 4 starters. To simply say his play was the product of a bad line and relying on one "feel-good" season from him is totally ignoring his history.
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    At least no one named the man with the fuzzy caterpillar stuck to his forehead, Joe Flucco, as a good QB. That warmed my heart. haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryane87 View Post
    At least no one named the man with the fuzzy caterpillar stuck to his forehead, Joe Flucco, as a good QB. That warmed my heart. haha
    I think the jury is still oput on him, last year cameron was the problem , look at his playoff run last year it was pretty good. I dont think he is elite , but I think hes is better than average, think the next couple seasons are going to be important.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post

    samething he has been asked to do that almost every coach figured out as they were heading out the door, vicks a bad decision maker.

    Im fine with you coming back to laugh, but make sure when he fails , you dont comeback with more excuses why he isnt succeeding and admit he isnt an elite qb.
    False. Atl he was free to run. 2011 2012 he wasn't.
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    I'm not making excuses. I know he's a poor decision maker. But understand the system he was in and what was asked of him first
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryane87 View Post

    Exactly my thoughts. When teams are more worried about you running than throwing, you are doing it wrong. He has had one decent year and I think it was magnified even more due to the fact that NO ONE thought he would do it. I totally agree his o-line was sh*t. How could it not be? They lost 4 starters. To simply say his play was the product of a bad line and relying on one "feel-good" season from him is totally ignoring his history.
    You are lookin at one side of the ball. D was terrible which took away the eagles running game. Its easy to defend the passes when u know its coming
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    I'm not making excuses. I know he's a poor decision maker. But understand the system he was in and what was asked of him first
    I understand what was asked of him, there is a reason he was great for 1 season, the planets aligned 1 season. By your own admission you understand he is a bad decision maker, think how kelly's offense works and apply that to Vick, if hes a bad decision maker kellys offense will be a bad fit. Kellys offense is a giant eqaution, the qb has to make multple reads very quickly something vick isnt good at, this is why you dont need a fast mobile qb for these types of offense, decision making is a key element.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    False. Atl he was free to run. 2011 2012 he wasn't.
    no not false, his reaction was to yes they had some plays designed to run, but most of running was reactionary the pass rush. Hence the reason he failed, he chose to act like a runner when he should have extended the play behind the line of scrimmage, so no the answer is not false. when reid asked him to do the same thing he couldnt do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post
    no not false, his reaction was to yes they had some plays designed to run, but most of running was reactionary the pass rush. Hence the reason he failed, he chose to act like a runner when he should have extended the play behind the line of scrimmage, so no the answer is not false. when reid asked him to do the same thing he couldnt do it.
    completely different discussion and this point wasnt what i was referring to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48;3996478[B
    ]I understand what was asked of him[/B], there is a reason he was great for 1 season, the planets aligned 1 season. By your own admission you understand he is a bad decision maker, think how kelly's offense works and apply that to Vick, if hes a bad decision maker kellys offense will be a bad fit. Kellys offense is a giant eqaution, the qb has to make multple reads very quickly something vick isnt good at, this is why you dont need a fast mobile qb for these types of offense, decision making is a key element.
    so what was asked of him, since you know?

    so in one argument you say CK needs a mobile qb and this post says you dont...hmmm
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    completely different discussion and this point wasnt what i was referring to.

    nice try but no.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    so what was asked of him, since you know?

    so in one argument you say CK needs a mobile qb and this post says you dont...hmmm

    where did I did I say he NEEDS a mobile qb? please qoute the whole post not 1 line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    fit for what? have you seen kellys NFL offense? no, you havent. so how do you know Nassib would be a good fit? Kelly doesnt need a mobile qb. he didnt have one every year at Oregon.
    i was saying CK doesnt need a mobile qb..

    Quote Originally Posted by rugger48 View Post
    LOL

    kelly is running pretty much the same offense he ran at oregon, barkley ran a prostyle offense and nassib ran read option his last year. Now your just being ridiculous. Hes not going to change his bread and butter, lol
    this post is suggesting Nassib would be a good fit because he ran the read option and that is what CK will be doing, according to you
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    huh, yes because Nassib has run that type of offense before. How can I put it better, nassib ran a read option offense before, therefore would it make sense for a qb who has run a paticular type of offense to be in a similiar offense again. I never said Kelly needs a Mobile qb, I said that he needs a good decision making qb that at least some atheletic ability.



    There is a reason why

    Kaep
    wilson
    Griffin


    did very well there first year, they have natural raw talent(extending a play,running on a option,etc) alonq with good decision making.

    a good example of this is SF with alex smith and SF with Kaep, The difference being the offense runs better with a atheletic qb with good decision making skills then with a qb with good decision making skill that manages a game. Ask any San Fransico fan who would they rather have under center.




    remember this all started with your claim that hes a top 3 qb, he is not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    You are lookin at one side of the ball. D was terrible which took away the eagles running game. Its easy to defend the passes when u know its coming
    I'm talking about his history when I was talking about running and throwing. In Atl, he was invited to pass he was so bad. He just looked like a baller at times because he can run. I was stating why through his whole career he has had only ONE real good year. Prior to that, his biggest claim to fame was running 1000 yards for a QB. Not my goal if I'm supposed to be passing the ball.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryane87 View Post
    I'm talking about his history when I was talking about running and throwing. In Atl, he was invited to pass he was so bad. He just looked like a baller at times because he can run. I was stating why through his whole career he has had only ONE real good year. Prior to that, his biggest claim to fame was running 1000 yards for a QB. Not my goal if I'm supposed to be passing the ball.
    I agree. That's why reid screwed up when trying to make him a pure pocket passer. As far as chip and his system, and you can find quotes from ck himself, that he doesn't have a system. He creates his scheme based on his personnel. This is why he doesn't need a mobile qb. Sure its always better to have some mobility for the threat of the read option, but if he isn't mobile, chip won't make him run a true read option scheme
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    I agree. That's why reid screwed up when trying to make him a pure pocket passer. As far as chip and his system, and you can find quotes from ck himself, that he doesn't have a system. He creates his scheme based on his personnel. This is why he doesn't need a mobile qb. Sure its always better to have some mobility for the threat of the read option, but if he isn't mobile, chip won't make him run a true read option scheme
    I never payed enough attention to college football to make a determinent about CK. I thought if he tried to strictly run his offense from Oregon, the Eagles would be in trouble. He strikes me as a smart man the more I have heard from him and I don't think he needs an extremely mobile quarterback to run his offense, whatever it may be. Case in point, he drafted Matt Barkley. Not to be confused with any read option QB. That's why I think Vick's days are numbered and there will not be a magical redo of '10. I think either Foles or Barkley is coming out of that competition in the end with Vick and maybe Dixon if he decides to keep him as wrinkles to the offense, especially in the red zone where you have a shorter field and you need to give the D something to think about.
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