Another Hockey Thread...Ovechkin v Crosby

[tribaltek]

Seven games is good for the NHL, TV, revenues, etc... but I can't say it's good for my blood pressure

Neither team has looked like itself while playing away, but playoffs are unpredictable, so you never know what might happen.

While I did believe Pitts was going to lose Saturday before the puck even dropped, I didn't think they were going to self-destruct in the fashion they did. I was quite happy to see the box score...

Malkin - 6 PIM, 1 SOG
Crosby - 1 SOG, -2 rating

I think game 6 is going to be a good one!!!

[Mulletsoldier]

I thought the script of this series was going to follow the one written by the Penguins in their series against Washington - and so, I thought they were going to win last night. The psychological boost of getting Datsyuk back was obviously large, and then another defender to put on Malkin. Obviously, though, momentum means jack shit in this series, as Detroit responded beautifully from being dominated two straight games in Pittsburgh. As I said, being a home series it really now comes down to either team needing a road win to close out the series.

[tribaltek]

As Mike Babcock has said multiple times this playoff year "I don't buy into momentum". I really think he's right.

Having Datsyuk and Zetterberg (both Selke caliber forwards) gives Babcock the option to roll Z with Crosby and Datsyuk with Malkin, or if Bylsma decides Crosby and Malkin need to be out together most the game (which I suspect), we can go with Z and Datsyuk on the same line.

Either way, don't expect as much free play for your two stars Tuesday night. While I don't think they'll be relegated to 2 combined shots like they were last night, I don't believe they're going to combine for 4 points again like they did games 3 and 4.

Lets do it again fellas!

[AZMIDLYF]

Best of three series with two games in Detroit....I'll take the Wings!

[Mulletsoldier]

As Mike Babcock has said multiple times this playoff year "I don't buy into momentum". I really think he's right.

Having Datsyuk and Zetterberg (both Selke caliber forwards) gives Babcock the option to roll Z with Crosby and Datsyuk with Malkin, or if Bylsma decides Crosby and Malkin need to be out together most the game (which I suspect), we can go with Z and Datsyuk on the same line.

Which is unlikely, as Babcock publicly stated that the frenzy to line-match with Bylsma ruined chemistry between the other lines, and resulted in poor play on Zetterberg's behalf. Babcock will most likely stick Henrik on Crosby, but not as patently as he had the previous four games [showed again in Game 5]. The only match-up he seems keen on sticking with is Lidstrom/Rafalski on Crosby's line.

Either way, don't expect as much free play for your two stars Tuesday night. While I don't think they'll be relegated to 2 combined shots like they were last night, I don't believe they're going to combine for 4 points again like they did games 3 and 4.

Lets do it again fellas!

We will see. Crosby and Malkin's play in this series, when it has been poor, is more a function of self-destructing rather than sound defensive play, as Malkin was the leading point-getter in the series irrespective of whom was defending him, and Crosby was generating a lot of chances - free ice or not, the great ones find a way to get it done. I think you are over-estimating the defensive play of Detroit in game five, and underestimating the Penguins' team meltdown. Crosby and Malkin will be fine.

Now, if both Malkin and Crosby show up, and Staal's line dominates down-low again, you may as well trade that picture of Draper [Franzen?] in above for a nice black-and-gold clad one. Detroit simply cannot hang with Pittsburgh's center-core, and that showed in game four. Again, though: that's why they play.

[tribaltek]

That's Draper holding the cup, big guy

Your arguments hold value, but as you stated, that's why they play. We can talk all we want about what "should" happen, but that doesn't translate to a cup (or else Detroit would have taken a cup in '96 when they had 62 regular season wins).

My prediction (using last years photos) -

[tribaltek]

Best of three series with two games in Detroit....I'll take the Wings!

Uhh... if you made this statement Friday it would have been true

It's 3-2, Wings lead, with one game at each arena remaining.

[Mulletsoldier]

That's Draper holding the cup, big guy

Your arguments hold value, but as you stated, that's why they play. We can talk all we want about what "should" happen, but that doesn't translate to a cup (or else Detroit would have taken a cup in '96 when they had 62 regular season wins).

My prediction (using last years photos) -

Thanks for the clarification, champ.

[tribaltek]

Does anyone else find it interesting that the finals started off with 3 games in 4 nights, but now we have a two day layoff? While the time off can (hopefully) only help the Wings further recover from their injuries, I think I got spoiled by the sheer amount of hockey in a limited time frame.

What the hell am I going to watch next week when hockey is over?

[tribaltek]

I got a question for you, Mullet.

Five times (and not since 2003) the Conn Smyth trophy has been awarded to a member of the losing team in the Stanley Cup Finals. Assuming Pitts loses, do you think Malkin should be awarded the trophy?

He currently has 14 goals, 21 assists, 3 game winners, and 99 SOG. Nobody on the Wings roster has stats close to that.

If a Red Wing is to take the trophy, I think the only way it would be fair (to Pitts) is to give it to Osgood (15-6, 2.00 GAA, .927 SV, 2 SO).

Your thoughts?

[Mulletsoldier]

I got a question for you, Mullet.

Five times (and not since 2003) the Conn Smyth trophy has been awarded to a member of the losing team in the Stanley Cup Finals. Assuming Pitts loses, do you think Malkin should be awarded the trophy?

He currently has 14 goals, 21 assists, 3 game winners, and 99 SOG. Nobody on the Wings roster has stats close to that.

If a Red Wing is to take the trophy, I think the only way it would be fair (to Pitts) is to give it to Osgood (15-6, 2.00 GAA, .927 SV, 2 SO).

Your thoughts?

Well, it depends on how you consider the Conn Smythe to be awarded - that is, as the "playoff MVP" or the "finals MVP". With 31 points and 15 goals, Crosby's scoresheet looks incredibly similar, and he has been far more consistent throughout the playoffs; a better "all around player", so to speak. If Crosby were to pick it up through the next two games, and Pittsburgh wins, he should by rights garner the trophy. The collective memory in the sports world is short and only tangible: Crosby has played better in all aspects throughout this run.

Even with that being said, though, Malkin has not done enough to deserve the award on a hypothetically losing team: his performance has not been awe-inspiring like a Giggy several years ago v., NJ; and I would say the same for Sid.

While you and I could tandem goalie for the Wings and win the William Jennings trophy, I agree the CS would go to Osgoode in the event of a Wings win.

[tribaltek]

I haven't seen much of Pitts besides the finals, so I'll take your word on Crosby's performance throughout the entire playoffs. I knew he had similar stats, but if anything, hockey is a sport that does not reflect the entire game on a box score.

While you and I could tandem goalie for the Wings and win the William Jennings trophy

In any other season I might agree with you, but we've been extremely porous this year. We (Detroit) wondered all year if we would even make it this far because of our defense this season. It has not been good. Luckily we ended up scoring a lot of goals, otherwise our record would have been much worse.

[Mulletsoldier]

I haven't seen much of Pitts besides the finals, so I'll take your word on Crosby's performance throughout the entire playoffs. I knew he had similar stats, but if anything, hockey is a sport that does not reflect the entire game on a box score.

Let me tell you, tribal: Sid has been unbelievable. He has scored the opening or go-ahead goal more times for his team than any other in the playoffs; he has been stellar on face-offs [up until now]; incredible defensively, and; most importantly, he has led this team. The fact that, in a head-to-head duel, he out-scored Ovechkin while playing a more dominating and defensively sound game after not being nominated for the Hart is fantastic in-and-of-itself.

In any other season I might agree with you, but we've been extremely porous this year. We (Detroit) wondered all year if we would even make it this far because of our defense this season. It has not been good. Luckily we ended up scoring a lot of goals, otherwise our record would have been much worse.

I suppose that is true: Detroit has been letting in a ton of goals, compared with previous years. That being said, Ty Conklin still ran up a fantastic record with Detroit, and he is, by rights, a terrible goalie [ran out of Edmonton, for example]. While most of the greatest goalies ever had fantastic defenses [Brodeur in NJ; Dryden in Montreal] Detroit's particular style of play means any schmuck can win there, and win big.

[tribaltek]

Sounds like I should have caught more of the Pitts-Wash series. I did catch pieces of two games. I didn't realize Crosby had stepped up his defensive game as much as you state. From everything I always read about him, he's a one-dimensional player (offense only). He can move the puck very well, and he holds the puck as well as anyone in the game (even during those 360's into the offensive zone).

I wish Crosby and Malkin a great future in the NHL. I think they'll be great together for quite some time (assuming Malkin doesn't jump ship for a huge paycheck). I think Sid will forever be a Penguin. He was the face of the franchise as soon as he put on that first sweater.

30 hours until game time!

[Mulletsoldier]

No, Sid is incredibly multi-dimensional. He is one of the only superstars who will block a shot in the defensive zone, chip the puck in to the offensive zone, dig at it from the half-boards and then manage to still make a pretty offensive play. He is physical, an amazing passer, great leader, can play a grind-and-dig game, great backhand, and can be a prolific scorer! I feel the Wash-Pit series displayed why, above Malkin and OV, Sid is the best player in the game: he does it all, literally. To be truthful, I would place Datsyuk over Ovechkin anyway, but that is me!

[tribaltek]

I would take Datsyuk over Ovie as well (especially an uninjured Datsyuk).

I'll keep a close eye on Crosby. My favorite players have always been all-around players, doing all of the things you described above. I've been lucky to see this with Yzerman, Datsyuk and Zetterberg on a consistent basis. Man I miss watching Yzerman

Yahoo! Sports just posted an article on why Malkin should win the Conn Smythe - http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,168669

[Mulletsoldier]

For one, Malkin's no defensive powerhouse, and despite scoring all those points, he's only a plus-2 after 22 games. He also doesn't kill penalties and hasn't been getting the most difficult opposition as teams focus on Crosby.

He's also tied with Joni Pitkanen(notes) and Joe Corvo(notes) for having been on the ice for the most 5-on-5 goals against of any player, and has a GA/60 of 3.35, second highest on the Pens. Crosby's, in comparison, is just 2.22, while Zetterberg is at 1.39.

Here is what I meant! Crosby, FTW.

[Mulletsoldier]

Crosby is unequivocally better all-around. Put it this way: Crosby is effective even when he does not score; if Malkin does not score, he is nonexistent.

[tribaltek]

Definitely see why you prefer Crosby over Malkin with all of that said. If you kill penalties, you're always a better player in my book.

[Mulletsoldier]

Definitely. As I said, you can watch Crosby play and say, "Man, he had a great game!", even when he does not score. IMO, this was the case in game one! Malkin, on the other hand, either scores or he does not score, and that is his game. This is why Crosby always > Malkin.