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Another Hockey Thread...Ovechkin v Crosby

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    Seven games is good for the NHL, TV, revenues, etc... but I can't say it's good for my blood pressure

    Neither team has looked like itself while playing away, but playoffs are unpredictable, so you never know what might happen.

    While I did believe Pitts was going to lose Saturday before the puck even dropped, I didn't think they were going to self-destruct in the fashion they did. I was quite happy to see the box score...

    Malkin - 6 PIM, 1 SOG
    Crosby - 1 SOG, -2 rating

    I think game 6 is going to be a good one!!!

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    I thought the script of this series was going to follow the one written by the Penguins in their series against Washington - and so, I thought they were going to win last night. The psychological boost of getting Datsyuk back was obviously large, and then another defender to put on Malkin. Obviously, though, momentum means jack shit in this series, as Detroit responded beautifully from being dominated two straight games in Pittsburgh. As I said, being a home series it really now comes down to either team needing a road win to close out the series.
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    As Mike Babcock has said multiple times this playoff year "I don't buy into momentum". I really think he's right.

    Having Datsyuk and Zetterberg (both Selke caliber forwards) gives Babcock the option to roll Z with Crosby and Datsyuk with Malkin, or if Bylsma decides Crosby and Malkin need to be out together most the game (which I suspect), we can go with Z and Datsyuk on the same line.

    Either way, don't expect as much free play for your two stars Tuesday night. While I don't think they'll be relegated to 2 combined shots like they were last night, I don't believe they're going to combine for 4 points again like they did games 3 and 4.

    Lets do it again fellas!

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    Best of three series with two games in Detroit....I'll take the Wings!
    Always open light. Itís not what you open with, itís what you finish with. Louie Simmons
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    Quote Originally Posted by tribaltek View Post
    As Mike Babcock has said multiple times this playoff year "I don't buy into momentum". I really think he's right.

    Having Datsyuk and Zetterberg (both Selke caliber forwards) gives Babcock the option to roll Z with Crosby and Datsyuk with Malkin, or if Bylsma decides Crosby and Malkin need to be out together most the game (which I suspect), we can go with Z and Datsyuk on the same line.
    Which is unlikely, as Babcock publicly stated that the frenzy to line-match with Bylsma ruined chemistry between the other lines, and resulted in poor play on Zetterberg's behalf. Babcock will most likely stick Henrik on Crosby, but not as patently as he had the previous four games [showed again in Game 5]. The only match-up he seems keen on sticking with is Lidstrom/Rafalski on Crosby's line.

    Either way, don't expect as much free play for your two stars Tuesday night. While I don't think they'll be relegated to 2 combined shots like they were last night, I don't believe they're going to combine for 4 points again like they did games 3 and 4.

    Lets do it again fellas!
    We will see. Crosby and Malkin's play in this series, when it has been poor, is more a function of self-destructing rather than sound defensive play, as Malkin was the leading point-getter in the series irrespective of whom was defending him, and Crosby was generating a lot of chances - free ice or not, the great ones find a way to get it done. I think you are over-estimating the defensive play of Detroit in game five, and underestimating the Penguins' team meltdown. Crosby and Malkin will be fine.

    Now, if both Malkin and Crosby show up, and Staal's line dominates down-low again, you may as well trade that picture of Draper [Franzen?] in above for a nice black-and-gold clad one. Detroit simply cannot hang with Pittsburgh's center-core, and that showed in game four. Again, though: that's why they play.
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    That's Draper holding the cup, big guy

    Your arguments hold value, but as you stated, that's why they play. We can talk all we want about what "should" happen, but that doesn't translate to a cup (or else Detroit would have taken a cup in '96 when they had 62 regular season wins).

    My prediction (using last years photos) -







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    Quote Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF View Post
    Best of three series with two games in Detroit....I'll take the Wings!
    Uhh... if you made this statement Friday it would have been true

    It's 3-2, Wings lead, with one game at each arena remaining.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tribaltek View Post
    That's Draper holding the cup, big guy

    Your arguments hold value, but as you stated, that's why they play. We can talk all we want about what "should" happen, but that doesn't translate to a cup (or else Detroit would have taken a cup in '96 when they had 62 regular season wins).

    My prediction (using last years photos) -
    Thanks for the clarification, champ.
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    Does anyone else find it interesting that the finals started off with 3 games in 4 nights, but now we have a two day layoff? While the time off can (hopefully) only help the Wings further recover from their injuries, I think I got spoiled by the sheer amount of hockey in a limited time frame.

    What the hell am I going to watch next week when hockey is over?
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    I got a question for you, Mullet.

    Five times (and not since 2003) the Conn Smyth trophy has been awarded to a member of the losing team in the Stanley Cup Finals. Assuming Pitts loses, do you think Malkin should be awarded the trophy?

    He currently has 14 goals, 21 assists, 3 game winners, and 99 SOG. Nobody on the Wings roster has stats close to that.

    If a Red Wing is to take the trophy, I think the only way it would be fair (to Pitts) is to give it to Osgood (15-6, 2.00 GAA, .927 SV, 2 SO).

    Your thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tribaltek View Post
    I got a question for you, Mullet.

    Five times (and not since 2003) the Conn Smyth trophy has been awarded to a member of the losing team in the Stanley Cup Finals. Assuming Pitts loses, do you think Malkin should be awarded the trophy?

    He currently has 14 goals, 21 assists, 3 game winners, and 99 SOG. Nobody on the Wings roster has stats close to that.

    If a Red Wing is to take the trophy, I think the only way it would be fair (to Pitts) is to give it to Osgood (15-6, 2.00 GAA, .927 SV, 2 SO).

    Your thoughts?
    Well, it depends on how you consider the Conn Smythe to be awarded - that is, as the "playoff MVP" or the "finals MVP". With 31 points and 15 goals, Crosby's scoresheet looks incredibly similar, and he has been far more consistent throughout the playoffs; a better "all around player", so to speak. If Crosby were to pick it up through the next two games, and Pittsburgh wins, he should by rights garner the trophy. The collective memory in the sports world is short and only tangible: Crosby has played better in all aspects throughout this run.

    Even with that being said, though, Malkin has not done enough to deserve the award on a hypothetically losing team: his performance has not been awe-inspiring like a Giggy several years ago v., NJ; and I would say the same for Sid.

    While you and I could tandem goalie for the Wings and win the William Jennings trophy, I agree the CS would go to Osgoode in the event of a Wings win.
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    I haven't seen much of Pitts besides the finals, so I'll take your word on Crosby's performance throughout the entire playoffs. I knew he had similar stats, but if anything, hockey is a sport that does not reflect the entire game on a box score.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    While you and I could tandem goalie for the Wings and win the William Jennings trophy
    In any other season I might agree with you, but we've been extremely porous this year. We (Detroit) wondered all year if we would even make it this far because of our defense this season. It has not been good. Luckily we ended up scoring a lot of goals, otherwise our record would have been much worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tribaltek View Post
    I haven't seen much of Pitts besides the finals, so I'll take your word on Crosby's performance throughout the entire playoffs. I knew he had similar stats, but if anything, hockey is a sport that does not reflect the entire game on a box score.
    Let me tell you, tribal: Sid has been unbelievable. He has scored the opening or go-ahead goal more times for his team than any other in the playoffs; he has been stellar on face-offs [up until now]; incredible defensively, and; most importantly, he has led this team. The fact that, in a head-to-head duel, he out-scored Ovechkin while playing a more dominating and defensively sound game after not being nominated for the Hart is fantastic in-and-of-itself.

    In any other season I might agree with you, but we've been extremely porous this year. We (Detroit) wondered all year if we would even make it this far because of our defense this season. It has not been good. Luckily we ended up scoring a lot of goals, otherwise our record would have been much worse.
    I suppose that is true: Detroit has been letting in a ton of goals, compared with previous years. That being said, Ty Conklin still ran up a fantastic record with Detroit, and he is, by rights, a terrible goalie [ran out of Edmonton, for example]. While most of the greatest goalies ever had fantastic defenses [Brodeur in NJ; Dryden in Montreal] Detroit's particular style of play means any schmuck can win there, and win big.
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    Sounds like I should have caught more of the Pitts-Wash series. I did catch pieces of two games. I didn't realize Crosby had stepped up his defensive game as much as you state. From everything I always read about him, he's a one-dimensional player (offense only). He can move the puck very well, and he holds the puck as well as anyone in the game (even during those 360's into the offensive zone).

    I wish Crosby and Malkin a great future in the NHL. I think they'll be great together for quite some time (assuming Malkin doesn't jump ship for a huge paycheck). I think Sid will forever be a Penguin. He was the face of the franchise as soon as he put on that first sweater.

    30 hours until game time!
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    No, Sid is incredibly multi-dimensional. He is one of the only superstars who will block a shot in the defensive zone, chip the puck in to the offensive zone, dig at it from the half-boards and then manage to still make a pretty offensive play. He is physical, an amazing passer, great leader, can play a grind-and-dig game, great backhand, and can be a prolific scorer! I feel the Wash-Pit series displayed why, above Malkin and OV, Sid is the best player in the game: he does it all, literally. To be truthful, I would place Datsyuk over Ovechkin anyway, but that is me!
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    I would take Datsyuk over Ovie as well (especially an uninjured Datsyuk).

    I'll keep a close eye on Crosby. My favorite players have always been all-around players, doing all of the things you described above. I've been lucky to see this with Yzerman, Datsyuk and Zetterberg on a consistent basis. Man I miss watching Yzerman

    Yahoo! Sports just posted an article on why Malkin should win the Conn Smythe - http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,168669
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    For one, Malkin's no defensive powerhouse, and despite scoring all those points, he's only a plus-2 after 22 games. He also doesn't kill penalties and hasn't been getting the most difficult opposition as teams focus on Crosby.

    He's also tied with Joni Pitkanen(notes) and Joe Corvo(notes) for having been on the ice for the most 5-on-5 goals against of any player, and has a GA/60 of 3.35, second highest on the Pens. Crosby's, in comparison, is just 2.22, while Zetterberg is at 1.39.
    Here is what I meant! Crosby, FTW.
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    Crosby is unequivocally better all-around. Put it this way: Crosby is effective even when he does not score; if Malkin does not score, he is nonexistent.
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    Definitely see why you prefer Crosby over Malkin with all of that said. If you kill penalties, you're always a better player in my book.
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    Definitely. As I said, you can watch Crosby play and say, "Man, he had a great game!", even when he does not score. IMO, this was the case in game one! Malkin, on the other hand, either scores or he does not score, and that is his game. This is why Crosby always > Malkin.
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    90 minutes Mullet! I'm excited as ****! I think this is going to be the closest game of the series. Can't wait for the puck to drop!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Crosby is unequivocally better all-around. Put it this way: Crosby is effective even when he does not score; if Malkin does not score, he is nonexistent.
    Crosby is a baby and will never be a leader on his team until he learns to control his temper. Find one other captain of a winning team that throws tantrums like Crosby does. If the coach had a set of balls, Ferdenko(sp?) would be wearing the "C"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman1800 View Post
    Crosby is a baby and will never be a leader on his team until he learns to control his temper. Find one other captain of a winning team that throws tantrums like Crosby does. If the coach had a set of balls, Ferdenko(sp?) would be wearing the "C"
    If we were talking about Crosby in his first year, what you said would be true - as of now, it is flat-out incorrect. However, you are welcome to watch the game tonight and point instances where he "whines", as I would like to see them. The fact is, when 20-year veterans like Guerin watch 45 minutes of tape on Crosby's request, do it gladly, and then marvel at how mature Sid is, his leadership becomes self-evident. The entire team stands behind Crosby, and he gets them to do so based on his work ethic, and the nature and consistency in his play. As well, the fact that Mark Messier personally selected Sid for a monthly leadership award in '06-'07 [Brendan Shannahan, Roberto Luongo, Scott Niedermayer, and Vincent Lecalvalier were the other monthly winners that year] and has nominated him again this year speaks further against your point. It is a common criticism against Crosby that is simply invalidated if you actually watch him play. Is it fair to assume you do not watch the Penguins regular season game, and have not payed particular attention to them this post-season? I mean no offense by that, but really the only people who continue to call Sid a whiner either: a) do not watch hockey as a whole, or; b) do not watch Sid specifically.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tribaltek View Post
    90 minutes Mullet! I'm excited as ****! I think this is going to be the closest game of the series. Can't wait for the puck to drop!
    Oh I know, ha ha. I am leaving to get food, and then never again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    If we were talking about Crosby in his first year, what you said would be true - really the only people who continue to call Sid a whiner
    I have been watching hockey since probably before you were born. He has been taking stupid penalties all series long. He may have played well in the prior series but now that he is up against players that are of his caliber, he gets frustrated and is acting like a child. Game 1 at the end? Most of game 5? You think he played like a leader?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman1800 View Post
    I have been watching hockey since probably before you were born. He has been taking stupid penalties all series long. He may have played well in the prior series but now that he is up against players that are of his caliber, he gets frustrated and is acting like a child. Game 1 at the end? Most of game 5? You think he played like a leader?
    That very well may be true, and aside from the fact my age has nothing to do with watching a game, that is fine and dandy; however, it ultimately does not change the fact that Crosby is not a whiner. Also, Crosby has only had one penalty in the series, which was during a blowout game on Saturday. And those two instances are also fine, and we could run through the instances in which Zetterberg, Maltby and Kronwall were slash n' grabbing throughout game four, but there is no point because instances are not always indicative of a player's general style of play. What I would point to, instead, is blocking shots, sound defensive play, increasing his physical play, and so on.

    I actually payed special attention to Sid's demeanor with the referees and teammates this year, to see if my bias was maybe clouding my vision - to my end, I saw maybe a handful of instances where Sid jabbered; no more than any other player, mind you. As I said though, you can post some instances in this thread from tonight's game where you feel he fits your bill, so to speak, because I would like to see them; off the top of my head, I can really think of no examples this post-season where Sid "whined". And if it is such an endemic trait to his persona as you say, that would be an easy task - like thinking of a OV goal, a Kronwall hit, a Kane deek and so on.

    Really, this is no longer a point of contention in his game when viewed from an objective viewpoint. It stands as a criticism that was valid at one time, but no longer holds true; and so, it stands as a criticism that remains a talking point amongst individuals who dislike Sid for the exposure he receives - which I understand - or among people who do not watch Sid play, specifically. The Messier Leadership Awards, and the likelihood that Steve Yzerman - one of the greatest leaders of all-time and the director of Hockey Canada - will don Crosby a letter on a team chalk full of captains [us Canadians are renowned for our leadership] both speak volumes for his leading ability. And finally, if he was as big of a whiner and as little of a leader as you make it seem, we would hear about it, undoubtedly, from reports in the locker room: to date, most of Crosby's teammates have absolutely glowing reviews of the kid.

    He is not a whiner, he is a leader, and I am going to watch the game.
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    Might as well have given the refs hockey sticks on that 60 minute 7-on-5 Pens power play...

    Whatever... Hoisting the Cup at home after the refs have done all they could to give the Pens the series will make it even sweeter.
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    Now that I've calmed down a little, I will admit Detroit played like ****. But I stand by my comments above about the refs. Blatantly one-sided in every game but game 5, with this game taking the cake. Ridiculous...
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    Quote Originally Posted by tribaltek View Post
    Now that I've calmed down a little, I will admit Detroit played like ****. But I stand by my comments above about the refs. Blatantly one-sided in every game but game 5, with this game taking the cake. Ridiculous...
    Well, how about we will call it even given the massive penalty Hossa got away with to put the Wings up 2-1 in Game 2 and turn the momentum. The penalties have been called almost evenly, and the referees generously allowed Chris Osgood to carry on a three minute delay of game due to a, "mask issue". They have also let Kronwall leap from his feet on every hit, Zetterberg get liberal with his stick on Crosby, and so on. The refereeing has been poor on both sides of 140ft, so I would say you are getting worked up over nothing. Pens in 7, and revenge on your home ice!
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    Isn't going to happen, man. Wings will clinch, regardless of what Gary Bettman wants
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    We will see! Pens have already clinched a series after going down 0-2 this year, and the last team to win a Cup after being down 0-2 ['71 Canadiens, I believe] did so on the visitor's ice! I wish there was not a two day wait, but it will be a great game either way.
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    Well man, I'd wish your team luck... but I'm spoiled, and want a 5th cup in 12 years... so RED WINGS FTW!

    It's going to feel like a damn week until the puck drops...

    Next week will begin me watching old hockey games on DVD. I have game 7 of the 2002 West conf. finals on DVD. Wings -vs- Avalanche. We won 7-0. Oh... I was at the game too It's great having one of the biggest blowouts in playoff history on DVD, but it's even better when you get to relive it again by viewing it!

    It's time for the Wings to get the DYNASTY title they've deserved...

    WE WILL WIN GAME 7!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tribaltek View Post
    Well man, I'd wish your team luck... but I'm spoiled, and want a 5th cup in 12 years... so RED WINGS FTW!

    It's going to feel like a damn week until the puck drops...

    Next week will begin me watching old hockey games on DVD. I have game 7 of the 2002 West conf. finals on DVD. Wings -vs- Avalanche. We won 7-0. Oh... I was at the game too It's great having one of the biggest blowouts in playoff history on DVD, but it's even better when you get to relive it again by viewing it!

    It's time for the Wings to get the DYNASTY title they've deserved...

    WE WILL WIN GAME 7!!!
    I taped the Penguins' absolute dismantling of the Capitals in Game 7 on my DVR, as I thought it would be an epic game.
  34. All Traps - No Tris
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    They did hand Wash their asses that game. I thought it'd be a hell of a lot closer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tribaltek View Post
    They did hand Wash their asses that game. I thought it'd be a hell of a lot closer.
    As did I! I severely doubt the same type of outcome in this game. Truth be told, I will need some Pepto Bismol. Obviously, the odds are against Pittsburgh's favor, but it also depends how you interpret that statistics: 12/14 home teams have won game sevens, but only a handful of the teams that lost those away game sevens tied the series at 2-2 - several went down 3-1. There is also the matter of teams winning game five, and blah blah. The series has taken such an odd turn in terms of stats, that they cease to matter any longer. We have two teams, who have both played phenomenally at home: for Detroit to win, they need more of the same; for Pitt to win, they need to buck a trend.

    I am ridiculously excited, and will not begrudgingly hand over that NP certificate if I must! The series itself is well-worth $25.
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    I too have the bottle of Pepto ready for Friday night. Unfortunately I may miss the first 5 mins of the game because I have to work late Friday (uggghhh), but I assume the other 55 minutes of the game will be enough to make up for it.

    I can't make any predictions on what will transpire, but I do know there are two teams one win away from the Stanley Cup, and that in itself is downright amazing. I don't know about you man, but personally, no other sporting event can compare to a game 7 Stanley Cup Final game to me (regardless of who is playing). The Super Bowl can't even hold a candle to it.

    Only 50 hours til game time!
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    I absolutely could not agree more. No other sport has to endure the severity and length of an NHL season and post-season combined. As a bye team, you have to win two games to be the champion, and, at most, three games. That is less than 25% of the season at maximum. If each of your rounds went to the maximum amount, you would have to play twenty-eight hockey games to win the cup - 38% of an entire season! And, in terms of the grinding physicality of the game, no other sport has to endure the things hockey players do to hoist that cup. IMO, it is the most-respected championship, or should be, in all of sports.
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    I couldn't even begin to explain how many times I've had to stick of for hockey in the "Football is more physically demanding than hockey" debate.

    Really? All, what, 19 games for the Super Bowl champs? And as you stated, 28 games are possible in the NHL playoffs. Lets just say an average of 25 games, and an average of 78 regular season games played for the typical Stanley Cup winning forward or defenseman. So 103 games to win everything in hockey, and 19 games to win everything in football. But football is more physically demanding? HAH! Lets see a linebacker suddenly play five times more than he ever has during a season, and then maybe it'd be a valid argument.

    And this deep in the playoffs... EVERYONE is nursing an injury of some sort. Hockey players have balls of steel. They get back in the game when sometimes they really shouldn't. They have heart like no other. They're a model for a real professional athlete.
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    You said it, brother. Well, I have spoken to everybody about it, and we want to make you an honorary Canadian.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    You said it, brother. Well, I have spoken to everybody about it, and we want to make you an honorary Canadian.
    This 2-day layoff is killing me. I keep thinking that the game is tonight, but it's not. The extra day really favors Detroit, especially since it takes away from Pitt's momentum, but in a game 7, you never know. Oddly, and this is what makes hockey so special, this is the 5th game 7 this decade in the cup finals ('01, '03, '04, '06, '09).
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  

  
 

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