DHEA and Havoc

[celc5]

Dsade, I've seen you suggest it in a random thread and Trauma in the FAQ to run DHEA alongside havoc to combat potential libido issues.

Please confirm or correct my logic: epithios have the potential to irradicate estrogen, which may cause a drop in libido. DHEA has the potential to convert to estrogen. This conversion offsets the strong anti-estrogenic properties of the epithio therefore salvaging libido. Is this correct?

The issue that I have with this theory is that several other compounds which DO aromatize to estrogen also have a reputation for decreasing libido. In which case, it would be poor logic to "blame" low estrogen levels on a dwindling ON cycle libido. Any thoughts?

 

[Trauma1]

Dsade, I've seen you suggest it in a random thread and Trauma in the FAQ to run DHEA alongside havoc to combat potential libido issues.

Please confirm or correct my logic: epithios have the potential to irradicate estrogen, which may cause a drop in libido. DHEA has the potential to convert to estrogen. This conversion offsets the strong anti-estrogenic properties of the epithio therefore salvaging libido. Is this correct?

The issue that I have with this theory is that several other compounds which DO aromatize to estrogen also have a reputation for decreasing libido. In which case, it would be poor logic to "blame" low estrogen levels on a dwindling ON cycle libido. Any thoughts?

You raise a good question. However, in havoc's case, its ability to suppress estrogen seems to vary among users. Some people report libido loss, while others don't. You do need a decent amount of estrogen to maintain adequate libido.

Based on both my personal experience as well as user feedback, adding in DHEA has nipped the problem in the bud with both myself, as well as most people that present with this issue. So if i was to make a well educated guess, i would certainly say that havoc's estrogen suppression factors can certainly be attributed the cause of libido loss in some users.

It is really tough to pinpoint the exact cause of a libido issues with other compounds and their ability to aromatize. Not to mention the fact that many people that are taking an aromatizeable substance(i.e Testosterone) are also taking an A.I. Very often they can conveniently forget to metion that. I think anyone that's ever taken test before can agree to the fact that you're one horny mofo.

In all honesty celc, i take what i read most of the time with a grain of salt. Not to insult people here at all, but i'm a man of science myself and like to see the proven theories/results. There are WAY TOO many unknowns when reading on these forums to draw any truly accurate conclusions.

 

[celc5]

Good points Trauma.

I respond really well to typical AI's in terms of libido, which is part of what created the confusion for me.

I want to be sure I'm setting myself up for a successful cycle. So please continue to interpret my questions as being inquisitive, rather than putting your product on trial :cheers:

Is there any bloodwork floating around on any of the boards to actually show lowered estrogen during/immediately after a Havoc cycle?

How is havoc on lipids? Broski-lore says it's mild in that regard but I'd rather hear your thoughts on that one. I'll have plenty of fish oils in the mix but would rather steer clear of niacin if I could get away without it. I think I'll probably use Torem in pct as well which I would expect to have a greater impact on HDL than niacin.

 

[Trauma1]

Good points Trauma.

I respond really well to typical AI's in terms of libido, which is part of what created the confusion for me.

I want to be sure I'm setting myself up for a successful cycle. So please continue to interpret my questions as being inquisitive, rather than putting your product on trial :cheers:

Is there any bloodwork floating around on any of the boards to actually show lowered estrogen during/immediately after a Havoc cycle?

How is havoc on lipids? Broski-lore says it's mild in that regard but I'd rather hear your thoughts on that one. I'll have plenty of fish oils in the mix but would rather steer clear of niacin if I could get away without it. I think I'll probably use Torem in pct as well which I would expect to have a greater impact on HDL than niacin.

I absolutely enjoy the intelligent questions and conversations with you celc. I think it's good that you stimulate conversations like this. I may not have all the answers to all of the questions, but if i don't know, i can always find out for you.

I make it a point not to bullsh*t knowledge or be fake with people. Working in medicine for this long i know how much i hate seeing doctors and nurses do it to patients.

I've always received a good libido boost from A.I. use initially myself, but it always falls off over time. I attribute this effect due to the initial boost in test resulting from some estro suppression, however there is still enough endogenous estrogen present to support that enhanced libido effect of elevated test.

As estrogen becomes more suppressed, i believe that's when many begin to lose that great libido effect from A.I. use.

 

[celc5]

I make it a point not to bullsh*t knowledge or be fake with people. Working in medicine

Yes sir, THESE are the reasons I wanted your opinion.

I agree with the AI's. I respond well to the typical AI's but see some drop off after about 3 weeks. I'm thinking that's about the same time period where I expect libido to take a hit with epithios.

Any thoughts on the bloodwork questions concerning estrogen and lipids?