NOxidant Write-Up

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  1. Cool thanks man!


  2. [QUOTE=Trauma1;1361316]
    Quote Originally Posted by Good Shepherd View Post



    Very good input. That abstract i found very interesting and am looking into finding more complete text studies with similar info.

    I agree that taking Antioxidants pre-workout/intra-workout may further contribute to amplifying cell signaling and overall NO(nitric oxide) produced effects. Not to mention how the first abstract i posted demonstrates how lowered levels of ROS/NOS contribute to more forcefull skeletal muscular contractions overall.....think of the benefits in that alone.

    This exerpt from the abstract you responded to is what i find very refreshing:

    Free radical interactions will also influence NO signaling. One of the consequences of reactive oxygen species generation is to reduce NO concentrations. This antagonizes the signaling of nitric oxide and in some cases results in converting a cell-cycle arrest profile to a cell survival profile. The resulting reactive nitrogen species that are generated from these reactions can also have biological effects and increase oxidative and nitrosative stress responses. A number of factors determine the formation of NO and its concentration, such as diffusion, consumption, and substrate availability, which are referred to as kinetic determinants for molecular target interactions.

    Plus one of the benefits of taking in Antioxidant therapy is your body stores many of them for later use. By upkeeping those stores it absolutely further contributes to a healther and more anabolic state overall.

    Curious about the inclusion of the apple polyphenols, why were these selected?
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  3. [QUOTE=Good Shepherd;1361770]
    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post


    Curious about the inclusion of the apple polyphenols, why were these selected?
    Apple Polyphenols are one of THE highest ORAC compounds in existence, especially effective in their interaction with the NO system - causing an equilibrium and increase in NO effectiveness, as well as quenching of Reactive Nitrogen Species:

    Apples increase nitric oxide production by human saliva at the acidic pH of the stomach: A new biological function for polyphenols with a catechol group?

    Laura Peria, Donatella Pietrafortea, Giuseppe Scorzaa, Aurora Napolitanob, Vincenzo Foglianob and Maurizio Minettia, Corresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author

    aDepartment of Cell Biology and Neuroscience, Istituto Superiore di Sanità, Viale Regina Elena 299, 00161 Roma, Italy

    bDipartimento di Scienza degli Alimenti, Parco Gussone, 80055 Portici, Napoli, Italy

    Received 21 February 2005;
    revised 22 April 2005;
    accepted 22 April 2005.
    Available online 12 May 2005.

    Purchase the full-text article



    References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.

    Abstract

    Dietary inorganic nitrate is secreted in saliva and reduced to nitrite by bacterial flora. At the acidic pH of the stomach nitrite is present as nitrous acid in equilibrium with nitric oxide (radical dotNO), and other nitrogen oxides with nitrating and nitrosating activity. radical dotNO in the stomach exerts several beneficial effects, but nitrosating/nitrating species have been implicated as a possible cause of epithelial neoplasia at the gastroesophageal junction. We investigated the effects of apple extracts on radical dotNO release by human saliva at pH 2. A water extract obtained from apple homogenate increased radical dotNO release caused by acidification of saliva. Data show that polyphenols were responsible for this activity, with chlorogenic acid and (+)-catechin the most active and concentrated species. However, ferulic acid, a hydroxycinnamic acid with only one aromatic hydroxyl group, did not increase radical dotNO release. Fructose, the most representative sugar in apples, was also inactive. Interestingly, ascorbic acid in saliva induced a SCN–-enhanced burst of radical dotNO but, unlike apple, the release was transient. The simultaneous addition of ascorbic acid and apple extract caused a burst of radical dotNO followed by the increased steady-state level characteristic of saliva containing apple extract. Chlorogenic acid and (+)-catechin, but not ferulic acid, formed o-semiquinone radicals and nitrated polyphenols, suggesting the scavenging of radical dotNO2 by o-semiquinones. Our results propose that some apple polyphenols not only inhibit nitrosation/nitration but also promote radical dotNO bioavailabilty at the gastric level, a previously unappreciated function.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  4. [QUOTE=dsade;1361815]
    Quote Originally Posted by Good Shepherd View Post
    Apple Polyphenols are one of THE highest ORAC compounds in existence, especially effective in their interaction with the NO system - causing an equilibrium and increase in NO effectiveness, as well as quenching of Reactive Nitrogen Species:

    Apples increase nitric oxide production by human saliva at the acidic pH of the stomach: A new biological function for polyphenols with a catechol group?

    Laura Peria, Donatella Pietrafortea, Giuseppe Scorzaa, Aurora Napolitanob, Vincenzo Foglianob and Maurizio Minettia, Corresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author

    aDepartment of Cell Biology and Neuroscience, Istituto Superiore di Sanità, Viale Regina Elena 299, 00161 Roma, Italy

    bDipartimento di Scienza degli Alimenti, Parco Gussone, 80055 Portici, Napoli, Italy

    Received 21 February 2005;
    revised 22 April 2005;
    accepted 22 April 2005.
    Available online 12 May 2005.

    Purchase the full-text article



    References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.

    Abstract

    Dietary inorganic nitrate is secreted in saliva and reduced to nitrite by bacterial flora. At the acidic pH of the stomach nitrite is present as nitrous acid in equilibrium with nitric oxide (radical dotNO), and other nitrogen oxides with nitrating and nitrosating activity. radical dotNO in the stomach exerts several beneficial effects, but nitrosating/nitrating species have been implicated as a possible cause of epithelial neoplasia at the gastroesophageal junction. We investigated the effects of apple extracts on radical dotNO release by human saliva at pH 2. A water extract obtained from apple homogenate increased radical dotNO release caused by acidification of saliva. Data show that polyphenols were responsible for this activity, with chlorogenic acid and (+)-catechin the most active and concentrated species. However, ferulic acid, a hydroxycinnamic acid with only one aromatic hydroxyl group, did not increase radical dotNO release. Fructose, the most representative sugar in apples, was also inactive. Interestingly, ascorbic acid in saliva induced a SCN–-enhanced burst of radical dotNO but, unlike apple, the release was transient. The simultaneous addition of ascorbic acid and apple extract caused a burst of radical dotNO followed by the increased steady-state level characteristic of saliva containing apple extract. Chlorogenic acid and (+)-catechin, but not ferulic acid, formed o-semiquinone radicals and nitrated polyphenols, suggesting the scavenging of radical dotNO2 by o-semiquinones. Our results propose that some apple polyphenols not only inhibit nitrosation/nitration but also promote radical dotNO bioavailabilty at the gastric level, a previously unappreciated function.
    Nice, I would assume most of the active compound be found in the skin?

  5. [QUOTE=Good Shepherd;1361820]
    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Nice, I would assume most of the active compound be found in the skin?
    Correct, as with most anti-oxidants. Polyphenols in general are active in coloring (which makes perfect sense, honestly, given their function.)
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless
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  6. So now it's okay to take NOxidant preworkout? My reasoning, however flawed it may be, was that it would prevent NO from forming more potent pro-oxidants which would reduce ROS induced damage. Perhaps wrongly, I assumed that the increased pump was an indication that there was less conversion of NO to peroxynitrite or other oxidants. But then I've been told that ROS induced damage is necessary to muscle growth so I'm actually inhibiting my gains by taking it pre. This is all so confusing.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Wanderlei View Post
    So now it's okay to take NOxidant preworkout? My reasoning, however flawed it may be, was that it would prevent NO from forming more potent pro-oxidants which would reduce ROS induced damage. Perhaps wrongly, I assumed that the increased pump was an indication that there was less conversion of NO to peroxynitrite or other oxidants. But then I've been told that ROS induced damage is necessary to muscle growth so I'm actually inhibiting my gains by taking it pre. This is all so confusing.
    We're honing in on the absolute best recommendation and I am currently experimenting with a LOWER DOSE preworkout.

    There is evidence of a sweet spot equilibrium that will prevent excessive formation, while still allowing maximum messenger signaling to trigger growth.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Wanderlei View Post
    So now it's okay to take NOxidant preworkout? My reasoning, however flawed it may be, was that it would prevent NO from forming more potent pro-oxidants which would reduce ROS induced damage. Perhaps wrongly, I assumed that the increased pump was an indication that there was less conversion of NO to peroxynitrite or other oxidants. But then I've been told that ROS induced damage is necessary to muscle growth so I'm actually inhibiting my gains by taking it pre. This is all so confusing.
    We've been doing a ton of research on this as of late. It would seem that the best time to take this product is actually before bed at night. You do want a degree of ROS/RNS induced damage after a workout to trigger new muscle growth.

    It would seem in the research that i've done that allowing for this to happen and then halting free radicals in their tracks before their damage effects outweigh the benefits. The majority of information and evidence i've seen supports this approach.

    As far as taking it pre-workout, more research needs to be done. I would think that a milder dose early on in the day could help keep ROS/NRS in check and actually produce better workout results/muscle damage as a result. (See one of the abstracts above about lowered ROS/RNS and increased muscle contraction) This would allow for a greater amount of muscle damage and subsequent free radical formation to enhance the fact. Following that up with a dose a night would seem to be the last piece of the enhanced anabolic puzzle.

    More research to be done, but the theory holds a lot of promise in my mind.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  9. Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  10. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    That's a good chart...interesting to note is NO's reaction with iron to exert effects.

    I wonder how many people with ED have their iron levels checked?
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  11. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    That's a good chart...interesting to note is NO's reaction with iron to exert effects.

    I wonder how many people with ED have their iron levels checked?
    I thought the same thing. It would seem to be a big factor in enhanced effect.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  12. For all those people that don't understand how Nitric Oxide is a cell signaling molecule, here you go:

    http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/nov251998/articles10.htm

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  13. As far as taking it pre-workout, more research needs to be done. I would think that a milder dose early on in the day could help keep ROS/NRS in check and actually produce better workout results/muscle damage as a result. (See one of the abstracts above about lowered ROS/RNS and increased muscle contraction) This would allow for a greater amount of muscle damage and subsequent free radical formation to enhance the fact. Following that up with a dose a night would seem to be the last piece of the enhanced anabolic puzzle.

    This pre bed dose is a very good idea. In fact the smaller dose early in the day will support the pre bed dose. I think you can look at dosing this type of product like maintaing a postive nitrogen balance. Steady doses of protein throughout the day will work much better then haphazard meals and/or a few big protein doses.
    This type of product can be viewed in the same way. smaller steady dosing will keep the antioxidants available when they are needed. Remember, these can be stored to some extent, so what isnt stored may be excreted. Now of course there will be ideal times to take this. Prebed, post work out etc. It all depends on circumstance.
    It seems that people get caught up to much in semantics, especially w/ supplements. People asking about the science of cell expression and nitric oxide production and get confused about it are often the ones that to just need to follow the directions on the label and then see what works best for them.
    In reality, would you get confused about the best time to have an apple, some blueberries and an orange would be - probably not.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Good Shepherd View Post
    This pre bed dose is a very good idea. In fact the smaller dose early in the day will support the pre bed dose. I think you can look at dosing this type of product like maintaing a postive nitrogen balance. Steady doses of protein throughout the day will work much better then haphazard meals and/or a few big protein doses.
    This type of product can be viewed in the same way. smaller steady dosing will keep the antioxidants available when they are needed. Remember, these can be stored to some extent, so what isnt stored may be excreted. Now of course there will be ideal times to take this. Prebed, post work out etc. It all depends on circumstance.
    It seems that people get caught up to much in semantics, especially w/ supplements. People asking about the science of cell expression and nitric oxide production and get confused about it are often the ones that to just need to follow the directions on the label and then see what works best for them.
    In reality, would you get confused about the best time to have an apple, some blueberries and an orange would be - probably not.
    Good post. I agree that the dose before bed would seem to be the most beneficial overall. The thing is, you don't want to completely destroy free radicals, you just want to keep their numbers in check.

    I think that a small dose early in the day would help potentiate better results in the end myself. If this theory of slightly decreased ROS/RNS prior to workout does in fact contribute to better overall muscle contractions, this would equate to more significant muscle damage and subsequent hypertrophy in the end. However this is largely dependent on the anabolic environment remaining stable.

    By taking this pre-bed dose it should shut down any extended damaging free radical effects after they've served their overall purpose of enhancing muscle growth during the post-workout setting.

    We're working on figuring out the most optimal timing for desired effects. Thusfar, this would seem to be the best method of attack.
    Last edited by Trauma1; 06-18-2008 at 11:38 PM.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  15. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Good post. I agree that the dose before bed would seem to be the most beneficial overall. They think is you don't want to completely destroy free radical, you just want to keep their numbers in check.

    I think that a small dose early in the day would help potentiate better results in the end myself. If this theory of slightly decreased ROS/RNS prior to workout does in fact contribute to better overall muscle contractions, this would equate to more significant muscle damage and subsequent hypertrophy in the end. However this is largely dependent on the anabolic environment remaining stable.

    By taking this pre-bed dose it should shut down any extended damaging free radical effects after they've served their overall purpose of enhancing muscle growth during the post-workout setting.

    We're working on figuring out the most optimal timing for desired effects. Thusfar, this would seem to be the best method of attack.
    Any thought to delivery systems for the product? like something might buffer stomach acid ....

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Good Shepherd View Post
    Any thought to delivery systems for the product? like something might buffer stomach acid ....
    looking at several approaches, so far the absorption data is inconclusive so we're not sure it is necessary yet.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  17. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    looking at several approaches, so far the absorption data is inconclusive so we're not sure it is necessary yet.
    I was always intereested in either a muti or a antoxidant formula that was done in an effervesant deliver system. I understand it would be difficult to package a product like this and keep it stable. But still interested none the less.

    Im very interested in the pre workout formula you mentioned in an earlier post, dsade. I hope its not a kitchen sink product filled w/ unnecessary stims...ie noexplode

  18. Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  19. I'm still doing a lot of research on this guys. I'm holding strong at this point in taking the NOxidant 3 capsule dosing before bed. Much of the research i've found points to this dosing approach for best effects.

    I would like to hear any feedback also from those who have already been taking NOxidant for roughly a months time.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  20. Just ordered two bottles of this goodness in a cap... (along with some DCP and poseidon)

    I was just wanting to know, is there any problem in taking this long term (ie, should it be cycled to maintain effectiveness) or not?

    cheers guys, between you and USP labs I don't have any cash left.... gits

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
    Just ordered two bottles of this goodness in a cap... (along with some DCP and poseidon)

    I was just wanting to know, is there any problem in taking this long term (ie, should it be cycled to maintain effectiveness) or not?

    cheers guys, between you and USP labs I don't have any cash left.... gits
    Taking this everyday would be very beneficial overall. It helps your body maintain adequate stores of anti-oxidants that in itself has SOO many benefits. Let us know how everything goes.

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  22. sure thing boss...

    Should live to about 130 if i keep taking it, right?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy;
    ...

    Should live to about 130 if i keep taking it, right?
    Wrong! 150!
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