AndroDrive + AndroHard for 1st PH cycle
- 12-12-2011, 09:43 AM
AndroDrive + AndroHard for 1st PH cycle
Have so many questions ahh, where to start.
I've decided that at my age of 33 I should take not just my life but now also my body in my own hands and not wait for my body functions to just go south.
So this Thursday I'm gonna get my blood check for hormones cause I suspect despite having a lot of body hair, that my testosterone to estrogen ratio is not good.
I've read all weekend about how to raise testosterone levels (have tried few natural testosterone and libido boosters like Tongkat Ali, Yohimbine HCL and Maca but this are very mild in effect and duration) and by what I read on this and few other forums, I came to conclusion that in order to get concrete testosterone jump in your body that actually last more than few hours, the way to do this is through new generation of PH like Androhard.
I have to tell you I've never before did any serious weight lifting (did start this summer for like 2x/week for 20' in my basement but pure amateur try).
Now probably many of you will say, if you never did serious weight lifting to just stick with natural testosterone supplements, diet and recreational weight lifting but I did this in summer and gains were noticable but very weak and certainly not for more then few days (and even this may be a lot of a placebo effect).
What my reason behind starting this thread is, getting few suggestions from PP representatives or other board members that were in the past in my shoes - starting on new road of lifting their age related dropping of testosterone levels.
I want to start my cycle with either just Androdrive at 3caps/day or start right away combo AD 3x/day + AH 3x/day.
I'd start my cycle around Dec 28th 2011 for 4 weeks then 2 weeks PCT using PP's testosterone recovery stack (TCF-1, SA, EM, T8) and then another 2 weeks of taking nothing.
This would mean another blood test 8 weeks from Day 1 of the cycle which would be Feb 22nd 2012 and if test come back OK (no damage to my body + sustained elevated testosterone level) then maybe I start with 2nd cycle.
My goal with this cycle is not to get huge transformation and walk around with big muscles and vein popping out but to look in shape - reducing my belly fat to actually show 6pack and get a bit bigger muscle but still looking relatively normal.
Also I don't have so much issues with libido - I'd say I have an average libido but would like to have that teenage level libido where looking at hot girl was enough to get a boner and I could also use an additional boost in erection quality during intercourse (who doesn't when things are going south cause of age).
I have now 2 weeks left to get all the info I can get before starting this cycle AD or AD + AH.
Please, share your suggestion and advice if my current set plan of cycle length, dosage or even used supplements is good or what needs to be changed.
Like I said have so many question so for this 1st post let this be enough from me.
- 12-12-2011, 10:10 PM
I would immediately say that you don't need to jump on cycle, and you probably would appreciate some gains from taking the gym a bit more seriously first, however, I know from experience you will probably go for it anyway, so I will provide my advice. I would go straight into Drive/Hard. At the reduced dosage, you are not looking at much in terms of sides, and you will see better results than 3 caps of Drive alone.
- 12-13-2011, 02:02 AM
Thx for a reply.
I'll go get hormonal blood test tomorrow and will post results here and then you all can comment if I go for AH/AD cycle or just do gym/diet and testosterone recovery stack as a natural testosterone booster.
I do want to be responsible with what I put in my body and on the other hand I do want to see how my body's effect to mild PH so yeah, want to try AH/AD but will take all your advices very seriously.
Also bought yesterday a blood pressure measuring machine and it shows 118/77 and heart beat at 68 and will monitor this every day of my cycle.
My weight of 74kg (163lb) at 1.78m (5f10) is also in normal BMI range.
Will do my personal log on my computer every day and probably do a summary on this forum every 5 days when I start my cycle in around 2 weeks from now.
As far as I'm reading from all PH this AH/AD at 3caps/day for 4 or 6 weeks cycle should have enough for PCT just OTC like TRS cause I really don't want to put in my body SERMs or AI.
Your comments and suggestions are most welcomed.
12-14-2011, 10:09 PM
The TRS will be perfect for that cycle. Glad to see you are taking proper precautions.
12-15-2011, 08:33 AM
Got my blood test results by mail today.
Blood test made on Dec 14th 2011 at 7:53am
Here we go (in brackets are "normal" values):
AST: 0.43 (up to 0.58)
ALT: 0.64 (up to 0.74)
CK: 1.96 (up to 2.85)
Urea: 5.3 (2.8-7.5)
Creatinin: 98 (59-104)
Total cholesterol: 4.1 (4.0-5.2)
Triglycerides: 0.9 (0.6-1.7)
HDL cholesterol: 1.4 (more than 1.4)
LDL cholesterol: 2.4 (2.0-3.5)
CRP: <5 (up to 5)
GFR: 77 (above 100 ml/min/1,73 square meter)
total PSA: 0.5 (up to 4.0)
Estradiol: 33.62 (7.63-42.59 pg/mL)
Testosteron: 431 (280-800 ng/dl) or 4.31 (2.8-8.0 ng/mL)
Progesteron: 1.16 (0.2-1.4 ng/mL)
FSH: 3.40 (1.5-12.4 mIU/mL)
LH: 4.31 (1.7-8.6 mIU/ml)
Prolactin: 14.06 (4.1-18.4 ng/mL)
Cortisol: 746.6 (171.0-536.9 nmol/L in the am)
Results actually confirmed my suspection that I have low testosterone level for my age of 33 - only fricking 431 ng/dl (where average is around 670).
I also did Androstat test that showed 536 which correctly predicted that I'm in Maintenance zone (401-550).
What surprised me the most is GFR (glomerular filtration rate) of 77 which actually indicates of a level 2 (mild) chronic kidney disease hmm.
Also cortisol is too high.
Other measurement are in normal values but then again also testosterone level is indicated as normal from 280-800 so I put in bold tests that came in lower or higher normal levels.
Maybe excessive aromatisation could explain lower testosterone levels that causes more production of estradiol - which stimulates more production of prolactin and both are trying to be regulated by increased production of progesterone.
Also borderline (low) levels of cholesterol that body converts to testosterone could explain lower levels of testosterone cause I don't eat a lot of saturated fat.
If this could be the explanation (I guess I made few wrong assumptions) then taking AndroHard with his effect on converting into DHT and acting also as an aromatase inhibitor, mild SERM and lowering estrogen levels could actually be what I need to lift my testosterone levels.
Maybe my testosterone and cortisol measurement could be affected by fact I went to bed 2h sooner than normal, had to go to toilet at 4am and couldn't go back to sleep and I had to wake up at 5am to drive almost 2h to the lab where I did blood work (driving in traffic could increase my cortisol levels and waking up 2h earlier than usual could also cause my testosterone levels fluctuation up to 20% hmm).
But still GFR is worrying even though values above 60 are still not alarming.
Will do another blood work 2 or 3 months from now.
Please comment on my blood results, possible cause of this results and if you advice to go with AndroHard + AndroDrive cycle for 4 to 6 weeks at 3 caps/day each then for PCT with only TRS.
I also have I3C capsules at home so I think taking them like 2 days on then 1 day off could be good already now or in PCT hmm?
12-18-2011, 08:44 PM
I honestly am not familiar enough with GFR to give a recommendation on it. Seeing a doctor would be your best choice.
12-19-2011, 02:02 AM
Thx for all your replies (weird only 1 person replying in my thread but better than nothing).
Should get AH and AD on this Wednesday if everything goes smoothly at my custom or else I'll just go with TRS & gym workout.
In 2-3 months I'll do another blood work and then I'll see what's with this GFR value (was consuming Tongkat Ali & Maca and 1 more herbal libido booster for 2 months prior to taking this blood work so they could effect kidney performance... who knows).
12-19-2011, 03:28 AM
Very interesting blood work and research done there. Good job sir.
12-21-2011, 12:14 AM
12-21-2011, 07:00 AM
Looks like my custom will clear AH and AD today or tomorrow so should get them tomorrow or this Friday.
Due to holidays coming I'll probably take my 1st dose of AH+AD at 3caps/day each on Monday or Tuesday.
Then no more excuses why not signing up at my local fitness center (run by ex world fitness champion hmm) and go to gym 2-3x/week for 1h.
For PCT with TRS v2 I'm actually thinking to also add PES Erase since my blood work showed high cortisol level and higher normal values of estradiol and prolactin. Will think about this after 2 weeks on AH+AD cycle.
Yesterday got Sunwarrior's Black rice protein powder and tried it instead of lunch and today as breakfast with green tea+ginger+curcuma and 0.6g of omega-3 softgel and this hold me great until lunch.
This would be my supplements for my 1st cycle starting probably on Dec 27th 2011:
3-6 weeks cycle of AD+AH at 3caps/day each taken around 7am
- breakfast at 8-8.30am
- 9.30 preworkout drink 4g of Citrulline Malate or 2g CM + 3g AAKG mixed with water
- gym 2-3x/week for 1h from 10-11am
- during and after workout in gym drinking 3-5g of Creatine Creapure
- after workout Sunwarrior's Black rice powder 1 scoop (16g of protein) mixed in water
- as afternoon meal another rice powder in water
- taking 1 softgel of omega-3 at 3x/day with meal
PCT would then last 50% of cycle time so 2-3 weeks with PP's TRS v2 topical and maybe also adding PES Erase.
Thinking to also add some multivitamin like Total Balance from Xtend-Life but waiting now almost 2 weeks to get 2 other products from them since they ship stuff from New Zealand.
I do try to eat every day at least 1 kiwi, tangerine and an orange + dry plums or figs and almonds, pistachios and/or brazil nuts and put half a lemon in my green tea.
This is why I'm not to crazy about taking multivitamin pills but on cycle at least I should take them.
I'm not trying to get big in muscle department just to improve my overall quality of life - feel more energetic, motivated, lose some belly fat, pack some muscles and improve my hormone levels (especially test/est ratio and test/cortisol ratio).
I know for not such radical change in physique I could achieve similar effects with just going to gym and changing my diet but with testosterone at 431 and estradiol at 34 I doubt I can make serious changes in my muscle mass and belly fat just from amateur level of weight lifting.
Not to mention lack of motivation to do all this on your own in cold, dark winter in Europe when you wake up at -7 Celsius.
Probably made few mistakes going in this 1st PH cycle but I gotta start somewhere in changing my current level of my life.
12-23-2011, 06:29 AM
Got my AH, AD and TRS stack after being held 3 days at the custom so now this is it, no more excuses.
In 4h from now I should be in a gym ready to sign up at my local fitness center.
Read instructions that were in the box and it says it's advisable to be doing a workout program 45 days prior to start taking Androseries.
I guess I won't wait that long but will take my first dose of maybe 1 caps each of AH+AD on Monday Dec 26th and then go to gym on Tuesday when I'll take 2caps each.
A bit bad timing due to holidays since in my first 10 days of starting working out in a gym, I have 2x of 2 days of holidays when I can't go to the gym.
I took my pre cycle pics yesterday and shockingly my side pics reveal relatively big belly (and I thought what a handsome guy I am hehe).
Will be interesting comparing these pics after 3 weeks in gym.
12-24-2011, 06:27 AM
Started today with my 1st dose of AH+AD at 2 caps each and did 40' arms exercises.
Didn't lift weight for over 4 months and even then it was more of an amateur attempts with bench, barbell and dumbbells in my attic.
Went yesterday to my local fitness center and no instructor there cause I didn't made an appointment.
So today I just moved bench to the basement where is warm enough to do exercises at home - at least until holidays are over to go to fitness center.
It's my 1st day so can't really feel anything significant or if I would it would probably be cause of placebo effect and me not lifting weight in 4 months.
Did notice my BP went up when I measured in the morning 20' after taking AH+AD and is now actually in normal 123/80 level - cause usually my BP is around 110/70.
12-26-2011, 07:22 AM
Current summary after 3 days.
day 1: AH+AD at 2 caps each and 50' exercise of arms and incline barbell curls
day 2: AH+AD at 3 caps each and 30' exercise of legs (arms hurting from day 1)
day 3: AH+AD at 3 caps each and no exercise but did 55' walk outside on 3 degrees Celsius. (arms hurting from day 1)
After 3 days feel no change in anything - strength, libido, even BP is more or less unchanged, only feel pain in arms from day 1 (after 4 months of no weight lifting).
Not even a placebo effect hmm.
Have to say in summer when I was just taking Tongkat Ali I felt change around day 5 in aggression when doing weight lifting and also positive change in libido and biceps/triceps volume in few weeks also increased by half an inch.
Will probably stay this 1st week of AH+AD at 3 caps each OR maybe go up to 4 caps each or 5-4 or 6-3.
12-28-2011, 01:50 AM
Lots of detail, love it. As for the not feeling anything in 3 days, give it time, it will hit
12-28-2011, 07:18 AM
Day 4 AH+AD at 4 caps each, felt a bit sick in head in the morning and due to still medium pain in biceps/triceps from day 1 exercise, I've decided to have 2nd day in a row of rest. In the afternoon felt a bit sleepy so rested in bed for 15' for 2x but in the evening started working on new project and kind of a had the energy and didn't even felt sleepy at my usual time in bed.
Day 5 today AH at 5 caps and AD 3 caps and did 50' exercise for chest, shoulders and back but went very light with weights cause my biceps/triceps still hurt from day 1.
Today feel a bit less tired or sleepy compared to first 4 days but still no real significant effects from AH+AD.
Only noticeable change in this 5 days is me gaining 3 pounds but this could also be due to me taking creatine every day and drinking around 3-4 liters (6-9 pounds) of water every day.
12-28-2011, 09:08 AM
Good thread goin here
Always willing to learn :D
12-28-2011, 09:28 PM
12-28-2011, 10:12 PM
- 5'10" 220 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
Late, but subbed.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
12-28-2011, 10:17 PM
- 5'10" 183 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
I always thought my natural test was low, had it checked dr said it's ok....Originally Posted by ahh123
I can't grow a beard at all & I started to get bodily hair very late in life....
12-30-2011, 05:59 AM
Day 6 took AH 5 caps and AD 3 caps.
Was leg exercise day which went great, actually start doing barbell squats and was afraid how to lift above my head with triceps hurting 5 days but to my big surprise after 5' pain in arms completely went away. This allowed me to do all exercises at my 100% strength compared to what I was lifting in summer when I only took Tongkat Ali. Worked on a new project behind PC which I usually turn off around 7pm but tonight I went straight for 3h until 9pm hmm. But then again when I start with new project, time just flies so don't know to give this credit to AD or not.
Day 7 (today) took AH 5 caps and AD 3 caps.
Rest day, feeling nice pain in thighs from yesterday's exercise, pain in arms also completely gone. Went for a 55 minute walk.
Summary after taking AH+AD for 7 days:
Beside now lifting at my personal record I still don't feel any real effect from taking AH+AD.
Also, 3h after taking AH+AD, their concentration in blood should be highest - like 500% above my normal testosterone level but I don't feel any jump in aggression, strength or increase in libido.
Occasionally I do feel like a light tingling in balls and dick do appear to be more full in flaccid state but even this effect can't compare to some natural test boosters where such effect is much stronger.
So far after 7 days I feel similar things as in summer when I just did good diet, exercise and taking Tongkat Ali.
And 1 more weird thing - when I was taking Tongkat Ali I got few acne on face and on shoulders after taking it for 5 days but with AH+AD after taking them for 7 days ZERO acne.
It feels like participating in a study where I was given a placebo pills hmm.
Will stay for 2 more days on AH at 5 caps and AD at 3 caps/day and then at day 10 will go to AH at 6 caps and AD at 3 caps/day for maybe 5 more days.
If no significant improvement after 15 days, then I'll probably stop taking AH+AD and see how much success I'll have with TRS v2.
12-30-2011, 10:40 AM
Don't give up on it, I'm sure it will kick in. Give it time most people really notice around day 14. Just keep pushing on through man
Always willing to learn :D
12-30-2011, 10:47 AM
- 5'10" 183 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
The hardest part is waiting for something to "kick in".
We need prescription style supplements lol.
01-02-2012, 07:24 AM
Day 8 AH at 5 caps and AD at 3 caps, arms exercise went good, feel good energy during exercise but went with lighter weights.
Day 9 AH at 5 caps and AD at 3 caps, rest
Day 10 (today) AH at 6 caps and AD at 3 caps, chest shoulders back exercise, not feel same level of energy as 2 days ago. Taking half of the time to change weights in my basement cause I only have bench, barbell and dumbbell with 4 different weights to put on.
Still looking the perfect weights for me to lift so some exercise are to light on my muscles and some just right or borderline to to much.
Also can't do all exercise from AH booklet cause simply I'm limited with only a bench in my basement.
- still no extra effect that AH should give - no extra aggression, strength, libido.
- what I do notice is more calm energy through the day and I feel like I'm not tired at all, also appetite is now lowered but this could be maybe cause I'm eating now more or less same supplements every day.
- it feels like AD is already kicked in for few days now with calm energy and what would usually made me angry is now like not worth me getting angry about - like counter aggressiveness.
- or could all just be a placebo effect and this stuff just don't work on me
Maybe I do this AH+AD combo for 2 more days then if no effect from AH, I go at day 13 with just AH at 6 caps a day for 5 days.
Feels like AD at 3 caps/day would totally shut down AH effect at 5 caps/day hmm (this of course being just my speculation).
01-02-2012, 07:48 AM
Give it time man, it should start up soon, you bought it so you might as well keep going with it
Always willing to learn :D
01-02-2012, 06:41 PM
I would stick it through. "kick in" time can be longer for some than others, and you are only 10 days in.
01-04-2012, 09:37 AM
Day 11 AH+AD at 6+3 caps, rest day, still no extra effect in aggression, strength or alpha male mentality.
But did notice more blood in genitals area and harder erections hmm. Didn't feel sleepy but maybe cause night before I spent 11h sleeping hmm.
Day 12 (today) AH+AD at 6+3 caps, compound exercise lifting barbell from ground above my head 50x 90 pounds in 10 minutes (haven't done this weight or this exercise in 4 months). Was hard at around 41x but no pain in muscles or any problem with joints.
Even more spontaneous erections when thinking on something that turns me on but no other effect like extra aggression or strength.
Summary: looks like AD is kicking in nicely with good mood and energy through out the day but AH still no real effect of being aggressive or extra strong.
01-06-2012, 11:11 AM
Day 13 AH+AD at 6+3 caps, rest day, still no extra effect in aggression, strength or alpha male mentality.
Day 14 (today) AH+AD at 6+3 caps, 50' arms exercise. Felt at some times during 50' exercise that I have even less strength than compared to 6 days ago when I did last arms exercise.
This could be due to 2 days before doing a compound exercise at my personal record weight and maybe muscles were still a bit tired.
Barbell curls 4th set I only ended at 6 reps (while 6 days ago at 8 reps).
Felt no aggression, strength or alpha male mentality during 50' exercise and this at day 14 hmm.
Summary: really don't know if this AH+AD is working on me or not cause beside better erection quality, heavier balls and bigger flacid state I experience 0 effect from what AH should deliver.
Regarding AD I do feel more energy, being calm, sleep is also better, and I'm even less irritated by usual stuff so this I started noticing around day 9. At around this time better quality of erections started to happen.
Now I'm thinking to maybe stop this cycle today at day 14 due to not getting desired results - especially what AH should deliver by this time.
2nd alternative would be to try 1 more week only AH at 6 caps a day or stick for 1 more week with AH+AD at 6+3 caps/day.
Really hard for me to push something for more than 2 weeks with such minimal effects - so far it really do feel like I'm just taking placebo.
01-06-2012, 07:34 PM
The better erections to me sounds like a sign that it is working. What is your diet like? That could be why you are not seeing the strength gains maybe you need more protein or carbs? I know when ever I take something that cuts my appetite (like androdrive does) I feel weaker because I have a hard time getting in all my calories.
01-06-2012, 08:11 PM
Everybody has different substances that work better for them, and some that do nothing whatsoever....I know I get all the sides on tren and not much benefit, also test doesn't do much for me to be honest....but deca and winstrol/any DHT works great for me. Maybe you do not respond well to DHT? its possible. or like others have stated maybe your diet or training leaves something to be desired. But either way you need to run the full course of the cycle....you never know when the gains/positives will pop up. maybe they won't, but you already paid for it....might as well use it. if it were giving you sides AND not working for you...then OK, stop. But with no real sides may as well keep going.
01-06-2012, 08:25 PM
- 5'10" 183 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Happened to me on p-magOriginally Posted by bigdavid
01-07-2012, 01:47 AM
I'll stick for few more days with AH+AD at 6+3 since
really no point in this stack going to waste since spent so much money on it.
01-07-2012, 01:51 AM
Im kinda curious how your workout is planned out and what your diet looks like. What exactly did you want to take out of this cycle..some sort of recomp? Im starting androhard tomorrow so stick with this cycle and Ill be sure to pop in and tell you if I feel any changes going on with me we can compare notes
01-07-2012, 02:28 AM
Also eat same as before - only 4x a day with only lunch being big meal so I think I don't get enough calories in my body.
Also when weight lifting I don't really push myself as hard as I could but this is due to limited equipment and weights.
My goal was to lose belly fat and get more energy and improved mood as well as getting that alpha male status that comes with extra aggression and strength.
I do notice improvement in energy, mood, better sleep, feel like lost some belly fat (but still not enough to see any 2 or 4pack on belly) BUT no significant increase in strength or aggression.
After 6 days even increased appetite went back to normal level and all this time no acne.
I think most people should get better results than me if they approach this stack with better diet and weight lifting program at max of their abilities.
But still not feeling real effect in aggression or strength department 3h after taking AH+AD at 6+3 (which should be equivalent to 500% and more increase in testosterone level) is really not what I've expected even with less than perfect diet and lifting program.
Will stick with this stack for few more days (max until day 20).
01-07-2012, 11:37 AM
I think that is the problem......your diet. Do you count your protein? I bet its sorely lacking with eating only 4X per day. You may not even be getting your bodyweight in protein, nevermind 1.5 or double it. As far as the training at home, I do it and people are surprised I workout at home since I look pretty decent (most assume a gym is necessary to attain anything in this game). I will admit I have the usual bench with DB's and BB's, but also have a leg press and cable machine (lat/tri basically). Not "basic", but maybe mid-level. You just have to wake up and do it every day, not be lazy since you are at home.....and train intelligently and as intense as possible. Training should not be any excuse either, just a bench and DB's and BB's are all that is necessary really. The basic movements are some of the best. I think some of these things are the reasons for not making the gains you wanted, but they should not really be excuses. You should have had the diet on point before spending the money on expensive supps. Count your calories and protein for us for one day, let us know. look at the packages or online at a calorie counter site to get the numbers.
01-07-2012, 12:21 PM
- 5'10" 183 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
I'm only take in my bodyweight I'm proteinOriginally Posted by WARBIRDWS6
Sometimes 20gs or so over. I think I may try and get 60-70g over I weight 185....
01-07-2012, 12:45 PM
01-07-2012, 12:51 PM
- 5'10" 183 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
I got BCAA too...Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6
How much do u drink?
I berm getting like 200 guess I'll up it lol.
01-07-2012, 01:49 PM
01-08-2012, 11:52 PM
Glad to see you sticking it out, hope things turn around for you.
01-09-2012, 12:37 PM
Stopped AH+AD cycle at day 16 cause no significant effect on aggression or strength.
Today started 8 days of PCT with TRS stack.
Summary: did feel some changes in area of increased energy and being less irritated, also erection quality improved and balls actually felt bigger and heavier and sperm volume was also above average.
But no real feel in aggression or strength and definitely no alpha male feeling.
Maybe I did few mistakes with this cycle going in with 4 month break in weight lifting and not eating enough cause only had 2 real meals and 2 meals that were more a snack meal.
Also didn't really push myself really hard or long when lifting weights.
By posting my bloodwork before starting my cycle, you can see my hormones are not in good ratio one vs another so this could also play a role in me not really responding to this cycle.
Also my blood pressure was more or less entire day around 104/70 with heart rate around 66.
Maybe I run this same cycle again in 3 months or not.
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