Flying in the face of reason - Cycle
- 12-29-2010, 07:20 AM
Flying in the face of reason - Cycle
I chose to log this here rather than the Anabolics forum as 1) Aside from AI's Cycle Support it will all be Primordial Performance products and 2) All in all most folks in here are helpful. 3) The Primordial Reps are some of the best I have seen and have helped me SUBSTANTIALLY (Rosie and Here To Study stand out in my personal quest).
I am a 42 year old family man that decided to get back into shape about 2 years ago. I lifted a good bit in HS (LONG AGO) and learned that my genetic predisposition was for cut up skinnyish guy. 2 years ago I dropped about 30 / 35 pounds and sat at 170ish on a 5' 10" frame. I put on some muscle through a much better diet and training as well as a natural LG Natadrol cycle (I did love it). I hit a brick wall and through a few various posts ran into some advice from Rosie that everyone has heard over and over but I finally LISTENED TO... DIET, DIET, DIET.
I have tweaked my diet a good bit and added the calories I found I was severely lacking (did not know that till I tracked it). Again, thanks for the kick in the butt Rosie!!!! In the last few months I have added weight simply by eating and strive for a 40/40/20 (carb - protein - healthy fats) macro split. at times it looks more like a 50 for carbs with the fat taking the hit.
What i learned is that I am NOT a "hard gainer". I can put weight on rather easily. Unfortunatly no matter how clean I eat, it seems to be the belt line that gains it quite readily. Abs vanish and love handles appear. I am ingesting approx 3000-3200 calories a day now through 6 to 7 meals. Drinking at least a gallon of water, most days more.
Training is a modified Dorian Yates "blood and guts" focused on intensity (1 minute rests) and more sets of slightly higher reps. What I lack in the genetic "get huge/lean" gift department I make up for in recovery. It is silly fast so I can tend to do more reps sets than my training partner and feel just fine the next day.
Split is as follows:
Monday - Chest / Bi
Tuesday - Back
Wednesday - off (normally abs / cardio)
Thursday - Shoulders / Tri
Friday - Legs
Normally 1 warm up set to approx 12 reps and then follow with three sets per lift in the 6-8/ range, the last being to failure w/ assisted negatives.
I currently sit at about 184 pounds and not as lean as I would like, but I wanted to get into the habit of EATING (right and enough) as well as build a "base" to add muscle. I seem to have stalled again with adding muscle (just like the old days) but gaining weight.
I started Cycle Support yesterday and hit my back hard!!!! I will begin the Primordial Performance Turinabol - Dermacrine next week and go the 6 weeks with the TRS and TCF-1 in play as recommended. This will be a bulk but not a sloppy one. I will continue to eat what I do now (a few shakes but most protein coming from whole foods / clean eating). I will probably throw a "start of cycle pic or two in" as I find that seeing is so much better than just a tape measure / statistics. No one cares that you post that you have a X inch arm or X inch back/chest measurment. They want to see how you LOOK and carry on your frame. I do anyway.
I am exicted about this and am greatful to Rosie for kicking me in the butt and making me think about many things I thought I had covered (she is probably still shaking her head at me doing this run as this was NOT her recommendation, thus the title). Thanks to Ryan and Sean for some pointers in my searching others theads as well as in my own. Thanks also to HeretoStudy as many a traded PM lead to this particular combo for my first PH run.
Heres to a bigger 2011 with healthy low side gains and a leaner body to show it.
- 12-29-2010, 07:21 AM
- 12-30-2010, 07:10 PM
Was on a camping trip the past two days. Just got back and hit the gym with my wife. The looks you get when you break out the shaker cup and premeasured creatine/protein/Cycle Support to get it in ya...
Shoulder / Tricep day (note hurt right shoulder still not fully healed - numbers less than impressive while on the mend)
DB Shoulder Press warm up 15#x12 / 15#x12 - 20x9 - 25-10 - 30x9 - 30x6
Side Latteral Raises (strict form & slow) warm up 10x12 / 12.5x8 - 15x6 - 15x9
Low Pully Delt Raise (strict no jerking around) warm up 20x12 / 25x12 - 30x9 - 30x8 with 4 negatives
Reverse Pec Deck warm up 50x12 / 70x12 - 90x12 - Drop set 110x8 90x4 70x4 50x6 30x10
Cable Tricep Push Downs warm up 50x12 / 70x10 - 90x5 - Drop set 90x6 70x4 50x3 30x10 10x12 - - Follow up Drop set 70x6 50x6 30x10
Skull Crushers (did not have a spot so took it EASY) 45x8 45x8 45x8
Seated Tricep Press warm up 40x10 / 50x9 - 60x7 - 70x3 - 55x10
Seated Dip Machine warm up 70x15 / 110x15 - 130x15 - Drop Set 150x7 130x3 110x3 90x4 70x5 50x16 30x12
Packed it in...
So looking forward to begining the actual cycle. The Choc. Cycle Support is NOT a great flavor but not terrible. I understand it is WAY better than some of the other sups right around the corner (Turinabol and Dermacrine).
Absolute shame about the Andro Series but HUGE props to PP and Eric for being stand up and doing what is right by the customer rather than releasing something and lining their pockets while working on a version 2 that was the quality you had wanted in the first place. Much respect and anticipation as it is obvious it will come out when its RIGHT.
12-30-2010, 07:16 PM
Killer a log to follow, best of luck with the cycle! I will be following along so if you have ANY questions let me know!!
12-30-2010, 07:16 PM
Will definitely keep an eye out for you, Eric - you've come a way since you first started asking questions. Regardless, the Primordial team is here to support you in your quest, and if you have any further questions on what you're doing, we will answer Let's make 2011 being the best year yet!
Re the AndroSeries, Primordial definitely prides ourselves on having the consumer's best interests at heart, and we are not going to release anything that is less than safe and optimal. In the meantime, even the reps are on the edge of the seat eagerly awaiting this release.
12-31-2010, 08:35 AM
Thank you Ryan and of course Rosie...
I can use all the help I can get. This is a first for me and having well educated and experianced reps willing to help is a HUGE reason that I am using Primordial.
Question: These cycle support shakes are not stellar (though I try to mask it)... That said, can I start encorporating the T-Bol and Derm into that same AM / PM shake? Sort of a ****tail of nastyness. This way I get it all out of the way at once rather than many instances of gross.
ASTG / Stims will cease when I start the cycle. I am assuming that a N.O. is still ok, or is that totally unnecessary as well?
Off to the gym for leg day. I love leg day!!!!
12-31-2010, 09:49 AM
12-31-2010, 10:31 AM
Leaving a few ml's remnants of shake in a container is no big deal. If those ml's also contain actives served in ml's sizes I'd have concern.
Although it's likely a minute issue I'd drop my liqua-vades into my mouth and chase them with drink. JMHO.
01-01-2011, 11:00 AM
01-01-2011, 11:11 AM
Yesterday was leg day (and the a very sad hunting expedition). Bambi lives another year.
Leg Extentions Warm up 90x15 // 130x14 - 170x12 - 210x12
Leg Press Warm up 170x15 // 230x15 - 330x8 - 390x6
NO HACK SQUAT (and no time for true Squats) SUCKS!!!!
Hamstring Curls Warm up 110x12 // 150x10 - 190x10 - 230x8
Stiff Leg Deads Warm up 80x12 // 120x10 - 120x8 - 120x10
Seated Calf Press (three positions) Warm up 210x20,15,15 // 250x15(3) - 250x15(3)
Really wish I had the time for some Squats but it was not meant to be this go around. I had deer waiting for me and my boy. Unfortunatly they waited till way after dark and we never even saw one. No lean bulk on venison this winter!!!!
01-02-2011, 04:26 PM
The fun (actual cycle) starts tomorrow AM... Looking forward to some good clean eats, large weights, big rest, and a better looking me....
Bring it on!
01-02-2011, 04:46 PM
01-02-2011, 04:53 PM
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
01-02-2011, 06:03 PM
OK so tomorrow starts the cycle and I was just looking over the "recommended dosing" and doing the math.
The bottle of Turinabol will run the entire 6 week cycle at the 1.5 ml x 2 ED
I have two bottles (actually 4) of Dermacrine. At the recommended dose of 4 ml x 2 ED I will only use approx 1 and 1/3 bottles...
As a 42 year old first timer I am more than willing to run as recommended unless there is a compelling (and reasonable/safe) recommendation to bump up or down. Of course the Turinabol only goes one bottle deep in my stash so it is what it is... The Derm is up for discussion. There is a small part of me wanting to add in some Androhard but reality is this is a first run and that may well be considered overkill and dumb for a noobie/rookie cycle.
I suppose my other concern is simply, an opened bottle not being used for some period of time (PCT and time off cycle before even considering another run)? How long will is store opened / sealed tight / refriged / unused?
I am truely looking forward to this and have high expectations for growth and getting a bit more solid with some size. Ending up with a 10 pound gain that remains after PCT would be a bit more than spectacular to me.
01-02-2011, 06:09 PM
01-02-2011, 06:53 PM
Bump the Derm to 5ml twice daily at that rate it will last you 50 days, towards the end of the cycle you can bump the dose again so you will finish off two bottles in 6 weeks. I think the Derm with your Turinabol will be plenty for your first cycle.
01-02-2011, 07:39 PM
01-02-2011, 09:18 PM
lol, you should be fine and I think you are going to love this cycle!
01-03-2011, 06:49 AM
Woke and started the cycle with 1.5 ml T-Bol and 5 ml Derm...
Note to Primordial Performance Reps and product chemists: Coloring White Out purple and puting "Grape" on the lable does not make it GRAPE!!!! WOW, that was some nasty stuff. I have had my share of "why on earth am I ingesting this" products over the past few years but this one takes the honors of numero uno. On the plus side it made the gross tasting Derma more pleasant than it really is...
01-03-2011, 06:15 PM
Way busy day but a pretty good work out. I have learned (due to the use of the local college gym last week) that I truely despise the gym I use at work. Benching is done in a power rack so there is NO range of motion and that severely limmits the weight I move. My numbers went down today compared to last week and that was with a spot. In the end its all what I look and feel like not the number on the lift (I am trying to convince myself of this).
The taste of the PP T-Bol is nasty to be sure and the Derma is not tasty. On the upside, one of my lifting partners pointed out that nothing he had ever tried that was any good tasted decent. So by these measures the cycle I am on will be EPIC!
Monday is Chest and Bi day.
Decline bench warm up 105x12 // 155x8 - 175x8 - 185x6 (was doing working sets of 9 with 185 free weight last week with no issues)
Flat bench warm up 105x12 // 165x8 - 165x6 - 125x10 (felt spent after decline for some reason)
Incline DB Flies warm up 20x12 // 25x10 - 30x9 - 35x10
Pec Deck warm up 60x12 // 70x12 - 90x12 - 110x12 (these will go up next week as I move up in weight and down in reps)
Ran out of time and had a meeting so a simple drop set of curls with DBs to form failure - 40 - 30 - 20 - 12
Have already dosed this evenings serving of Cycle Support and T-Bol / Derm (MMMMMmmmm)
01-04-2011, 02:05 PM
You don't really want to store your liqua-vades open - even when you're using them. They should always be either in a dark, dry place, at room temperature, with the lid sealed tightly (during usage), or in the refrigerator - but only if you want to extend the shelf-life of the products. Do not refrigerate is just waiting between cycles - if the liqua-vades get too cold the ingredients can fall out and give the product a grainy texture, and you might have to re-heat it to fix it.
01-04-2011, 03:13 PM
Hmm..I need to catch up here
01-04-2011, 03:14 PM
01-04-2011, 05:22 PM
01-04-2011, 05:51 PM
Found that the best way for me to take the T-Bol and Derm is to shoot them both straight into a small glass of water... DOWN IT FAST and chase it with the Cycle Support / protein shake and hope it masks the flavor / aftertaste!!!!
OK, I am done ranting about the taste. The proof is in the results!
Tuesday is back day...
DB Pullovers warm up 50x12 // 60x10 - 70x9 - 80x6 (improvement of 3 reps @ 80 over last week).
DB Bent Rows warm up 50x12 // 60x8 - 70x10 - 80x9 (improvement of 2 reps @ 80 over last week)
HS Pull Downs warm up 90x12 // 130x12 - 170x9 - 170x9 (slight improvement)
WG Seated Row warm up 150x12 // 130x10 - 150x8 (oh what a difference machine types make!!!! I was doing more reps @ 20 pounds more at the other gym last week)..
Reverse Pec Deck warm up 60x10 // 50x9 - drop set 50x8+40x4+30x3+20x8
Dead Lift warm up 135x12 // 185x9 - 225x5 - 185x6
Feel very spent. Numbers are not going to knock anyones "socks off" but they are mine and I love the way they make me feel. Too early to attribute anything to the PP products yet. So I will attribute it to my incredible manliness... Ya, thats the ticket!!!! (funnier if read in your best John Lovettes pathalogical liar skit voice.)
Off for my evening dose and some chicken and sweet potato... MMmmmm MMmmmm Goood.
01-04-2011, 05:54 PM
01-05-2011, 08:33 PM
Wednesdays are "off days"
Did 5 miles on the recumbant for some unwanted pounds management while trying to add the good stuff...
Cut Mondays Bicep work short so I did some preacher curls and standing DB hammer curls.
Took measurements and pics today while I am only 3 days into cycle and no noted changes have occured. I will post that stuff up tomorrow as I have a throbbing headache at the moment and need some shut-eye...
Quick question - Should the consistency of the Turinabol be the same as the Dermacrine? The Derm comes out much like they picture on the site for a "worm shot" while the T-Bol is much more fluid. I am wondering if there is any need to be concerned. Both are kept in the refrig and both are shaken before measuring out the dose.
01-05-2011, 08:42 PM
But for the AI cycle support, that stuff tastes like straight poopy, no matter what I have mixed it with the poopy taste just stays, next cycle I am doing another cycle support product, can't take the poopiness again
Also I am assuming that if I knew what poop tasted like, it would taste like cycle support, just saying
01-06-2011, 06:29 AM
If I had known that Cycle Support powder was the also Life Support caps, I would have gone the cap route for sure!!!! Lessons learned.
The t-bol smells EXACTLY like the white out correction liquid to me and I imagine it tastes the same as well. As much as I am not crazy about the Cycle Support powder, I use it to mask the taste of the T-Bol LV!!!!!!
Apparently I enjoy the "poopy" taste over the t-bol "grape white out mixed with death" flavor....
01-06-2011, 08:08 PM
Day 4 of the cycle... Nothing to note yet.
The guy I hit the gym with had a meeting so I had to go solo. Makes a few lifts a bit tough and I am not doing skull crushers to failure with out a spot... ;-)
Shoulder and Tricep day - (note-rehabbing right shoulder)
DB Shoulder Press warm up 20x12 // 25x12 - 30x12 - 40x5 (might have gotten another two but right shoulder said NOPE.)
Side Latteral Raises warm up 12x12 // 15x10 - 20x8 - 20x9 (yes, sad)
Low Pully Delt Raises (cable) warm up 12.5x10 // 17x9 - 12.5x8 (shoulders said done)
Reverse Pec Deck warm up 50x10 // 70x9 - 90x8 - 70/60/50/40/30/20 drop set
Tricep Push Downs warm up 52x12 // 62x12 - 72x5 - 62x12
Skull Crushers 45x12-12-10-8
Seated DB Tricep Overhead Press warm up 40x12 // 50x10 - 60x6 - 70x5 - 55x6 (two more reps at 70, felt good)
Did a few sets of body weight dips to failure (at this point that was reps of 5 - 6).. Burned em up....
Still have the outstanding question: Should the consistency of the Turinabol be the same as the Dermacrine? The Derm comes out much like they picture on the site for a "worm shot" while the T-Bol is much more fluid. I am wondering if there is any need to be concerned. Both are kept in the refrig and both are WELL shaken before measuring out the dose.
01-06-2011, 08:20 PM
01-07-2011, 04:36 PM
Day 5 on cycle...
Feeling pretty good actually... I have noticed a slight change in "fullness" and or "hardness" of muscles. I am finding that if I work something really good on say Monday, I have the sense of a true pump for days... I like it. I have noted a slight increase in strength but again nothing crazy and could be attributed to pouring my soul into this cycles success.
So... LEG DAY...
Warmed up on a bike for a bit and hit it.
Leg Extensions warm up 110x12 // 150x12 (up 2 reps) - 160x12 (up 2 reps and 10 pounds) - 180x10 (up 2 reps and 10 pounds)
Hamstring Curls warm up 80x12 // 100x12 (up 2 reps) - 130x10 (up 10 pounds) - 150x6 (up 10 pounds but down 2 reps)
Squats (Smith Machine) warm up 105x12 // 195x8 - 195x8 (up 1 rep) - 195x9 (up 3 reps)
Stiff Leg Deads 85 x 10-12-10 (back not loving me)
Hack Squats warm up 80x12 //130x12 (up 4 reps) - 140x10 (up 2 reps and 10 pounds) - 160x9 (up 2 reps and 10 pounds)
Seated Calf Raises (each) 70x30-30-30
Calf Press (on hack squat machine) 195x20- 165x20-20
Again, the numbers are not going to make most green with envy but they are going in the right direction and I can live with that...
01-07-2011, 04:37 PM
01-07-2011, 04:55 PM
01-08-2011, 03:47 PM
Saturday / Sunday are "off days" for me.
Gotta love sleeping in a bit and then the Saturday afternoon nap was oh-so NICE...
Still waiting for a rep or other experianced user to chime in with an answer to the consistency question concerning Turinabol...
01-08-2011, 06:03 PM
01-08-2011, 06:10 PM
Sorry bud I would answer, but I never used the Turinabol-LV.
01-09-2011, 12:37 PM
Thanks for the link. I would have been here sooner had I known...
01-09-2011, 12:48 PM
01-09-2011, 12:50 PM
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