How often to switch accessories

[Audioph1x]

So I've been in and out of strength training for a few years now. I've tried a few popular methods - Madcow 5x5; Wendler 5/3/1 and Beyond 5/3/1; a couple of the Russian high volume ones; Westside Conjugate; and probably a couple others that I couldn't pronounce.

I tend to stay on one method for a while. For example I've been doing beyond 5/3/1 for probably 6 months on and off. My logic is this: if it's working, don't **** with it.

As I become close to a stall point, however, I work on that particular point for about a week or so before returning to the same accessory lifts. This is hurting my strength right now.

This is my question: how often should I be changing up accessory movements? Every 4 weeks after a deload? Every 8 weeks? Or at all?

Hope this makes sense guys. Thanks in advance.

 

[JudoJosh]

You should really change all movements after a deload.

 

[Audioph1x]

You should really change all movements after a deload.

All accessory movements or all movements period?

 

[JudoJosh]

From a programming/neuromuscular perspective, all movements.

 

[herderdude]

If you're just trying to get stronger, you can keep the framework and change all movements. If you're a strength competitor nearing competition, you'll need to keep the competition movements throughout.

If you remember from Westside, you keep an assistance movement until you no longer progress on it, a process which usually lasts 3-4 weeks. Then you repeat the process with your new movement. This works well for me.

 

[Audioph1x]

If you're just trying to get stronger, you can keep the framework and change all movements. If you're a strength competitor nearing competition, you'll need to keep the competition movements throughout.

If you remember from Westside, you keep an assistance movement until you no longer progress on it, a process which usually lasts 3-4 weeks. Then you repeat the process with your new movement. This works well for me.

So even if the program doesn't call for changing your movements you still should? Can I keep the same framework for beyond 5/3/1 and just change it up after every deload?

 

[herderdude]

So even if the program doesn't call for changing your movements you still should? Can I keep the same framework for beyond 5/3/1 and just change it up after every deload?

I wouldn't, but you could

 

[compudog]

If you're just trying to get stronger, you can keep the framework and change all movements. If you're a strength competitor nearing competition, you'll need to keep the competition movements throughout.

If you remember from Westside, you keep an assistance movement until you no longer progress on it, a process which usually lasts 3-4 weeks. Then you repeat the process with your new movement. This works well for me.

You're talking similar accessory movements right? For instance, floor press for dumbbell press. Rather than movements that are unrelated, like bis and calfs.

 

[herderdude]

You're talking similar accessory movements right? For instance, floor press for dumbbell press. Rather than movements that are unrelated, like bis and calfs.

Obviously, yes, there must be some priority to your training. There are things that belong as main movements, things that fit in the accessory bin, and a few exercises that have no business at all among serious training programs.

 

[compudog]

Obviously, yes, there must be some priority to your training. There are things that belong as main movements, things that fit in the accessory bin, and a few exercises that have no business at all among serious training programs.

True enough. I don't criticise other people's exercise choices any more though. But yeah, people who know what they're doing do it right, and get results. That simple.

 

[Rodja]

In theory, you won't have the same weakpoints after a certain point in the training cycle and will need to reevaluate where your present weaknesses lie. Once that's done, you can adjust accordingly.

 

[Hyde]

True enough. I don't criticise other people's exercise choices any more though. But yeah, people who know what they're doing do it right, and get results. That simple.

It's not a criticism - just that when someone is training for a particular thing, everything should be focused on directly assisting the goal. You're training for a big bench, iso-lateral machine glute presses are a joke. A gal getting ready for a Bikini show - nobody's gonna tell her to cut that out in her sweet neon spanks. But OP ain't training bikini lol

 

[Audioph1x]

But OP ain't training bikini lol

You don't know that

 

[Audioph1x]

In theory, you won't have the same weakpoints after a certain point in the training cycle and will need to reevaluate where your present weaknesses lie. Once that's done, you can adjust accordingly.

So you're saying to adjust accessory lifts accordingly or to adjust all lifts? I mean if I'm looking for a big bench and cant lock out the last 50% I'm not gonna do floor bench for my main exercise all 4 weeks right? Or is that what I should try?

I guess what I'm asking is do I only swap accessories to address my weaknesses or am I changing every lift after weaknesses are addressed before beginning that block?

 

[Hyde]

You don't know that

Lol alright well then I think we're done here

 

[Rodja]

So you're saying to adjust accessory lifts accordingly or to adjust all lifts? I mean if I'm looking for a big bench and cant lock out the last 50% I'm not gonna do floor bench for my main exercise all 4 weeks right? Or is that what I should try?

I guess what I'm asking is do I only swap accessories to address my weaknesses or am I changing every lift after weaknesses are addressed before beginning that block?

The specific supplemental work done to address a specific weak area of a lift (e.g. floor press) should be rotated. The other accessory work done for hypertrophy or prehab purposes can remain as long as they're doing what they should be doing.

 

[compudog]

It's not a criticism - just that when someone is training for a particular thing, everything should be focused on directly assisting the goal. You're training for a big bench, iso-lateral machine glute presses are a joke. A gal getting ready for a Bikini show - nobody's gonna tell her to cut that out in her sweet neon spanks. But OP ain't training bikini lol

Yeah I dig it. Just trying to help clear up the thread a bit.

 

[rfox2014]

I would minimize accessory movements when focusing on strength. I transitioned into madcow 5x5 from a bodybuilding / hypertrophy / accessory style of lifting. I can honestly say my strength has shot up. I have experimented with weighted pull ups and weighted dips as accessory lifts to the program. These seem to compliment my strength gains. However, I would imagine an overload of accessory movements would hurt your main 5 lifts. At most, I would swap out weighted pull ups for a lat pull down or even an isolated bicep curl, and swap out weighted dips for an isolated tricep extension of any sort. Too much accessory will likely hinder max recovery and strength gainz, especially with heavyazzweights.

If any one has any experiences to share about integrating hypertrophy / accessory with madcow 5x5 or any other powerlifting style programs, please share! Or, did you exclude all bodybuilding style movements from the program? Im always looking to try other programs that gave others great results.

 

[Hyde]

I would minimize accessory movements when focusing on strength. I transitioned into madcow 5x5 from a bodybuilding / hypertrophy / accessory style of lifting. I can honestly say my strength has shot up. I have experimented with weighted pull ups and weighted dips as accessory lifts to the program. These seem to compliment my strength gains. However, I would imagine an overload of accessory movements would hurt your main 5 lifts. At most, I would swap out weighted pull ups for a lat pull down or even an isolated bicep curl, and swap out weighted dips for an isolated tricep extension of any sort. Too much accessory will likely hinder max recovery and strength gainz, especially with heavyazzweights.

If any one has any experiences to share about integrating hypertrophy / accessory with madcow 5x5 or any other powerlifting style programs, please share! Or, did you exclude all bodybuilding style movements from the program? Im always looking to try other programs that gave others great results.

Madcow 5x5 is more of a beginner/intermediate program designed to build a foundation. The focus is recovery and bang-for-buck compound movements, hence the lack of variety. A 150lb guy doesn't need to be doing preacher curls as much as he needs bb rows and another meal.

As a lifter advances in strength, size and qualification/experience their work capacity should increase and imbalances/weak areas tend to appear. Progress also comes much slower. It's not going to hurt to put a 60-100 reps of curls and pec flyes down through their training session, or get some extra ab and calf work in.

Most 5x5s are designed to be milked as hard as possible until progress stalls hard. Then you have to get more creative. Hope that helped some.

 

[Audioph1x]

I would minimize accessory movements when focusing on strength. I transitioned into madcow 5x5 from a bodybuilding / hypertrophy / accessory style of lifting. I can honestly say my strength has shot up. I have experimented with weighted pull ups and weighted dips as accessory lifts to the program. These seem to compliment my strength gains. However, I would imagine an overload of accessory movements would hurt your main 5 lifts. At most, I would swap out weighted pull ups for a lat pull down or even an isolated bicep curl, and swap out weighted dips for an isolated tricep extension of any sort. Too much accessory will likely hinder max recovery and strength gainz, especially with heavyazzweights.

If any one has any experiences to share about integrating hypertrophy / accessory with madcow 5x5 or any other powerlifting style programs, please share! Or, did you exclude all bodybuilding style movements from the program? Im always looking to try other programs that gave others great results.

What I'm referring to is accessory lifts that address weak spots in the big 3. I started with 5x5 a few years ago and gained a ton of strength. That's a great program for someone learning about strength training because it more or less teaches you how to do compound lifts and shows you where to start. But as discussed earlier, at some point you're gonna stall. And that's where the more advanced programs begin to address where you're stalling and why.

 

[BlockBuilder]

I would just keep the same accessory movements and focus on progressive resistance. Of course I'm assuming you log all your workouts so you know for a fact that you are progressing in one way or another

 

[Audioph1x]

It's not a criticism - just that when someone is training for a particular thing, everything should be focused on directly assisting the goal. You're training for a big bench, iso-lateral machine glute presses are a joke. A gal getting ready for a Bikini show - nobody's gonna tell her to cut that out in her sweet neon spanks. But OP ain't training bikini lol

I'm probably just over thinking the supplemental lifts. When I've been the strongest, I've kinda just hit compounds hard until my last single is tough. After that, I'd just work the sticking points until the next week or month when I get to another heavy single or double and do it again..

I've been getting too caught up on accessory lifts and missing the point of them entirely. I'm ****ing dumb lol

 

[herderdude]

Happens to the best of us, man. If it works, keep it. If it don't, ditch it.

 

[Audioph1x]

Thanks for the help bros. Really appreciate it. Still a little sticky out of the hole on heavy singles. Anyone have luck with 'dead squats'?

 

[Hyde]

Thanks for the help bros. Really appreciate it. Still a little sticky out of the hole on heavy singles. Anyone have luck with 'dead squats'?

Mainly just screwing my back up but some like them a lot. Beltless pauses in the hole have helped me much more. 2-4 sets of 3-6 after my primary work for a couple full seconds is what I really like.

For the record, that's where every raw lifter sticks naturally. It's probably just f'ckin heavy lol

 

[Audioph1x]

Mainly just screwing my back up but some like them a lot. Beltless pauses in the hole have helped me much more. 2-4 sets of 3-6 after my primary work for a couple full seconds is what I really like.

For the record, that's where every raw lifter sticks naturally. It's probably just f'ckin heavy lol

I finished yesterday with some pause squats. It's been a while lol. And I know what you're sayin. Tried dead squats from the lowest pin position and I couldn't even do it. My lower back was fried even after foam rolling