Novie Power Lifter in Need of Some Advice

[Vendetta333]

Hey, I have been reading thru this section for a while now and I am in need of some advice. Since Septemeber, I have been using Wendler's 5-3-1. My maxes are at about 400,315,and 225 for the dead,squat, and bench. Last month I stalled and in these next two weeks I'll probably stall again, the 3x5 day was seemingly difficult. I was wondering how a Ed Coan Dead and Squat program mixed with West Sides ME and De Upper days would work? I ask this only because I feel like in order to improve my lifts, I feel the need to work my lifts specifically. Any ideas and advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Vendetta333]

should say *novice* not novie, "c" key is sticking heh:damnit1:

 

[brownstown89]

Hey, I have been reading thru this section for a while now and I am in need of some advice. Since Septemeber, I have been using Wendler's 5-3-1. My maxes are at about 400,315,and 225 for the dead,squat, and bench. Last month I stalled and in these next two weeks I'll probably stall again, the 3x5 day was seemingly difficult. I was wondering how a Ed Coan Dead and Squat program mixed with West Sides ME and De Upper days would work? I ask this only because I feel like in order to improve my lifts, I feel the need to work my lifts specifically. Any ideas and advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

im doing the same thing ur talking about. follow the westside split.. For ME your movement should be the 2 sets of bench coan uses... for ME lower it can be the two sets of squats OR the two sets of deadlift in coans DL routine.. its working great for me..

 

[Vendetta333]

im doing the same thing ur talking about. follow the westside split.. For ME your movement should be the 2 sets of bench coan uses... for ME lower it can be the two sets of squats OR the two sets of deadlift in coans DL routine.. its working great for me..

yeah, i was reading what you wrote, and it got me thinking about it. Where did u find the coan bench routine? all I find is an article from critical bench just re-written, like one with actual percentages and the assitance work you know?

 

[rxp1997]

why dont u do what Wendler suggests when getting stuck? reset your max to 90% and start again. also, which percentages are you using, 5/3/1 has two, one tougher than the other, suggest using the lesser one as you declare yourself to be a novice.
(also, I am assuming that you are follwoing the program faithfully, with a deload week and such)

 

[rckvl7]

Are you sure your getting enough sleep and food?

 

[Vendetta333]

why dont u do what Wendler suggests when getting stuck? reset your max to 90% and start again. also, which percentages are you using, 5/3/1 has two, one tougher than the other, suggest using the lesser one as you declare yourself to be a novice.
(also, I am assuming that you are follwoing the program faithfully, with a deload week and such)

I did reset and am following it faithfully. It has given me some amazing gains in strength and size. I started with the 100% of max's back in September since I knew my true max's completely. Last month, I reset to 90% and it still seems hard. Was also keeping the idea of still going with the program in my mind.

 

[Vendetta333]

Are you sure your getting enough sleep and food?

See i think this is the problem, I've been having trouble sleeping and adjusting my eating to my new class schedule. I'll have bfast then 2 classes then a 30 min break where i usually have a shake, then a protein bar after my next class. Then I'm in class for another hour and a half and don't get home for another 30 minutes. And I like to eat all my food fresh, I tried the cook 10 chicken breasts thing and freeze em and it didn't work right. Also sleeping is hard for me. Maybe it isn't my training, I should probably look to dial in my diet and sleep more closely.

 

[walker11]

Hey, I have been reading thru this section for a while now and I am in need of some advice. Since Septemeber, I have been using Wendler's 5-3-1. My maxes are at about 400,315,and 225 for the dead,squat, and bench. Last month I stalled and in these next two weeks I'll probably stall again, the 3x5 day was seemingly difficult. I was wondering how a Ed Coan Dead and Squat program mixed with West Sides ME and De Upper days would work? I ask this only because I feel like in order to improve my lifts, I feel the need to work my lifts specifically. Any ideas and advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

last year i did exactly what you're talking about and my body crashed HARD in the last few weeks of the program because i was over training. if you plan on using Ed Coan's routine then you need to add deload weeks every 3rd week (which is what Westside does) or you will end up over training.

 

[brownstown89]

last year i did exactly what you're talking about and my body crashed HARD in the last few weeks of the program because i was over training. if you plan on using Ed Coan's routine then you need to add deload weeks every 3rd week (which is what Westside does) or you will end up over training.

coans deadlift doesnt need a deload week.. its 10-12 weeks i did 5 weeks of it on winter break while eating a ****tier diet then dave tate and getting wasted everynight and i still hit every weight i needed too.

now if you use dealidft and squat routine at the same time that will not work.

 

[stullsy]

I stick with the 5-3-1 program and just switch up my exercises.... Like instead of doing bench press I might do 2 board, 1 board, floor press, decline, incline etc... and use that as my ME lift for 3 weeks and then I switch the exercise again... and so on with my Deadlift/Squat ME and Military Press ME day.... Then during my deload week I do Dynamic Method training and dont use any weights higher than 65% of my 1rm

 

[brownstown89]

yeah, i was reading what you wrote, and it got me thinking about it. Where did u find the coan bench routine? all I find is an article from critical bench just re-written, like one with actual percentages and the assitance work you know?

i tried 5.3.1 rep maxes went up actually 1 rep max didnt..... for me my westside type split is this way.
Monday ME upper..

ME movement: coans bench routine weather its 2 x 10, or 2 x 1 thats ME movement...

weakness assistance movement- my weakness is my lockout 3/4ths the way up. so i do close grip floor press without flaring my elbows at all this is for 4 setts of 6-10 reps... this should be a heavy movement to help ur weakness.

Then shoulders- my frnt delts get enough work from bench so i do face pulls and lateral raises. 3 x 10-15 for each.

Tricep Endurance- 4 x 25 pulldowns this is to build up endurance so that ur triceps dont fatiuge quick focus on form. and dont go too heavy...

this is very similar to defrancos westside for skinny bastards 1 except i do no back movement and 2 shoulder movements.. i do 2 back movements on DE day because i can go heavier then... with this routine the key to successfor me is the weakness asssitance movement. which u should rotate every 2-3 weeks, and also pick it so its not stressing ur rotator cuffs since u will be doing full ROM bench press every week. so basically rotate the Weak assistance movemnt like a ME. but keepME as your bench press that coan suggests..

i dont do a upper body DE i do an assistance day which i do
C.G board Press 2 x 3 or 2 x 5 but rotated with other weaknesses.
D.B exentions seated 4 x 8-10 (or other moderate difficulty tricep lift)
2 back movements one heavy and basic such as rows another is a form of pulling such as pulldowns seated row etc.. both 3 x 8
(flyes and bicep work if u want dont go heavy on flyes tho)

since i lift raw and feel that i need to do the full ROM to do the actualy lift this has worked the best..this hits the tris hard without killing your rotator cuffs. and you still use the westside way of using different movements to help your weaknesses.

 

[SRS2000]

Pick a program and stick with it. You didn't do the 5/3/1 correctly from the start if you used 100% of your maximums. You may also need to change your assistance exercises as well. With 5/3/1, you should be able to reach a much higher level of strength than you are at right now before having to completely abandon the program. I would advise you to stick with the program and reset to a point where you can exceed the rep minimums on the last set. I'm getting ready to start it up again after a meet, and I'm starting with 85-87% of my maximums as my initial training maximums so I can start with managable weights and build some momentum going forward. I would also do the version with the lower % sets leading up to the last set. Make sure you're not overdoing the assistance work either. You may also consider switching to the 3 day per week template of the program to get a little more recovery.
If you decide to switch programs anyway, I would advise you not to mix and match programs. Programs as made to go together as a whole and thus don't work as well when you are trying to combine different programs. Jumping from program to program to program is a recipe for not making any progress.

 

[walker11]

coans deadlift doesnt need a deload week.. its 10-12 weeks i did 5 weeks of it on winter break while eating a ****tier diet then dave tate and getting wasted everynight and i still hit every weight i needed too.

now if you use dealidft and squat routine at the same time that will not work.

i was doing squat and deadllift, which is what the thread start is talking about doing, so he will need to deload especialy towards the end when the weight starts getting real heavy.

 

[Vendetta333]

Pick a program and stick with it. You didn't do the 5/3/1 correctly from the start if you used 100% of your maximums. You may also need to change your assistance exercises as well. With 5/3/1, you should be able to reach a much higher level of strength than you are at right now before having to completely abandon the program. I would advise you to stick with the program and reset to a point where you can exceed the rep minimums on the last set. I'm getting ready to start it up again after a meet, and I'm starting with 85-87% of my maximums as my initial training maximums so I can start with managable weights and build some momentum going forward. I would also do the version with the lower % sets leading up to the last set. Make sure you're not overdoing the assistance work either. You may also consider switching to the 3 day per week template of the program to get a little more recovery.
If you decide to switch programs anyway, I would advise you not to mix and match programs. Programs as made to go together as a whole and thus don't work as well when you are trying to combine different programs. Jumping from program to program to program is a recipe for not making any progress.

I used 100% of my one rep maxes to begin with in september because 2 weeks before I started using it, I maxed out all 4 lifts, took a lighter week of lifting, and then began the program. So my 1 rep maxes were relatively accurate. I re-set to 90% of my 1 rep maxes because I didnt hit all the numbers in january as I should have. 5-3-1 was my first real program power lifting wise. I have just gotten sick of the whole go in, bench, do db rows, and db flat presses and leave like I have been doing. I don't exactly think my problem is with the 5-3-1 but more so my diet and sleep. But I was really just looking at other programs and seeing if something appealed to me more so than what 5-3-1 is right now

 

[Vendetta333]

last year i did exactly what you're talking about and my body crashed HARD in the last few weeks of the program because i was over training. if you plan on using Ed Coan's routine then you need to add deload weeks every 3rd week (which is what Westside does) or you will end up over training.

In the coan deadlift routine im looking at, it ramps up from 75 to 90, then to 80 then up to 100. I figured the drop from 90 to 80 was his way of a deload.

I guess the way im looking at everything is, I like the idea of 2 upper days and 2 lower days each week. I don't feel confident in west side since im not directly training my deadlift with deads, and I always figured it was for much more experienced pl'ers than what I am.

My problem with 5-3-1 isnt the squats, press, or deads increasing, its the ****ing bench. I have long arms and am constantly trying to improve my form. My bench gets stuck at the bottom and pauses about where a 2-board press would be. Could I stick a 2 board press as the main movement and possibly throw in a dynamic bench workout after my presses to improve on form?

 

[rckvl7]

In the coan deadlift routine im looking at, it ramps up from 75 to 90, then to 80 then up to 100. I figured the drop from 90 to 80 was his way of a deload.

I guess the way im looking at everything is, I like the idea of 2 upper days and 2 lower days each week. I don't feel confident in west side since im not directly training my deadlift with deads, and I always figured it was for much more experienced pl'ers than what I am.

My problem with 5-3-1 isnt the squats, press, or deads increasing, its the ****ing bench. I have long arms and am constantly trying to improve my form. My bench gets stuck at the bottom and pauses about where a 2-board press would be. Could I stick a 2 board press as the main movement and possibly throw in a dynamic bench workout after my presses to improve on form?

Remember, your sticking point is actually an inch or two below where the lift actually stops. I would do some sort of assistance work for your lats(pull-ups, rows etc) and dumbbell presses, both should help with strength off the chest. You could also do bottom position presses.

 

[Vendetta333]

Remember, your sticking point is actually an inch or two below where the lift actually stops. I would do some sort of assistance work for your lats(pull-ups, rows etc) and dumbbell presses, both should help with strength off the chest. You could also do bottom position presses.

I'll look into it.

I think im going to stick with 5-3-1 and just take a step away from the process and re-think things. Look at my weakness on all of my lifts, re-calculate my maxes and such. I'll post back tomorrow with what I've come up with. Everyone has been a great help in this process. Thank you all.

 

[SRS2000]

It doesn't matter if you know what all your maxes are with 5/3/1. I know all my maxes too, but I'm starting with 85-87%. Starting with 90% is done to start light and build strength over time, not because you aren't sure of your maxes.
If you're getting bored, pick a different assistance template to work from. There are a million ways to do your assistance work as long as you get some work in and have overall balance in your training.

 

[rxp1997]

also make sure your increments are following the template, 5lbs for bench, 10lbs for squat/dl. it might not seem like a lot, but it adds up over time and lets you solidify your gains.

 

[MongoSS]

If I were you I would run a classic periodization (like coans) for a while until you stall out. The extra work load will help you develop a strong base to work off of. Then I would transition into a westside protocol.

 

[brownstown89]

If I were you I would run a classic periodization (like coans) for a while until you stall out. The extra work load will help you develop a strong base to work off of. Then I would transition into a westside protocol.

you can use coans routine into ur westside as the ME movement. if ur in the 1-3 rep range of his routine.. if ur stalling on his routine. switch it out and do board presses for 2 to 3 weeks then try to go back to where u left off in his routine.

 

[SemiBulimic]

On the subject of 5/3/1 there's a good interview with tate and wendler: http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/tag_team_with_tate_and_wendler

and in particular a few quotes that I think apply to the OP:-

"I've learned over the years that the fewer variables you have in your program, the easier it is to see what's wrong. I can make one little change and get back on course. "

"Every program is 8 weeks to this, 12 weeks to that. When you look at it, though, Dave's been training for 30 years. When he sees an 8-week program, it's a very small bit of his overall training life. Yet all these guys want everything to happen in those eight weeks.

Does anyone want to hear "24 months to a better body?" Hell no. But it's the truth. And, really, two years isn't that long at all."

"Jim's breaking PR's every week and things are always moving forward. That's very important. "

I think if wendler, with his many years of lifting experience is STILL making gains on 5/3/1 there's something very wrong if you aren't. You need to step back, take an ego check start from scratch and build again.

On a side note - the 'bloat walk' - very very funny