question of form (with video)

[tnubs]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmlqfZHHbTQ&feature=channel_page"]YouTube - 495lb Deadlift[/ame]

this was todays top single (and about my max) at 10 plates. i know i probably shouldnt use straps but i only use them on my top single. after the lift i tore something in my neck and now i cant turn my head left or roll my neck left.

but how does my form look? am i doing it too close to like a straight leg? my squat is pretty weak at around 300lbs for 5 reps so i try to use more back than legs to get more weight. any advice?

 

[suncloud]

form looks OK, i'd watch that rounded out lower back though. you may try PM'ing kabuki (our resident powerlifter) for a more accurate critique - i'd defer to an experts opinion over mine

 

[meatNcreatine]

how much do you weigh? you look skinny and pulling 5 plates is good for a skinny dude lol

 

[SRS2000]

It doesn't appear you even attempt to arch or lock in your back before you pull. It's tough to keep a perfect arch with a near-max attempt, but you should at least try. Try to arch hard and pick up your chest a bit at the start. Also, don't mess around so long before you pull, get your air, arch your back, and go.
Ditch the straps and used a mixed grip and/or chalk. Do some separate grip work if you need to. There's no reason you can't hold on to 495.

 

[tnubs]

i weigh more than i look im about 190... been tryin to cut a little lately. i duno where all the weight goes, bf is like 16%

still over 2.5 times my bodyweight, so im happy

 

[tnubs]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9QWolrKyMc&feature=channel_page"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]

part of the warm up i did 315x5, is this the right kinda setup or do i need to arch more?

 

[SRS2000]

Better, but try and arch a little more. It might feel a little weird at first, but long-term I think it will help your strength and keep you safer.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

I agree with others here on practicing the lower back arch more. The way your back was rounded on that single made me cringe. And yes...that is a serious amount of weight you are pulling!

 

[tnubs]

do u think i am having a problem with my lower back because im not getting deep enough with my hips before i pull? because the way it feels is almost like my back is parallel to the floor and leverage at that angle is terrible, which i think is why i round it, and when i sit into it a bit more i lose all my strength almost instantly.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

What weight can you pull when dropping your rear down? The 315 warm ups looked easy. Can you work on the form with that weight and build the strength up from there?

 

[Caferacer]

Keep your hips down, and try to sit back with the weight more. Looks like the weight was over your toes; you should be pulling with your heels.

 

[tnubs]

im not sure how much i can pull with good form, but i guess ill check in about a week with some new videoes of me tryin to get it worked out. is there a video of really good form? i was looking on youtube last night and i noticed a lot of people were doing it how i was in my first video

 

[jcp2]

Your form is pretty bad. I would try and get the bar closer to your shins. You should not be bending so much at the knee in the beginning. You need to get your ass down more and your head up. Your soulders are also way over the bar, you want to be pulling with them behind the bar. Try and get an arch or at least get your back flatter. Work your hams and glutes hard, you pull with all lower back. Try and find someone who knows what they are doing and have them watch you. I looked like **** for years when i started. It is a hard exercise to teach yourself.

 

[jcp2]

OK, looking at it again, not atrocious. Just get the bar closer to you, and get your ass down, and get behind the bar. I could fix you in five minutes. So find someone else who can pull and ask them.

 

[pmiller383]

Try taking a huge breath of air into your stomach and then pushing your abs out during the lift. This will help lock your back in better so that you can arch. When you start the lift you want to pull back and try to bring your hips through to the bar, it may sound weird but thats the best way to describe it. I think you could get into a better position if you didn't have to mess with the straps, because then you could arch before you even go down to grab the bar.

 

[SRS2000]

im not sure how much i can pull with good form, but i guess ill check in about a week with some new videoes of me tryin to get it worked out. is there a video of really good form? i was looking on youtube last night and i noticed a lot of people were doing it how i was in my first video

If you are looking for video, take a look at some Andy Bolton video. He gets in very good position and is the strongest deadlifter in the world. You'll notice his back isn't super-arched, but he does try to at least keep it flat and he doesn't get rounded over.
Mark Rippetoe also did an excellent biomechanical analysis of the DL. Do some searching and you should be able to find it online.

 

[tnubs]

ok i think i got this figured out, now its just gonna be how hard it is to employ when im actually doing it. im gona put up a clip of my squats and bench later too

 

[brownstown89]

put the bar so close to ur shins that its like scartching them up. then when you pull try to drag them up shins. round ur back and make sure ur elbows arent loose when ur starting out the lift and keep ur chest out...

that sound about right guys?

 

[stullsy]

put the bar so close to ur shins that its like scartching them up. then when you pull try to drag them up shins. round ur back and make sure ur elbows arent loose when ur starting out the lift and keep ur chest out...

that sound about right guys?

thats pretty good analysis, make sure to keep your chest up and hips down, try to get down like your at the bottom of your squat, drive threw your heels and snap your hips into the bar and yes make sure your dragging that bar on your shins the whole way up your quadriceps to lockout

 

[stullsy]

oh yeah as far as you fuking your neck up, its probly from trying to pull to much with your upper back

 

[CopyCat]

Here are some vid links from Mark Ripptoe, they may help you.

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipDLAlignment1.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipDLAlignment2.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipDLAnatomy.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipDLBackAngle.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipDeadliftSetup.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipDLStartingAngles.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_RipDeadliftIntro.wmv

 

[tnubs]

that "setup" video is awesome. i think it will help me a lot. thanks!

 

[suncloud]

oh yeah as far as you fuking your neck up, its probly from trying to pull to much with your upper back

its usually actually from incorrect posture. the erectors (closest to the spine) should be under tension. this is achieved (look at pro powerlifters), by looking upward. when your head is looking forward, the erectors aren't protecting your neck.

kabuki - 801 deadlift : http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/58778-kabukis-video-log.html#post716642
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7LXee--zPQ"]YouTube - 801 lb Deadlift @ 198 BW[/ame]

read more at : http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_repair/deadlift_diagnosis

 

[tnubs]

and hes under 200 pounds in that video. how is it possible im so tiny and he is so big at the same weight. ugh. ill never be competitive

i got up 225x5 today on bench :-/

 

[stullsy]

and hes under 200 pounds in that video. how is it possible im so tiny and he is so big at the same weight. ugh. ill never be competitive

i got up 225x5 today on bench :-/

a lot of hard work and determination man, it may sound corny but thats what it is. also being able to train without too many injurys.

the guy is also wearing a deadlift suit, a belt tighter than a virgin chick and using a sumo style instead of a conventional, but either way its still an incrediable feat

 

[tnubs]

ive heard sumo can be hard on your hip joint, that that true? i may throw them in there as assistance my my DL days if they wont hurt.

as for progressing without injury, ive been making some really good jumps in strength since the middle of febuary since i started 5x5 and been setting PR's pretty much every week in each excercise. recently i decided to switch it up to have more energy per each lift. this probably isnt the best routine but what ive been doing is i have one squat day and one deadlift day a week and two bench days. ill go in and do BB bench, next day is squat, off day, DB bench to rep out either the 90's or 100's, then deadlift day, then off, repeat. i guess its pretty similar to westside, but i will go in hit some new PR for the main lift, maybe two sets of two different assistance excercises, then leave. its hard sometimes cuz i want to stay there and keep hitting bodyparts but honestly i notice more strength gains when i keep it really simple like that. hows that routine look?

edit: im also trying to cut down to single digit bodyfat, i know the kitchen is the best place to lose it but i dont want to effect my recovery and i still want to gain strength while i am attempting to lose weight. should i do like maybe 200 below maintenence to go a little slower but keep the gains?

 

[stullsy]

ive heard sumo can be hard on your hip joint, that that true? i may throw them in there as assistance my my DL days if they wont hurt.

as for progressing without injury, ive been making some really good jumps in strength since the middle of febuary since i started 5x5 and been setting PR's pretty much every week in each excercise. recently i decided to switch it up to have more energy per each lift. this probably isnt the best routine but what ive been doing is i have one squat day and one deadlift day a week and two bench days. ill go in and do BB bench, next day is squat, off day, DB bench to rep out either the 90's or 100's, then deadlift day, then off, repeat. i guess its pretty similar to westside, but i will go in hit some new PR for the main lift, maybe two sets of two different assistance excercises, then leave. its hard sometimes cuz i want to stay there and keep hitting bodyparts but honestly i notice more strength gains when i keep it really simple like that. hows that routine look?

edit: im also trying to cut down to single digit bodyfat, i know the kitchen is the best place to lose it but i dont want to effect my recovery and i still want to gain strength while i am attempting to lose weight. should i do like maybe 200 below maintenence to go a little slower but keep the gains?

sumo is harder on the hip flexors, i do sumo but only for higher reps.
everybodys different but for me the best assistance exercise for squat and deadlift are good mornings, standing and seated.

thats a lot of lower body work in one week, im not saying not to do it to shock your body, but you might wanna make sure you have a dynamic day and a ME day once each week or you can do what i like to do a 3 day week that consists of Day1 sqaut and leg assistance, Day3 Bench push/pull, and Day5 deadlift and shoulders. You will hit pretty much everything you need to and have days 2,4,6 and 7 to recover. And yes the kitchen is best place to loose weight.

 

[futurepilot]

I personally only lift sumo/quasi sumo. 'Standard' deadlifts at my height basically turn into SLDL, working almost exclusively back, a wider stance uses my legs and back.

 

[tnubs]

ok guys... the video quality is terrible(sorry guys) but i did squats today. the first video is 275x5 and the second is 305x5... also worked on my deadlift form with a single set of 315x10. i think my back looks a lot better, i used the tips on that crossfit video which i think really helped figure out my stance with the bar in the middle of my foot, bend down grab the bar and pull it then move my knees until they touch the bar, then deadlift it. i tried 405... but it didnt wana move with that form ill try harder next time i actually do deads. and yes, my squats are almost like good mornings, i just noticed how bad they were. i have some balance issues with squats. when i go down with heavy weights i go way too far forward. i like to get a wide stance for stability and depth. any ideas how to correct the leaning forward? and also is there anywhere i can start a PL log on here?

YouTube - 275x5 skwat

YouTube - 305x5 skwat

YouTube - 315x10 DL

 

[futurepilot]

Squats look really good.

DL's slow down!.

 

[tnubs]

so the forward lean in the squats is ok?

i was tryin to do the "dynamic effort" thing with deads, instead of doing sets of 3 reps i just did it all in one set

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Squats look ok bubba...just keep that chest up and push with the heels. And yes, slow down the deads a bit. The form looks much better though.

 

[stullsy]

squats look good.

yeah slow the deadlift down, make sure your pulling the weight dead off the floor before you explode, hence the name "deadlift"

 

[stullsy]

ok guys... the video quality is terrible(sorry guys) but i did squats today. the first video is 275x5 and the second is 305x5... also worked on my deadlift form with a single set of 315x10. i think my back looks a lot better, i used the tips on that crossfit video which i think really helped figure out my stance with the bar in the middle of my foot, bend down grab the bar and pull it then move my knees until they touch the bar, then deadlift it. i tried 405... but it didnt wana move with that form ill try harder next time i actually do deads. and yes, my squats are almost like good mornings, i just noticed how bad they were. i have some balance issues with squats. when i go down with heavy weights i go way too far forward. i like to get a wide stance for stability and depth. any ideas how to correct the leaning forward? and also is there anywhere i can start a PL log on here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_2DOWdjah8&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0glI3tpobrs&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpE9JssvcjQ&feature=channel_page

when you say leaning forward do u mean your weight transfers to your toes and your heels may come off the floor a little or do you mean your upper body ends up at an angle.

 

[tnubs]

feet are completely firm when i squat. i have some slip on shoes that are pretty similar to converse(minus the laces) that i wear when i lift so i can really feel the floor and get good stability. i just mean i feel like the angle of my back gets pretty steep, like a partial good morning. like i can feel my back going at a steeper angle forward when i get down deep with heavy weight. i dont think ive ever even maxed out at squats, so i dont know how i would respond with heavier weight on my back.

 

[stullsy]

thats how you want it to be for your hip drive, but anything more than a 45 degree angle is more of a good morning than a squat. Remember ass back and drive with your hips. act like your trying to lift the weight with your ass.

 

[SRS2000]

The new DL video looked better for the first couple reps, then things got a little sloppy. Pulling fast is fine, but not at the expense of good form. You're going to have to fight harder to hold that arch when the weights get heavier. I would recommend hammering the back raises in conjuction with your DL training. Start holding weight or putting a bar on your back so that it is difficult to get 10 reps, and pause them in the arched position at the top for a 2-3 count. Early in my PL training, I put 80 lbs. on my DL in ~6 months by really hitting the 45 degree back raises.
I don't see anything terribly wrong with your SQ, although you do walk it out about mile. Regarding forward lean, you have to differentiate it with rounding over. Some forward lean is necessary because the bar has to stay centered over your foot, or you'll fall over. It doesn't appear you are rounding, but it's a little tough to tell because the video is from far away. The wider your stance is and the more you push your knees out, the less distance your hips have to travel backward, and thus you get less forward lean. Either way, arch hard and hold the arch the entire SQ and try to keep everything moving together (not hips rising first).

 

[Frio3535]

Tbh deadlift there isn't a specific deadlift form. Just deadlift how your body lets you, dont try too hard to change this or change that will only end up pulling less, kk pulls like he does, Andy B has his style and benni pulls with rolling bar out then in and chuck fought pulls again diff,every lifter has his own style. You'll soon realise were u generate most power and speed from which is important for conventional.
Concentrate on bench and squat as they're more technical, and pull for speed. When you pull for speed you'll find your best tech:- the faster you're pull, the better the tech

 

[SRS2000]

Tbh deadlift there isn't a specific deadlift form. Just deadlift how your body lets you, dont try too hard to change this or change that will only end up pulling less, kk pulls like he does, Andy B has his style and benni pulls with rolling bar out then in and chuck fought pulls again diff,every lifter has his own style. You'll soon realise were u generate most power and speed from which is important for conventional.
Concentrate on bench and squat as they're more technical, and pull for speed. When you pull for speed you'll find your best tech:- the faster you're pull, the better the tech

I have to disagree about there being no specific DL form. Everyone has there own unique style to an extent, but it's a bad idea to just tell everyone to pull however they want. There always exceptions, but every trainee I've ever come across has benefited from the points made in this thread. Of course their will be those that pull alot without "perfect" form, but they are the exception, not the rule. I base my opinions on training with a many different people of varying strength and going to numerous PL meets and observing the sucessful DL's there as well.

 

[tnubs]

hmm, i should definetly go watch a powerlifting meet. btw, is there anywhere to log a powerlifting journal on here?

 

[SRS2000]

hmm, i should definetly go watch a powerlifting meet. btw, is there anywhere to log a powerlifting journal on here?

It would be good to go see a meet. If you look at the missed lifts, you can see why some of the lifts were missed and figure out how to prevent it in your lifts. You can also pick up some really good training ideas if you talk to other people.
Even better is competing in a meet yourself. You learn so much more that way than you do in the gym.

 

[tnubs]

i think im going to start peaking all my lifts and start working with singles instead of always sticking with 5's and then i will try to find a competition to enter, it just sucks they cost so much to enter, which is a limiting factor.

 

[youngandfree]

Like was stated above, I start my deadlift with a "bottom of a deep squat" stance. Hands just outside knees, deep arch in back, butt out,deep breath, head pointing slightly up, and drive through the floor. I tell people to stick your butt out like the hot chick does so it attracts attention. And I say, yes you will look silly poking it out that far. My focus is more pushing through my heels than pulling up the weight, if that makes sense. you should come up in one smooth motion until you are standing tall. and yes scraping your shins is kind of a badge of honor. You can just wear training pants it you bleed too much. My wife and alot of people with bad form will pull in almost 2 seperate moves. Usually as they are bent over and start, the first move is they will straighten their legs, and then extend at the waist after.

And I feel there is a defference in speed and power. Blasting through the set is dangerous if you release the tention in your back. Ask me how I know. 3 weeks ago was DL 290 or 300 which I can rep out 6-8 usually. On rep 5 halfway up, I barely released tension and my back cracked 3 times and felt like someone stuck a knife in me. Pinched a nerve and was done for the weekend. You should generate power as you pull, and control the weight as you go back down. Make sure you reset your form if you have to before the next pull.

I swear by deads but I'm not a competitive powerlifter, so it's just not worth getting hurt pushing the envelope to the limit, especially with bad form.

 

[Sk8erboy]

Keep your hips down, and try to sit back with the weight more. Looks like the weight was over your toes; you should be pulling with your heels.

I agree bring you butt a tad bit down and watch the arching over your lower back you wanna keep the bar as close as possible to you especially when deadlifting heavy