cortisol blocker necessary for hdrol PCT?
- 01-15-2011, 08:00 PM
- 01-15-2011, 08:12 PM
- 01-18-2011, 03:43 PM
nothing besides a SERM is needed really (if you are trying to run a pct on the cheap)
but the point of pct is try to try keep all your gains so ppl like to do everything possible to do that (add test booster and cort control)
01-23-2011, 09:13 AM
Its not required but if you decide to tackle this issue, it will help tremendously in your efforts to retain most of your gains. Endoamp Max and Ibcaa's are my 2 go to supps to combat cortisol.
( at heart )
01-23-2011, 06:12 PM
ive seen literally NO evidence for cortisol blockers helping in pct
anecdotal perhaps, but actual bloods... noop
01-23-2011, 06:13 PM
01-23-2011, 10:10 PM
I have some experience in using glucocorticoids and antiglucorticoids along with AAS. At one point I have even used mifepristone (which acts as a competitive antagonist of the glucocorticoid receptor) to restore my cortisol levels after heavy corticosteroid use. ACTH levels were off the chart. I overlapped this with PCT just to see if the cortisol control theory had any merit. I noticed absolutely no change (positive or negative) in recovery during PCT even after using such a powerful antiglucocorticoid.
HDrol is not very suppressive and if you work as hard as you did on cycle and use a SERM conservatively, I think you should keep most of your gains. You shouldn't really need any test boosters (with a SERM your test levels should be back to normal in a couple of weeks tops) etc for a mild cycle like this IMO.
01-24-2011, 12:41 AM
I am about to start a Hdrol cycle and was gonna run it 75/75/75/75/100 then for pct run nolva 20/20/10/10 with pct revolution (cels pct assist is back ordered). Does that sound like a sufficient enough pct? Anyone have any experience with pct revolution?
01-24-2011, 12:50 AM
01-24-2011, 12:54 AM
should I use a test booster or is that just going to keep messing with my natural production instead of letting my body take back over to its natural state
01-24-2011, 01:00 AM
Might I recomment staying under 200mg of caffein per serving as well?
I've always had this superstition that anything over that can result in unwanted rises in cortisol, ever since I read a few articles about it. Worth a shot.
And I've always been a fan of Iforce's Reversitol V2.
01-24-2011, 02:23 AM
Cortisol will compete with Testosterone. Imo, you want to dampen the presence of Cortisol, its a safe bet.
( at heart )
01-24-2011, 04:44 PM
01-24-2011, 06:56 PM
01-24-2011, 08:12 PM
01-24-2011, 08:35 PM
01-24-2011, 08:48 PM
01-24-2011, 11:57 PM
01-25-2011, 12:09 AM
01-25-2011, 12:15 AM
Lot's of good input in this post.... I've run hdrol a few times with diff. pct each time...My experience, cortisol supp = waste of $...
I like just nolva or clomi, and Recycle.
01-25-2011, 10:58 AM
01-25-2011, 01:03 PM
01-26-2011, 12:44 AM
01-26-2011, 12:57 AM
-AlphaSize®Improvement in key brain functions, including memory, concentration, learning, recall, and focus.
Prevention of memory loss, especially age-related cognitive decline.
Reduction of elevated cortisol levels and reduction of stress.
Improvement in athletic activities including running, weightlifting, and golf.
Helps reduce fatigue, reduces muscle soreness, and hastens recovery, in active and athletic individuals.
Your vitamin C doing all of this?Improvement in key brain functions, including memory, concentration, learning, recall, and focus.
Useful in combating dementias and various forms of cognitive decline.
Promotes formation of acetylcholine (AC), a vital neurotransmitter compound involved in all key brain functions and mental sharpness.
Helps speed cell to cell communication through neuromuscular optimization, providing enhanced muscular power output and agility for active and athletic individuals.
Physiological production and maintenance of human growth hormone (HGH), the body’s master hormone for maintaining youth, vitality, and body composition.
01-26-2011, 01:29 AM
without vitamin c, you die...
is your endo amp doing that?
btw.. vitamin c is way cheaper... and very effective
The effects of vitamin C supplementation on the alterations in the circulating concentrations of cortisol, adrenaline, interleukin-10 (IL-10) and interleukin-1 receptor antagonist (IL-1Ra) which accompany ultramarathon running were measured using immuno-chemiluminescence, radioimmunoassay and ELISA procedures. Forty-five participants in the 1999 Comrades 90 km marathon were divided into equal groups (n = 15) receiving 500 mg/day Vit C (VC-500), 1500 mg/day Vit C (VC-1500) or placebo (P) for 7 days before the race, on the day of the race, and for 2 days following completion. Runners recorded dietary intake before, during and after the race and provided 35 ml blood samples 15 - 18 hrs before the race, immediately post-race, 24 hrs post race and 48 hrs post-race. Twenty-nine runners (VC-1500, n = 12; VC-500, n = 10; P, n = 7) complied with all study requirements. All post-race concentrations were adjusted for plasma volume changes. Analyses of dietary intakes and blood glucose and anti-oxidant status on the day preceding the race and the day of the race did not reveal that carbohydrate intake or plasma vitamins E and A were significant confounders in the study. Mean pre-race concentrations of serum vitamin C in VC-500 and VC-1500 groups (128 +/- 31 and 153 +/- 34 micromol/l) were significantly higher than in the P group (83 +/- 39 micromol/l). Immediate post-race serum cortisol was significantly lower in the VC-1500 group (p < 0.05) than in P and VC-500 groups. When the data from VC-500 and P groups was combined (n = 17), immediate post-race plasma adrenaline, IL-10 and IL-1Ra concentrations were also significantly lower (p < 0.05) in the VC-1500 group. The study demonstrates an attenuation, albeit transient, of both the adrenal stress hormone and anti-inflammatory polypeptide response to prolonged exercise in runners who supplemented with 1500 mg vitamin C per day when compared to < or = 500 mg per day.
Oh and btw.. i have read a study about Phosphatidyl Serine, what strays me from it (your product) is the price...
endoamp 52 dollars on your site
vitamin c is 6 dollars..
Phosphatidyl Serine tabs can be found for 16 bucks as well...
but vitamin c, is really imo all that is needed for cortisol suppression during/after pct
im done, but SICK job with the hype bro
01-26-2011, 01:53 AM
Vitamin C is a great vitamin, but it can only do so much. I don't remember the last time someone was willing to spring for Primo, but was too cheap to buy a decent PCT product
BODY PERFORMANCE SOLUTIONS REP
Sustain Alpha is back!
01-26-2011, 02:32 AM
primo isnt expensive, as a matter of fact, its around the same price as endoamp per 20ml vial...
another rep... you didnt used to be did you?
all i was saying is that serm plus test booster ai already puts people over 100 bucks for pct... thats already more than the hdrol in this case costs and for sure more than people are usually willing to spend..... all im saying is that endoamp may have its place in cortisol control, and may do a good job at it...
if vitamin c suppresses cortisol (----) this much
& endoamp suppresses cortisol (-----) this much... why spend so much extra cash? because of the nice label ?
if it does, what ingredient in your product is proven to increase igf1 and gh
and btw... i am not cheap when it comes to cycles or training at all... i get bloodwork, i use serms, and PROVEN test boosters i use tudca or udca AND your liver juice lv (this is worth the money)
01-26-2011, 10:55 AM
In clinical research, GHRH was given to eight young and seven old human volunteers, with or without the addition of alpha-GPC. The results were that alpha-GPC successfully potentiated the stimulatory effect of GHRH on GH secretion in both young and old subjects.4 In a follow-up study, alpha-GPC was tested in 10 normal elderly subjects (aged 79.4 ± 1.7 years). The subjects were given GHRH with alpha-GPC. The results demonstrated that when alpha-GPC was administered with GHRH, the GH responses were significantly higher than those found after GHRH alone.[xi] The results of these two studies show that alpha-GPC is able to help promote GH release in both young and old. [Source]
Also, thanks for accusing me of hype marketing, but that is simply not the case. If anyone has been able to prolong the discussion of this product, it has been you challenging it and or asking questions. I simply provided the responses.
01-26-2011, 03:59 PM
Been using vit C for years, however there are too many OTHER benefits from EndoAmp to not be utilized in PCT. fwiw
01-26-2011, 04:21 PM
01-26-2011, 04:48 PM
I myself and I think others are NOT convinced or swayed one bit by Swolen87's point. You can get plenty of vit C in your diet, although I still supplement with it, but good luck trying to get enough of whats in Endoamp Max in your daily diet.
( at heart )
01-26-2011, 04:56 PM
hey I was about to run a hdrol cycle at 50/75/75/75/100 and for pct was going to use nolva 20/20/10/10 with AI pct assist.. should I be incorporating other products into this pct? This is my first cycle and im unsure of whether or not that covers all my bases, just want to be safe rather than sorry
01-26-2011, 06:25 PM
this is exactly what i would say if i was a rep.....
im done... im not going to argue with 5 reps from your company...
here is my point.....90% of the non hormonal supplements on these forums are crap and a total waste of money imo.... all im trying to say, is that for a cost/benefit ratio, i think ill stick with the cheaper of the two........
bashman excuse me if im a ****... sometimes thats just how i am... i apologize if i take it too far sometimes.....
01-26-2011, 06:36 PM
01-26-2011, 06:39 PM
You could feel free to respond to me. I actually welcome it after throwing in that last bit about worthless supplements, but cowardly not responding to a post i made concerning the effectiveness you eagerly doubt.
01-26-2011, 07:00 PM
i use the liverjuice because of regular milk thistles poor bioavailability. plus regular milk thistle costs about 10 bucks... i got my liverjuice for 18 dollars.... that to me is worth the price.... i also feel that liver toxicity is something people tend to look over, and i also reccomend the use of tudca or udca along with the liver juice... ( you only have one liver )
oh, the primo, is cheap, lab tested, and legit.. (if this were a different forum, i could tell you where its from and where it was tested) but thanks for your concern, ill end with this... endoamp may have its benefits, and may do a decent job at supressing cortisol, but imo, it is not worth the money as vitamin c does a great job by itself.
01-26-2011, 07:02 PM
01-26-2011, 08:35 PM
01-26-2011, 09:22 PM
01-26-2011, 10:02 PM
Vitamin C: This vitamin, mainly known for it's anti-oxidant properties, may also have some anti-cortisol effects. A study done by Stone entitled "Effects of Vitamin C on Cortisol and the Testosterone: Cortisol Ratio" showed a decrease in cortisol levels in 17 junior elite weight lifters. This study also showed that the individuals taking Vitamin C (an extra gram a day) improved their testosterone:cortisol ratio by over 20%. This type of decrease in cortisol can lead to increased muscle and connective-tissue hypertrophy and enhanced recovery from training. Since Vitamin C also decreases your chances of suffering from a cold or flu infection by 30% (14) and may aid in collagen synthesis, it would be wise to take some extra vitamin C when involved in an intense weight-training program
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