cortisol blocker necessary for hdrol PCT?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    endoamp 52 dollars on your site

    but vitamin c, is really imo all that is needed for cortisol suppression during/after pct
    Endoamp is more than just a cortisol blocker. It raises mental acuity through A-GPC and also increase GH and IGF-1. These are two hormones that are specfically lowered by the most commonly used SERMs and AIs. Endoamp is more than just cortisol control.

    Vitamin C is a great vitamin, but it can only do so much. I don't remember the last time someone was willing to spring for Primo, but was too cheap to buy a decent PCT product
    BODY PERFORMANCE SOLUTIONS REP
    Sustain Alpha is back!


  2. primo isnt expensive, as a matter of fact, its around the same price as endoamp per 20ml vial...

    another rep... you didnt used to be did you?

    all i was saying is that serm plus test booster ai already puts people over 100 bucks for pct... thats already more than the hdrol in this case costs and for sure more than people are usually willing to spend..... all im saying is that endoamp may have its place in cortisol control, and may do a good job at it...

    if vitamin c suppresses cortisol (----) this much
    & endoamp suppresses cortisol (-----) this much... why spend so much extra cash? because of the nice label ?

    if it does, what ingredient in your product is proven to increase igf1 and gh


    and btw... i am not cheap when it comes to cycles or training at all... i get bloodwork, i use serms, and PROVEN test boosters i use tudca or udca AND your liver juice lv (this is worth the money)
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    without vitamin c, you die...

    is your endo amp doing that?

    btw.. vitamin c is way cheaper... and very effective
    I never stated not to use Vitamin C, I stated both are a perfect combo.

    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    The effects of vitamin C supplementation on the alterations in the circulating concentrations of cortisol, adrenaline, interleukin-10 (IL-10) and interleukin-1 receptor antagonist (IL-1Ra) which accompany ultramarathon running were measured using immuno-chemiluminescence, radioimmunoassay and ELISA procedures. Forty-five participants in the 1999 Comrades 90 km marathon were divided into equal groups (n = 15) receiving 500 mg/day Vit C (VC-500), 1500 mg/day Vit C (VC-1500) or placebo (P) for 7 days before the race, on the day of the race, and for 2 days following completion. Runners recorded dietary intake before, during and after the race and provided 35 ml blood samples 15 - 18 hrs before the race, immediately post-race, 24 hrs post race and 48 hrs post-race. Twenty-nine runners (VC-1500, n = 12; VC-500, n = 10; P, n = 7) complied with all study requirements. All post-race concentrations were adjusted for plasma volume changes. Analyses of dietary intakes and blood glucose and anti-oxidant status on the day preceding the race and the day of the race did not reveal that carbohydrate intake or plasma vitamins E and A were significant confounders in the study. Mean pre-race concentrations of serum vitamin C in VC-500 and VC-1500 groups (128 +/- 31 and 153 +/- 34 micromol/l) were significantly higher than in the P group (83 +/- 39 micromol/l). Immediate post-race serum cortisol was significantly lower in the VC-1500 group (p < 0.05) than in P and VC-500 groups. When the data from VC-500 and P groups was combined (n = 17), immediate post-race plasma adrenaline, IL-10 and IL-1Ra concentrations were also significantly lower (p < 0.05) in the VC-1500 group. The study demonstrates an attenuation, albeit transient, of both the adrenal stress hormone and anti-inflammatory polypeptide response to prolonged exercise in runners who supplemented with 1500 mg vitamin C per day when compared to < or = 500 mg per day.
    I don't doubt there are 100s of studies on the benefits of Vitamin C, again I advocate taking it year round. So thanks for the information, but I am already convinced.

    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    Oh and btw.. i have read a study about Phosphatidyl Serine, what strays me from it (your product) is the price...

    endoamp 52 dollars on your site

    vitamin c is 6 dollars..

    Phosphatidyl Serine tabs can be found for 16 bucks as well...
    If you are ok from sourcing from an unknown, with limited purity guarantee, then I would go for the price as well, certainly attractive. Im much happier knowing mine is using a ChemiNutra sourced product. Some are willing to pay for quality, and quality is something we pride ourselves in.

    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    but vitamin c, is really imo all that is needed for cortisol suppression during/after pct
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    im done, but SICK job with the hype bro
    What hype? Those quotations were taken directly from ChemiNutra, not Primordial. Their patented ingredients that we utilized are very highly regarded, so I think their company is allowed to brag alittle bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    all i was saying is that serm plus test booster ai already puts people over 100 bucks for pct... thats already more than the hdrol in this case costs and for sure more than people are usually willing to spend..... all im saying is that endoamp may have its place in cortisol control, and may do a good job at it...
    If you think that PCT shouldn't cost more than a PH in the 25-40 range, then you don't regard your health with as much concern as most would advocate. I am willing to spend what I need to on a PCT. And since based on your current attitude presented towards me being affiliated with the company, I will state I had used it previous to the position with my own money, and the position became available to me after I had become quite acquainted with the products.

    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    if vitamin c suppresses cortisol (----) this much
    & endoamp suppresses cortisol (-----) this much... why spend so much extra cash? because of the nice label ?
    I do believe, although I may be mistaken, that we did post numerous reasons that EndoAmp is an advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    if it does, what ingredient in your product is proven to increase igf1 and gh
    In addition to its applications for memory and cerebrovascular health, Alpha-GPC may also help promote healthy levels of growth hormone. Here's how it works. Consider that anticholinergic drugs have been shown to diminish GH response, while drugs able to increase acetylcholine transmission are able to potentiate the stimulatory effect of growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH)[ix] [x] by decreasing the release of somatostatin (a hormone that inhibits GH release). With aging, the imbalance between stimulatory (GHRH) and inhibitory (somatostatin) activities on GH secretion leads to an enhanced somatostatin action and decreased GH release.

    In clinical research, GHRH was given to eight young and seven old human volunteers, with or without the addition of alpha-GPC. The results were that alpha-GPC successfully potentiated the stimulatory effect of GHRH on GH secretion in both young and old subjects.4 In a follow-up study, alpha-GPC was tested in 10 normal elderly subjects (aged 79.4 1.7 years). The subjects were given GHRH with alpha-GPC. The results demonstrated that when alpha-GPC was administered with GHRH, the GH responses were significantly higher than those found after GHRH alone.[xi] The results of these two studies show that alpha-GPC is able to help promote GH release in both young and old. [Source]

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1577400

    http://www.jissn.com/content/5/S1/P15


    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    and btw... i am not cheap when it comes to cycles or training at all... i get bloodwork, i use serms, and PROVEN test boosters i use tudca or udca AND your liver juice lv (this is worth the money)
    I thank you for being a customer of ours and, like me, enjoying the use of our Liver Juice. However there must be a reason you are willing to pay for the quality of Liver Juice over a generic milk thistle product. Most likely because you want the supplement do perform as best as possible and as effectively as possible, and that is what I am saying that EndoAmp offers over standard Vitamin C Supplementation.

    Also, thanks for accusing me of hype marketing, but that is simply not the case. If anyone has been able to prolong the discussion of this product, it has been you challenging it and or asking questions. I simply provided the responses.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy

  4. Been using vit C for years, however there are too many OTHER benefits from EndoAmp to not be utilized in PCT. fwiw


  5. Jesus swollen87 are you capable of posting without starting an argument?
    •   
       


  6. I myself and I think others are NOT convinced or swayed one bit by Swolen87's point. You can get plenty of vit C in your diet, although I still supplement with it, but good luck trying to get enough of whats in Endoamp Max in your daily diet.
    Primordial Performance
    ( at heart )

  7. hey I was about to run a hdrol cycle at 50/75/75/75/100 and for pct was going to use nolva 20/20/10/10 with AI pct assist.. should I be incorporating other products into this pct? This is my first cycle and im unsure of whether or not that covers all my bases, just want to be safe rather than sorry

  8. Quote Originally Posted by rulk22 View Post
    I myself and I think others are NOT convinced or swayed one bit by Swolen87's point. You can get plenty of vit C in your diet, although I still supplement with it, but good luck trying to get enough of whats in Endoamp Max in your daily diet.

    this is exactly what i would say if i was a rep.....

    im done... im not going to argue with 5 reps from your company...

    here is my point.....90% of the non hormonal supplements on these forums are crap and a total waste of money imo.... all im trying to say, is that for a cost/benefit ratio, i think ill stick with the cheaper of the two........

    bashman excuse me if im a ****... sometimes thats just how i am... i apologize if i take it too far sometimes.....
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html

  9. Quote Originally Posted by leet2010 View Post
    hey I was about to run a hdrol cycle at 50/75/75/75/100 and for pct was going to use nolva 20/20/10/10 with AI pct assist.. should I be incorporating other products into this pct? This is my first cycle and im unsure of whether or not that covers all my bases, just want to be safe rather than sorry
    Does H-drol Aromatize? Im a little new to this, and curious as to why you are adding it to your cycle.

  10. You could feel free to respond to me. I actually welcome it after throwing in that last bit about worthless supplements, but cowardly not responding to a post i made concerning the effectiveness you eagerly doubt.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy

  11. Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I never stated not to use Vitamin C, I stated both are a perfect combo.


    I don't doubt there are 100s of studies on the benefits of Vitamin C, again I advocate taking it year round. So thanks for the information, but I am already convinced.



    If you are ok from sourcing from an unknown, with limited purity guarantee, then I would go for the price as well, certainly attractive. Im much happier knowing mine is using a ChemiNutra sourced product. Some are willing to pay for quality, and quality is something we pride ourselves in.





    What hype? Those quotations were taken directly from ChemiNutra, not Primordial. Their patented ingredients that we utilized are very highly regarded, so I think their company is allowed to brag alittle bit.



    If you think that PCT shouldn't cost more than a PH in the 25-40 range, then you don't regard your health with as much concern as most would advocate. I am willing to spend what I need to on a PCT. And since based on your current attitude presented towards me being affiliated with the company, I will state I had used it previous to the position with my own money, and the position became available to me after I had become quite acquainted with the products.


    I do believe, although I may be mistaken, that we did post numerous reasons that EndoAmp is an advantage.



    In addition to its applications for memory and cerebrovascular health, Alpha-GPC may also help promote healthy levels of growth hormone. Here's how it works. Consider that anticholinergic drugs have been shown to diminish GH response, while drugs able to increase acetylcholine transmission are able to potentiate the stimulatory effect of growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH)[ix] [x] by decreasing the release of somatostatin (a hormone that inhibits GH release). With aging, the imbalance between stimulatory (GHRH) and inhibitory (somatostatin) activities on GH secretion leads to an enhanced somatostatin action and decreased GH release.

    In clinical research, GHRH was given to eight young and seven old human volunteers, with or without the addition of alpha-GPC. The results were that alpha-GPC successfully potentiated the stimulatory effect of GHRH on GH secretion in both young and old subjects.4 In a follow-up study, alpha-GPC was tested in 10 normal elderly subjects (aged 79.4 1.7 years). The subjects were given GHRH with alpha-GPC. The results demonstrated that when alpha-GPC was administered with GHRH, the GH responses were significantly higher than those found after GHRH alone.[xi] The results of these two studies show that alpha-GPC is able to help promote GH release in both young and old. [Source]

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1577400

    http://www.jissn.com/content/5/S1/P15




    I thank you for being a customer of ours and, like me, enjoying the use of our Liver Juice. However there must be a reason you are willing to pay for the quality of Liver Juice over a generic milk thistle product. Most likely because you want the supplement do perform as best as possible and as effectively as possible, and that is what I am saying that EndoAmp offers over standard Vitamin C Supplementation.

    Also, thanks for accusing me of hype marketing, but that is simply not the case. If anyone has been able to prolong the discussion of this product, it has been you challenging it and or asking questions. I simply provided the responses.

    good info

    i use the liverjuice because of regular milk thistles poor bioavailability. plus regular milk thistle costs about 10 bucks... i got my liverjuice for 18 dollars.... that to me is worth the price.... i also feel that liver toxicity is something people tend to look over, and i also reccomend the use of tudca or udca along with the liver juice... ( you only have one liver )

    oh, the primo, is cheap, lab tested, and legit.. (if this were a different forum, i could tell you where its from and where it was tested) but thanks for your concern, ill end with this... endoamp may have its benefits, and may do a decent job at supressing cortisol, but imo, it is not worth the money as vitamin c does a great job by itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html

  12. Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post

    bashman excuse me if im a ****... sometimes thats just how i am... i apologize if i take it too far sometimes.....
    Im saying just chill a bit. It is a forum after all so people are entitled to give their opinion.

    I'll agree that there are other, possibly cheaper, alternatives that can work nearly if not just as effectively as some of PP's stuff.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    this is exactly what i would say if i was a rep.....

    im done... im not going to argue with 5 reps from your company...

    here is my point.....90% of the non hormonal supplements on these forums are crap and a total waste of money imo.... all im trying to say, is that for a cost/benefit ratio, i think ill stick with the cheaper of the two........

    bashman excuse me if im a ****... sometimes thats just how i am... i apologize if i take it too far sometimes.....
    That is your opinion, and many agree, I however never have even before I started repping for PP. To each his own good sir


  14. Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    good info

    i use the liverjuice because of regular milk thistles poor bioavailability. plus regular milk thistle costs about 10 bucks... i got my liverjuice for 18 dollars.... that to me is worth the price.... i also feel that liver toxicity is something people tend to look over, and i also reccomend the use of tudca or udca along with the liver juice... ( you only have one liver )

    oh, the primo, is cheap, lab tested, and legit.. (if this were a different forum, i could tell you where its from and where it was tested) but thanks for your concern, ill end with this... endoamp may have its benefits, and may do a decent job at supressing cortisol, but imo, it is not worth the money as vitamin c does a great job by itself.
    That is your opinion, and I am not here to convince you other wise. Everyone has a price level they are wiling to invest in (Such as you have with the Liver), I was merely defending the product to be more than just cortisol control, and be a better pick for PCT than just Vitamin C.
    Just inject.
    Facebook:
    www.facebook.com/heretostudy

  15. Vitamin C: This vitamin, mainly known for it's anti-oxidant properties, may also have some anti-cortisol effects. A study done by Stone entitled "Effects of Vitamin C on Cortisol and the Testosterone: Cortisol Ratio" showed a decrease in cortisol levels in 17 junior elite weight lifters. This study also showed that the individuals taking Vitamin C (an extra gram a day) improved their testosterone:cortisol ratio by over 20%. This type of decrease in cortisol can lead to increased muscle and connective-tissue hypertrophy and enhanced recovery from training. Since Vitamin C also decreases your chances of suffering from a cold or flu infection by 30% (14) and may aid in collagen synthesis, it would be wise to take some extra vitamin C when involved in an intense weight-training program

  16. Controlling Cortisol Levels
    Here are some solid tips to help control cortisol levels:

    1) Diet: Make sure you are supplying your body with all the essential nutrients you need to prevent deficiencies and for optimal function. This includes plenty of high-quality protein, complex carbohydrates, essential fatty acids, and vitamins and minerals. Try not to restrict calories continuously as some research suggests that restricting normal caloric intake by 50% can lead to a subsequent increase in cortisol levels by 38%. (10)

    2) Do not overtrain: Try not to work out three or more days in a row without taking a day off. Keep workouts to under an hour at the most and train efficiently and intensely. I know this phrase has been beaten to death but LISTEN TO YOUR BODY!

    Take enough rest days between workouts - If you are really sore, then wait an extra day to train until your body fully recovers from your previous workout. Remember, less may be more in this case.

    4) Relax and try not to get stressed out easily: Take an evening walk with a loved one or take a nap when you get a chance.

    5) Try to get at least eight hours of sleep per night: Sleep is crucial to the recovery and recuperation process.

    6) Spike Insulin levels after a workout: Insulin actually interferes with cortisol and may enhance cortisol clearance from the body. Spiking insulin levels after a workout (by consuming a high-glycemic index carbohydrate) may help minimize excessive cortisol levels since cortisol levels are elevated significantly post resistance training.

    Supplements that may help control increased cortisol levels secondary to intense exercise
    Phosphatidylserine (PS):This phospholipid, which has been known mainly for its cognitive effects, seems to have cortisol-suppressive properties. Recent research shows that 800 mg Phosphatidylserine given in two divided oral doses helps suppress cortisol secondary to intense weight training. (11) In fact, in this same study, the individuals using PS experienced less muscle soreness as well. Earlier research by Monteleone confirms these results. By decreasing cortisol levels, the testosterone: cortisol ratio can increase possibly relating to anabolic effects. PS seems to only decrease cortisol levels when they are elevated and does not seem to decrease cortisol levels below normal. Decreasing cortisol levels or suppression of cortisol production is not desired in many instances as it may cause adverse effects such as a decrease in reaction time to wounds and healing mechanisms in the body. There are two forms of PS available: a brain cortex derivative and a soy lecithin derivative. The brain cortex PS has been used in most of the studies and shown to be effective.

    Acetyl-L-carnitine: This is basically the acetylated ester of L-carnitine. This supplement may help prevent the decline in testosterone that occurs during and after an intense resistance training session. It seems to lessen the response to stress.

    L-Glutamine: This is the most abundant free amino acid in muscle tissue. (12) It seems to play a very important role in protein synthesis and is very important to weight-training athletes. Some research suggests that glutamine levels may be a good indicator of overtraining or overreaching. (12) In other words, athletes who were overtrained generally had low levels of glutamine along with high levels of cortisol. One study actually showed that glutamine directly prevents the cortisol-induced degradation of muscle contractile proteins.(13) Some of its positive effects include enhancing protein synthesis; increasing GH levels, which can counteract some of the catabolic effects of cortisol; potent cell-volumizing effects, which can create an anabolic environment in muscle cells; and partially determining the rate of protein turnover in the muscle. An oral glutamine supplement can help athletes prevent some of the symptoms of overtraining. It may also enhance glycogen synthesis through an unknown mechanism. It also helps provide a source of fuel for the small intestine and may enhance anti-inflammatory function. It has been shown to boost immune function. I hope you get the point -Glutamine is a vital nutrient for weight-training athletes.

    Vitamin C: This vitamin, mainly known for it's anti-oxidant properties, may also have some anti-cortisol effects. A study done by Stone entitled "Effects of Vitamin C on Cortisol and the Testosterone: Cortisol Ratio" showed a decrease in cortisol levels in 17 junior elite weight lifters. This study also showed that the individuals taking Vitamin C (an extra gram a day) improved their testosterone:cortisol ratio by over 20%. This type of decrease in cortisol can lead to increased muscle and connective-tissue hypertrophy and enhanced recovery from training. Since Vitamin C also decreases your chances of suffering from a cold or flu infection by 30% (14) and may aid in collagen synthesis, it would be wise to take some extra vitamin C when involved in an intense weight-training program.

    Zinc: A mineral that is an essential cofactor in over 300 enzymatic reactions in the body including testosterone synthesis and steroid hormone production. Getting enough zinc may make the difference between making great gains and only making average gains in a weight training program.

    Vitamin A: This vitamin, which is often times used for healthy skin function, may also minimize cortisol levels according to Dr. Sapse. He suggested this in an abstract he presented at the 1997 conference on cortisol and anti-cortisols. (8)

    Gingko Biloba: This herb is mainly used for its excellent cognitive effects by increasing blood flow and oxygen to the brain, which can lead to greater mental focus and concentration. It may also have additional benefits of decreasing cortisol levels according to an abstract presented at the 1997 conference on cortisol and anti-cortisols. (15) The anti-stress and neuroprotective effects of ginkgo biloba in this study were due to its effect on glucocorticoid biosynthesis. The EGb 761 standardized gingko biloba extract was used in this study and many of the studies showing that it enhances cognition.

    DHEA: This natural hormone of the adrenal glands that declines after the age of 30 seems to have some powerful anti-cortisol effects. Many abstracts presented at the 1997 conference on cortisol and anti-cortisols discussed DHEA's role in decreasing cortisol levels. DHEA is fat soluble so it can cross the blood-brain barrier and have some effects on cognition as well.

    Androstenedione: This prohormone is a direct precursor to testosterone, which may explain its anti-cortisol effects since increases in testosterone can blunt elevated cortisol levels secondary to intense weight training. Different metabolites of androstenedione and testosterone, such as 4-androstenediol, 5-androstendiol, and nornadrostenediol, may also exert some anti-cortisol effects. However, more research needs to be done in this area to make this clear!

    Androstenetriol: This steroid metabolite, which is chemically known as Delta 5-androstene-3b,7b,17b,triol, was shown in an abstract presented at the 1997 conference on cortisol and anti-cortisols to counteract the immunological effects of glucocorticoids. (16) This is an interesting compound that definitely needs to be looked at further.

    Conclusion
    This is a subject that will be studied thoroughly in the future. Studies investigating supplemental strategies against cortisol may help weight trainers get the most out of their workouts and help enhance the recovery and recuperation process. Now before you think suppressing cortisol levels can make you Hercules, remember, cortisol levels are one piece to a large and complex puzzle. It takes a combination of proper training, nutrition, and supplementation to achieve your true muscle-building potential. However, getting cortisol levels checked by your doctor and implementing strategies against cortisol may be a good idea, especially during a calorie-restrictive dieting phase. So, the next time you feel tired, sluggish, or sore for an abnormally long time in your weight-training program, and you don't know why, look into cortisol levels, and you might find the answer


    there you go...your welcome

  17. sick job copy and pasting brah
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html

  18. Quote Originally Posted by vpower View Post
    Does H-drol Aromatize? Im a little new to this, and curious as to why you are adding it to your cycle.
    Im using nolva because at that dose of hdrol for that long my natural production gets pretty shut down... Would anyone mind advising me on my pct? Wanna make sure I keep it safe

  19. Quote Originally Posted by leet2010 View Post
    Im using nolva because at that dose of hdrol for that long my natural production gets pretty shut down... Would anyone mind advising me on my pct? Wanna make sure I keep it safe

    use a serm..

    nolva 20/20/10/10
    or
    clomid 150/100/50/50

    you can either run an ai inverse to the serm.. like atd 4/3/2/1
    or just have an ai on hand...

    a natrual test booster like bulk daa (testforce)

    something for cortisol... i just use vitamin c and mad food... (use endoamp if u wanna spend more money)

    you should be using something for liver support during pct as well.. liver juice or tudca, NAC, SAMe...ect

    you do all that then you get blood tests... just to make sure youre recovered...
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html

  20. so should I even buy anabolic innovations pct support supp?
    also, bulk daa is the same product as the tcf-1?

    and your suggesting I run inhibit e 4 pills a day/3pills a day/2.. etc. along with the nolva?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by leet2010 View Post
    so should I even buy anabolic innovations pct support supp?
    also, bulk daa is the same product as the tcf-1?

    and your suggesting I run inhibit e 4 pills a day/3pills a day/2.. etc. along with the nolva?
    TCF-1 Features sodium D-aspartate, the same exact compound that showed such a large increase in test as found in the original study. This is not saying that your bulk would not be the same, but I would check. TCF-1 Also provides convenient dosing as well as it tastes very good.
    Just inject.
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    www.facebook.com/heretostudy

  22. so would nolva 20/20/10/10 with inhibit e(atd) at 4pills/3pills/2/1 along with lean xtreme and liver juice be a sufficient pct for my cycle?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by leet2010 View Post
    so would nolva 20/20/10/10 with inhibit e(atd) at 4pills/3pills/2/1 along with lean xtreme and liver juice be a sufficient pct for my cycle?
    DO NOT USE ATD!! ATD is not only a major libido killer, but it acts as an anti-androgen in the brain.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  24. Ok, minus the atd is that a sufficient pct? What should or shouldn't I incorporate?

  25. Quote Originally Posted by leet2010 View Post
    Ok, minus the atd is that a sufficient pct? What should or shouldn't I incorporate?
    From what I understand, and please correct me if I'm wrong, ATD is a type of AI. ATD is a type of AI that is known as a Suicide Inhibitor. Most that I know of don't like using ATD's due to the fact that it kills the aromitase enzyme. Another and more popular AI you should read up on is a Competitive Inhibitor. In a Comp Inhibitor the molecule just fills the active binding site of the aromatase enzyme and won't let it act on your free test. This means the body still sees the aromatase enzyme floating around and doesn't register to make more enzymes. On the other hand, with something like ATD a suicide inhibitor, the body sees the lack of enzymes (due to ATD killing them) and makes more aromatase enzymes for use. Both will work for PCT, but again most will recommend a competitive AI. Do some reseach on Advanced PCT by Anabolic Xtreme. It contains 6-Bromo which is a Comp AI. Good luck.
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