[Dadof2]

Originally Posted by bLacKjAck.

Ya gotta give it to him though - one hell of an orator.

So was Hitler

[Mo250]

Bush was NOT a conservative economically speaking. Every social program (other than universal health) that most so called "republicans" complain about are a drop in the hat compared to the war spending he's created and bureaucracy we have to "protect us" that he added. Big military is actually a relatively new stance that the republican party has supported and actually something that historically would have been associated with the democrats. As a result many conservatives are still harping on wanting to get a true conservative into office as Bush was anything but (some will argue for his court appointments as being truly conservative). Many feel that McCain is a true conservative and thus they feel he's the guy to fix what Bush screwed up. I strongly disagree as I don't feel he's anymore conservative than most democrats other than a few key issues (guns being the best) where he takes the party line fairly well. Considering when you listen to Obama and you see he's not very strong about leaving Iraq (he was against it from the start) and he is hinting at going into Iran the war issue seems to be a pretty silly reason to vote against McCain even if his 100+ year stance is just insane.

Social programs are separating the classes in the US. Health care got worse when the government started partially funding it. I personally feel the recession was created during the Clinton administration as the economy simple grew too fast and much of the growth was speculative. The war did not help nor did lower taxes while increasing spending. I consider myself about as fiscally conservative as anyone, but knowing that we aren't getting a small government guy elected we need to start hearing people talk about raising taxes AND lowering spending. That's the only conservative and logical thing here.

I personally would have to be held at gun point to vote for either of these two idiots.

[CDB]

Originally Posted by bkprice

and the rich against poor stuff is BS, people are poor becuase they spend their entire life not making the right decisions to up lift there life.

if you like, spend sometimes on looking into what poor people spend money on and how much of it, you will see a pattern that keeps them poor, life can be good or bad, it really your choice.

I would disagree to a point. I spend a good amount of my time dealing with very low wage laborers. Yes, they make bad decisions, and I certainly notice a patter of behavior in their lives that keeps them living in crap. However, there also policies at play, namely inflationary policies, that over time make people tend toward consumption more than savings, which is the basic error most people make. If your money is devaluing it is in fact a better decision to turn it into real wealth, an asset of some kind, than to hold on to it until it is worth a lot less in terms of buying power than it used to be. Under inflationary conditions it is better to be a debtor than a creditor as well, which means resources end up funneling into consumption that would otherwise have been counted under real savings.

In general, the government favors policies that trend toward over-spending, debt, and consumption for its own sake rather then savings, thrift, and productive spending. Those policies affect everyone, including the poor who would otherwise not be so relatively bad off.

[The Brute]

I think Obama is a crowd pleaser. His biggest problem is he doesn't understand the gravity the policies he is advocating. He just tells the people what they want to hear. He doesnt realize the reason we still have troops in Iraq is to keep Radical Dictators like Adhemdijad at bay. Also Universal Healthcare He doesnt realize that most patients in Europe on Universal heathcare get put off and eventually die; It doesnt help people. Also it wont cover all procedures you will still have to carry a private insurience to be fully protected. They act like doctors turn poor people away right and left. This is a load of horse crap everyone gets treated. Mostly its patients griping about the fact that the doctor cant wave his magical scapel over them and it cure morbid obesity, mixed with type 2 diabetes, hypertension, and 30 years of 2 pack a day smoking under their belt. Bottom line is people dont take care of themselves like they use too and blaming the doctors for their stupidity. I have a father who is a surgeon and he has millions in free medical care on his books. Not to metion universal healthcare would ruin doctors they would all become salaried and you can forget about starting a practice in non-elective surgery

[The Brute]

Originally Posted by Bum Mahoney

Bush is a Nazi, but how dare you mention Obama's ties to the Hate America crowd.

How dare you call the president a nazi 1. he has not sweet talked the citizens of america into electing him a dictator. 2. He hasn't orrcastrated a mass genocide of any kind. 3. I hasn't made any anti-semetic or racist slurrs; which Obama's priest and wife have be guilty of. 4. He has no mustache. and last 5. He hasn't made a special salloute for himself, he doesn't have blond or black hair, and He doesn't drive a German vehicle.

[Squeaks4ver]

FLASH!!! Obama voted YES to allow the wire tap bill that Bush has wanted for oh so long. Obama has yet again broke another promis to his Obomadons. Clinton did not vote for it...

[CDB]

Originally Posted by Squeaks4ver

FLASH!!! Obama voted YES to allow the wire tap bill that Bush has wanted for oh so long. Obama has yet again broke another promis to his Obomadons. Clinton did not vote for it...

That's because Clinton got the low down on everybody he wanted it on in the after sex tell all sessions.

[Vermonta]

Originally Posted by EasyEJL

this one alone makes me think that 50 years from now he will be looked back on as a great president, and is a piece of why I still am supportive of him. He's not letting the homos running the media (who use their power to twist public opinion) make his choices for him by showing him polls. He is doing what he believes is right, and is sticking to it "irregardless"

you're a fu.cking moron, the media is run by Conservative Corporate American which runs our country. get out.

[Vermonta]

[quote=The Brute;1427518]How dare you call the president a nazi 1. he has not sweet talked the citizens of america into electing him a dictator. 2. He hasn't orrcastrated a mass genocide of any kind. 3. I hasn't made any anti-semetic or racist slurrs; which Obama's priest and wife have be guilty of. 4. He has no mustache. and last 5. He hasn't made a special salloute for himself, he doesn't have blond or black hair, and He doesn't drive a German vehicle.[/QUOTE]

stunning work.

[Vermonta]

Originally Posted by The Brute

I think Obama is a crowd pleaser. His biggest problem is he doesn't understand the gravity the policies he is advocating. He just tells the people what they want to hear. He doesnt realize the reason we still have troops in Iraq is to keep Radical Dictators like Adhemdijad at bay. Also Universal Healthcare He doesnt realize that most patients in Europe on Universal heathcare get put off and eventually die; It doesnt help people. Also it wont cover all procedures you will still have to carry a private insurience to be fully protected. They act like doctors turn poor people away right and left. This is a load of horse crap everyone gets treated. Mostly its patients griping about the fact that the doctor cant wave his magical scapel over them and it cure morbid obesity, mixed with type 2 diabetes, hypertension, and 30 years of 2 pack a day smoking under their belt. Bottom line is people dont take care of themselves like they use too and blaming the doctors for their stupidity. I have a father who is a surgeon and he has millions in free medical care on his books. Not to metion universal healthcare would ruin doctors they would all become salaried and you can forget about starting a practice in non-elective surgery

Obviously on thebold point. The purpose of universal health care is so people have coverage on the basic needs which is most important.

2nd Bold point. Oh no!!! Daddy might be paided less and not be able to afford that 2nd speed boat if they let the poor get free treatment on the basic neccesities. God forbid.

[Vermonta]

Originally Posted by Mo250

Bush was NOT a conservative economically speaking. Every social program (other than universal health) that most so called "republicans" complain about are a drop in the hat compared to the war spending he's created and bureaucracy we have to "protect us" that he added. Big military is actually a relatively new stance that the republican party has supported and actually something that historically would have been associated with the democrats. As a result many conservatives are still harping on wanting to get a true conservative into office as Bush was anything but (some will argue for his court appointments as being truly conservative). Many feel that McCain is a true conservative and thus they feel he's the guy to fix what Bush screwed up. I strongly disagree as I don't feel he's anymore conservative than most democrats other than a few key issues (guns being the best) where he takes the party line fairly well. Considering when you listen to Obama and you see he's not very strong about leaving Iraq (he was against it from the start) and he is hinting at going into Iran the war issue seems to be a pretty silly reason to vote against McCain even if his 100+ year stance is just insane.

Social programs are separating the classes in the US. Health care got worse when the government started partially funding it. I personally feel the recession was created during the Clinton administration as the economy simple grew too fast and much of the growth was speculative. The war did not help nor did lower taxes while increasing spending. I consider myself about as fiscally conservative as anyone, but knowing that we aren't getting a small government guy elected we need to start hearing people talk about raising taxes AND lowering spending. That's the only conservative and logical thing here.

I personally would have to be held at gun point to vote for either of these two idiots.

You don't know Obama's policy in Iraq. He wants to pull out two brigade a month and be out of there within a year.

[DAdams91982]

Originally Posted by Vermonta

you're a fu.cking moron, the media is run by Conservative Corporate American which runs our country. get out.

You shut your damn mouth. Having a conversation/debate, and stepping out and calling names is commemorate of your age.

Grow up and have a real conversation, or leave.

Oh and if you think conservative America runs the media, you are sadly mistaken. Read Bias by Bernard Goldberg.

Adams

[CDB]

Originally Posted by DAdams91982

Oh and if you think conservative America runs the media, you are sadly mistaken. Read Bias by Bernard Goldberg.

Adams

Actually he may be right about that now, considering Fox News' dominance in the market these days. Of course what drives liberal nuts is that, when given a choice between news outlets, a massive chunk of the country went with a conservative/neocon slant rather than the traditional liberal one. Now I think it would be more accurate to say that the media is controlled by two groups who are both in favor of big government but are otherwise ideologically opposed.

[Frank Costanza]

Originally Posted by CDB

Actually he may be right about that now, considering Fox News' dominance in the market these days.

Pales in comparison to network news and 99% of print news.