Anyone sick of Hugo Chavez besides me ?

[Iron Warrior]

MiamiHerald.com | 11/09/2006 | Chávez attacks Bush as a 'genocidal' leader

According to this crack-smoking lunatic's administration, Bush is worse then Hitler ''Hitler was a babe in arms compared to Bush,'' Apparently it's worse to defend your country from outside threats then it is to exterminate Jews

''defends the most outdated, the most radical form of capitalism'' and added that it was evident to the whole world that the U.S. ``empire is in decline.'' This is a reference to Bush. We're in such bad shape that millions of Latin Americans live here ILLEGALLY Why so much hate against Capitalism ? Last I checked, millions of people were collectively slaughtered by some famous Commies, you might know their names too: Castro, Stalin, Mao. These guys are so popular that I don't have to mention their full names LOL.

'evidence and testimonies'' had emerged in the United States and that ''for the rest of the world, there is no longer any question'' that 9/11 was not an al Qaeda attack. Where's his proof, is it coming from the smoke of a crack-pipe ? I mean sh!t it's not like they didn't try to blow up the towers in 1993. Let's not forget that attempted attack on LAX for Y2K either. They probably looked at the back of a $20 bill and said "ooh, 9+11=20, the bill folded in half looks like the burning towers so they must have done it !"

In a speech Tuesday, Chávez criticized the decision of an Iraqi court to sentence former dictator Saddam Hussein to the death penalty. ''If sentencing is to be done,'' Chávez said, ``the first one to be given the most severe sentence this planet has to offer should be the president of the United States, if we're talking about genocidal presidents.'' This guy obviosly has a hard on for Bush because he can't keep him off his mind LOL. We haven't found mass graves accross the US of dead people who disagreed with Bush's administration, can't say that about Iraq under Hussein's administration, which is why he's going to pay a price.

I don't think one has to be a lef-winger, centrist, or right-winger to have animosity towards this guy. He insults out president just for the sake of insulting him, in OUR OWN COUNTRY and spews bull-crap that he can't prove.


Maybe Chavez should try to promote Noam Chomsky's books for a living because that's the one thing he's been good at LOL.

 

[mp5man1]

I think he’s a President of a small country who likes being in the media and the only way to do it is to say outrages things like this. In the world spectrum I thinks he’s a nobody. I think he thinks so to and it’s killing him so this is what he does to get attention.

 

[DazzlinJack]

Screw Hugo Chavez. He totally sucked in the last boxing match he had against Oscar De La Hoya. I ain't betting on that lunatic again.

 

[glg]

I think he’s a President of a small country who likes being in the media and the only way to do it is to say outrages things like this. In the world spectrum I thinks he’s a nobody. I think he thinks so to and it’s killing him so this is what he does to get attention.

Totally agree !!!

 

[roadrage]

yeah, that guy is a complete idiot.

 

[klugman]

I don't let old Pineapple Head get to me.

Would be nice if the people in Venezuela could get rid of him.

 

[RenegadeRows]

Boston has a big "CITGO" sign in the middle of town, a sort of beacon in Boston, something that has been a flagship when it comes to our skyline.

They're trying to take it down, and replace it with an American flag, after all of Hugo's comments.

 

[CROWLER]

You guys are right of course he is a maniac. The citizens of Venezuela who understand and have access to outside news know he is a dictator and want him GONE!

The citizens who have no internet access and no access to outside news believe he is their savior and the US is horrible. But ask any of them if they would like to be US citizens and they would jump at the chance.

Side note please boycott Citgo gas stations.


CROWLER

 

[pistonpump]

whoever hugo chavez is....

 

[RenegadeRows]

whoever hugo chavez is....

The 'dictator' of Venezuela who is very open about being anti-US/freedom.

 

[jmh80]

The PDVSA is one of the worst run oil companies from what I've read.
Venezuala now pumps way less oil then they did before this moron took over. Yet - he and his cronies maintain they are pumping more.

 

[mmowry]

What I think is totally crazy is how we could have this less than stable and outright hostile individual @ the UN at the same time as his brother in hate Adminijahd.

Would you let someone into your home that threatened your existence;let alone 2 of them.Well thats what we did for the sake of these global community thinkers.:blink: :think:

 

[Iron Warrior]

What I think is totally crazy is how we could have this less than stable and outright hostile individual @ the UN at the same time as his brother in hate Adminijahd.

Would you let someone into your home that threatened your existence;let alone 2 of them.Well thats what we did for the sake of these global community thinkers.:blink: :think:

I agree, all hell would break loose if George Bush went to Iran and/or Venezuela and said the same comments about their elected leaders. It's one thing to disagree but it's quite another to make insults and claims which can't be proven. I guess this caught my attention because I take offense to the things he said. The way I look at it is that he can disagree with his policies in a respectful manner but when he talks all that crap then I actually take offense to it so I then I start this thread

 

[somewhatgifted]

I find his comments extreme, i am not anti american or anti freedon but i also think geroge bush is a nitwit and u.s will be better when anyone replaces him. I dont get all the freedom talk. When hes taken away everyday rights like tooth paste on a plane breast milk, internet search querys, torture, phone tapping. I mean i understand what he says hes doing but does everybody just keep buying into his crap, atleast hugo has the balls to say whats on his mind, justified or not.

 

[Iron Warrior]

When hes taken away everyday rights like tooth paste on a plane breast milk, internet search querys, torture, phone tapping. I mean i understand what he says hes doing but does everybody just keep buying into his crap, atleast hugo has the balls to say whats on his mind, justified or not.

I understand that the breast milk thing is overboard but Bush doesn't oversee every little thing going on with Homeland security. IIRC phone tapping has been legal for a long time. Torture is good IMO against terrorists. Bush is no saint by any means but I do think everyone has a knee jerk reaction to blame him for everything that goes wrong. He was even accused of being culpable for a hate crime commited by 2 white supremacists in Texas in election ads.

 

[somewhatgifted]

I understand that the breast milk thing is overboard but Bush doesn't oversee every little thing going on with Homeland security. IIRC phone tapping has been legal for a long time. Torture is good IMO against terrorists. Bush is no saint by any means but I do think everyone has a knee jerk reaction to blame him for everything that goes wrong. He was even accused of being culpable for a hate crime commited by 2 white supremacists in Texas in election ads.

yeah i dont blame him for everything, and i along with many others may be ignorant. Thats why we have these boards, to educate ourselves throught disccusion, experiments, posting links, news. I feel like this world has so many imminent issues with global warming, pollution, wetland destruction, garbage buildup, immigration, debt, cardiovascular disease (obesity), crime, mutating bacteria, Aids, renewable resources, rebuilding new orleans, natural disasters. I hope the U.s and canadian government make some headway on these issues before there is no world left for husseins, jong ills, chaves to tyrranise.

 

[jmh80]

Doubtful Somewhat.
That would require intelligent politctians that can see the forest instead of just the trees.

I think all this claimoring for another party/president will get us nowhere. People blame Bush - but I don't think there is anyone out there that can do much better.
With the Dems in power, we'll likely be taxed to death (which have been cut as of late).

Pick your poison.

 

[Iron Warrior]

I see a good point you make Somewhat. It would be nice to have politicians focus on important issues more often. Why are they worried about steroids in pro sports when we have bigger issues with illegal immigration, education, and soaring housing costs (at least in my neck of the woods housing is a huge issue that hasn't been resolved)

The problme is that those tough choices can backfire on some politicians and cost them their career. They're supposed to serve the people's best interest but this is not always the case.

 

[anabolicrhino]

I find his comments extreme, i am not anti american or anti freedon but i also think geroge bush is a nitwit and u.s will be better when anyone replaces him. I dont get all the freedom talk. When hes taken away everyday rights like tooth paste on a plane breast milk, internet search querys, torture, phone tapping. I mean i understand what he says hes doing but does everybody just keep buying into his crap, atleast hugo has the balls to say whats on his mind, justified or not.

It always takes balls to challenge the status quo! I could not agree with you more, every leader needs to be challenged by every rational member of society. It is the only way to ensure civil rights. When you blindly follow what is dictated, you assume no rights!!!
If the USA was truely concerned with terrorism in the US we would close our boarders, which are basically wide open. The immigrants are allowed to flow in because eventually they will have jobs that can be taxed, which pays for the system. Housing prices are a direct reflection of inflation. You may pay more for a house today than 10 years ago, but the value of your money is less. Inflation rate is about 3-5% per year, when you sell your home you generally add 5% to the price you paid per year,coincidence maybe?

 

[GREENFEATHER]

I could deal with him, I even have my own rifles. I just need a ride to and from. I'm just sayin........

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Not to revive a dead thread but it looks like Chavez is officially a democratically "elected" dictator.

He has been given the power to rule by decree for 18 months (yeah, i'm sure he will just give up that power at the end of 18 months).

Details:

On the economic and social scope:

---To dictate norms that preserve the social function of property, in their diverse forms and classes, developing the concept of social and collective property, according its limitations and restrictions within the framework of the constitutional values and principles and applying (sic) the new emerging realities on matters economic functions, organizational structures for production and new mechanisms for barter.

---To dictate norms on the matter of expropriations that simplify administrative and jurisdictional procedures, guaranteeing speed, transparency, effectiveness and efficiency in the subtraction of property, as well as the protection of the rights of those being expropriated as well as the general interest.

---To dictate norms of regulatory character on the matter of foreign investment, directed to the industrial and endogenous development, and to the transformation national technology regulating the resolution of controversies with respect to the sovereignty and to the impossibility of declining national jurisdiction. ·

---To dictate norms that regulate on matters related to strategic minerals, establishing parameters for their exploration, extraction, use and commercialization.

In the financial and taxation areas:

---To dictate norms that make possible the creation of binational or multinational funds for the development of programs of joint financing between the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela with two or more States.

---To dictate norms that allow the Fund for National Development (Fonden) to grant guarantees, to issue securities titles and conducting financial operations that imply indebtedness with the prior authorization of the President of the Republic.

---To Dictate norms in the area of the public finances, oriented to the construction of the new socioeconomic regime consecrated in the Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, orienting the execution of excess income originating from the Law of Economic and Special Allocations derived from Mines and Hydrocarbons as well as the Law of the Intergovernmental Fund for decentralization, among other sources of financing for popular participation, with the intention of strengthening it and the equitable distribution of the resources to the communities, for the execution of its programs of endogenous development.

---To dictate norms that regulate the management system of national assets, as part of the financial management system of the State.

---To dictate norms that regulate the activities of financial intermediation developed by banks, directed to rationalize their profits benefits, orienting it as a productive and non-speculative system. Also, to promote the investment for the endogenous development of the country, democratizing credit and the free access financing, generating conditions of equality for its request, processing and granting. Also, to establish conditions that allow and stimulate the participation of new forms of association for the development of banking and insurance activities.

---To Dictate norms that establish a system of regulation, control and supervision of the tangible assets of the Fund for Guarantees and Deposits (Fogade), where these can be identified in all their extension, establishing transparent mechanisms for their sale and guaranteeing their keep, custody, maintenance, protecting the general interest of the depositors of the national banking system.

---To dictate norms that allow to re-dimensioning of the figure of the Central Bank of Venezuela, with the aim of fitting it within the socioeconomic regime consecrated in the Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.

---To dictate norms that help the diversification, optimization and harmonization of the Venezuelan tax system, with the object of increasing the effectiveness of tax collection, to stop the existence of unproductive assets, to modernize tax control and to improve the activities of the Tax Administration.

---To dictate norms that establish a fiscal policy of general and special contributions, proportional to the income of people and legal entities and in accordance with budgetary necessities.

In the area territorial distribution:

---To dictate norms that define the geographic spaces that define (sic) the National Bolivarian Project for Development.

---To Dictate norms that allow to regulate the processes of promotion and creation of establishments of communities in the national territory, in accordance with the outlines established in the territorial planning of the country which stimulates the integral human development based on values and social forms, oriented to allow the formation of a new citizen and to construct a new society, in the terms established in the constitutional text.

In the area of security and defense:

---To dictate norms for the organization and operation of the National System of Intelligence and Counter Intelligence.

---To dictate norms for the implementation of operational zones of the integral defense of the nation.

---To dictate norms that allow the mobilization of the National Armed Forces in the assumptions that are specifically anticipated, without the need to declare a state of emergency.

In the area of popular participation and the social voluntary military service:

---To Dictate norms to establish the mechanisms of participation, social control and socio technical inspection of organized communities in the application of the legal, economic and social ordering of the State, providing with the legal instruments for the permanent means for the population to participate, evaluates and control public management in all their manifestations and the accomplishment of the essential and nonessential assignments, executed or not by public or private entities.

---To dictate norms directed to the democratization of Popular Power, creating an organizational structure that allows the legitimate exercise of this Power, whose representation must have a direct and immediate identity with the community that it represents. In such sense, these norms must grant attributions to the Communal Councils, in the matter of planning, administration, management and control of the resources and in the execution of the inherent projects to endogenous development.


All it would take for Venezuela to crumble right now would be low oil prices for six months combined with a Cubaesque flight of people and capital.

It is almost as if the guy is willfully trying to destroy the country and economy so he can rebuild it in some delusional marxist "utopia".

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Not to revive a dead thread but it looks like Chavez is officially a democratically "elected" dictator.

He has been given the power to rule by decree for 18 months (yeah, i'm sure he will just give up that power at the end of 18 months).

Details:

On the economic and social scope:

---To dictate norms that preserve the social function of property, in their diverse forms and classes, developing the concept of social and collective property, according its limitations and restrictions within the framework of the constitutional values and principles and applying (sic) the new emerging realities on matters economic functions, organizational structures for production and new mechanisms for barter.

---To dictate norms on the matter of expropriations that simplify administrative and jurisdictional procedures, guaranteeing speed, transparency, effectiveness and efficiency in the subtraction of property, as well as the protection of the rights of those being expropriated as well as the general interest.

---To dictate norms of regulatory character on the matter of foreign investment, directed to the industrial and endogenous development, and to the transformation national technology regulating the resolution of controversies with respect to the sovereignty and to the impossibility of declining national jurisdiction. ·

---To dictate norms that regulate on matters related to strategic minerals, establishing parameters for their exploration, extraction, use and commercialization.

In the financial and taxation areas:

---To dictate norms that make possible the creation of binational or multinational funds for the development of programs of joint financing between the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela with two or more States.

---To dictate norms that allow the Fund for National Development (Fonden) to grant guarantees, to issue securities titles and conducting financial operations that imply indebtedness with the prior authorization of the President of the Republic.

---To Dictate norms in the area of the public finances, oriented to the construction of the new socioeconomic regime consecrated in the Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, orienting the execution of excess income originating from the Law of Economic and Special Allocations derived from Mines and Hydrocarbons as well as the Law of the Intergovernmental Fund for decentralization, among other sources of financing for popular participation, with the intention of strengthening it and the equitable distribution of the resources to the communities, for the execution of its programs of endogenous development.

---To dictate norms that regulate the management system of national assets, as part of the financial management system of the State.

---To dictate norms that regulate the activities of financial intermediation developed by banks, directed to rationalize their profits benefits, orienting it as a productive and non-speculative system. Also, to promote the investment for the endogenous development of the country, democratizing credit and the free access financing, generating conditions of equality for its request, processing and granting. Also, to establish conditions that allow and stimulate the participation of new forms of association for the development of banking and insurance activities.

---To Dictate norms that establish a system of regulation, control and supervision of the tangible assets of the Fund for Guarantees and Deposits (Fogade), where these can be identified in all their extension, establishing transparent mechanisms for their sale and guaranteeing their keep, custody, maintenance, protecting the general interest of the depositors of the national banking system.

---To dictate norms that allow to re-dimensioning of the figure of the Central Bank of Venezuela, with the aim of fitting it within the socioeconomic regime consecrated in the Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.

---To dictate norms that help the diversification, optimization and harmonization of the Venezuelan tax system, with the object of increasing the effectiveness of tax collection, to stop the existence of unproductive assets, to modernize tax control and to improve the activities of the Tax Administration.

---To dictate norms that establish a fiscal policy of general and special contributions, proportional to the income of people and legal entities and in accordance with budgetary necessities.

In the area territorial distribution:

---To dictate norms that define the geographic spaces that define (sic) the National Bolivarian Project for Development.

---To Dictate norms that allow to regulate the processes of promotion and creation of establishments of communities in the national territory, in accordance with the outlines established in the territorial planning of the country which stimulates the integral human development based on values and social forms, oriented to allow the formation of a new citizen and to construct a new society, in the terms established in the constitutional text.

In the area of security and defense:

---To dictate norms for the organization and operation of the National System of Intelligence and Counter Intelligence.

---To dictate norms for the implementation of operational zones of the integral defense of the nation.

---To dictate norms that allow the mobilization of the National Armed Forces in the assumptions that are specifically anticipated, without the need to declare a state of emergency.

In the area of popular participation and the social voluntary military service:

---To Dictate norms to establish the mechanisms of participation, social control and socio technical inspection of organized communities in the application of the legal, economic and social ordering of the State, providing with the legal instruments for the permanent means for the population to participate, evaluates and control public management in all their manifestations and the accomplishment of the essential and nonessential assignments, executed or not by public or private entities.

---To dictate norms directed to the democratization of Popular Power, creating an organizational structure that allows the legitimate exercise of this Power, whose representation must have a direct and immediate identity with the community that it represents. In such sense, these norms must grant attributions to the Communal Councils, in the matter of planning, administration, management and control of the resources and in the execution of the inherent projects to endogenous development.


All it would take for Venezuela to crumble right now would be low oil prices for six months combined with a Cubaesque flight of people and capital.

It is almost as if the guy is willfully trying to destroy the country and economy so he can rebuild it in some delusional marxist "utopia".

 

[PastorofMuppets]

wow, don't know what happened there with all the duplicate posts.

 

[jmh80]

All it would take for Venezuela to crumble right now would be low oil prices for six months combined with a Cubaesque flight of people and capital.

Low oil prices would be enough. They are pumping way less oil than pre-2000 - but not if you listen to Chavez.
I'm not honestly sure where the crude market is headed at this point. OPEC expanding to include Angola (I think?) and possibly Sudan wouldn't help the prospects of a lower crude price for that amount of time.
But - OPEC has shown little ability to work together (truely) to prop up crude prices until they hit rock bottom.

 

[anabolicrhino]

Low oil prices would be enough. They are pumping way less oil than pre-2000 - but not if you listen to Chavez.
I'm not honestly sure where the crude market is headed at this point. OPEC expanding to include Angola (I think?) and possibly Sudan wouldn't help the prospects of a lower crude price for that amount of time.
But - OPEC has shown little ability to work together (truely) to prop up crude prices until they hit rock bottom.

I believe IRAN was just lucky enough to have discovered another 2 billion barrels of oil

Iran discovers new onshore oil field | Jerusalem Post

 

[size]

A true Chavez quote from an interview this week:
"Go to hell, gringos! Go home!"
Link to story

 

[somewhatgifted]

A true Chavez quote from an interview this week:
"Go to hell, gringos! Go home!"
Link to story

A little tought to like a guy whos telling you to go to hell. I think he has some good ideas from what i read.

 

[Iron Warrior]

Awesome link size. I noticed he doesn't really like it when people buy fancy cars or yachts but rich people put money into the economy and this creates more jobs. My pops says socialism is like the digestive system because it turns everything it gets into crap LOL.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

A little tought to like a guy whos telling you to go to hell. I think he has some good ideas from what i read.

If you call almost purposefully destroying any semblance of a economy and private enterprise a "good idea" then yes, it is a good idea.

If you call "ruling by decree" a good idea, then yes, it is a good idea.

If you call shutting down private television (RCTV) and nationalizing telecommunications a good idea, then yes, is is a good idea.

Quintupled (last I checked) inflation? Good idea?


The list goes on and on. He is quickly driving the private sector into the toilet in order to have the excuse to go straight to communism, and the venezuelan people will suffer for it. His cronies and sycophants will bask in corruption and the billions that they have already plundered while talking about "helping the poor through distributing the oil wealth" BULL****!!!

Will Hugo Chavez differentiate between the people who EARNED their wealth like my family? My uncle who worked his way up FROM NOTHING, no running water, no electricity to get an education and bust his ass to make it? No, I highly doubt it.

Sadly people will still make excuses for Hugo all the time simply because he picks at Bush and has so called noble "intentions".

My fear is that he will drive Venezuela into the ground and he will take many innocent people with him, just like other marxists who have come before him.

For chrissakes the guy admires Mugabe, and people still fall for his ****.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

If you call almost purposefully destroying any semblance of a economy and private enterprise a "good idea" then yes, it is a good idea.

If you call "ruling by decree" a good idea, then yes, it is a good idea.

If you call shutting down private television (RCTV) and nationalizing telecommunications a good idea, then yes, is is a good idea.

Quintupled (last I checked) inflation? Good idea?


The list goes on and on. He is quickly driving the private sector into the toilet in order to have the excuse to go straight to communism, and the venezuelan people will suffer for it. His cronies and sycophants will bask in corruption and the billions that they have already plundered while talking about "helping the poor through distributing the oil wealth" BULL****!!!

Will Hugo Chavez differentiate between the people who EARNED their wealth like my family? My uncle who worked his way up FROM NOTHING, no running water, no electricity to get an education and bust his ass to make it? No, I highly doubt it.

Sadly people will still make excuses for Hugo all the time simply because he picks at Bush and has so called noble "intentions".

My fear is that he will drive Venezuela into the ground and he will take many innocent people with him, just like other marxists who have come before him.

For chrissakes the guy admires Mugabe, and people still fall for his ****.

He already is driving it into the ground.

Its going to be the "banana republic syndrome" all over again.

 

[rockhard_4eva]

I disagree. Everyone is forgetting 1 thing about that small powerless 3rd world country -- resources!

The way I see it, my fellow paratrooper, Hugh "the dumbass" Chavez is simply kicking out foreign corporations to benefit himself, his friends, and last, his people. I think an average Venezualan (actually im sure) likes his policy -- thats why they voted for him.

Although I do disagree with what he is saying, it appears many countries are fed up with a US dominated world. Maybe one day soon, his country will become another state, like Canada!

All you have to do is look at US foreign policy, particularly in central and south america for the past 50 years, and its easy to understand why there is hatred and animosity towards the US.

BTW - I like Bush, I went to Yale so he is my alumni, but he is one dumb son-of-a-*****! Why did you guys vote for him?

 

[anabolicrhino]

I disagree. Everyone is forgetting 1 thing about that small powerless 3rd world country -- resources!

The way I see it, my fellow paratrooper, Hugh "the dumbass" Chavez is simply kicking out foreign corporations to benefit himself, his friends, and last, his people. I think an average Venezualan (actually im sure) likes his policy -- thats why they voted for him.

Although I do disagree with what he is saying, it appears many countries are fed up with a US dominated world. Maybe one day soon, his country will become another state, like Canada!

All you have to do is look at US foreign policy, particularly in central and south america for the past 50 years, and its easy to understand why there is hatred and animosity towards the US.

BTW - I like Bush, I went to Yale so he is my alumni, but he is one dumb son-of-a-*****! Why did you guys vote for him?

Agreed. The USA is just posturing a negative relationship with Chavez inorder to create an enemy of the state.
It starts with presenting a narrow focused editorialized review of what Chavez states in the press. He is first set up as anti-america, then anti capitalism, then finally an enemy to his own people(see saddaam Hussien for details)

Once he is represented as an enemy to his people, then the USA will set itself up as liberators. Then the liberation begins.

It may not be possible to ever exicute a full liberation army, just based on the avalaible USA troop levels, but there will be(are) covert operation(black ops) that spead political disruption.(see the coup of 2001)

...and it really does not cost anything to control the information flow through the corporate controlled media.

There are no rational reasons to fear Chavez. We are the worlds largest oil customer, that alone gives the USA all the power it needs in a true free market system.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

I disagree. Everyone is forgetting 1 thing about that small powerless 3rd world country -- resources!

The way I see it, my fellow paratrooper, Hugh "the dumbass" Chavez is simply kicking out foreign corporations to benefit himself, his friends, and last, his people. I think an average Venezualan (actually im sure) likes his policy -- thats why they voted for him.

We shall never know the truth of the elections anymore because Chavez controls the electoral boards and process. Case in point...guess who just took over as Vice Prez? Yup, the former Chavez appointed head of the CNE (National electoral board).

Although I do disagree with what he is saying, it appears many countries are fed up with a US dominated world. Maybe one day soon, his country will become another state, like Canada!

Do a modicum of research on the impending financial disaster and lost liberties that is a direct result of Chavez' policies please, no offense, but you sound horribly ignorant of the subject.

All you have to do is look at US foreign policy, particularly in central and south america for the past 50 years, and its easy to understand why there is hatred and animosity towards the US.

Ah the old "the US fought a proxy war against commies in SA and Latin America" schtick"

In what reality is that an excuse for becoming a communist state and crushing any semblance of democracy and free enterprise?

The irony of ironies is that for all of Chavez' railing about the "evil empire" he certainly does not mind getting the bulk of his money from the US in terms of oil sales.

Put your money where you mouth is Hugo and cut of oil sales to the US!

BTW - I like Bush, I went to Yale so he is my alumni, but he is one dumb son-of-a-*****! Why did you guys vote for him?

See this is the grand assumption by folks. And it is as such:

If you don't like Chavez then you must be a Bush nuthugger.

Sorry, but even if Bush did not exist, Chavez would still be a colossal douchebag marxist.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Agreed. The USA is just posturing a negative relationship with Chavez inorder to create an enemy of the state.
It starts with presenting a narrow focused editorialized review of what Chavez states in the press. He is first set up as anti-america, then anti capitalism, then finally an enemy to his own people(see saddaam Hussien for details)

Once he is represented as an enemy to his people, then the USA will set itself up as liberators. Then the liberation begins.

It may not be possible to ever exicute a full liberation army, just based on the avalaible USA troop levels, but there will be(are) covert operation(black ops) that spead political disruption.(see the coup of 2001)

...and it really does not cost anything to control the information flow through the corporate controlled media.

There are no rational reasons to fear Chavez. We are the worlds largest oil customer, that alone gives the USA all the power it needs in a true free market system.

1. Please provide proof of a US involvement in the 2002 (not 2001) coup. No, The Revolution will Not be Televised propaganda and Eva Golingers crap is NOT proof. No, not someone making a claim either. I really don't know why I am asking for this, noone has ever been able to provide it.

2. If you read Spanish you would know that if anyone has been demonizing and editorializing it would Chavez. There is nary a day that goes by where you don't hear about the "IMPERIALISTOSSS", or his cadenas where he takes over all of the television channels for his hour long propaganda readings. He finally stopped with the weekly claims of the impending US invasion since people started to call him the boy who cried wolf.

3. Chavez is not being "set up" as being anti-capitalism or anti-his own people", his actions and words blatantly show this. Read venezulean blogs and newspapers and you would see this.


I do agree however that Chavez is no threat to the US... as long as his alliance with Iran is strictly economic in nature. There are those rumored clandestine uranium mines being operated by Iranians/Cubans though......

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Agreed. The USA is just posturing a negative relationship with Chavez inorder to create an enemy of the state.
It starts with presenting a narrow focused editorialized review of what Chavez states in the press. He is first set up as anti-america, then anti capitalism, then finally an enemy to his own people(see saddaam Hussien for details)

Once he is represented as an enemy to his people, then the USA will set itself up as liberators. Then the liberation begins.

It may not be possible to ever exicute a full liberation army, just based on the avalaible USA troop levels, but there will be(are) covert operation(black ops) that spead political disruption.(see the coup of 2001)

...and it really does not cost anything to control the information flow through the corporate controlled media.

There are no rational reasons to fear Chavez. We are the worlds largest oil customer, that alone gives the USA all the power it needs in a true free market system.

:lol:

 

[jmh80]

I disagree. Everyone is forgetting 1 thing about that small powerless 3rd world country -- resources!

The way I see it, my fellow paratrooper, Hugh "the dumbass" Chavez is simply kicking out foreign corporations to benefit himself, his friends, and last, his people. I think an average Venezualan (actually im sure) likes his policy -- thats why they voted for him.

Although I do disagree with what he is saying, it appears many countries are fed up with a US dominated world. Maybe one day soon, his country will become another state, like Canada!

All you have to do is look at US foreign policy, particularly in central and south america for the past 50 years, and its easy to understand why there is hatred and animosity towards the US.

BTW - I like Bush, I went to Yale so he is my alumni, but he is one dumb son-of-a-*****! Why did you guys vote for him?

Hugo? (IP check Bobo???)



Anway - if anyone in Venezuala thinks Chavez is liberating the oil sector by nationalizing the oil installations - you are flat out assinine and need to be beaten about the head and shoulders until you understand the data from un-biased groups.

Since 2000, Venezuala pumps a half a million barrels less a day. That's what you get when you have business people trying to make engineering decisions. And not very experienced business people too.
Sometimes one can get in a bit over their heads when handed project(s) projects much bigger than building a 7-11.

EIA data show that total Venezuelan crude oil production in 2001 (the last full year before the Venezuelan strike) averaged about 3.1 million barrels per day, but by 2005 had fallen to about 2.6 million barrels per day — a 16 percent reduction.

I'm sure that's doing your economy some good, eh?

Venezuelan government officials dispute these figures, and provided data that indicates production has almost fully recovered to prestrike levels, but most available data indicate that the Venezuelan government data are overstated.

Can someone photo shop that quote from the Venezualans on Baghdad Bob???


Latin Business Chronicle

 

[anabolicrhino]

1. Please provide proof of a US involvement in the 2002 (not 2001) coup. No, The Revolution will Not be Televised propaganda and Eva Golingers crap is NOT proof. No, not someone making a claim either. I really don't know why I am asking for this, noone has ever been able to provide it.

1) I have no proof for you. Please provide proof that the US was not involved in the 2001(planning) or the training and implementation of operatives in the 2002 coup. There is some evidence that the USA might have been involved in other Central and South American disputes. please see(Nicaragua 1848-1986, Guatemala, Chile,Panama, San Salvador, Cuba 1953-1990)

2. If you read Spanish you would know that if anyone has been demonizing and editorializing it would Chavez. There is nary a day that goes by where you don't hear about the "IMPERIALISTOSSS", or his cadenas where he takes over all of the television channels for his hour long propaganda readings. He finally stopped with the weekly claims of the impending US invasion since people started to call him the boy who cried wolf.

2) Leo espanol muy bien, gracias. Ya no se, tu creado Chavez es mal hombre? si es verdad! pero no nececito para liberation de gringos. El tiene mas oro de nergo. Eso es todo que es importante, no!

3. Chavez is not being "set up" as being anti-capitalism or anti-his own people", his actions and words blatantly show this. Read venezulean blogs and newspapers and you would see this.

3) I am not defending Chavez, I am questioning the motives behind the posturing of the USA. Of course the people challenge the policies of Chavez, they have every right to challenge him, That is what people should do when they are not satisfied with leadership!!!

If you were to compare the percentage of the Venezuelan population that are satisfied with Chavez policies vs the percentage of the Israeli population that are satisfied with Olmet, you may begin to see a double standard in US foriegn policy. Not to mention a comparison of the percentage of the US population that supports the Bush "surge" policy.

I do agree however that Chavez is no threat to the US... as long as his alliance with Iran is strictly economic in nature. There are those rumored clandestine uranium mines being operated by Iranians/Cubans though......

So, you do not accept US 2002 coup rumors, but you do accept
Iranian/Cuban Uranium mine rumors? Aye Carumba!!!

 

[PastorofMuppets]

So, you do not accept US 2002 coup rumors, but you do accept
Iranian/Cuban Uranium mine rumors? Aye Carumba!!!

You are asking me to prove a negative when you were the one spouting the typical Chavista line of the US involvement in the 2002 coup?

Hilarious.

You keep referencing "posturing" by the US. I mean seriously, what "posturing" are you referring to, because I can probably count four to five times that the US has even bothered to respond to Chavez inane rambling, and I have completely lost count of the "posturing" that Chavez has done.

The US has gone out of its way NOT to respond to the daily "impending US invasion" garbage that keeps being spewed by Chavez. The US knows that any US response works in Chavez favor. Just take a look at how Chavez blew his lid when the US ambassador "dared" to suggest that Chavez follow his own constitution and compensate the owners of CANTV fairly and legally.

Of course Chavez has a back up plan, having already claimed that CANTV is "spying" on him and is going to use that as an excuse to nationalize CANTV regardless. And of course Chavez refuses to provide any proof of said spying.

Kind of like when VP Rangel made the claim that DirectTV was a tool of the imperialistos and was being used to spy on venezuelans.

As far as the uranium mine claim, at least my "rumor" is somewhat referenced by a head of state of Columbia that made the claim. Look it up, or do you find the Chavista claim of a Iranian "joint effort" to make "bicycles" in the jungle a bit of a stretch as well?

 

[anabolicrhino]

You are asking me to prove a negative when you were the one spouting the typical Chavista line of the US involvement in the 2002 coup?

Hilarious.

You keep referencing "posturing" by the US. I mean seriously, what "posturing" are you referring to...

Yes , atleast we can agree that any reference to Chavez as a threat to the USA is hilarious!

The fact that we are debating the affairs of one Hugo Chavez as opposed to another world leader is the "fabricated posturing" to which I refer, it is the classic misdirection play,...USA struggles in a foriegn occupation(Iraq),...then spins tales of Chavez as if he alone is the only world leader in opposition to US world domination policies!


Kind of like when VP Rangel made the claim that DirectTV was a tool of the imperialistos and was being used to spy on venezuelans.

Well, now that DirectTV is owned by Ruppert Murdoch(FOX)
I am sure we will see what a "tool" can do in the "right" hands

As far as the uranium mine claim, at least my "rumor" is somewhat referenced by a head of state of Columbia that made the claim. Look it up, or do you find the Chavista claim of a Iranian "joint effort" to make "bicycles" in the jungle a bit of a stretch as well?

Yes, third party hearsay makes the best rumors

 

[rockhard_4eva]

Hugo? (IP check Bobo???)



Anway - if anyone in Venezuala thinks Chavez is liberating the oil sector by nationalizing the oil installations - you are flat out assinine and need to be beaten about the head and shoulders until you understand the data from un-biased groups.

Since 2000, Venezuala pumps a half a million barrels less a day. That's what you get when you have business people trying to make engineering decisions. And not very experienced business people too.
Sometimes one can get in a bit over their heads when handed project(s) projects much bigger than building a 7-11.


I'm sure that's doing your economy some good, eh?

Can someone photo shop that quote from the Venezualans on Baghdad Bob???


Latin Business Chronicle

Oops, I dant spell chek! If you must know, I am currently living in Toronto, Canada -- and yes its true, Canada is a communist country.

I have lived in CT, Israel and London, so I have been exposed to every bias in media that can exist. I cannot comment on cutting oil supplies, but its hard to get real data on a cartel. Perhaps a few member are secretly cutting supplies in order to create a percieved market shortage. Its hard to say with all the Chinese foreign investment.

 

[rockhard_4eva]

We shall never know the truth of the elections anymore because Chavez controls the electoral boards and process. Case in point...guess who just took over as Vice Prez? Yup, the former Chavez appointed head of the CNE (National electoral board).

True, but look what happened in 2000 and 04 - you will also never know the truth. However, it shouldn't be a surpise that people voted for him, well, poor people.


Do a modicum of research on the impending financial disaster and lost liberties that is a direct result of Chavez' policies please, no offense, but you sound horribly ignorant of the subject.

From the outside looking in, I agree. Now compare Saudi to Venez and Saudi has about 1/100th the "liberties" of Venez. And they support Sunni terrorism. Where was the US when Saudi went from bad to worse in terms of "liberties"...oh yes, they were drilling for oil in the desert.


Ah the old "the US fought a proxy war against commies in SA and Latin America" schtick"

In what reality is that an excuse for becoming a communist state and crushing any semblance of democracy and free enterprise?

That isn't an excuse. But I sure aint gonna trust no American after reading about em stories of the past.

The irony of ironies is that for all of Chavez' railing about the "evil empire" he certainly does not mind getting the bulk of his money from the US in terms of oil sales.

Put your money where you mouth is Hugo and cut of oil sales to the US!

That's the beauty of it. The US is still buying and Chavez is still selling. He is completing his objective. He is making money/power, and insulting the US at the same time. Incredible!


See this is the grand assumption by folks. And it is as such:

If you don't like Chavez then you must be a Bush nuthugger.

Sorry, but even if Bush did not exist, Chavez would still be a colossal douchebag marxist.

Would you prefer to live as a peasant in tsarist russia or communist russia. I'd prefer communist Russia. That doesn't make me a communist, that just means I'm choosing the best choice out of a group of bad choices.

 

[rockhard_4eva]

There are no rational reasons to fear Chavez. We are the worlds largest oil customer, that alone gives the USA all the power it needs in a true free market system.

Well, we should fear his fleet of F-16's. Oh wait, nevermind, they have no spare parts!

 

[jmh80]

It seemed like you were from/lived in Venez. from your post. I didn't mean to attack you. Sorry.

I'm saying that they aren't making as much as the could. If they are purposely doing that - they are f*cking retarded. The lost opportunity when oil was $70+ a barrel is mind boogling.
I'm saying they don't know how to operate any sort of plant to it's potential or designed rate. Forget anything complex to coax extra oil out of the ground or out of a barrel.

It's easier than you'd think to track how much they are making - most of their output is destined for the US. (Their crude is fairly nasty comparatively speaking - there aren't many international refineries that currently can process a small number of their crudes.)

 

[anabolicrhino]

Would you prefer to live as a peasant in tsarist russia or communist russia. I'd prefer communist Russia. That doesn't make me a communist, that just means I'm choosing the best choice out of a group of bad choices.

How about life as a debt ridden clock puncher in a plutocracy
that mascarades as a beacon of freedom? Where civil liberties are removed in the name of freedom??...and people are "...killin' in the name of..."???

..but atleast we have the Super bowl!!!!

 

[anabolicrhino]

It seemed like you were from/lived in Venez. from your post. I didn't mean to attack you. Sorry.

I'm saying that they aren't making as much as the could. If they are purposely doing that - they are f*cking retarded. The lost opportunity when oil was $70+ a barrel is mind boogling.
I'm saying they don't know how to operate any sort of plant to it's potential or designed rate. Forget anything complex to coax extra oil out of the ground or out of a barrel.

It's easier than you'd think to track how much they are making - most of their output is destined for the US. (Their crude is fairly nasty comparatively speaking - there aren't many international refineries that currently can process a small number of their crudes.)

Them there Canadians got some kind of nasty "gooed-up oil" up there in them Thousand Lakes,...I says we liberate it!(hehehe)

 

[anabolicrhino]

1. Please provide proof of a US involvement in the 2002 (not 2001) coup.

Okay, while this is not direct evidence of complicity, the fact the the Bush government recognized a 12 hour old revolutionary government, as opposed to supporting a democratcally elected leader, could legally be refered to as "guilty demeamor"....at least it would explain why Chavez is so suspicious of the Bush goverment

...are you a Verizon stock holder?

Venezuela May Ask U.S. Envoy to Leave

 

[jmh80]

Them there Canadians got some kind of nasty "gooed-up oil" up there in them Thousand Lakes,...I says we liberate it!(hehehe)

There is a LOT of money being but in the Canadian tarsands. There are just some pretty pristine forests and stuff in that area - plus that goo ain't located near a metropolis.
You need educated engineers to run the plant and good operators to make it happen without blowing something up (see Mexico's PEMEX for an example of how not to operate/maintain your equipment).
So - the labor pool just can't support the needs of the industry. The compaines just end up getting each other's employees.

It also doesn't help that there isn't much infrastructure up there. You need steam/electricity/water to run those extraction plants and refineries.

In short - it will take a while for those to get up to a decent amount of refinery output (the stuff out of the ground is even more worthless than regular crude oil).

 

[Dwight Schrute]

How about life as a debt ridden clock puncher in a plutocracy
that mascarades as a beacon of freedom? Where civil liberties are removed in the name of freedom??...and people are "...killin' in the name of..."???

..but atleast we have the Super bowl!!!!

Seems you made the choice. You are still here.

 

[anabolicrhino]

Seems you made the choice. You are still here.

Actually, my grandparents deserve the credit for the choice, sometime circa 1920. I was about 22 before I realized I had the choice to live where I wanted. That was 1988 and the USA was still a believable dream to me. Only became reaquainted to the whole plutocracy thing in the last few years, that credit would go to the internet and free thinking forums like this one ...THANKS!!!!

...the United States is still the best country, but it needs improvement. This is a phase that could be found on the Republican National Committe websit during the Clinton administration:

" Love my country, hate my goverment "

 

[Iron Warrior]

Since I started this thread I just gotta add that I love this country. It might not be perfect and may never be but I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I know we need major improvements in illegal immigration, education, and more tax breaks would be really nice too but at the end of the day I'm satisfied because I have a good future ahead of me and I'm pleased with my life at this point. This country is so great that people from all over the world want to be here because they have no future in their country and at the end of the day we all need to see that light at the end of the tunnel to keep up us motivated and hungry.