Dear christ, I wish I didn't own a Truck

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    Dear christ, I wish I didn't own a Truck


    Yeah so with gas at all time highs this is outta control, It is probably worse then the Katrina thing b/c i mean we had some control over that. Now it appears gas will be at 3.00 or greater for the majority of summer, if not more than that. I'm assuming the public outcry for this is gonna be quite severe enough that either the strategic reserve is gonna have a pretty big dent in it, or the gas tax might be "taken off". That does not mean anything b/c we will all be paying higher taxes then next year. Personally I'm moving over to a diesel truck and making Bio-Diesel. I took a course in Petroleum engineering and a few of my buddies are going down that route. Its cheap as hell to, right about .99 a gallon for a few months and then the price drops about 10 cents less, once you have covered your inital investment. Hardest part is getting the oil from places. So far I'm pretty sure were the only ones doing this int he area, so where going stock pile oil and then just refine it all at the same time, and pick one of our houses as our "gas station" . In further economic light, should gas price be about 3.00 a gallon there will probably be somewhat of a recession in the economy. The middle class will fade away and there will be a clear separation of who has money and who doesn't. Not overall a good thing, and hybrids are a joke, for most of them still sell at 3-10G's over sticker price. At that rate, you might as well buy a ****ty used car and you will still break even with the hy-brid, in the long run.

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    2008 prediction is 8 bucks a gallon.
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    Yeah well i know Pa just got the first licence for Bio-diesle and its goann be cheaper than current diesel but your looking at problay 1-2 years before that thing is built and operational. All of the Chem E's at my school that are profferser are getting sucked into this project.
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    ethanol is in the works as well. it's funny the only argument that is keeping ethanol from being mass produced is bigoil companies saying that because subsidies are being paid to the farmers to grow less food, that they can't grow more corn. pretty f'ing stupid argument IMO. greed is the only factor that's keeping oil in the loop right now, nothing more. biodiesel is a great alternative as well, like you mentioned. soy beans, correct?
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    traded my truck in 2 years ago when gas started to climb..i saw this coming and offed the truck as soon as I could and got a 2004 civic... Even with that gas saver I hate paying for gas... If I had to buy a car now, it'd be (if availible) ethanol or biodiesel...and if not availible, I'd try and get a deal on a hybrid...
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    The very day I bought my Solara,V6, gas went up. I went from a small Mazda 4 to a hungry 6 that needed at least $30 for for a fill. Now I spend $70 bucks for a fill up and drive like it's a moped!!!!
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    problem with ethonal is many times the energy put into refining it is more than the ethonal gives off. Some plants burn part of the corn for the energy to refine it instead of using oil or coal, the thought is the gases given off were in the atmosphere originally when the corn took it in for food.
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    hadn't heard that problem. that was the issue with hydrogen though. no energy is gained because it takes the same amount to make it usable. my bet is that's where the way ahead future will be though, hydrogen.
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    make all cars run off of SHINE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub
    2008 prediction is 8 bucks a gallon.
    At least by then we will all be earning 250,00+ a year to compensate for the increase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redraiderdave
    At least by then we will all be earning 250,00+ a year to compensate for the increase.
    screw that www.nike.com hahaha
    ill be a walking mo fo
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    Feel fortunate you live in the US and gas is ONLY $3 a gallon. Sure, we've built our lives around gas, but the risks have been there for quite some time that prices will be skyrocketting.

    Get a more economical car, carpool to work, and don't count on driving 50 miles to work everyday.

    And, guess what, it won't matter if it's $3 a gallon either, we'll still pay it. Very few of us will be put in any economical pinch because we've make "gas money" such a priority in our lives and we'll figure out how to adjust. It's about time we start using/building better public transportation and start looking at how some of the rest of countries deal with their $5, $6, $8 a gallon prices...

    Also, remember that the US imports most of it's oil from Canada and Mexico, not the Middle East...
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_big_enuf
    Feel fortunate you live in the US and gas is ONLY $3 a gallon. Sure, we've built our lives around gas, but the risks have been there for quite some time that prices will be skyrocketting.

    Get a more economical car, carpool to work, and don't count on driving 50 miles to work everyday.

    And, guess what, it won't matter if it's $3 a gallon either, we'll still pay it. Very few of us will be put in any economical pinch because we've make "gas money" such a priority in our lives and we'll figure out how to adjust. It's about time we start using/building better public transportation and start looking at how some of the rest of countries deal with their $5, $6, $8 a gallon prices...

    Also, remember that the US imports most of it's oil from Canada and Mexico, not the Middle East...


    Well we get 50% of our oil from the western hemisphere, but it mostly comes from SA.
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    I get 32mpg but someday I will own this....

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    All because of Congress....
    Last edited by jmh80; 05-28-2006 at 02:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    As a chemical engineer, I hate hearing people blame Big Oil (whatever the f*ck that means) on gas prices.

    Did it ever occur to anyone that the government themselves (Congress) actually CAUSED this gas price spike???


    The Energy Bill of 2k6 took out an oxygenate requirement and did not give liability protection for MTBE makers - effectively bringing to a screetching halt the addition of one of the best octane boosting molecules to the mogas pool (this was signed in late Sept. '05 and put into law on May 1st).

    Mind you - after KatRita, you can't get a piece of stainless steel pipe made and delievered in less than 4 months - and the price has skyrocketed (lots of construction needs in the wake of the 'canes).
    Congress gave in to the Farmer special interest groups (which I'm fine with) and required a certain amount of ethanol to be used in 2006 (which I'm not fine with).
    I'm not fine with that because after phasing MTBE out, you've taken out something that "burns clean" and effectively replaced with EtOH - but now you've required a HUGE amount more of EtOH to be made.
    Those EtOH plants aren't online. You can grow all the sugar and corn you want - but it won't turn into ethanol on it's own.
    So, you have a supply crunch of EtOH in places not in the midwest.
    Less supply and same (or more as we head into the driving season) demand = higher prices.

    You can't blend EtOH into the mogas pool in a refinery. EtOH has an affinity for water (because it's polar) whereas MTBE doesn't. So, this will cause an increase in water in your gas by a very sizeable amount - which is bad for your car. (You can leak water into a tank in a refinery and it will partition to a separate phase which can be drawn off at the bottom of the tank via a water boot. But, with EtOH, no separate phase will form. You'd have to reprocess - adding more cost.)
    So, you've got to blend EtOH at the terminal. Now, you've got to test the mogas to release at the terminal (which isn't typically done today - it's done at the refinery).

    Another aspect is that MTBE makes up a good amount of a typical mogas pool at a refinery because it's a big molecule.
    Now, you've decreased the mogas make at each refinery. Valero reported an instant 5% decrease.
    That won't be made up with a similar molar amount of ethanol (it's smaller by mole weight).
    Again, supply and demand.

    Not to mention that you've got to do something with the chemical that makes up MTBE. It can't be blended to mogas in the summer due to the EPA's vapor pressure specs.
    Again, I can't get pipe done in under 4 months. Now, I've got to build reactors and other crap to get rid of this light molecule. Or, I've got to cut the refinery back to deal with a "glut" of it.


    All because of Congress....


    Those Trifflin Ho's


    yeah well uh i'm not speaking for everyone but I have hardly any idea of what mogas and the terminal,water boot, MTBE or any of that other jargon you used. Can i get an further explination on some of that stuff?
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    Mogas = industry term for motor gasoline (as opposed to avgas, etc)

    Terminal - where a mogas pipeline "comes up from the ground" if you will and trucks are loaded to go to the stations we fill up at.

    Water boot - essentially a big piece of pipe at the very bottom that allows for water to move down to (due to density differences) - then is drawn off via a level control valve.

    Level control valve - remote operated valve that opens when the water level gets high and closes off when it gets low. Operated by a computer these days.

    I'm headed to bed. Anything else I'll answer tomorrow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    Mogas = industry term for motor gasoline (as opposed to avgas, etc)

    Terminal - where a mogas pipeline "comes up from the ground" if you will and trucks are loaded to go to the stations we fill up at.

    Water boot - essentially a big piece of pipe at the very bottom that allows for water to move down to (due to density differences) - then is drawn off via a level control valve.

    Level control valve - remote operated valve that opens when the water level gets high and closes off when it gets low. Operated by a computer these days.

    I'm headed to bed. Anything else I'll answer tomorrow.

    Excellent thanks meng...


    Burba... its an industry term
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    As a chemical engineer, I hate hearing people blame Big Oil (whatever the f*ck that means) on gas prices.

    Did it ever occur to anyone that the government themselves (Congress) actually CAUSED this gas price spike???
    congress and bigoil share a common interest - money. and i'm pretty sure you can figure out what 'bigoil' means. don't be naive.
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    Oh yes!!!!!!! today i was walking to campus and saw that gas is now liek 3.02 in downtown pittsburgh... and i also just found out that there is a place that has B100 Bio-Diesel fuel for sale roughly 1 mile away from my current location. I'm gonan give them a call and see what the price is and such. Apparently if you have a B20 mix... 80petro Diesel and 20% bio-diesel, you can save anywhere from 30-50 cents a gallon, off the cost of regualr unleaded 87 octane gas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub
    congress and bigoil share a common interest - money. and i'm pretty sure you can figure out what 'bigoil' means. don't be naive.
    How come no one is going after Big Computers? After all, computers are just as integral to our modern society. They are essentially necessary for things to run, crucial to our economy at this point. But for some magical reason Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and the rest of the CEOs in the Big Computer and Big Software industry, who I assume are just as greedy and corrupt as the oil CEOs, haven't decided to kill us all by raising prices to astronomical levels.

    Perhaps as a chemical engineer with some experience he knows there's nothing sinister going on, and perhaps gets a little pissed at everyone blaming he and his company and their ilk. Are they to work for free? Who decides the 'reasonable' or 'fair' price of oil and gas? Why do the trillion or so impediments the government put in place to stop a genuine pricing system from working for some reason get a pass, but the salary of the oil CEOs is somehow paramount? And why does everyone seem to overlook the fact that in industries just as crucial to our economy that have a lot less government intervention, somehow no matter how greedy the CEOs are they seem to keep lowering prices and making their goods and services more affordable no matter how Big they are? I find it interesting because it's the classic example of the government justifying its own existence by solving a problem it had a major hand in creating to begin with, and will likely make worse not better with any further intervention.

    Personally I just can't stand the 'Big' because it's a nonsensical rhetorical tool. Big Oil, Big Tobacco, Big frigging Carrot. The purpose is to imply some sinister alterior nonhuman characteristic to Big this or that. It's a bit ridiculous, especially since Big whatever it is probably got so Big because the government crushed their competitors and enforce a semi cartel on their behalf with endless regulations and restrictions on the industry. It's rhetorical nonsense and makes no more sense than if the government or media were to try and demonize Big Steroid Users. Boogaa boogaa!

    I'm sure he knew what you meant by Big Oil. However, calling him naive for asking what it is, well it's kind of like the pot calling the kettler black, because those who use the term Big this or that without first stopping to think about what in fact it does mean, who keeps saying it, why they keep saying it, and what hand they may have had in creating this situation is equally naive.
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    the topic is being lost here. i'm not being sucked in to this further avoiding the subject. CDB, what do you attribute rising costs to? or anyone for that matter?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub
    the topic is being lost here. i'm not being sucked in to this further avoiding the subject. CDB, what do you attribute rising costs to? or anyone for that matter?
    A generally restricted market. A good that should be fungible turned into a very differentiated product by government regulation, making it harder to meet regional demands and deal with supply shortages. An infrastructure that's taken a couple good hits this past year. A restricted refining situation due to NIMBY types in the government. A virtual cartel here and abroad thanks to government enforcement. Uncertainty in the market concerning the middle east; despite where we get our oil, the global market in oil affects our system. Increasing demand from China, India and other developing nations and all the minute details of the industry that have to be dealt with in those nations. In short about a billion different things that have nothing to do with Big Oil CEO's salaries.

    All anyone ever does in the market is charge the highest price they can for the good or service they sell. It's not a crime, and quite simply if you don't want to buy it, don't. Or do as I and others have, get an efficient car. If you have one already and are still strapped, don't drive that much. If you want alternative fuels you should pray the price of gas skyrockets, as that's truly the only thing that will make R&D into alternatives economicalls viable. If you're worried about the economy I wouldn't be, because whatever slow down a rise in gas prices causes will be less destructive than the government artifically holding down those prices and allowing the economy to burn on using gas at its current rate only to hit shortages because the price wasn't allowed to rise to curb use.

    I personally don't see the problem. A price is information, nothing more. Gas is somewhat in demand right now so it costs more. That's life.
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    eh.... i paid 3.06 a gallon yesterday...... costed me 50 something dollars to fill up my accord.....how sad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Gimpy!
    eh.... i paid 3.06 a gallon yesterday...... costed me 50 something dollars to fill up my accord.....how sad.
    ehh thought them there things burned rice
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandozzz
    ehh thought them there things burned rice
    no those would be civics! no offense to civic owners (kwycke has one ).

    i love my car....leather....sunroof....s adan.......v6...... awesome first car
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Gimpy!
    no those would be civics! no offense to civic owners (kwycke has one ).

    i love my car....leather....sunroof....s adan.......v6...... awesome first car
    i had a nice accord once
    id still have it
    but some ass head slammed into the back of it and totaled it
  28. CDB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Gimpy!
    no those would be civics! no offense to civic owners (kwycke has one ).

    i love my car....leather....sunroof....s adan.......v6...... awesome first car
    I love my Civic. If it ran on rice i'd love it even more. The Accord is a nice car though. Comfortable. I was thinking of getting one last time but ended up with the Civic. Oddly enough my legs fit better in the Civic. In the Accord my knees were well into the dashboard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    I love my Civic. If it ran on rice i'd love it even more. The Accord is a nice car though. Comfortable. I was thinking of getting one last time but ended up with the Civic. Oddly enough my legs fit better in the Civic. In the Accord my knees were well into the dashboard.
    thing is they tried to say the kid that hit me wasnt driving that his mom was
    well i fixed that
    but that REALLY BUGGED THE **** OUT OF ME
  30. CDB
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandozzz
    thing is they tried to say the kid that hit me wasnt driving that his mom was
    well i fixed that
    but that REALLY BUGGED THE **** OUT OF ME
    That'd probably get me going too. I mean **** happens, you hit me as long as it was an accident and everyone's okay, I'm fine with it. The car can be replaced. If someone tried to pull **** like that though, I might get massively pissed. An accident is an accident, lying about it is just plain low.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    That'd probably get me going too. I mean **** happens, you hit me as long as it was an accident and everyone's okay, I'm fine with it. The car can be replaced. If someone tried to pull **** like that though, I might get massively pissed. An accident is an accident, lying about it is just plain low.
    they where trying to say it was his mama cause he ad alot of prior wrecks
    durringthe last phase of the interview they asked if i was law enforcement or a paralegal i said " uh no just a pissed off marine" hahahahaha
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    Having a Turbo charged car, I'm doing my best not to get into anything about the 4k range as my 4-cylinder can really start to eat up gas once that turbine starts to spin. It is pretty ridiculous, and of course by Summer they know that since people will start to travel more they will have to buy more gas = increased gas prices.

    It's pretty ridiculous how unregulated this market is, but of course they are creating their own demise as we speak. People won't put up with this ****, but unfortunately implementation of other alternatives is a long process.
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    i need a car running on nuclear power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rage (SoCal)
    It's pretty ridiculous how unregulated this market is, but of course they are creating their own demise as we speak. People won't put up with this ****, but unfortunately implementation of other alternatives is a long process.
    The oil and gas industry is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the United States and the in world in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub
    the topic is being lost here. i'm not being sucked in to this further avoiding the subject. CDB, what do you attribute rising costs to? or anyone for that matter?

    1. The instability of the middle east is making the players in the financial markets wary.
    2. EPA regulations that force the refineries to make many different blends of gasoline.
    3. Public demand for 3 grades of gasoline. Only 1 grade is really needed, two at the most.

    I think the price of gas would be significantly lower if the refineries were only required to make 1 EPA mandated blend, AND only made 2 grades of gas... regular and premium.
  36. CDB
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwolfWV
    I think the price of gas would be significantly lower if the refineries were only required to make 1 EPA mandated blend, AND only made 2 grades of gas... regular and premium.
    That would go a long way to easing regional shortages. That way if an area is running low supply can get reallocated by the pricing system. As it is now even when prices go up it's hit or miss as to whether or not that will stimulate the delivery of supply to the area that has higher demand because the availability is dependent on so many other factors. But like you imply, as it is now if California has a low supply and the price goes up there can be no reallocation of supply because the gas in Nevada can't necessarily be sold in CA.

    Sad to say but this is one area where, if we're going to have a standard, it should be regulated at the federal level with no state involvement. That way all states use the same gas grade(s) and supply is much more flexible.
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    no **** dude, ive got a 94 V8 GMC Sierra GT Short box step side, it fricken blows on gas, i wanna sell her, but i love her soo much
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    Bah...
    Last edited by jmh80; 05-28-2006 at 02:19 AM.
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    Yeah soo lol How about i was screwin around and google'd Stargetic Petro Reserve and an atriel from 2004 came up pretyt much stating that gas was reaching an unbearable 40 dolalrs a barrel... i almost shat myself.
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    Honestly this doesn't directly affect me much at all... but I have some input.

    I know a lot of europeans have have dealt with high gas prices for a very long time. Why does this suddenly kill americans? We are still paying less then european contries. Do we as a country financially strap ourselves so tight that and extra $50 per month kills us?
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