F**cking Gas Prices

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  1. And BV the oil industry in this country is not controlled by the government. We are all publically listed companies. The only thing the government controlls is the taxes and also the land that can be drilled for oil.
    So, I'm not really sure what you mean.
    Some politicians have a lot of money vested in the oil industry - so I think there isnt as big of a push to find a 'real' alternative energy source as there should be. I dont know though - maybe it doesnt work that way...I tend to be really cynical of anything that has to do with the government - even before I have all the facts.


  2. Maybe these prices will finally get all these HUGE suv's off the road.

    As for me, my protege gets 35 mpg
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    Gouging is a myth and a hypocrisy.
    So true. However, you understand economics, Mises, oiligopoly, monpolyfree markets, etc., while most do not. Oil pricing is rather simple.

    Off topic, but have you ever read Keynes's "General Theory"? I vastly disagree with Keynes but a read worth reading.

  4. Maybe these prices will finally get all these HUGE suv's off the road.

    As for me, my protege gets 35 mpg
    That's what Im saying - I sold my Explorer and got a Honda Accord.

  5. My camry gets 30 but the wife's van only gets about 22 or so
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  6. And Jap cars have locked gas doors

    The main reason for gas prices rising is the weakening of the dollar. My colleague was yapping about it 2-3 yrs ago about how prices were going to hit 80 (a barrel) and the dollar was in trouble.
    Last edited by MarcusG; 08-21-2005 at 02:01 PM.

  7. im definitely going to feel the hurt now that im out of nyc. didnt have to worry about gas prices while living in the city. just dropped 60 bones to fill up my first tank of gas in 6 years. its quite ass but the rate should plateau out wouldnt you say?
    Sage

  8. Quote Originally Posted by sage
    im definitely going to feel the hurt now that im out of nyc. didnt have to worry about gas prices while living in the city. just dropped 60 bones to fill up my first tank of gas in 6 years. its quite ass but the rate should plateau out wouldnt you say?
    Sage
    jmh80 said it will hit 3.50 by april.....

  9. Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    jmh80 said it will hit 3.50 by april.....
    unleaded? ahhh!!!!
    Sage

  10. ...
    Last edited by jmh80; 05-28-2006 at 03:33 AM.

  11. 2.75 by next year? I'm already at 2.79, dude....lol....and that's for regular unleaded.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    I *dont* vote for these people!! A lot of times you look at who you have to vote for and its a lose/lose situation. IMHO the democrats and republicans have a monopoly on power in this country...no matter who you vote for you end up screwed one way or another.

    That's still not a reason to not vote, however.

    BV
    Not necessariy aimed at you. Just a general statement that all Americans bitch about how screwed up and corrupt our political system is, a minority keep voting for the people who are screwing and corrupting our system, and the majority are too assinine to vote for the alternative that are present in almost every election.

  13. Last edited by jmh80; 05-28-2006 at 03:33 AM.

  14. Not necessariy aimed at you. Just a general statement that all Americans bitch about how screwed up and corrupt our political system is, a minority keep voting for the people who are screwing and corrupting our system, and the majority are too assinine to vote for the alternative that are present in almost every election.
    Oh I didnt take it that way bro - and I do agree with you. The people *do* have the power to change things through voting - but they dont. And then they whine and want the government that is in power *because* of their negligence to do something about it. Its kinda sad.

    BV

  15. Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    And BV the oil industry in this country is not controlled by the government. We are all publically listed companies. The only thing the government controlls is the taxes and also the land that can be drilled for oil.
    So, I'm not really sure what you mean.
    Government intervention screws up the market. Say you have a guy with a mine full of 20 million in silver. If he owns it, he can produce as he likes, cut production as he likes in anticipation of shortages and smooth out price fluctuations, sell shares based on the mines productivity over the long term and the productivity of the capital it generates. If he doesn't own it and it's regulated at the whim of the government, and one of those whims might be to kick him off, he has to produce nonstop and suck the mine dry as soon as possible while he still can, before the government kicks him out with some pieceof legislation. Or, before someone else comes in and pulls the silver out, which could happen since he has no claim of ownership. This legal constraint on ownership leads to a constant push towards production at any cost, leaving nothing held in reserve for possible future shortages. So prices of silver would be real low for a while as the owner of the above mine and others produce at breakneck speed. But, once the slightest hiccup hits the market and people realize there's no reserves because the government set up a legal situation with a lot of uncertainty, pushing people towards present production rather than a mix of present production and future speculation, ie cutting production and allocating the silver forward in time to where consumers needed it, the price of silver spikes.

    A similar situation pushes oil comanies further towards present production. Freedom of the seas and subsidies for exploration, etc. You subsidize the oil company, give them a tax break if they explore for oil in the areas the government says they can. Why not take the short term tax break, all it means is you do something now you were planning to do later. Then they tap a field and guess what? They don't own it, so it has to be sucked dry before anyone else can get into it. The situation described above unfolds.

    Telling oil companies where they can and can't drill is also a factor. local and state governments at the whim of NIMBY groups fighting against more refineries and more capacity are also a factor. Regional gas restrictions which lead to separate shipping needs are also a problem. Gas should be a fungible good, regulation makes it not so in many areas.

    A lot of people don't realize that the government adding a simple percentage tax, or a flat amount like ten cents on each gallon of gas, is the least damaging thing it can do to a market. More damaging is forcing prices lower, or legislating in such a way that distorts the production process, such a messing with property rights.

    The government controls the industry in the same sense it controls every individual and company. More to the point its interventions in the market **** up production and price structures and leave every worse off in the end.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by size
    Off topic, but have you ever read Keynes's "General Theory"? I vastly disagree with Keynes but a read worth reading.
    Do you have any clue how long it took me to get through The Wealth of Nations and Human Action? I swear that's why I need glasses these days is because of those books. General Theory I've read bits and pieces of, basically only the pieces I've needed to read. Most of my reading has been of Chicago Schoolers, Austrians and Socialists. Those are the three most important views of economics I think, the first insightful but misguided, the second right but too idealistic, and the third wrong and destructive.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    2.75 by next year? I'm already at 2.79, dude....lol....and that's for regular unleaded.
    Some of the stations here in Long Island New York are running out of regular unleaded.

  18. Well...that's not too horrible...because, now the ratio of reg to premium is only slightly premium heavy....its practically nothing now

  19. Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    Well...that's not too horrible...because, now the ratio of reg to premium is only slightly premium heavy....its practically nothing now
    One of my friends just ditched his old Mustang because anything other than premium would make the engine ping. V8 too, had tobe balls to the wall expensive these days. I lovemy Civic more and more every day. and I swear a ybrid is next most likely, despite high dealer service costs. A high repair bill every now and then is easier to deal with and absorb than constantly high fuel costs.

  20. You might want to check out diesel engines. My Jetta is getting 45 mpg. So yeah, take the housewife cruising around all day in the Sequoia, divide her gas prices by 3, and that's what I'm paying.

    I think Mercedes makes a diesel that gets mid to upper-30s for those going highend. Even my Dad's gigantic diesel Dodge Ram gets about 22 mpg. Way better than a gas burner. Plus, with a diesel your engine runs forever.

    As for the politcs of all of this, I'm personally a fan of our two party system. It's a bit unweildy at times, as we've discussed in this thread, but it keeps the kooks out of power and it keeps things stable. I'd rather have industry control things than see fringe factions striking out on some crazy new initiative to revolutionize society. Looking at Europe and other nations with multiple parties, I'm fairly convinced that the end result it almost always more government intervention. Keep it simple.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    One of my friends just ditched his old Mustang because anything other than premium would make the engine ping. V8 too, had tobe balls to the wall expensive these days. I lovemy Civic more and more every day. and I swear a ybrid is next most likely, despite high dealer service costs. A high repair bill every now and then is easier to deal with and absorb than constantly high fuel costs.
    I'm rockin' a base-model civic lol Down from a tundra, but now my pocket love me...

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn
    You were disappointed, but please don't tell me you were surprised. This is a man who has spent his life working in the oil industry, who is friends with big oil owners like the bin Ladins, who has done nothing but destroy environmental preservation regulations since he entered office. What exactly did you expect?
    To be fair to Bush and the Republicans, they were able to push through an energy bill that is going to construct new nuclear reactors (by far the cleanest energy source around) and new oil refineries, all which have been historically heavily resisted by the left for decades.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by MaynardMeek
    there are, the westernized world still has too much pull on what "we" wish to use to make our cars go. Iran is actually very close to using a safe biproduct of nuclear power to run small transportation... they aren't looking to drop any bombs on anyone, they are looking to be the leaders of the new free world's energy supply... but we ( oil using nations that see large $$ from it) are doing our best to hold that off for as long as possible
    Do you actually have a source on this because I simply don't buy it. At all.

    Here you have a nation where oil sales account for 80% of its exports. And this nation is using government funding (obtained from selling oil) to undermine the backbone of its economy?

    Right now Iran is sitting on one of the largest oil caches in the world. And unlike technology, not every nation on earth can have access to oil reserves. So you're telling us Iran (whose people can already get gas dirt cheap) is going to give up its monopoly to invest in a technology that is just going to be utilized by other nations more efficiently?

    I just don't think so. A nation sitting on essentially unlimited oil supplies is interested in supplying its fuel needs with nuclear energy. Sounds like a translucent smokescreen if I've ever seen one (or NOT, as it was).

  24. The problem with nuclear is that is only clean at the beginning because you have tons of waste materials that you have to sit on for thousands of years...

  25. Two good points (mtruther and matthewd)
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