F**cking Gas Prices

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    there are, the westernized world still has too much pull on what "we" wish to use to make our cars go. Iran is actually very close to using a safe biproduct of nuclear power to run small transportation... they aren't looking to drop any bombs on anyone, they are looking to be the leaders of the new free world's energy supply... but we ( oil using nations that see large $$ from it) are doing our best to hold that off for as long as possible

  2. Ron Paul... phuck yeah!
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    The Canadian tar sands contain an order of mag more oil than is in proven reserves. Problem is elasticity of demand for oil that is considerably more expensive in the raw-refining process. Figure > 2* that of conventional oil... it's profitable now, but reserves are still more than adequate, thereby limiting the near-term potential as there is a far cheaper to refine and deliver product.
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    We need more nuclear power....oh yeah more refineries its been awhile since we built another one.
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    :bb:
    Last edited by jmh80; 05-28-2006 at 02:31 AM.
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    Cool


    Yea, that's what I'm talking about but THAT BIKE is the number one killer and the insurance is high as hell on that bike. I already use my sportbike 80% or more and my truck is used only for shopping, dates and traveling.

    I was listening to the morning news today and they said it might reach $4.00 to $5.00 a gallon next year.



    Quote Originally Posted by darius
    When it gets $3.50 a gallon, cause right now its $2.80 here in Dallas, I want this:

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    I did see that wholesale gas prices dropped 11 cents yesterday. Not sure about today.

    That should take 2 weeks for the local gas station owners to come down on prices. Whereas the increases take a mere hour or so.
  7. -Dalla Hunga-
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    scary, too, because war is definitely in the backs of the minds of leades of the world...oil will most likely be necessary to stay on top and nobody wants to lose power. AT the smae time, we're going to have "underdog" countries looking to take advantage of the situation.

    We better find alternatives QUICK.
    They could have made it a point to take care of this sh*t and get us off the Middle East's oil spewing teat decades ago. But 'they' (the powers that be) didnt - because they're greedy bastards and sooo many big time politicians and businessman have made their wealth from the oil industry.

    Well, like I said in the above post - screw them. There are some alternatives that we, as the consumers, can use without 'inconvienencing' ourselves. You can set up a biodiesel still in your garage, do the brunt of your driving in a vegetable oil powered car, etc.

    Of course, absurdly high oil prices will trickle down into everything else we buy - and of course salaries wont rise to compensate. And most of the people in America will be poor and pissed off and the other 10% wont give a **** that oil cost so much because a.)They can afford it, and b.)They're raking it in by gouging the consumer.

    It just makes me sick - because you know its going to get a LOT worse before it gets better. If it ever gets better.

    BV
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    BigVrunga I agree 100% with you.

    A cynic might say it is a strange coincidence that the oil prices rise so, just after the USA conquered Irak, the world's what, 2nd, 3rd, biggest oil reserve? Yes that would be cynical because the USA LIBERATED Irak from tyranny. Of course, and it doesn't matter one bit that they are much worse off now than during the 10-year embargo that killed one MILLION children and women over there. Saying otherwise would be just TOO cynical.

    OTOH, all of a sudden, American companies get to basically take over the oil business on the Irak side of things, and BOOM the price of oil RISES. DRASTICALLY. Why isn't it lower now that Irak is liberated and the land of the free exerts its gentle democratic liberating power over that country? Shouldn't the caring kindness of beautiful democracy save people from having to choose between good food and fuel? Nah. Thinking that way would be way too cynical, right.

    It's a set up. All of it. It cannot possibly be that Bush got full support from EVERYONE for his little war for which he made up the official reason out of thin air, by promising riches from all the oil and "reconstruction" activities over there. That's undue cynicism, too, right? Don't flame me too hard - remember, flamethrowers run on (expensive) oil...
  9. CDB
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    They could have made it a point to take care of this sh*t and get us off the Middle East's oil spewing teat decades ago. But 'they' (the powers that be) didnt - because they're greedy bastards and sooo many big time politicians and businessman have made their wealth from the oil industry.
    Then Americans should stop voting for them, or stop not voting for other people. It's not like they don't have a choice.

    Well, like I said in the above post - screw them. There are some alternatives that we, as the consumers, can use without 'inconvienencing' ourselves. You can set up a biodiesel still in your garage, do the brunt of your driving in a vegetable oil powered car, etc.

    Of course, absurdly high oil prices will trickle down into everything else we buy - and of course salaries wont rise to compensate. And most of the people in America will be poor and pissed off and the other 10% wont give a **** that oil cost so much because a.)They can afford it, and b.)They're raking it in by gouging the consumer.
    Gouging is a myth and a hypocrisy. I don't think you'd take it too lightly if there were a scarcity of goods you possessed and the government came in and told you what you could and could not sell them for if people were willing to buy it at the prices you set. And if they weren't willing to buy you'd go out of business or have to lower the price.

    It just makes me sick - because you know its going to get a LOT worse before it gets better. If it ever gets better.
    End all government involvment in the industry and you'll likely see it get better. You don't see the proces of many other goods or services fluctuating so drastically, and when you do it's a guarantee the government is heavily involved.
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    Here's a link with the gas prices in Europe and other countries around the world:
    http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lis...bal_gasprices/

    I live in belgium and taxes make up like 65% of the gas cost here..
  11. -Dalla Hunga-
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    End all government involvment in the industry and you'll likely see it get better. You don't see the proces of many other goods or services fluctuating so drastically, and when you do it's a guarantee the government is heavily involved.
    I completely agree with you - I'd like to see a free market on oil in the US. Even if, at first prices skyrocketed, it would propel the energy industry to come up with viable alternatives a lot faster - which would eventually drive prices down.

    Then Americans should stop voting for them, or stop not voting for other people. It's not like they don't have a choice.
    I *dont* vote for these people!! A lot of times you look at who you have to vote for and its a lose/lose situation. IMHO the democrats and republicans have a monopoly on power in this country...no matter who you vote for you end up screwed one way or another.

    That's still not a reason to not vote, however.

    BV
  12. -Dalla Hunga-
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    Here's a link with the gas prices in Europe and other countries around the world:
    http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/li...obal_gasprices/

    I live in belgium and taxes make up like 65% of the gas cost here..
    I laughed when I saw Venezuela at $.12 a gallon!! Its not the high gas prices that piss me off - its that we're not doing enough to find alternative energy sources.
  13. Ron Paul... phuck yeah!
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    Venezuela's govt. subsidies. Really smart to sell distillates at $.10 on the dollar when you can export your production at 10x the revenue and support the entire economy. Genius... no wonder Venezuela is a toilet.
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    Last edited by jmh80; 05-28-2006 at 02:32 AM.
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    It doesn't look so bad when you compare it to most of Europe, but I don't like the fact that the cheapest gas I have found is $2.82 a gallon, by ARCO of course.
  16. -Dalla Hunga-
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    And BV the oil industry in this country is not controlled by the government. We are all publically listed companies. The only thing the government controlls is the taxes and also the land that can be drilled for oil.
    So, I'm not really sure what you mean.
    Some politicians have a lot of money vested in the oil industry - so I think there isnt as big of a push to find a 'real' alternative energy source as there should be. I dont know though - maybe it doesnt work that way...I tend to be really cynical of anything that has to do with the government - even before I have all the facts.
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    Maybe these prices will finally get all these HUGE suv's off the road.

    As for me, my protege gets 35 mpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    Gouging is a myth and a hypocrisy.
    So true. However, you understand economics, Mises, oiligopoly, monpolyfree markets, etc., while most do not. Oil pricing is rather simple.

    Off topic, but have you ever read Keynes's "General Theory"? I vastly disagree with Keynes but a read worth reading.
  19. -Dalla Hunga-
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    Maybe these prices will finally get all these HUGE suv's off the road.

    As for me, my protege gets 35 mpg
    That's what Im saying - I sold my Explorer and got a Honda Accord.
  20. Running with the Big Boys
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    My camry gets 30 but the wife's van only gets about 22 or so
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    And Jap cars have locked gas doors

    The main reason for gas prices rising is the weakening of the dollar. My colleague was yapping about it 2-3 yrs ago about how prices were going to hit 80 (a barrel) and the dollar was in trouble.
    Last edited by MarcusG; 08-21-2005 at 01:01 PM.
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    im definitely going to feel the hurt now that im out of nyc. didnt have to worry about gas prices while living in the city. just dropped 60 bones to fill up my first tank of gas in 6 years. its quite ass but the rate should plateau out wouldnt you say?
    Sage
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    Quote Originally Posted by sage
    im definitely going to feel the hurt now that im out of nyc. didnt have to worry about gas prices while living in the city. just dropped 60 bones to fill up my first tank of gas in 6 years. its quite ass but the rate should plateau out wouldnt you say?
    Sage
    jmh80 said it will hit 3.50 by april.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    jmh80 said it will hit 3.50 by april.....
    unleaded? ahhh!!!!
    Sage
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    ...
    Last edited by jmh80; 05-28-2006 at 02:33 AM.
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    2.75 by next year? I'm already at 2.79, dude....lol....and that's for regular unleaded.
  27. CDB
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    I *dont* vote for these people!! A lot of times you look at who you have to vote for and its a lose/lose situation. IMHO the democrats and republicans have a monopoly on power in this country...no matter who you vote for you end up screwed one way or another.

    That's still not a reason to not vote, however.

    BV
    Not necessariy aimed at you. Just a general statement that all Americans bitch about how screwed up and corrupt our political system is, a minority keep voting for the people who are screwing and corrupting our system, and the majority are too assinine to vote for the alternative that are present in almost every election.
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    Last edited by jmh80; 05-28-2006 at 02:33 AM.
  29. -Dalla Hunga-
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    Not necessariy aimed at you. Just a general statement that all Americans bitch about how screwed up and corrupt our political system is, a minority keep voting for the people who are screwing and corrupting our system, and the majority are too assinine to vote for the alternative that are present in almost every election.
    Oh I didnt take it that way bro - and I do agree with you. The people *do* have the power to change things through voting - but they dont. And then they whine and want the government that is in power *because* of their negligence to do something about it. Its kinda sad.

    BV
  30. CDB
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    And BV the oil industry in this country is not controlled by the government. We are all publically listed companies. The only thing the government controlls is the taxes and also the land that can be drilled for oil.
    So, I'm not really sure what you mean.
    Government intervention screws up the market. Say you have a guy with a mine full of 20 million in silver. If he owns it, he can produce as he likes, cut production as he likes in anticipation of shortages and smooth out price fluctuations, sell shares based on the mines productivity over the long term and the productivity of the capital it generates. If he doesn't own it and it's regulated at the whim of the government, and one of those whims might be to kick him off, he has to produce nonstop and suck the mine dry as soon as possible while he still can, before the government kicks him out with some pieceof legislation. Or, before someone else comes in and pulls the silver out, which could happen since he has no claim of ownership. This legal constraint on ownership leads to a constant push towards production at any cost, leaving nothing held in reserve for possible future shortages. So prices of silver would be real low for a while as the owner of the above mine and others produce at breakneck speed. But, once the slightest hiccup hits the market and people realize there's no reserves because the government set up a legal situation with a lot of uncertainty, pushing people towards present production rather than a mix of present production and future speculation, ie cutting production and allocating the silver forward in time to where consumers needed it, the price of silver spikes.

    A similar situation pushes oil comanies further towards present production. Freedom of the seas and subsidies for exploration, etc. You subsidize the oil company, give them a tax break if they explore for oil in the areas the government says they can. Why not take the short term tax break, all it means is you do something now you were planning to do later. Then they tap a field and guess what? They don't own it, so it has to be sucked dry before anyone else can get into it. The situation described above unfolds.

    Telling oil companies where they can and can't drill is also a factor. local and state governments at the whim of NIMBY groups fighting against more refineries and more capacity are also a factor. Regional gas restrictions which lead to separate shipping needs are also a problem. Gas should be a fungible good, regulation makes it not so in many areas.

    A lot of people don't realize that the government adding a simple percentage tax, or a flat amount like ten cents on each gallon of gas, is the least damaging thing it can do to a market. More damaging is forcing prices lower, or legislating in such a way that distorts the production process, such a messing with property rights.

    The government controls the industry in the same sense it controls every individual and company. More to the point its interventions in the market **** up production and price structures and leave every worse off in the end.
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