F**cking Gas Prices

[CDB]

Hey jmh80,
The oil companies LOVE it when the price of oil goes up, and
wouldn't doubt it one bit if they encourage high prices. No telling
how they or what they do to keep it high...

The economics of oil is a little more complicated than that. There are different types of crude that can be refined to certain products, not all to gasoline. There are a myriad of suppliers around the world. There are also a myriad of reasons for high gas prices and the high price of oil overall. Uncertainty, a ****load of regulations saying what gas can be sold where, requiring separate shipping, storage, etc. A ****load more regulations stopping the building of new refineries. No ownership in resources, pushing oil companies into a present oriented mode which usually leads to wild price fluctuations. Etc. The oil companies don't love it anymore than anyone else because a high price doesn't automatically translate into a high profit. People make a mistake when they think that when a price goes up the difference between the previous and current price is pure profit. If Americans, of which I am one, are sick of paying so much for gas, they should stop driving so much.

PRICE GOUGING, and it's going on right now....
8 billion $ profit , give me a break, how about building some
oil refineries ? They been saying that for years.....

Try getting one built. You'll also find a ****load of economists who are finally admitting price gouging is a political concept, not an economic one. The owner of something has the right to charge whatever they want for it. Don't like it, don't buy it.

I guarantee that Oil companies are testing the american people right now
as far as how high they can raise the price of oil/gas before
the majority of people start walking the streets in protest.

Yup, that's exactly what they want. To spark protests in the street against themselves.

It's amazing how fast the gas stations raise the price of gas from one
day to the next , and so slow to bring it down when the price of oil
goes down.

Uncertainty hits fast and dies slow. It's just a fact of life. Perhaps if oil companies were allowed ownership of the resources they bust their asses to find instead of submitting to freedom of the seas they could allocate resources better. That way if they tap a field it doesn't have to be pumped dry before someone else comes in and does it. This would allow companies more freedom to speculate on future trends and hold back some production in the present to allocate those resources to the future, where they're needed. It's the difference of seeing prices go real low and then real high and seeing them go moderately lower and then a lot higher, ie. (1.65 to 2.15 per gallon instead of 1.25 to 2.95 per gallon). Also we in the US could drop regional regulations so gas that's sold in one state can be sold in another. That would relax shipping and storage costs. That would also make it easier for refineries to cover each other if one has to drop below operating at near 100% capacity. Right now since the same gas can't be sold everywhere regional shortages can and do lead to more wild price fluctuations. Speaking of which, kill the NIMBY groups so more refineries can be built.

Glad you're making a profit, but more than a few americans are starting to
feel the crunch......
at least the ones I know.....

joe

If he weren't making a profit the business wouldn't be there producing oil to begin with. He has a right to profit from his work. No one has the right to cheap oil or gas at some elses' expense, whatever they may expect. Since the market when allowed to operate without interference has reduced the prices of everything from computers to cars to clothes to televisions, maybe we could get the government out of the business of ****ing with the oil markets so heavily and regulating the related industries so heavily and you'd see a price drop over time like in any other business. If they're starting to feel the crunch the market is doing what it should. A resource exists which is surrounded by uncertainty and high demand. The price goes up, people buy less, this heads off future shortages which would happen if companies were forced to keep selling at artificially lower prices. So it comes down to this: would you rather have gas at near 3 bucks a gallon now or 2 bucks a gallon now and then 6 bucks a gallon in a year, or no gas at all in a year?

Despite the winces of pain they can cause, prices, any price, are just information. They are a measure of value, the only objective one that exists.

[Brooklyn]

The economics of oil is a little more complicated than that.

No, it's a red tape issue. We have a government which refuses to cut through red tape. Speaking of red, how many people are seeing red over what is perceived as President Bush's reluctance to assist with the rampant increases in fuel prices? It seems rather clear when the Saudis go against OPEC and produce more oil as if it is a favor to us... that it actually benefits them and oil prices here do not decrease.

I guarantee that Oil companies are testing the american people right now
as far as how high they can raise the price of oil/gas before
the majority of people start walking the streets in protest.

That won't happen. America has become too pussified to protest much of anything. This country lets atrocities far more appalling than gas prices go unanswered. They'll just be a lot of bitching and moaning and for some, economy car purchases. Take New Jersey as an example. Has anyone ever actually protested the absurd levies on driving and living in that state? Has anyone looked at how much it costs just to have the ability to drive in New York? You're taxed on property you already own, as if you owe something to the government for you owning a piece of the "Land of the Free." In some states, you pay property taxes on your car every year. Kansas raised traffic violations fines to three times as much money as they were before. I don't see revolts in the streets on account of any of this. No, the gas companies, like the government, will continue to rape America and Americans will continue to bend over and take it. Now you tell me, is that pessimism or is that reality?

What is this silliness which assumes an oil shortage as the cause of the high prices? There is no such shortage. The shortage is not in supply of crude but in supply of refined oil. It's refineries which there is a shortage of. Find a way to build more and that oil company excuse will be null and void. This is what the President should be focusing on, if he had the ability to focus on anything but his own interests and what his advisors tell him to do. Since when has Bush cared about environmentalists?

If Americans, of which I am one, are sick of paying so much for gas, they should stop driving so much.

In the Shakespearean play Julius Caesar, Brutus is an idealist. Led to believe through unrealistic ideas on how to restore Rome's former glory by Cassius the power-hungry cynic, he murders his friend and patriot Caesar. The problem is that the Rome of Brutus' dreams never truly existed. It was a concept; a pipe dream of what could be, or what should be. Similar is any comment on America greatly reducing its vehicle use. That is, shall I say, highly unlikely. Let us not speculate first on the most unlikely of probabilties, lest we come to find regret too late as did Brutus.

[jmh80]

Good post CDB.

[Ethereal]

I saw we all boycott Exon Mobile and just go to other gas station like Citgo, Liberty, 76, Chevron, whatever, but stop going Exon Mobile. When the E-M brings their prices down, everyone else has to compete.

[DAdams91982]

Wow... Im over in germany.. and trust me... America has it cheap compared. When the dollar is converted, and all it is about 5 - 6 bux a gallon here.

Adams

[jmh80]

I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok.

[Blackwolf]

Hey jmh80, well, it doesn't matter if the company has a high selling price/margin when
they are still making record profits does it?

As far as the refineries go, you know there's corrutption involved, with the people
that have to appove the paper work then. They probably are getting cut-backs or
some type of perks to keep the number of refineries low. You hear about this sort
of thing in all walks of life. We knew years and years ago we needed more oil
refineries.
Lobbiest and greed.....

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/11/lob...ica/index.html

Lou Dobbs talks about it all the time, you may not agree with him,but how about
this highway bill that just passed? 15 billion $ tax breaks for oil companies ! lol.


Hey CDB, good post, I know it's complicated, but the strange thing is
as soon as the price of oil goes up gas prices at the pump rise, but when
the price of oil goes down , it takes a lot longer for it to trickle down to the
gas stations.

Well, it easy to say don't like it don't buy it , but when it comes to gas, if that
happened the poor/middle class would be the first to suffer, as many are already.

The record profits should speak for itself.

joe

[jmh80]

[Matthew D]

Personally I wish that we would move complete away from the use of petro-chemicals in general...

[Mach .78]

Personally I wish that we would move complete away from the use of petro-chemicals in general...

Just like my generation would like to see the younger generation pull themselves away from their X- Box, get up of their fat asses and exercise more. Probably never happen.

Higher gas prices mean less cars on the road, what a blessing. We all need to get good education to get good jobs to pay for gas. People who are struggling to pay for gas here in S. Florida don't have insurance either. You can now have the six pack you have always wanted, when your beer money goes in your gas tank. You wake up with no hangover and drive wherever the hell you want. The possibilities are endless.

[not_big_enuf]

Time to chime in and I'm sure it's going to irk some.

What are gas prices like compared to Europe? I'm pretty sure the US is DRASTICALLY lower. Perhaps I'm wrong.

The problem with the US is we don't want to be inconvenienced. We want to drive our gas-guzzling machines everywhere. We drive our trucks our big cars and then complain about gas prices. Why not get an economical car? Well, of course, we need a vehicle for our boat, we need to haul our kids, blah blah blah. Again, the convenience factor. I don't buy it.

What about public transportation? Well that inconvenient. I live in Minneapolis, a metro area and people heavily UNDER utilize public transportation. Why? Convenience. We want to be able to leave when we want. We don't want to add an extra 30 minutes to our commute. Time is money you know! Again, people don't want to be inconvenienced. Take the bus and schedule your meetings accordingly. Don't enroll your kids in 12 activities and force them to figure out their own things to do and use their mind. Or heaven forbid they go to the park and play instead of going to a scheduled activity.

My wife and I are just as guilty as anyone else in the US, but we're slowly realizing there are many way to cut costs DRASTICLY and NOT use the car for every single thing we want to do. We now carpool to work, and have made it work.

Do you really NEED a truck, a car, a van? Probably not, but we want the convenience. How are going to tow our boat or live without? Well, that's what you pay for... you live in the most convenienced country in the world... you can do anything you want with more luxuries than anywhere else... so a few extra dollars for gas should hardly kill you.

Instead of 3 trips to the store a week, why not make one? Why not live without the milk for a couple more days?

Sry, but the gas complaint is one that I don't see eye-to-eye with many on. We're so spoiled with the gas prices we have compared to others that I think we need to open our eyes and see how spoiled we really are and we truly have over here. We've CREATED our own dependence and now it's starting to hurt a little and instead of looking at how to remedy it with other options, we complain.

Ok, sry, I'm done with my soapbox... and I'm sorry to criticize, but it comes back to the laziness factor so often and that really irks me with the US. We're fat and lazy and this is just another example of how we want every convenience all the time.

[Nitrox]

I think there is 'red tape' and politics in every market. Look at the diamond business. DeBeers carefully controls that market yet you dont see people marching with pitchforks about it.

In North America we are used to having our cake and eating it too. However the global reality is catching up with us. Emerging economies are increasing demand and supply is slowly decreasing - it's as simple as that.

I have to admit that I was disappointed when Bush declared that he would not back energy conservation if it there was potential for negative impact on the economy. Given fossil fuel projections and the reliance on oil from 'unstable' foreign countries, I thought it was a great opportunity to get the ball rolling. With some government tax incentives we could have had competitively priced hybrid or diesel technology by now.

Where I live in Canada, gas prices are US$3.40 per gallon. They are even higher in Europe but at least they have extensive and clean diesel options, even for larger passenger cars. Not too mention closer proximities and (usually) decent public transportation.

So I think we need to stop bellyaching about the prices. If we want to make a statement, vote with our dollars and do whatever we can to use less energy.

[Uppercut]

Try the UK @ £4 a gallon (£7.23852 us dollars to be precise)
You guys need to make a stand now, a few years ago us brits tried to stand up to the price rises but the goverment knew that all they had too do was sit tight and we would back down. true enough as soon as the supermarkets started to run dry we just folded over like a badly stacked house a cards...now they have us over a (oil) Barrell and now they just sit and rub their hands as everytime we fill up at least 80% of it is tax and goes straight in their coffers.

:shaftedinass:

[Brooklyn]

What are gas prices like compared to Europe? I'm pretty sure the US is DRASTICALLY lower.

So what you're actually implying is that Europeans are pretty dumb for paying such high prices for gas all along. This doesn't mean that Americans should pay more. The complaint of Europeans has always been paying far more for gasoline. Maybe they should try getting their politicians to get better deals on oil and lower the taxes on its importation. Perspective is important.

In North America we are used to having our cake and eating it too. However the global reality is catching up with us. Emerging economies are increasing demand and supply is slowly decreasing - it's as simple as that.

That's absurd. There is no lack of raw crude supply for the next 50 years or more. Perhaps we haven't found enough of it, but all projections I've seen have shown that there is enough oil in the earth to support continued fossil fuel use. I will repeat, there are not enough refineries with the capacity to process the oil. Oil companies like higher prices. They make more money. Why should they go through the hassle of building new refineries when they can make more profit with less effort?

I have to admit that I was disappointed when Bush declared that he would not back energy conservation if it there was potential for negative impact on the economy.

You were disappointed, but please don't tell me you were surprised. This is a man who has spent his life working in the oil industry, who is friends with big oil owners like the bin Ladins, who has done nothing but destroy environmental preservation regulations since he entered office. What exactly did you expect?

[liftWV]

Gas hit 2.69 in most of WV today

[Nitrox]

That's absurd. There is no lack of raw crude supply for the next 50 years or more. Perhaps we haven't found enough of it, but all projections I've seen have shown that there is enough oil in the earth to support continued fossil fuel use. I will repeat, there are not enough refineries with the capacity to process the oil. Oil companies like higher prices. They make more money. Why should they go through the hassle of building new refineries when they can make more profit with less effort?


You were disappointed, but please don't tell me you were surprised. This is a man who has spent his life working in the oil industry, who is friends with big oil owners like the bin Ladins, who has done nothing but destroy environmental preservation regulations since he entered office. What exactly did you expect?

Hardly absurd. Crude oil supply, refineries, dead Saudi Kings, voodoo hexes, whatever... There is inadequate supply to achieve the prices that people are more comfortable with. I think it is unrealistic to expect one's governement to dictate international corporation decisions. That's not to say it cant be done. Monetary incentives, political pressure, or even military action are viable but not always cost effective or ethical. Not too mention contrary to the spirit of the free-market system that our countries are built on.

As for Bush, being Canadian, I knew nothing about him until he was elected. Being each others neighbour and largest trading partner, canadians are not totally ignorant of US politics but our knowledge is typically limited to the top tier Feds (or whoever jumps in from pop culture). Although I will admit that I'm surprised that he has not taken some remedial action given the market situation and his connection to the oil industry (and now conflict of interest).

[Sir Foxx]

I did hear about that and I think it was a rider on the energy bill...
and DT, I am like you I am close enough to work I could ride my bike if I needed to.. or decided that I need to save my gas for going to my grad classes..
But it is retarded that the gas prices are going up but at the same time I have seen estimates that we don't have but 20-50 years worth of oil unless we have other countries start using more like India and China, then the estimates start dipping even lower to 10 or 15 years.. I just hope that we decide soon that we don't really need oil in our future and start working extremely hard on alt fuel sources..

This is a total fallacy. The tar pits in Canada contain an estimated 260 billion barrels of oil just waiting to be tapped. That is more than all of the Middle East. If the planet continues to use oil at its current rate, that resource alone will keep going for at least 100 years, and that is just one source of oil. Granted oil use will go up, but this whole thing about oil becoming scarce are nothing more than scare tactics by misguided and misinformed "experts".

On top of that North America contains an estimated 730million year coal reserve.

[Matthew D]

Mach I am older than you are And as for pulling younger generation from the X box.. my two kids don't even own one... and won't

[Matthew D]

This is a total fallacy. The tar pits in Canada contain an estimated 260 billion barrels of oil just waiting to be tapped. That is more than all of the Middle East. If the planet continues to use oil at its current rate, that resource alone will keep going for at least 100 years, and that is just one source of oil. Granted oil use will go up, but this whole thing about oil becoming scarce are nothing more than scare tactics by misguided and misinformed "experts".

On top of that North America contains an estimated 730million year coal reserve.

I guess that the damage caused to the environment do from mining, drilling, and use of fossil fuels is just a scare tactic also? and just because it is there does that mean it can be used?

[Sir Foxx]

Hey, I'm all for the Star Trek lifestyle, with antimatter and dilithium crystals being our power source, but until we have those things, we might as well use what we have.