F**cking Gas Prices

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  1. I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok.
    Last edited by jmh80; 05-28-2006 at 03:27 AM.


  2. Hey jmh80, well, it doesn't matter if the company has a high selling price/margin when
    they are still making record profits does it?

    As far as the refineries go, you know there's corrutption involved, with the people
    that have to appove the paper work then. They probably are getting cut-backs or
    some type of perks to keep the number of refineries low. You hear about this sort
    of thing in all walks of life. We knew years and years ago we needed more oil
    refineries.
    Lobbiest and greed.....

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/11/lob...ica/index.html

    Lou Dobbs talks about it all the time, you may not agree with him,but how about
    this highway bill that just passed? 15 billion $ tax breaks for oil companies ! lol.


    Hey CDB, good post, I know it's complicated, but the strange thing is
    as soon as the price of oil goes up gas prices at the pump rise, but when
    the price of oil goes down , it takes a lot longer for it to trickle down to the
    gas stations.

    Well, it easy to say don't like it don't buy it , but when it comes to gas, if that
    happened the poor/middle class would be the first to suffer, as many are already.

    The record profits should speak for itself.

    joe
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  3. Last edited by jmh80; 05-28-2006 at 03:27 AM.

  4. Personally I wish that we would move complete away from the use of petro-chemicals in general...

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Matthew D
    Personally I wish that we would move complete away from the use of petro-chemicals in general...
    Just like my generation would like to see the younger generation pull themselves away from their X- Box, get up of their fat asses and exercise more. Probably never happen.

    Higher gas prices mean less cars on the road, what a blessing. We all need to get good education to get good jobs to pay for gas. People who are struggling to pay for gas here in S. Florida don't have insurance either. You can now have the six pack you have always wanted, when your beer money goes in your gas tank. You wake up with no hangover and drive wherever the hell you want. The possibilities are endless.
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  6. Time to chime in and I'm sure it's going to irk some.

    What are gas prices like compared to Europe? I'm pretty sure the US is DRASTICALLY lower. Perhaps I'm wrong.

    The problem with the US is we don't want to be inconvenienced. We want to drive our gas-guzzling machines everywhere. We drive our trucks our big cars and then complain about gas prices. Why not get an economical car? Well, of course, we need a vehicle for our boat, we need to haul our kids, blah blah blah. Again, the convenience factor. I don't buy it.

    What about public transportation? Well that inconvenient. I live in Minneapolis, a metro area and people heavily UNDER utilize public transportation. Why? Convenience. We want to be able to leave when we want. We don't want to add an extra 30 minutes to our commute. Time is money you know! Again, people don't want to be inconvenienced. Take the bus and schedule your meetings accordingly. Don't enroll your kids in 12 activities and force them to figure out their own things to do and use their mind. Or heaven forbid they go to the park and play instead of going to a scheduled activity.

    My wife and I are just as guilty as anyone else in the US, but we're slowly realizing there are many way to cut costs DRASTICLY and NOT use the car for every single thing we want to do. We now carpool to work, and have made it work.

    Do you really NEED a truck, a car, a van? Probably not, but we want the convenience. How are going to tow our boat or live without? Well, that's what you pay for... you live in the most convenienced country in the world... you can do anything you want with more luxuries than anywhere else... so a few extra dollars for gas should hardly kill you.

    Instead of 3 trips to the store a week, why not make one? Why not live without the milk for a couple more days?

    Sry, but the gas complaint is one that I don't see eye-to-eye with many on. We're so spoiled with the gas prices we have compared to others that I think we need to open our eyes and see how spoiled we really are and we truly have over here. We've CREATED our own dependence and now it's starting to hurt a little and instead of looking at how to remedy it with other options, we complain.

    Ok, sry, I'm done with my soapbox... and I'm sorry to criticize, but it comes back to the laziness factor so often and that really irks me with the US. We're fat and lazy and this is just another example of how we want every convenience all the time.

  7. I think there is 'red tape' and politics in every market. Look at the diamond business. DeBeers carefully controls that market yet you dont see people marching with pitchforks about it.

    In North America we are used to having our cake and eating it too. However the global reality is catching up with us. Emerging economies are increasing demand and supply is slowly decreasing - it's as simple as that.

    I have to admit that I was disappointed when Bush declared that he would not back energy conservation if it there was potential for negative impact on the economy. Given fossil fuel projections and the reliance on oil from 'unstable' foreign countries, I thought it was a great opportunity to get the ball rolling. With some government tax incentives we could have had competitively priced hybrid or diesel technology by now.

    Where I live in Canada, gas prices are US$3.40 per gallon. They are even higher in Europe but at least they have extensive and clean diesel options, even for larger passenger cars. Not too mention closer proximities and (usually) decent public transportation.

    So I think we need to stop bellyaching about the prices. If we want to make a statement, vote with our dollars and do whatever we can to use less energy.

  8. Try the UK @ £4 a gallon (£7.23852 us dollars to be precise)
    You guys need to make a stand now, a few years ago us brits tried to stand up to the price rises but the goverment knew that all they had too do was sit tight and we would back down. true enough as soon as the supermarkets started to run dry we just folded over like a badly stacked house a cards...now they have us over a (oil) Barrell and now they just sit and rub their hands as everytime we fill up at least 80% of it is tax and goes straight in their coffers.

    :shaftedinass:

  9. What are gas prices like compared to Europe? I'm pretty sure the US is DRASTICALLY lower.
    So what you're actually implying is that Europeans are pretty dumb for paying such high prices for gas all along. This doesn't mean that Americans should pay more. The complaint of Europeans has always been paying far more for gasoline. Maybe they should try getting their politicians to get better deals on oil and lower the taxes on its importation. Perspective is important.

    In North America we are used to having our cake and eating it too. However the global reality is catching up with us. Emerging economies are increasing demand and supply is slowly decreasing - it's as simple as that.
    That's absurd. There is no lack of raw crude supply for the next 50 years or more. Perhaps we haven't found enough of it, but all projections I've seen have shown that there is enough oil in the earth to support continued fossil fuel use. I will repeat, there are not enough refineries with the capacity to process the oil. Oil companies like higher prices. They make more money. Why should they go through the hassle of building new refineries when they can make more profit with less effort?

    I have to admit that I was disappointed when Bush declared that he would not back energy conservation if it there was potential for negative impact on the economy.
    You were disappointed, but please don't tell me you were surprised. This is a man who has spent his life working in the oil industry, who is friends with big oil owners like the bin Ladins, who has done nothing but destroy environmental preservation regulations since he entered office. What exactly did you expect?

  10. Gas hit 2.69 in most of WV today

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn
    That's absurd. There is no lack of raw crude supply for the next 50 years or more. Perhaps we haven't found enough of it, but all projections I've seen have shown that there is enough oil in the earth to support continued fossil fuel use. I will repeat, there are not enough refineries with the capacity to process the oil. Oil companies like higher prices. They make more money. Why should they go through the hassle of building new refineries when they can make more profit with less effort?


    You were disappointed, but please don't tell me you were surprised. This is a man who has spent his life working in the oil industry, who is friends with big oil owners like the bin Ladins, who has done nothing but destroy environmental preservation regulations since he entered office. What exactly did you expect?
    Hardly absurd. Crude oil supply, refineries, dead Saudi Kings, voodoo hexes, whatever... There is inadequate supply to achieve the prices that people are more comfortable with. I think it is unrealistic to expect one's governement to dictate international corporation decisions. That's not to say it cant be done. Monetary incentives, political pressure, or even military action are viable but not always cost effective or ethical. Not too mention contrary to the spirit of the free-market system that our countries are built on.

    As for Bush, being Canadian, I knew nothing about him until he was elected. Being each others neighbour and largest trading partner, canadians are not totally ignorant of US politics but our knowledge is typically limited to the top tier Feds (or whoever jumps in from pop culture). Although I will admit that I'm surprised that he has not taken some remedial action given the market situation and his connection to the oil industry (and now conflict of interest).

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Matthew D
    I did hear about that and I think it was a rider on the energy bill...
    and DT, I am like you I am close enough to work I could ride my bike if I needed to.. or decided that I need to save my gas for going to my grad classes..
    But it is retarded that the gas prices are going up but at the same time I have seen estimates that we don't have but 20-50 years worth of oil unless we have other countries start using more like India and China, then the estimates start dipping even lower to 10 or 15 years.. I just hope that we decide soon that we don't really need oil in our future and start working extremely hard on alt fuel sources..

    This is a total fallacy. The tar pits in Canada contain an estimated 260 billion barrels of oil just waiting to be tapped. That is more than all of the Middle East. If the planet continues to use oil at its current rate, that resource alone will keep going for at least 100 years, and that is just one source of oil. Granted oil use will go up, but this whole thing about oil becoming scarce are nothing more than scare tactics by misguided and misinformed "experts".

    On top of that North America contains an estimated 730million year coal reserve.

  13. Mach I am older than you are And as for pulling younger generation from the X box.. my two kids don't even own one... and won't

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Sir Foxx
    This is a total fallacy. The tar pits in Canada contain an estimated 260 billion barrels of oil just waiting to be tapped. That is more than all of the Middle East. If the planet continues to use oil at its current rate, that resource alone will keep going for at least 100 years, and that is just one source of oil. Granted oil use will go up, but this whole thing about oil becoming scarce are nothing more than scare tactics by misguided and misinformed "experts".

    On top of that North America contains an estimated 730million year coal reserve.
    I guess that the damage caused to the environment do from mining, drilling, and use of fossil fuels is just a scare tactic also? and just because it is there does that mean it can be used?

  15. Hey, I'm all for the Star Trek lifestyle, with antimatter and dilithium crystals being our power source, but until we have those things, we might as well use what we have.

  16. I sold my truck and bought a Honda Accord. (freaking awesome car - 28mpg average city/hwy, 33+ on long trips). When I have the proper facilites, Ill be driving a diesel converted to run on vegetable oil.

    Energy is something we all need, and the 'man' is just going to use it as another vehicle to enslave the middle and lower socioeconomic class and keep them where they are - mindless spending, buying what the media tells them to. They have to if they are to hold on to their positions of power,wealth and influence.

    Does that soccer mom 'need' that GMC Denali? Nope. But they'll keep buying, and fuel prices will keep rising. And Ill drive around with death metal blasting out of my fryer oil powered VW telling everyone to go fu*k themselves

    BV

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Matthew D
    Mach I am older than you are And as for pulling younger generation from the X box.. my two kids don't even own one... and won't
    Good man. They are most likely athletic as well. Keep up the good work.

  18. I'm not taking star trek... I am talking about things like solar power Fox

  19. Hey jmh80, thanks for understanding the frustration....

    I saw Lou Dobbs talking about refineries in Usa today and he basicly
    was saying that 6(or maybe 7? don't remember)
    refineries were off line in america right now and another (7 or 6?)
    weren't running at full capacity.. He said why all of a sudden were so
    many down or partially down when we need them up and running ?
    I can tell your knowledge is way over my head in this subject, and really
    don't have much time for debating, but appreciate you taking the time
    to try and explain your side......
    I still think at this time , the oil companies should be trying to work
    with the america people ....
    just my opinion....
    It will have a back firing effect sooner or later....

    joe

  20. Crude and distillate inventories are higher now than they were when oil was hitting $40. There aren't any shortages of distillates other than jet fuel in some markets due to "just in time" inventory management by the airlines. They adopted this approach b/c they neglected to hedge their exposure to crude.

    The price at the pump is nearly a perfect correlation to the price of unleaded futures. There is convexity related to taxes, carry and storage+shipping, but it's pennies. I trade 1000s of crude oil option contracts a week. Trust me, the only conspiracy is the lemmings that make up the hedge fund community. The price is rallying due to speculative positions. Buying begets buying, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

  21. Have fun at over $3.50 around the country by next April. No thanks to our spinless Congressmen for not attempting legislation around the US for MTBE.



    See - I was close. It was around $3 in most of the US. All Congress' fault....
    Last edited by jmh80; 05-28-2006 at 03:29 AM.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    Have fun at over $3.50 around the country by next April. No thanks to our spinless Congressmen for not attempting legislation around the US for MTBE.
    OMFG you've got to be kidding me?

  23. I'm serious.

    Supply and demand bro. Supply and demand.
    The prices haven't caught up to the meteoric rise in crude in the last 3 weeks (over $10). EVEN IF crude stabalizes, gas will rise independent.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by jmh80
    I'm serious. Supply and demand bro. Supply and demand.
    Markets move towards equilibrium; this is currently a demand related issue not a supply issue. Some economists will tell you that oil prices are "falsely" elevated due to a "terrorism tax" being levied on prices. Some specualte that this "terrorism tax" could be anywhere from 10-20 american dollars.

    Also, I think it is important to recognize that OPEC is a oligopoly. In such a market form, collusion is rather simple. OPEC is a cartel and thus cartel economics apply. Cartels tend to limit supply (often falsely) to fix prices or increase prices. In the long run, one member of the cartel will break rank and prices will move (often down) again.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Matthew D
    I'm not taking star trek... I am talking about things like solar power Fox
    I know, I was just being facetious. No harm meant.
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