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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    I think Mitt Romney will do a fantastic job. Look at Massachusetts unemployment rate during the Romney administration. The fact that he is for natural resources alone means a few things - more jobs, lower electricity prices, lower fuel costs.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...UQXV_blog.html (perspective)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    I'm also a nurse. ObamaCare is basically a death sentence for the elderly. Medicaid will no longer pay for things like dialysis, which is needed for patients with kidney failure, which basically means if your kidneys fail and you're not rich, Obama is sentencing you to death. In a short paragraph, it's just basically Obamas way of saying "if you don't have the money, you're out of time".
    Specifically, which part of his healthcare bill speaks to the statement above?
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Of course, another persuasively written liberal article.

    If you ask me, all that article says is that Romney did more in 1 month than Obama has done in the 4 years he's been President.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    Of course, another persuasively written liberal article.

    If you ask me, all that article says is that Romney did more in 1 month than Obama has done in the 4 years he's been President.
    You're right. It's one huge conspiracy. Washington Post is in on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    You're right. It's one huge conspiracy. Washington Post is in on it.
    Of course there's no conspiracy, there just managed to be tons of dead people vote for Obama in 2008.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    Of course there's no conspiracy, there just managed to be tons of dead people vote for Obama in 2008.
    Right

    By the way, you saw what I asked you above? Provide a response to that if you can. "Specifically, which part of his healthcare bill speaks to the statement above?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Right

    By the way, you saw what I asked you above? Provide a response to that if you can. "Specifically, which part of his healthcare bill speaks to the statement above?"
    Oh boy, I'll enjoy this one. I live nowhere from this.

    "I had one of the most troubling, most disturbing conversations ever with Dr. Suzanne Allen, head of emergency services at the Johnson City Medical Center in Tennessee. We were discussing the "future" and I asked her had she seen an affects of Obama Care in her work?

    "Oh, yes. We are seeing cutbacks throughout the services we provide. For example, we are now having to deal with patients who would normally receive dialysis can no longer be accepted. In the past, there was always automatic approval under M edicare for anyone who needed dialysis -- not anymore." So, what will be their outcome? "They will die soon without dialysis," she stated.

    What about other services? She indicated as of 2013 (after the election), no one over 75 will be given major medical procedures unless approved by locally administered Ethics Panels. These Panels will determine whether a patient receives medical treatment or not. W hile details on specific operating procedures and schedules, Dr. Allen points out that most life-threatening emergencies do not occur during normal hospital business hours, and if there are emergencies that depend to be resolve within minutes or just few hours, the likely hood of getting these Panels approval in time to save a life are going to be very challenging and difficult, if not impossible she said.

    This applies to major operations such as receiving stents, bypass surgery, kidney operations, or treating for an aneurysm that would be normally covered under M edicare today. In other words, if you needed a life-saving operation, M edicare will not provide coverage anymore after 2013 if you are 75 or over. W hen in 2013? " W e haven't been given a specific date -- could be in January or July….but it's after the election."
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    Oh boy, I'll enjoy this one. I live nowhere from this.

    "I had one of the most troubling, most disturbing conversations ever with Dr. Suzanne Allen, head of emergency services at the Johnson City Medical Center in Tennessee. We were discussing the "future" and I asked her had she seen an affects of Obama Care in her work?

    "Oh, yes. We are seeing cutbacks throughout the services we provide. For example, we are now having to deal with patients who would normally receive dialysis can no longer be accepted. In the past, there was always automatic approval under M edicare for anyone who needed dialysis -- not anymore." So, what will be their outcome? "They will die soon without dialysis," she stated.

    What about other services? She indicated as of 2013 (after the election), no one over 75 will be given major medical procedures unless approved by locally administered Ethics Panels. These Panels will determine whether a patient receives medical treatment or not. W hile details on specific operating procedures and schedules, Dr. Allen points out that most life-threatening emergencies do not occur during normal hospital business hours, and if there are emergencies that depend to be resolve within minutes or just few hours, the likely hood of getting these Panels approval in time to save a life are going to be very challenging and difficult, if not impossible she said.

    This applies to major operations such as receiving stents, bypass surgery, kidney operations, or treating for an aneurysm that would be normally covered under M edicare today. In other words, if you needed a life-saving operation, M edicare will not provide coverage anymore after 2013 if you are 75 or over. W hen in 2013? " W e haven't been given a specific date -- could be in January or July….but it's after the election."

    I'm asking you to tie those statements, to a specific part of the bill? Are you just referencing a "conversation" you had, or copy pasted an exchange from what source? Again, specifically what part of the bill addresses those concerns expressed in the statements above?
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    I'm asking you to tie those statements, to a specific part of the bill? Are you just referencing a "conversation" you had, or copy pasted an exchange from what source? Again, specifically what part of the bill speaks addresses those concerns expressed in the statements above?
    http://www.fortwayne912.com/uploads/...rtWayne912.pdf

    Have a read at that.

    This was highlighted in the link.

     Under the new Obama health plan, your physician is required to enter all information for each patient, including all treatments, into a government electronic database. Doctors are then instructed on what the government deems to be cost effective and appropriate care. This is true for EVERYONE, even if you have private insurance. Doctors must comply with the regulations imposed by Obamacare or face government penalty. There will be no privacy of your medical concerns between you and your doctor, since the government will monitor all medical interactions.

     How will you be able to trust that your doctor's recommendations for your health treatments are the same as they would have been if your doctor were not compelled by law to provide only the treatments that the government deems "cost effective and appropriate?"

    "Obamacare allows the government complete access to all your private records, including banking records, and gives them authority to provide this information to third parties at the discretion of the HHS Secretary. This is allowed in the name of "helping you" by making sure you know of all the programs for which you might be eligible. The government claims they need access to all of your private information in order to "help determine your eligibility for additional programs."

     Obamacare provisions are largely exempted from Chapter 35 of Title 44 U.S. Code, which is privacy law. Why do they need exemption from privacy law? See Section 3021, 124 Stat. 394.

     Obamacare provisions are largely exempted from judicial review, and therefore, no legal recourse for disagreement. Why do they need to block Americans from bringing lawsuits on these provisions? See Section 3021, 124 Stat. 394.
    SEC. 3021. HEALTH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY ENROLLMENT STANDARDS AND PROTOCOLS.

    (a) In General- (1) STANDARDS AND PROTOCOLS- Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this title, the Secretary, in consultation with the HIT Policy Committee and the HIT Standards Committee, shall develop interoperable and secure standards and protocols that facilitate enrollment of individuals in Federal and State health and human services programs, as determined by the Secretary.

    (2) METHODS- The Secretary shall facilitate enrollment in such programs through methods determined appropriate by the Secretary, which shall include providing individuals and third parties authorized by such individuals and their designees notification of eligibility and verification of eligibility required under such programs.

    (b) Content- The standards and protocols for electronic enrollment in the Federal and State programs described in subsection (a) shall allow for the following: (1) Electronic matching against existing Federal and State data, including vital records, employment history, enrollment systems, tax records, and other data determined appropriate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpee View Post
    the last strong US president to call out secret societies and the NWO was JFK...

    so yes, it's a matter of time
    Perhaps, but it won't happen in your life time.
    I'd rather be driving my Chevelle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    http://www.fortwayne912.com/uploads/...rtWayne912.pdf

    Have a read at that.

    This was highlighted in the link.

     Under the new Obama health plan, your physician is required to enter all information for each patient, including all treatments, into a government electronic database. Doctors are then instructed on what the government deems to be cost effective and appropriate care. This is true for EVERYONE, even if you have private insurance. Doctors must comply with the regulations imposed by Obamacare or face government penalty. There will be no privacy of your medical concerns between you and your doctor, since the government will monitor all medical interactions.

     How will you be able to trust that your doctor's recommendations for your health treatments are the same as they would have been if your doctor were not compelled by law to provide only the treatments that the government deems "cost effective and appropriate?"

    "Obamacare allows the government complete access to all your private records, including banking records, and gives them authority to provide this information to third parties at the discretion of the HHS Secretary. This is allowed in the name of "helping you" by making sure you know of all the programs for which you might be eligible. The government claims they need access to all of your private information in order to "help determine your eligibility for additional programs."

     Obamacare provisions are largely exempted from Chapter 35 of Title 44 U.S. Code, which is privacy law. Why do they need exemption from privacy law? See Section 3021, 124 Stat. 394.

     Obamacare provisions are largely exempted from judicial review, and therefore, no legal recourse for disagreement. Why do they need to block Americans from bringing lawsuits on these provisions? See Section 3021, 124 Stat. 394.
    SEC. 3021. HEALTH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY ENROLLMENT STANDARDS AND PROTOCOLS.

    (a) In General- (1) STANDARDS AND PROTOCOLS- Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this title, the Secretary, in consultation with the HIT Policy Committee and the HIT Standards Committee, shall develop interoperable and secure standards and protocols that facilitate enrollment of individuals in Federal and State health and human services programs, as determined by the Secretary.

    (2) METHODS- The Secretary shall facilitate enrollment in such programs through methods determined appropriate by the Secretary, which shall include providing individuals and third parties authorized by such individuals and their designees notification of eligibility and verification of eligibility required under such programs.

    (b) Content- The standards and protocols for electronic enrollment in the Federal and State programs described in subsection (a) shall allow for the following: (1) Electronic matching against existing Federal and State data, including vital records, employment history, enrollment systems, tax records, and other data determined appropriate.

    Yeah...except this is the actual provision. You just posted a link highlighting conservative talking points.


    SEC. 10336. GAO STUDY AND REPORT ON MEDICARE BENEFICIARY ACCESS TO HIGH-QUALITY DIALYSIS SERVICES.
    Per the official summary, section 10336 “Directs the Comptroller General to study and report to Congress on the impact on Medicare beneficiary access to high-quality dialysis services of including specified oral drugs furnished to them for the treatment of end-stage renal disease in the related bundled prospective payment system.”
    It is well worth the time to peruse the complete detailed text of this PPACA section.
    (a) STUDY—(1) IN GENERAL—The Comptroller General of the United States shall conduct a study on the impact on Medicare beneficiary access to high-quality dialysis services of including specified oral drugs that are furnished to such beneficiaries for the treatment of end-stage renal disease in the bundled prospective payment system under section 1881(b)(14) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395rr(b)(14)) (pursuant to the proposed rule published by the Secretary of Health and Human Services in the Federal Register on September 29, 2009 (74 Fed. Reg. 49922 et seq.)). Such study shall include an analysis of—(A) the ability of providers of services and renal dialysis facilities to furnish specified oral drugs or arrange for the provision of such drugs; (B) the ability of providers of services and renal dialysis facilities to comply, if necessary, with applicable State laws (such as State pharmacy licensure requirements) in order to furnish specified oral drugs; (C) whether appropriate quality measures exist to safeguard care for Medicare beneficiaries being furnished specified oral drugs by providers of services and renal dialysis facilities; and (D) other areas determined appropriate by the Comptroller General.
    (2) SPECIFIED ORAL DRUG DEFINED.—For purposes of paragraph (1), the term ‘‘specified oral drug’’ means a drug or biological for which there is no injectable equivalent (or other non-oral form of administration). (b) REPORT.—Not later than 1 year after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Comptroller General of the United States shall submit to Congress a report containing the results of the study conducted under subsection (a), together with recommendations for such legislation and administrative action as the Comptroller General determines appropriate. [Emphasis Added]
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    Get all 1017 pages here: http://www.box.com/s/f0dec70adbdf1c172a8e

    There is also, at the bottom of page 59, verbiage for automatic electronic transfer of funds:

    21 ‘‘(C) enable electronic funds transfers, in
    22 order to allow automated reconciliation with the
    23 related health care payment and remittance ad
    24 vice;

    Class II Devices would be RFID chips.

    Page 58 & 59 says they can access your bank accounts and take your money.

    Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient's age.


    Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to
    attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years.


    Specifically stated that this bill will not apply to members of Congress. Members of Congress are already exempt from the Social Security system, and have a well-funded private plan that covers their retirement needs. If they were on our Social Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick 'fix' to make the plan financially sound for their future.

    Page 107 discusses how reconstructive surgery for abnormal tissue caused by trauma or deformities are approved and it won't cover cosmetic surgery for improved appearance of normal tissues.

    "The current so-called health care bill in the House of Representatives, on the other hand, is a health care rationing bill. The section on cancer hospitals sets that tone pretty well. Rationing and limiting care is the agenda. On page 425, the bill states that the government will mandate so-called advance-care planning, including instructing and consulting in regard to living wills and durable powers of attorney.

    On page 427, the federal government requires a program for orders for the end of life. On page 429, the government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order, and on page 430, the government will specify your level of treatment. The way the bill reads now, almost all decisions will be reviewed by the federal government. These are just a few of my concerns. In summary, I think I know what George Washington would have thought of the bill."

    The state is not required to cover dialysis treatments under Medicaid, but Williamson said cuts to the $4.5 million that the state spends on those services would be unrealistic because they would be tantamount to a death sentence for those patients. “I know exactly what happens if you don’t dialysize people,” Williamson said. “They’re dead in two weeks.”

    The point I am trying to make is Obamacare says that dilaysis is no longer covered by medicaid. Another thing I said is the government must "approve" of what treatments we can have. Doctors are being required to place every amount of information on patients in a system for the government to review and the Doctors can only do what the government allows, so our lives are officially in the governments hands.

    9 Subtitle C—National Medical
    10 Device Registry
    11 SEC. 2521. NATIONAL MEDICAL DEVICE REGISTRY.
    12 (a) REGISTRY.—
    13 (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 519 of the Federal
    14 Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 360i) is
    15 amended—
    16 (A) by redesignating subsection (g) as sub17
    section (h); and
    18 ( by inserting after subsection (f) the
    19 following:
    20 ‘‘National Medical Device Registry
    21 ‘‘(g)(1) The Secretary shall establish a national med22
    ical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the
    23 ‘registry’) to facilitate analysis of postmarket safety and
    24 outcomes data on each device that—
    25 ‘‘(A) is or has been used in or on a patient; and
    VerDate Nov 24 2008 01:43 Jul 15, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 01000 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:BILLSH3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
    1001
    •HR 3200 IH
    1 ‘‘( is—
    2 ‘‘(i) a class III device; or
    3 ‘‘(ii) a class II device that is implantable,
    4 life-supporting, or life-sustaining.
    5 ‘‘(2) In developing the registry, the Secretary shall,
    6 in consultation with the Commissioner of Food and Drugs,
    7 the Administrator of the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid
    8 Services, the head of the Office of the National Coordi9
    nator for Health Information Technology, and the Sec10
    retary of Veterans Affairs, determine the best methods
    11 for—
    12 ‘‘(A) including in the registry, in a manner con13
    sistent with subsection (f), appropriate information
    14 to identify each device described in paragraph (1) by
    15 type, model, and serial number or other unique iden16
    tifier;
    17 ‘‘( validating methods for analyzing patient
    18 safety and outcomes data from multiple sources and
    19 for linking such data with the information included
    20 in the registry as described in subparagraph (A), in21
    cluding, to the extent feasible, use of—
    22 ‘‘(i) data provided to the Secretary under
    23 other provisions of this chapter; and
    24 ‘‘(ii) information from public and private
    25 sources identified under paragraph (3);
    VerDate Nov 24 2008 01:43 Jul 15, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 01001 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:BILLSH3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
    1002
    •HR 3200 IH
    1 ‘‘(C) integrating the activities described in this
    2 subsection with—
    3 ‘‘(i) activities under paragraph (3) of sec4
    tion 505(k) (relating to active postmarket risk
    5 identification);
    6 ‘‘(ii) activities under paragraph (4) of sec7
    tion 505(k) (relating to advanced analysis of
    8 drug safety data); and
    9 ‘‘(iii) other postmarket device SURVEILLANCE
    10 activities of the Secretary authorized by this
    11 chapter;

    You have to read this very carefully, understand the broad range of applications and know how the government has manipulated legislative language in other laws passed. The third line from the bottom in my above cut/paste is of most concern. What this is open to is any form of surveillance the government...it's THEIR "health care" plan...decides to implement and it doesn't have to have a thing to do with health.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
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    You guys should take a look at Lou Dobbs on fox business channel @ 7pm eastern time. Im not saying watch fox, just his show. Its really good.
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    I have a bit of experience investigating socialized health care in 3 countries outside the US; Germany, Canada, and Australia. I had neck surgery in Germany, see the avatar for more details.

    One common theme I have found is that countries with socialized health care is that they are constantly losing many promising and/or established high quality health care professionals. Esp surgeons. It seems that doctors don't want to go to school for a minimum of 11 years, then do their residencies, then do whatever else you have to get a practice going, to work for government wages. It's not hard to conclude that this is a possibility for the US.

    I have not seen a good explanation for how we'll avoid this yet. Anybody got one?
    Training around a jacked up neck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by specmike
    I have a bit of experience investigating socialized health care in 3 countries outside the US; Germany, Canada, and Australia. I had neck surgery in Germany, see the avatar for more details.

    One common theme I have found is that countries with socialized health care is that they are constantly losing many promising and/or established high quality health care professionals. Esp surgeons. It seems that doctors don't want to go to school for a minimum of 11 years, then do their residencies, then do whatever else you have to get a practice going, to work for government wages. It's not hard to conclude that this is a possibility for the US.

    I have not seen a good explanation for how we'll avoid this yet. Anybody got one?
    supreme court shoots the whole thing down and people pull their heads out of their asses?
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpee View Post
    supreme court shoots the whole thing down and people pull their heads out of their asses?
    We can only hope but I am not holding my breath.

    Guess why this guy did not do my neck surgery?

    Dr. Lali Sekhon - Biography
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    The latest Rasmussen Reports statewide telephone survey of Likely Voters shows Romney with 47 percent of the vote to Obama’s 44 percent. Five percent prefer some other candidate, and 4 percent are undecided.


    I'd rather be driving my Chevelle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    The latest Rasmussen Reports statewide telephone survey of Likely Voters shows Romney with 47 percent of the vote to Obama’s 44 percent. Five percent prefer some other candidate, and 4 percent are undecided.


    Reality is the same person is getting 91% of all the votes.

    The election is already over as usual.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    The latest Rasmussen Reports statewide telephone survey of Likely Voters shows Romney with 47 percent of the vote to Obama’s 44 percent. Five percent prefer some other candidate, and 4 percent are undecided.


    Reality is the same person is getting 91% of all the votes.

    The election is already over as usual.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Reality is the same person is getting 91% of all the votes.

    The election is already over as usual.
    So you're saying Romney and Obama are the same?
    I'd rather be driving my Chevelle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    So you're saying Romney and Obama are the same?
    I'd say they are pretty much the same on what matters. Did Obama discontinue what Bush did? Did he overturn the Patriot Act? Did he stop the failed drug war? Did he end the wars immediately and dial back the gigantic defense budget? Did he reform taxes?

    Now, where will Mitt differ from Obama on the big stuff? He hasn't mentioned doing anything about the stuff I mentioned. Will he replace Obamacare? If he does it will likely be with something that is basically the exact same thing. Keep in mind his health care plan and Obama's were basically the exact same, and Obamacare was inspired by Mitt. Republicans and Democrats are the exact same thing. Both want to control your life, they just do it in slightly different ways. On the big stuff Romney hasn't even came out and said he will differ from Obama. Not that you could believe him anyways, he's a guy who's flip flopped more than trained seals. He will give lip service to a lot in the election like all politicians do, but when push comes to shove he won't change much. The entrenched big money interests control both parties and that's all that matters.

    I can see people being excited that Obama's on the way out, but I can't see them being excited that Romney's the one to replace him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    I'd say they are pretty much the same on what matters. Did Obama discontinue what Bush did? Did he overturn the Patriot Act? Did he stop the failed drug war? Did he end the wars immediately and dial back the gigantic defense budget? Did he reform taxes?

    Now, where will Mitt differ from Obama on the big stuff? He hasn't mentioned doing anything about the stuff I mentioned. Will he replace Obamacare? If he does it will likely be with something that is basically the exact same thing. Keep in mind his health care plan and Obama's were basically the exact same, and Obamacare was inspired by Mitt. Republicans and Democrats are the exact same thing. Both want to control your life, they just do it in slightly different ways. On the big stuff Romney hasn't even came out and said he will differ from Obama. Not that you could believe him anyways, he's a guy who's flip flopped more than trained seals. He will give lip service to a lot in the election like all politicians do, but when push comes to shove he won't change much. The entrenched big money interests control both parties and that's all that matters.

    I can see people being excited that Obama's on the way out, but I can't see them being excited that Romney's the one to replace him.
    Actions speak louder than words, but right now, Romney's words are vastly different than Obama's words.
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    So you're saying Romney and Obama are the same?
    Yes, Obama is George Bush's 3rd term, and either Obama or Romney will be Bush's 4th.

    There will be no difference other than what you see in regards to the acting on TV.

    Both are pro-war bloody murderers, pro-police state anti-constitutional globalist frauds. All the power and policy will all continue to be leveraged by global corporate powers, global banks and continue to be transferred to global governance.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Yes, Obama is George Bush's 3rd term, and either Obama or Romney will be Bush's 4th.

    There will be no difference other than what you see in regards to the acting on TV.

    Both are pro-war bloody murderers, pro-police state anti-constitutional globalist frauds. All the power and policy will all continue to be leveraged by global corporate powers, global banks and continue to be transferred to global governance.
    Wow Strong Pessimism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    Actions speak louder than words, but right now, Romney's words are vastly different than Obama's words.
    Lol at putting stock in a politicians words. You remember Obama talking about slashing the deficit? Ending the wars immediately? Shutting down Guantanamo? Etc. times a million. Romney has already proven you can't trust what he says. He did multiple things in his term as governor he said he wouldn't do, raised taxes, etc. Complete flip flops on abortion, minimum wage, mandates, stem cell research, the list goes on. All of our Republican presidents in the past 30 years have ran on smaller government and lowering the deficit. How many of them did this? (spoiler alert; 0.)

    Anyone can say anything and of course Romney is going to paint with words a different picture than Obama. It's popular on the right currently to oppose anything Obama says or does. It's just the way they are attacking him. When it comes down to specifics it's pretty sparse, and don't be shocked when Mitt doesn't do hardly anything he runs on. After all very few Presidents do.

    It's looking increasingly likely that Mitt will win, and I can't wait for the day Obama is out....but let's not kid ourselves and think Romney is going to ride in on one of his billion cars as a small government champion. He has never been small government in regards to his actions, and if you think he's changed just because he had to move so far to the right to secure the nomination you're one heck of a believer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Lol at putting stock in a politicians words.
    I did not put any stock in anyone's words. Which is why I said what I said about actions.

    But the fact right now is that their words, empty or not, are very opposed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    Wow Strong Pessimism.
    Yes, but can you say Im wrong?
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    I did not put any stock in anyone's words. Which is why I said what I said about actions.

    But the fact right now is that their words, empty or not, are very opposed.
    Of course they are though. You try to draw distinctions between you and your opponent....especially one as unpopular as the current President. But keep in mind Obama's words were much different than what we got, and Mitt's words in Mass. were much different than what they got. Like I said, on the real big stuff they will probably likely be the same and neither has proven through their actions (which are supposed to be so important) that they are really big into liberty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Of course they are though. You try to draw distinctions between you and your opponent....especially one as unpopular as the current President. But keep in mind Obama's words were much different than what we got, and Mitt's words in Mass. were much different than what they got. Like I said, on the real big stuff they will probably likely be the same and neither has proven through their actions (which are supposed to be so important) that they are really big into liberty.
    The biggest thing is the economy, and on that they couldn't be more different, both in word and actions past.
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    The biggest thing is the economy, and on that they couldn't be more different, both in word and actions past.
    Neither will fix the economy. The Federal Reserve just got a partial audit after years of fighting, and they revealed 16 trillion dollars in secret overseas transactions and bailouts (only between 2007 and 2010 was audited) and both these felons are going to be debating each other over pocket change rather than tackling the Federal Reserve problem, instead they will both support to hand over more power. Both these felons will be spending trillions on wars and continue to expand them. Both support police state policies against the American people.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Neither will fix the economy. The Federal Reserve just got a partial audit after years of fighting, and they revealed 16 trillion dollars in secret overseas transactions and bailouts (only between 2007 and 2010 was audited) and both these felons are going to be debating each other over pocket change rather than tackling the Federal Reserve problem, instead they will both support to hand over more power. Both these felons will be spending trillions on wars and continue to expand them. Both support police state policies against the American people.
    IMO, your personal background has tainted you to the point of biased objectivity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    IMO, your personal background has tainted you to the point of biased objectivity.
    How is that possible, 16 trillion dollars has nothing to do with our economy? Isnt that more money than our supposed total deficit?

    Trillions of dollars in wars also has nothing to do with our own economy? Its not like we are even getting any oil out of it that Cheney promised.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    IMO, your personal background has tainted you to the point of biased objectivity.
    Dont try to discredit me by dodging the issues and attacking my character. Thats weak.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    How is that possible, 16 trillion dollars has nothing to do with our economy? Isnt that more money than our supposed total deficit?

    Trillions of dollars in wars also has nothing to do with our own economy? Its not like we are even getting any oil out of it that Cheney promised.
    I'm referring more to your constant remarks of "police state" and calling Romney, who's never been our president, and Obama "felons", and "murderers".

    BTW, do you have a link for the federal reserve audit you referenced?
    I would be very interested to read that data.
    I'd rather be driving my Chevelle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Dont try to discredit me by dodging the issues and attacking my character. Thats weak.
    Relax friend, it has nothing to do with your character, only your situation.
    I'd rather be driving my Chevelle.
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    Let's see what happens when Romney gets in front of cameras and is asked to explain his ever changing positions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    I'm referring more to your constant remarks of "police state" and calling Romney, who's never been our president, and Obama "felons", and "murderers".

    BTW, do you have a link for the federal reserve audit you referenced?
    I would be very interested to read that data.
    Obama signed and Romney supports the NDAA act, National Defense Authorization Act which will cost $662 billion annually.
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...2hr1540enr.pdf

    and we also have recently signed national defense resources authorization act that allows the military to take your personal property, food, resources and even take you and put you to labor which basically makes every American suspectable to a new draft.
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr4310/text

    In regards to the audit,
    http://www.unelected.org/audit-of-th...ecret-bailouts
    http://www.businessinsider.com/feds-...of-life-2011-7
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1

    Obama signed and Romney supports the NDAA act, National Defense Authorization Act which will cost $662 billion annually.
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...2hr1540enr.pdf

    and we also have recently signed national defense resources authorization act that allows the military to take your personal property, food, resources and even take you and put you to labor which basically makes every American suspectable to a new draft.
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr4310/text

    In regards to the audit,
    http://www.unelected.org/audit-of-th...ecret-bailouts
    http://www.businessinsider.com/feds-...of-life-2011-7
    these are the scary ones.

    like I've said in other threads...we are the Weimar republic.

    wether it's "green inititatives", a "terror" threat, economic collapse, whatever - we are no longer free.
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpee View Post
    these are the scary ones.

    like I've said in other threads...we are the Weimar republic.

    wether it's "green inititatives", a "terror" threat, economic collapse, whatever - we are no longer free.
    As far as how you live your daily life, how are you less free?
    I'd rather be driving my Chevelle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerman2000 View Post
    As far as how you live your daily life, how are you less free?
    The problem here is that Im witnessing all of our freedoms slowly deteriorating. Its not going in a good direction.

    I can think of some examples off the top of my head quick.

    The military has the right to knock on the door and take me legally and make me serve thanks to the excecutive order Obama signed. Also they can take what I own.

    Im forced to buy health insurance soon. IRS is being expanded by 16,000 fully combat trained and armed agents just to enforce health care along with "Obama's" civilian military task force that was also funded in the bill.

    TSA at the airports, and its expansion to stadiums and roadside checkpoints is another one.

    Drones, legalized spying and wiretapping....this is not compatible in a free society.

    Look how in NYC they want to start making 16oz soda's and above illegal as well as popcorn. Just a "granny state" example
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1592894.html

    And we see the Governor of NY supports it, so lets see what happens. http://politicker.com/2012/06/govern...-only-do-good/
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
  

  
 

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