Kudo's New Jersey

[DAdams91982]

So New Jersey passed a balanced budget! NICE. A state actually bit the bullet and reduced their operating cost by 11B. But I am sure someone is going to cry about it in the end.

 

[AE14]

If you dont live or work in NJ you dont understand what that lunatic Christie has done to the state. I have worked in NJ for almost a decade, and things have hit an all time low since his inauguration. There is actual discussion of a recall

 

[reptone]

NJ is the most corrupt state in the country. Rest assured no matter HOW it looks on paper, every elected official in the state is making every penny he/she can at the expense of the residents and business owners. It`s so corrupt here even oprganised crime stays in NY. They can`t compete with the NJ politicians.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

If you dont live or work in NJ you dont understand what that lunatic Christie has done to the state. I have worked in NJ for almost a decade, and things have hit an all time low since his inauguration. There is actual discussion of a recall

Let me guess, you're a teacher. :lol:



What is lunacy is what they have done to that state in the last 20 years.


What I hear is him not being recalled, but people wanting him to run for President.

 

[DAdams91982]

Let me guess, you're a teacher. :lol:



What is lunacy is what they have done to that state in the last 20 years.


What I hear is him not being recalled, but people wanting him to run for President.

I believe he teaches Art History.

Christie still has a 51% approval rating in NJ, and the polls have yet to come out after signing the new budget. I understand the people AE listens to of course will only fill hatred for the other side.

 

[AE14]

NJ is the most corrupt state in the country. Rest assured no matter HOW it looks on paper, every elected official in the state is making every penny he/she can at the expense of the residents and business owners. It`s so corrupt here even oprganised crime stays in NY. They can`t compete with the NJ politicians.

absolutely correct. There is so much corruption it is mind numbing.

Let me guess, you're a teacher. :lol:



What is lunacy is what they have done to that state in the last 20 years.


What I hear is him not being recalled, but people wanting him to run for President.

they who? teachers? Please feel free to tell me what teachers have done to NJ? Kinda curious how the #1 target of the Christie administration could have hurt the state.

I believe he teaches Art History.

Christie still has a 51% approval rating in NJ, and the polls have yet to come out after signing the new budget. I understand the people AE listens to of course will only fill hatred for the other side.

DA, to be honest, I agree with him on the NJEA, it is entirely corrupt. I have no issue there...however it is the cuts that are costing young teachers their jobs that I have a problem with. It is amazing that Christie can hire his "tech" people for almost 6 figure salaries and their primary responsibility is answer emails, facebook posts and twitter. Good use of state money

 

[DAdams91982]

absolutely correct. There is so much corruption it is mind numbing.

they who? teachers? Please feel free to tell me what teachers have done to NJ? Kinda curious how the #1 target of the Christie administration could have hurt the state.



DA, to be honest, I agree with him on the NJEA, it is entirely corrupt. I have no issue there...however it is the cuts that are costing young teachers their jobs that I have a problem with. It is amazing that Christie can hire his "tech" people for almost 6 figure salaries and their primary responsibility is answer emails, facebook posts and twitter. Good use of state money

Oh, I am not here to defend that guy. But his recent budget being balanced is AMAZING... i dont care who is getting paid. One of the problems with todays politics is that it is the generation of emotional politics... yes it sucks that some lose jobs... but he made tough decisions that others were to panty waist to make. When you cut 11B from a budget, people are going to cry, until their economy is outperforming others, a one of the only states not in the red.

I have been researching about this recall, but I do not see it. I only see the obvious divide Libs = Cry they didnt get their way, Pubs = Rejoice that he is walking on water... we will have to wait out the changes to see any difference makers.

 

[DAdams91982]

It is amazing that Christie can hire his "tech" people for almost 6 figure salaries and their primary responsibility is answer emails, facebook posts and twitter. Good use of state money

Is there real proof of this? I find it hard to swallow.

 

[AE14]

Is there real proof of this? I find it hard to swallow.

there was an article going back a few months at nj.com discussing this.

I personally applaud the budget, but the people who get hurt the worst are the kids who are losing really beneficial programs

 

[Dwight Schrute]

they who? teachers? Please feel free to tell me what teachers have done to NJ? Kinda curious how the #1 target of the Christie administration could have hurt the state.

Actually the unions and the legislature in the last 20 years. They run that state into the ground with their spending and corruption. Your property taxes are ridiculous...the amount of benefits and salaries state employees get compared to the private sector is completely out of whack.....

 

[Dwight Schrute]

DA, to be honest, I agree with him on the NJEA, it is entirely corrupt. I have no issue there...however it is the cuts that are costing young teachers their jobs that I have a problem with. It is amazing that Christie can hire his "tech" people for almost 6 figure salaries and their primary responsibility is answer emails, facebook posts and twitter. Good use of state money

As opposed to Corzine? If that's all Christie did then its a drop in the ocean of corruption Corzine was involved in.

His cuts from what I've seen aren't even that drastic compared ot many states.


YouTube- Chris Christie Budget Message New Jersey Legislature (CLIP 2)


Guy is blunt...and its refreshing.

 

[AE14]

Actually the unions and the legislature in the last 20 years. They run that state into the ground with their spending and corruption. Your property taxes are ridiculous...the amount of benefits and salaries state employees get compared to the private sector is completely out of whack.....

I agree about many things. The union is a joke and quite corrupt,as are most unions. However,the salary and benefitd issue is quite dependent upon where in NJ you are. I don't make enough to live in my district.

As opposed to Corzine? If that's all Christie did then its a drop in the ocean of corruption Corzine was involved in.

His cuts from what I've seen aren't even that drastic compared ot many states.


YouTube- Chris Christie Budget Message New Jersey Legislature (CLIP 2)[/url

Guy is blunt...and its refreshing.

this goes further back than corslime. Whitman anyone?

 

[badjuju]

I live in NJ, unfortunately, and Christie is 'balancing' the budget in the laziest way possible. He simply made huge cuts into general areas like education without telling the school districts how to handle the cuts or considering the ramifications.

Did he really think that school boards are going to fire themselves when trying to balance their annual budgets? No, of course not, instead we've got schools having to cut sports, art, and music programs.

NJ is on the way to having a balanced budget and an underdeveloped work force and society in general thanks to these cuts. The guy has taken an ax to a situation that requires a scalpel and some thinking.

 

[DAdams91982]

I live in NJ, unfortunately, and Christie is 'balancing' the budget in the laziest way possible. He simply made huge cuts into general areas like education without telling the school districts how to handle the cuts or considering the ramifications.

Did he really think that school boards are going to fire themselves when trying to balance their annual budgets? No, of course not, instead we've got schools having to cut sports, art, and music programs.

NJ is on the way to having a balanced budget and an underdeveloped work force and society in general thanks to these cuts. The guy has taken an ax to a situation that requires a scalpel and some thinking.

You point out the problem.. no one wants to go through the pain, and pass the pain on to others. Education is overblown and over expensive today, as the result of the legal racket of teacher unions and crap like that. Education has done this to itself, state sponsored education comes in at an average price of 12-15K a year per child at the expense of tax payers, whereas a private institution cost average of 6-8K per child with smaller classrooms and better education. I feel no remorse for state sponsored education.

 

[AE14]

You point out the problem.. no one wants to go through the pain, and pass the pain on to others. Education is overblown and over expensive today, as the result of the legal racket of teacher unions and crap like that. Education has done this to itself, state sponsored education comes in at an average price of 12-15K a year per child at the expense of tax payers, whereas a private institution cost average of 6-8K per child with smaller classrooms and better education. I feel no remorse for state sponsored education.

You make some very gross generalities. Based on your points families would all want to send their kids to private schools since it would be less expensive and a better education. What you seem to not understand is that a generality like that is false. In some instances they can be better in terms of education, however, that is not always the case.

Dealing with the issue of NJ, having been there almost a decade, the corruption is very old, however Christie's "blame the teachers" truly hurts the youth. What he also seems to not care about is the result this has on property values. If you lower school performance, you kill the desire for many to move to a particular city, thus killing the property values. However, lets just keep up slicing education, Einstein didnt need any enrichment programs

 

[DAdams91982]

You make some very gross generalities. Based on your points families would all want to send their kids to private schools since it would be less expensive and a better education. What you seem to not understand is that a generality like that is false. In some instances they can be better in terms of education, however, that is not always the case.

Dealing with the issue of NJ, having been there almost a decade, the corruption is very old, however Christie's "blame the teachers" truly hurts the youth. What he also seems to not care about is the result this has on property values. If you lower school performance, you kill the desire for many to move to a particular city, thus killing the property values. However, lets just keep up slicing education, Einstein didnt need any enrichment programs

It is less expensive, and a better education, problem is that every tax payer, all 50% of the total tax paying population, pays for kids to go to school. So that year of education ends up costing more, for less, because there is no threat of reprise in the state educational system. It has been one of the most corrupt institutions in the US since its inception.

Again, so who get's to feel the pain? Obviously more than just Christie seen bloat in the educational system, your other state government passed this as well, including your very blue state government, Christie is just a small fish in that pond.

 

[AE14]

It is less expensive, and a better education, problem is that every tax payer, all 50% of the total tax paying population, pays for kids to go to school. So that year of education ends up costing more, for less, because there is no threat of reprise in the state educational system. It has been one of the most corrupt institutions in the US since its inception.

Again, so who get's to feel the pain? Obviously more than just Christie seen bloat in the educational system, your other state government passed this as well, including your very blue state government, Christie is just a small fish in that pond.

I would love to see some legitimate statistics to back up your claim. Please feel free to also take into account the following

• Standardized testing
• Percentage going to a 4 year school
• Percentage going to a 2 year school
• AP enrollment, tests taken and scores
• Percentage SPED population
• Percentage that did not drop out of post graduate education

The problem is, that you have not taken all variables into account. So one the surface it looks better.

I agree that the budget needs help (in 50 states) however Christie is attacking one source, which again hurts the average tax payer, and sadly they are blind to it.

By the way....it is the SPED (special ed.) numbers that no one takes into account when looking at a private school. Care to know why? Very few enroll there :thumbsup:

 

[DAdams91982]

I would love to see some legitimate statistics to back up your claim. Please feel free to also take into account the following

• Standardized testing
• Percentage going to a 4 year school
• Percentage going to a 2 year school
• AP enrollment, tests taken and scores
• Percentage SPED population
• Percentage that did not drop out of post graduate education

The problem is, that you have not taken all variables into account. So one the surface it looks better.

I agree that the budget needs help (in 50 states) however Christie is attacking one source, which again hurts the average tax payer, and sadly they are blind to it.

By the way....it is the SPED (special ed.) numbers that no one takes into account when looking at a private school. Care to know why? Very few enroll there :thumbsup:

All due respect, I am not going to do your bitch work. You wish to refute my claims, due so. But do not expect me to go fetch statistics that you wish to see.

Now my information i will gladly show.
According to the NCES the total Private student population is 5,072,451 and the total full time teachers is 456,266, making that an astounding 11 students per teacher.

According to the NCES the graduation rate of private schooling K-12 is 98% in 2007 (Latest date I could find) , and according to NCHEMS the graduation rate for public schools is 68%.

Andrew Coulson did the cost break down of the public schools in DC, and showed it cost 28.5K per pupil to the tax payer. Researching private schools in the area showed less than half that, and by half I mean 7K.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/wp-content/uploads/Coulson-DC-Ed-Spending-FY2009-Budget.xls

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009313.pdf

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/projections/projections2017/tables/table_01.asp?referrer=list

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2010/2010309.pdf

 

[AE14]

All due respect, I am not going to do your bitch work. You wish to refute my claims, due so. But do not expect me to go fetch statistics that you wish to see.

Fair enough. However, my point is the same. There is little to back you up

Now my information i will gladly show.
According to the NCES the total Private student population is 5,072,451 and the total full time teachers is 456,266, making that an astounding 11 students per teacher.

I never disputed this issue. I wishI had 11 per class. However, with all the cuts I am now at over 30 per class. Thanks Governor

According to the NCES the graduation rate of private schooling K-12 is 98% in 2007 (Latest date I could find) , and according to NCHEMS the graduation rate for public schools is 68%.

Which public schools, and where were they located?

Andrew Coulson did the cost break down of the public schools in DC, and showed it cost 28.5K per pupil to the tax payer. Researching private schools in the area showed less than half that.

Lets look at this from the perspective of common sense. If it was so much cheaper nationally, why wouldnt everyone send their kids for this "better education"? I do not dispute that there has been bloat in education, much of which is as a result of the union, however, to claim that private school is a better education is not looking at the issue in its entirety as previously stated in my post above.

 

[DAdams91982]

Fair enough. However, my point is the same. There is little to back you up

I just gave you plenty.

I never disputed this issue. I wishI had 11 per class. However, with all the cuts I am now at over 30 per class. Thanks Governor

If the public school system could keep their own house clean, this wouldnt be a problem.... thank you bureaucrats and legal racketeering.

Which public schools, and where were they located?

National average, as were the private statistics.

Lets look at this from the perspective of common sense. If it was so much cheaper nationally, why wouldnt everyone send their kids for this "better education"? I do not dispute that there has been bloat in education, much of which is as a result of the union, however, to claim that private school is a better education is not looking at the issue in its entirety as previously stated in my post above.

This is the big lingering question. Why pay for school twice? You already are forced to pay for the public education for yourself and everyone else, so why not use it? When DC was giving vouchers for private education, the private institution grew tremendously, because bar none, it is just better. SAT scores are better, ACT scores are better, Graduation rate is better, Post secondary graduation rate is better, people that even attend post secondary is well higher, drop out rate is lower.

Here is the kicker, stats show that less then 50% of working age adults actually pay taxes. So glad that 50% of hard working Americans can pay for 100% of the populations children to go to school.

 

[youngandfree]

I just gave you plenty.


If the public school system could keep their own house clean, this wouldnt be a problem.... thank you bureaucrats and legal racketeering.


National average, as were the private statistics.




This is the big lingering question. Why pay for school twice? You already are forced to pay for the public education for yourself and everyone else, so why not use it? When DC was giving vouchers for private education, the private institution grew tremendously, because bar none, it is just better. SAT scores are better, ACT scores are better, Graduation rate is better, Post secondary graduation rate is better, people that even attend post secondary is well higher, drop out rate is lower.

Here is the kicker, stats show that less then 50% of working age adults actually pay taxes. So glad that 50% of hard working Americans can pay for 100% of the populations children to go to school.

Bingo. The tax payers are already paying for education. When stretched thin, they aren't going to pay out of pocket again for private school. I think this is why the school voucher program is necessary. If not school vouchers, the taxpayers that want private school get a tax reduction in order to pay for private schooling.

And don't forget about Obama flushing the voucher program in DC while his kids go to Sidwell Friends. Now the friends of the Obama kids that were on the voucher program getting a good education get to go back to public school.

 

[AE14]

I just gave you plenty.


If the public school system could keep their own house clean, this wouldnt be a problem.... thank you bureaucrats and legal racketeering.


National average, as were the private statistics.




This is the big lingering question. Why pay for school twice? You already are forced to pay for the public education for yourself and everyone else, so why not use it? When DC was giving vouchers for private education, the private institution grew tremendously, because bar none, it is just better. SAT scores are better, ACT scores are better, Graduation rate is better, Post secondary graduation rate is better, people that even attend post secondary is well higher, drop out rate is lower.

Here is the kicker, stats show that less then 50% of working age adults actually pay taxes. So glad that 50% of hard working Americans can pay for 100% of the populations children to go to school.

Again there is something missing in your analysis. Why are the statistics skewed away from public ed?

I will say it again.....Special Education

There is a sad liberal movement afoot that all Spec Ed. kids and all kids in general, regardless of their grades belong in all classes regardless of requirements. Thus bringing down quite a few scores

 

[DAdams91982]

Again there is something missing in your analysis. Why are the statistics skewed away from public ed?

I will say it again.....Special Education

There is a sad liberal movement afoot that all Spec Ed. kids and all kids in general, regardless of their grades belong in all classes regardless of requirements. Thus bringing down quite a few scores

Actually if you read the NCES statistics, they take Spec. Ed into account changing the gap. Plus, even so, they would not account for such a large gap... 33% of kids in school are not Special Ed.

 

[AE14]

It makes more of a difference than I think you realize.

Example:

a few days ago I received the score report from ETS for my students AP exams. No real surprises (nothing major). However, the kids I expected to door poorly did, most of which were classified or did not meet the requirements to be in the class in the first place. Fruthermore, as I am sure you are aware, one low score kills an average. So out of a scale of scores between 1-5, one student scoring a 1 lowers the average tremendously. Hope that clarifies my point, since much of the rankings and statistics are based on AP (specifically places like Newsweek etc...)

 

[DAdams91982]

It makes more of a difference than I think you realize.

Example:

a few days ago I received the score report from ETS for my students AP exams. No real surprises (nothing major). However, the kids I expected to door poorly did, most of which were classified or did not meet the requirements to be in the class in the first place. Fruthermore, as I am sure you are aware, one low score kills an average. So out of a scale of scores between 1-5, one student scoring a 1 lowers the average tremendously. Hope that clarifies my point, since much of the rankings and statistics are based on AP (specifically places like Newsweek etc...)

The graduation rate if it was even remotely comparable would not have a 33% difference. And again, NCES takes special ed into account. Then we have SAT/ACT scores.. the ones that choose to take it from both sides . This little piece comes from the the Government backing Time magazine.

Isn't that just because richer private-school kids can afford to be coached more before the SAT? No — remember that this study carefully controlled for socioeconomic status. Rather, it appears private schools do more to develop students' critical-thinking abilities — not just the rote memorization required to do well on achievement tests.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1670063,00.html

In fact, while public scores dip from 983 in 2007 to 980 in 2008, scores at private schools in South Carolina actually shot up from 1023 to 1042. The average was 1037 at independent private schools and 1048 at religious private schools. Not only are private school students of all types scoring better then public school students, they are consistently improving each year. Both the total number of students enrolled in private schools, as well as the number of those students taking the ACT and SAT tests, are rising.

 

[AE14]

Using SAT and ACT as a guide is misleading and in fact many universities are now starting to look away from these tests, or at least not giving the same weight to the scores.

DA, you and I are not going to convince each other of anything at this point. All I can tell you is that nearly a decade of experience both in the classroom and in administrative meetings has shown me some of the flaws in your arguments.

With that said, I will leave now and just say that Christie is short sighted and is hurting the state more than helping it.

Good day

 

[DAdams91982]

Using SAT and ACT as a guide is misleading and in fact many universities are now starting to look away from these tests, or at least not giving the same weight to the scores.

DA, you and I are not going to convince each other of anything at this point. All I can tell you is that nearly a decade of experience both in the classroom and in administrative meetings has shown me some of the flaws in your arguments.

With that said, I will leave now and just say that Christie is short sighted and is hurting the state more than helping it.

Good day

Honestly, I do not care to convince you of anything in the long run. I brought my case, and backed it up firmly with evidence across the board. If the the common barometers used in society today to judge education are useless, then we are at a cross roads on what to do all together, and as we have seen across the US, throwing money at public schools is doing nothing for the youth. Now we have nothing but an over bloated public system that is churning out adults with falling grades, lower testing scores, and lower College attendance.

I just think it is funny that you disregard every fact I have presented because I am not on the inside, which may be the reason you think that way, kind of blinded by the system.

I have proved that Private institutions do better at educating our children than public institutions at less than half the cost.. some as little as 25% of the cost in some urban areas.

As you said though, we will not agree. And I do know it is an uphill battle debating with someone who is part of the system I question. Ron Paul did a great speech about the Public schools failing and advocated for a state level voucher program and education tax credits.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Christie for President

 

[youngandfree]

Christie for President

Word!

 

[AE14]

Christie for President

:rofl:

Hey, maybe we could fall further behind the other nations of the world with more education cuts on a national level.

 

[youngandfree]

Well most have a lower debt to gdp ratio so that's actually a good thing. We have the second highest ratio in the world and that has to change. When Christie brings the wealth back to New Jersey, then you might see things change. More wealth does create more tax revenue which will allow them to add back to education.

 

[AE14]

Well most have a lower debt to gdp ratio so that's actually a good thing. We have the second highest ratio in the world and that has to change. When Christie brings the wealth back to New Jersey, then you might see things change. More wealth does create more tax revenue which will allow them to add back to education.

So in essence, until this happens, watch NJ property values and schools suffer. Thats not sound leadership IMO

 

[youngandfree]

So in essence, until this happens, watch NJ property values and schools suffer. Thats not sound leadership IMO

Well that would imply that they haven't suffered yet in the last decade.

 

[DAdams91982]

:rofl:

Hey, maybe we could fall further behind the other nations of the world with more education cuts on a national level.

Because, as I have proved, throwing money at the problem has worked so well so far right?

 

[Vtaper]

The tax payers are already paying for education. When stretched thin, they aren't going to pay out of pocket again for private school. I think this is why the school voucher program is necessary. If not school vouchers, the taxpayers that want private school get a tax reduction in order to pay for private schooling.

And don't forget about Obama flushing the voucher program in DC while his kids go to Sidwell Friends. Now the friends of the Obama kids that were on the voucher program getting a good education get to go back to public school.

You nailed it here. And why was this point ignored by the guy who works as a teacher?

You make some very gross generalities. Based on your points families would all want to send their kids to private schools since it would be less expensive and a better education.

Lets look at this from the perspective of common sense. If it was so much cheaper nationally, why wouldnt everyone send their kids for this "better education"?

Vouchers would make this possible. Would you support that?

 

[Leggo my Ego]

Christie for President

Hell yeah!!!!!

 

[AE14]

didnt mean to rehash this, but just curious if anyone has heard the other issue from the Christie administration?

It seems that NJ will now not be able to make a claim toward their "Race to the Top" money as the Christie admin screwed the pooch on the forms. I am sure that this is the teachers fault, as Christie can blame them for not teaching him how to read and write properly

 

[Dwight Schrute]

didnt mean to rehash this, but just curious if anyone has heard the other issue from the Christie administration?

It seems that NJ will now not be able to make a claim toward their "Race to the Top" money as the Christie admin screwed the pooch on the forms. I am sure that this is the teachers fault, as Christie can blame them for not teaching him how to read and write properly

So now you're happy that you aren't getting the funds because of a clerical error in a 1000 page application? Boy you teachers really hate him don't you...


"A new Quinnipiac University Poll on Thursday found 51 percent of voters approve of Mr. Christie’s job performance, while 36 percent of voters say they disapprove.

The latest poll marks a significant change in momentum for the Republican governor. The last poll, issued in June, had Mr. Christie with a 44 percent approval rating. Forty-four percent of voters in the that poll disapprove of Mr. Christie’s performance as governor. "


That must sting :lol:

 

[AE14]

So now you're happy that you aren't getting the funds because of a clerical error in a 1000 page application? Boy you teachers really hate him don't you...


"A new Quinnipiac University Poll on Thursday found 51 percent of voters approve of Mr. Christie’s job performance, while 36 percent of voters say they disapprove.

The latest poll marks a significant change in momentum for the Republican governor. The last poll, issued in June, had Mr. Christie with a 44 percent approval rating. Forty-four percent of voters in the that poll disapprove of Mr. Christie’s performance as governor. "


That must sting :lol:

quite the contrary. not happy at all. However, I was acknowledging the irony of it all.