Uganda, a stand against homosexuality? Death penalty introduced.

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    What exactly is it corrupted WITH?
    Apple juice.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    You cannot "corrupt" something that, definition, is simply what it is - a myriad of gene variations formed from a simple pool of DNA (mitochondrial and chromosomal). What exactly is it corrupted WITH?
    I don't like it. I don't have to like it. I'm not going to like it. That's all there is to it.
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  3. Homosexuality has not been regarded as a "mental disease/disorder" for thousands of years; in fact, the emergence of the concept of disease as such, as well as the processes of hospitalization, proliferation of medical knowledge, sanitation, hygiene and so forth that both precipitated and contributed to the medicalized notion of disease are relatively new developments. Now, one could hypothetically posit that homosexuality has historically been regarded as abnormal, however, the archaeological records bears that to be untrue as well: it is only within the repressive sexuality of the Abrahamic religions that sexuality has been demonized, pathologies, and ascribed "Other" status. There is much evidence to the contrary that, in fact, homosexuality had largely been accepted throughout history, in various cultures, across various social strata, etc.

    Whether or not these instances of historical instantiation make it "natural," per se, is highly debatable - and a topic, as a matter of fact, that has been partaken in on this very forum, and which I contributed a significant portion to. Nevertheless, and this contention notwithstanding, what is indisputable is that the demonization of homosexuality is not normal, in the capacity and context of normative behavior, in and throughout history. There have been epochés where it was largely regarded as acceptable and mundane behavior; epochés where it was treated as ceremonial behavior in the context of rights of passage, and; yes, epochés where it was demonized. This fact bears one thing to be true: appealing to homosexuality as "against" the "natural way" is simply fallacious reasoning, as the "natural way" alters as per the dynamic conventions of the time.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Why is there an assumption that homosexuality is a basic human right, yet polygamy isn't?

    People have a basic human right to live and do with their lives as they please so long as it doesn't interfere with anothers right to do so. So both are basic human rights.

    Polygamy gets a bad rap due to cases of young boys being shunned from polygamist culture, and they have a tendancy to marry pre-teen to early teen girls to much older men. No person of that age legally or morally can enter a contract such as marriage. Some have no issue with this, and look to the bible or other religious texts to justify pedophilia.

    As far as adults practicing it - fine, there adults. Plus, the government has nothing to gain from it.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    in the end, any physical activity you are involved in is a choice, whether it be homosexuality, bowling, walking into a church, mugging old ladies, kicking a dog.

    And i'm against any hate crime laws, as i've never seen a "love crime".
    I would still argue it is not a choice. Gays can't help that they are wired to be homosexual. I can't help that I am drawn to women and have only fell in love with them. I am wired that way as are most of us. But some are not. A lot of gay men and women want to have children. If it was a choice, being gay would just be a phase that would pass once someone decided to have children. But it doesn't. The only choice we have is to accept who we really are, and thus choose to act on either our heterosexual or homosexual feelings.

    Your hate crime logic is a bit off. With this reasoning, what's wrong with murder? I've never seen a crime for bringing a life into the world.

    Hate crime laws simply recognize that it takes a crime to a more sadistic level to criminalize someone simply for who they are. I can understand how a woman murders her abusive husband, or how someone might kill their spouses mistress in a fit of rage. I can't understand how someone would kill someone for simply being white, muslim, gay, etc.

    I would be just as concerned if it was the other way around and gangs of gay men were running around murdering straight men for being straight. That would be totally fukced up on a different level if its hate based.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    I honestly never had a problem with Gay's doing civil unions or whatever it is. But marriage is something that did not come from the secular world, and is trampled on enough let alone letting something that is against the very laws that created our view of marriage step on it.
    The word marriage and civil union is interchangeable to and means the same thing to the state. The state has no business meddling in the religious/moral aspect of marriage. To them, marriage is simply a social contract for tax purposes, etc. That is why a priest can marry you in the church but you still need to apply for a license from the state. And atheists can still get married at the courthouse without the blessing of the church.

  7. note to zeroV . . do not travel to Uganda

  8. I did a spit take.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
    Apple juice.
    Wrong. The answer is; "sinners".


    lmao.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by TheLastRonin View Post
    x2..
    Well, God created us free men free of choice. We made a bad decision in the beginning and thats why we are here.


    I can't find the original post containing THIS gem.

    Please, do tell how "we" (considering I am 39 years old and have made around 33-34 years' worth of "choices") made a bad decision in the beginning.

    Or...are you asserting that we have and will be judged/punished for the actions of others from a "just" being?
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Lacradocious View Post
    I would still argue it is not a choice. Gays can't help that they are wired to be homosexual. I can't help that I am drawn to women and have only fell in love with them. I am wired that way as are most of us. But some are not. A lot of gay men and women want to have children. If it was a choice, being gay would just be a phase that would pass once someone decided to have children. But it doesn't. The only choice we have is to accept who we really are, and thus choose to act on either our heterosexual or homosexual feelings.

    Your hate crime logic is a bit off. With this reasoning, what's wrong with murder? I've never seen a crime for bringing a life into the world.

    Hate crime laws simply recognize that it takes a crime to a more sadistic level to criminalize someone simply for who they are. I can understand how a woman murders her abusive husband, or how someone might kill their spouses mistress in a fit of rage. I can't understand how someone would kill someone for simply being white, muslim, gay, etc.

    I would be just as concerned if it was the other way around and gangs of gay men were running around murdering straight men for being straight. That would be totally fukced up on a different level if its hate based.
    You are totally backwards with both of these. I said nothing about emotion or desire, I spoke of action. You can fall in love with a second person while you are married and there is nothing wrong with that, taking action on it is wrong as taking action IS in your control.

    Similarly you missed the boat entirely on hate crimes. My point was that beating up a person because he is gay is no worse than beating up a person because he stepped on your toe. Again you are beating him up because of what he is, a clumsy fool. The start of violent crimes is always about what the other person is, whether its race, religion, personality, etc. Again, what else would be your cause of violence against someone? If you start a fight because someone is hitting on your girlfriend, it is you starting a fight because of "who he is" - a crass classless fool. And trying to say that race, religion, sexual preference is "out of a persons control", well honestly you can say the same for someone who is clumsy and unapologetic as thats the way they were raised.

    No violent crime is a "love" crime, they all have elements of hate. By establishing a higher penalty for the EXACT SAME action against a specific group you are in effect saying its not as big of a deal to perform that same action against people of any other group that doesn't get protected. Again, your feelings may or may not be entirely in your control, but your actions are. I'm all for stronger penalties for violent crimes, I'm a fan of faster death sentences as well to keep prison costs down. Rape, child molestation and first or second degree murder all deserve rapid death sentences.

  12. Still waiting for the "Uganda: Gays miss Idi Amin" article.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    You are totally backwards with both of these. I said nothing about emotion or desire, I spoke of action. You can fall in love with a second person while you are married and there is nothing wrong with that, taking action on it is wrong as taking action IS in your control.

    Similarly you missed the boat entirely on hate crimes. My point was that beating up a person because he is gay is no worse than beating up a person because he stepped on your toe. Again you are beating him up because of what he is, a clumsy fool. The start of violent crimes is always about what the other person is, whether its race, religion, personality, etc. Again, what else would be your cause of violence against someone? If you start a fight because someone is hitting on your girlfriend, it is you starting a fight because of "who he is" - a crass classless fool. And trying to say that race, religion, sexual preference is "out of a persons control", well honestly you can say the same for someone who is clumsy and unapologetic as thats the way they were raised.

    No violent crime is a "love" crime, they all have elements of hate. By establishing a higher penalty for the EXACT SAME action against a specific group you are in effect saying its not as big of a deal to perform that same action against people of any other group that doesn't get protected. Again, your feelings may or may not be entirely in your control, but your actions are. I'm all for stronger penalties for violent crimes, I'm a fan of faster death sentences as well to keep prison costs down. Rape, child molestation and first or second degree murder all deserve rapid death sentences.
    I do believe we are all accountable for our actions because we can control what we do and how we choose to react to things. I simply don't think a gay person can be blamed for choosing to act on it. If a man is gay he has no business acting straight and marrying a woman and vise versa. It just isn't right in my opinion.

    I agree with you as far as the death penalty and making it more swift. I still disagree regarding hate crimes because the legislation isn't intended to give preferential treatment to any particular group. It is a shame that our legal system is so weak and inconsistent that we have to have such legislation to ensure the worst offenses get the highest level of punishment.

    The day after 9/11, a guy went into a gas station here in Phoenix and murdered the owner for being a Muslim (he was actually a Seikgh from India). He was murdered for being a "Muslim", not for money or because he personaly wronged him. I simply feel that it is an agregious act that should bring the strongest punishment with no option for leniency. In a similar sense, I feel that crimes against children, public servants, and pregnant women should bring the strongest punishment without a chance for leniency.

    But I understand your logic. If our courts were consistent and didn't lean so far to the left, there would be no need to differentiate which form of murder is worse, or which one deserves a harsher penalty. The way it is now, advocacy groups have to petition to change the laws to ensure firm justice is applied. Police and other public servants, children, and victims of hate crimes wouldn't need to petition for these things if the courts simply did their jobs and we actually started executing murderers regardless.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    you really believe that AIDs is a homosexual disease soley at this point in time?
    Homo's and iv drug users.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by dave12 View Post
    Homo's and iv drug users.
    It depends on geography. That trend is only prevalent in the so-called, "Industrialized West," whereas heterosexuals predominate both confirmed HIV and AIDS cases in the MENA states, the African continent, the South Pacific and Eastern Europe-Asia.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Lacradocious View Post
    I do believe we are all accountable for our actions because we can control what we do and how we choose to react to things. I simply don't think a gay person can be blamed for choosing to act on it. If a man is gay he has no business acting straight and marrying a woman and vise versa. It just isn't right in my opinion.
    I suppose that for that it partially goes back to the definition of whether homosexuality is a nature or nurture issue - whether its genetic (which is basically impossible due to the non-reproductive nature) or whether its the way a person is raised and their experiences in their childhood. Honestly its no different than any other social deviation in that respect. It just happens that its one that is generally harmless to others and is disproportionately glamorized by the media. And comically female homosexuality is generally supported by most males

    But if a man has no desire to be with a woman then true he shouldn't be with a woman, however if his country/social group strongly disallows homosexual physical contact then he can choose to be celibate instead of following through on his desires. Then you get into of course the question of whether "satisfying your sexual desires" is a human right or not, and i'd have to go with not on that one. Again specifically we have things like anti-polygamy laws, age of consent laws, etc that outlaw other forms of satisfying sexual desires so it is not considered an inalienable right. Heck strip bars are still illegal in many states here in the US.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    It depends on geography. That trend is only prevalent in the so-called, "Industrialized West," whereas heterosexuals predominate both confirmed HIV and AIDS cases in the MENA states, the African continent, the South Pacific and Eastern Europe-Asia.
    How does a heterosexual, monogamous, non iv drug using male catch himself the G.R.I.D.S. catch himself exactly? I know wimminz can catch the stuff relatively easily, boys on the other hand I was under the impression it took some doing.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    But if a man has no desire to be with a woman then true he shouldn't be with a woman, however if his country/social group strongly disallows homosexual physical contact then he can choose to be celibate instead of following through on his desires.
    What in the hell? So the said person should live their life within the borders of what the country or society allows, or deems to be appropriate? May I ask what your profession is? You seem to refute a lot of science and dismiss many claims.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
    What in the hell? So the said person should live their life within the borders of what the country or society allows, or deems to be appropriate? May I ask what your profession is? You seem to refute a lot of science and dismiss many claims.
    Yep, thats it exactly. That is how civilization actually works - the individuals agreeing to act as per the morals and expectations of their local peer group. Refusing to do so means rejecting the civilization of your local group. If you live in a society that believes in ritual animal sacrifice and you refuse to do so you are branded as an outcast. The "right or wrong" of that is impossible to judge because morality is always subjective, there is no absolute right or wrong. The Carthaginians believed in sacrificing their infants and although I believe it is wrong, they didn't. There is no absolute right or wrong at all, it is always defined by your civilization group.

    What science am I refuting? If anything i'm perpetually the person on this forum who dismisses broscience and asks for clinical evidence. But i'm a software developer.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I suppose that for that it partially goes back to the definition of whether homosexuality is a nature or nurture issue - whether its genetic (which is basically impossible due to the non-reproductive nature)
    one of the interesting aspects of this particualr argument is how homosexuality is found in nature. My assumption is, since animals mental capacity is much simpler than ours, it is n ot necessarily a choice for them.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    one of the interesting aspects of this particualr argument is how homosexuality is found in nature. My assumption is, since animals mental capacity is much simpler than ours, it is n ot necessarily a choice for them.
    For animals that is true, but for humans there is no stating positively that all homosexual feelings are one or the other, which I probably should have been clearer on. Makes far more sense that there is some amount of overlap, with some people being more strongly wired that way genetically and some people less so, but nurture having some effect as well and our personal choices filling in the rest as far as desire to be with someone of the same sex goes. Still the act is entirely in ones control.

    Its pretty obvious that the ballooning in the last 20 years of lesbians is partially due to the encouragement by the media and young girls questioning that since they don't at 13 or 14 find any boys attractive that maybe they are lesbians. Not very different than blaming eating disorders on skinny models

  22. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Well, God created us free men free of choice. We made a bad decision in the beginning and thats why we are here.


    I can't find the original post containing THIS gem.

    Please, do tell how "we" (considering I am 39 years old and have made around 33-34 years' worth of "choices") made a bad decision in the beginning.

    Or...are you asserting that we have and will be judged/punished for the actions of others from a "just" being?
    This was actually Blacktail's post but as you quoted me...
    I meant of course "We" as a human race D. I have explained to you the story of Sin and how it affects us in previous threads, so I don't feel the need to go into depth here unless you truly wish to know what the Bible states again.
    As a short version, Satan challenged God's authority to rule, Eve went along with Satan, Adam followed. We thus inherited sin from the first set of genes. Like a pan with a dent that bakes bread with the same dent in the bread day after day.Sin meaning quite literally to miss the mark of perfection.
    God has let humanity rule themselves for the most part aside from his chosen people, and Satan the rest. All this for US to prove that man cannot rule himself very well and that God really is the best leader for us. He made the way out for us by sending his Son Jesus to earth to atone for our imperfection by way of propitiatory sacrifice. To make a way out for us. He could have killed us all and started again..so it is loving to give us another chance. Humans wouldn't do the same.
    We are not being judged/punished from the sins of others but how we deal with the sin we have inherited and how we either let it run our lives or fight against it.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    For animals that is true, but for humans there is no stating positively that all homosexual feelings are one or the other, which I probably should have been clearer on. Makes far more sense that there is some amount of overlap, with some people being more strongly wired that way genetically and some people less so, but nurture having some effect as well and our personal choices filling in the rest as far as desire to be with someone of the same sex goes. Still the act is entirely in ones control.

    Its pretty obvious that the ballooning in the last 20 years of lesbians is partially due to the encouragement by the media and young girls questioning that since they don't at 13 or 14 find any boys attractive that maybe they are lesbians. Not very different than blaming eating disorders on skinny models
    I would agree to an extent. I think the evidence of homosexuality in the nature leads more evidence to support is natural origin.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I would agree to an extent. I think the evidence of homosexuality in the nature leads more evidence to support is natural origin.
    by the same logic cannibalism could be suggested to be natural as well The urges may be natural but a conscious act of acting on them or not is what separates us from the animals. Its a natural for a larger male to beat up or kill a smaller male to take his mate in the animal world, would that somehow be appropriate in the human world because its common in nature?

  25. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    by the same logic cannibalism could be suggested to be natural as well The urges may be natural but a conscious act of acting on them or not is what separates us from the animals. Its a natural for a larger male to beat up or kill a smaller male to take his mate in the animal world, would that somehow be appropriate in the human world because its common in nature?
    I think you and I are battling semantics. I dont deny that there is control of the urge, however, the urge is derived from a natural source.
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