Uganda, a stand against homosexuality? Death penalty introduced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    I honestly never had a problem with Gay's doing civil unions or whatever it is. But marriage is something that did not come from the secular world, and is trampled on enough let alone letting something that is against the very laws that created our view of marriage step on it.
    The word marriage and civil union is interchangeable to and means the same thing to the state. The state has no business meddling in the religious/moral aspect of marriage. To them, marriage is simply a social contract for tax purposes, etc. That is why a priest can marry you in the church but you still need to apply for a license from the state. And atheists can still get married at the courthouse without the blessing of the church.

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    note to zeroV . . do not travel to Uganda
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    I did a spit take.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
    Apple juice.
    Wrong. The answer is; "sinners".


    lmao.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastRonin View Post
    x2..
    Well, God created us free men free of choice. We made a bad decision in the beginning and thats why we are here.


    I can't find the original post containing THIS gem.

    Please, do tell how "we" (considering I am 39 years old and have made around 33-34 years' worth of "choices") made a bad decision in the beginning.

    Or...are you asserting that we have and will be judged/punished for the actions of others from a "just" being?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacradocious View Post
    I would still argue it is not a choice. Gays can't help that they are wired to be homosexual. I can't help that I am drawn to women and have only fell in love with them. I am wired that way as are most of us. But some are not. A lot of gay men and women want to have children. If it was a choice, being gay would just be a phase that would pass once someone decided to have children. But it doesn't. The only choice we have is to accept who we really are, and thus choose to act on either our heterosexual or homosexual feelings.

    Your hate crime logic is a bit off. With this reasoning, what's wrong with murder? I've never seen a crime for bringing a life into the world.

    Hate crime laws simply recognize that it takes a crime to a more sadistic level to criminalize someone simply for who they are. I can understand how a woman murders her abusive husband, or how someone might kill their spouses mistress in a fit of rage. I can't understand how someone would kill someone for simply being white, muslim, gay, etc.

    I would be just as concerned if it was the other way around and gangs of gay men were running around murdering straight men for being straight. That would be totally fukced up on a different level if its hate based.
    You are totally backwards with both of these. I said nothing about emotion or desire, I spoke of action. You can fall in love with a second person while you are married and there is nothing wrong with that, taking action on it is wrong as taking action IS in your control.

    Similarly you missed the boat entirely on hate crimes. My point was that beating up a person because he is gay is no worse than beating up a person because he stepped on your toe. Again you are beating him up because of what he is, a clumsy fool. The start of violent crimes is always about what the other person is, whether its race, religion, personality, etc. Again, what else would be your cause of violence against someone? If you start a fight because someone is hitting on your girlfriend, it is you starting a fight because of "who he is" - a crass classless fool. And trying to say that race, religion, sexual preference is "out of a persons control", well honestly you can say the same for someone who is clumsy and unapologetic as thats the way they were raised.

    No violent crime is a "love" crime, they all have elements of hate. By establishing a higher penalty for the EXACT SAME action against a specific group you are in effect saying its not as big of a deal to perform that same action against people of any other group that doesn't get protected. Again, your feelings may or may not be entirely in your control, but your actions are. I'm all for stronger penalties for violent crimes, I'm a fan of faster death sentences as well to keep prison costs down. Rape, child molestation and first or second degree murder all deserve rapid death sentences.
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    Still waiting for the "Uganda: Gays miss Idi Amin" article.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    You are totally backwards with both of these. I said nothing about emotion or desire, I spoke of action. You can fall in love with a second person while you are married and there is nothing wrong with that, taking action on it is wrong as taking action IS in your control.

    Similarly you missed the boat entirely on hate crimes. My point was that beating up a person because he is gay is no worse than beating up a person because he stepped on your toe. Again you are beating him up because of what he is, a clumsy fool. The start of violent crimes is always about what the other person is, whether its race, religion, personality, etc. Again, what else would be your cause of violence against someone? If you start a fight because someone is hitting on your girlfriend, it is you starting a fight because of "who he is" - a crass classless fool. And trying to say that race, religion, sexual preference is "out of a persons control", well honestly you can say the same for someone who is clumsy and unapologetic as thats the way they were raised.

    No violent crime is a "love" crime, they all have elements of hate. By establishing a higher penalty for the EXACT SAME action against a specific group you are in effect saying its not as big of a deal to perform that same action against people of any other group that doesn't get protected. Again, your feelings may or may not be entirely in your control, but your actions are. I'm all for stronger penalties for violent crimes, I'm a fan of faster death sentences as well to keep prison costs down. Rape, child molestation and first or second degree murder all deserve rapid death sentences.
    I do believe we are all accountable for our actions because we can control what we do and how we choose to react to things. I simply don't think a gay person can be blamed for choosing to act on it. If a man is gay he has no business acting straight and marrying a woman and vise versa. It just isn't right in my opinion.

    I agree with you as far as the death penalty and making it more swift. I still disagree regarding hate crimes because the legislation isn't intended to give preferential treatment to any particular group. It is a shame that our legal system is so weak and inconsistent that we have to have such legislation to ensure the worst offenses get the highest level of punishment.

    The day after 9/11, a guy went into a gas station here in Phoenix and murdered the owner for being a Muslim (he was actually a Seikgh from India). He was murdered for being a "Muslim", not for money or because he personaly wronged him. I simply feel that it is an agregious act that should bring the strongest punishment with no option for leniency. In a similar sense, I feel that crimes against children, public servants, and pregnant women should bring the strongest punishment without a chance for leniency.

    But I understand your logic. If our courts were consistent and didn't lean so far to the left, there would be no need to differentiate which form of murder is worse, or which one deserves a harsher penalty. The way it is now, advocacy groups have to petition to change the laws to ensure firm justice is applied. Police and other public servants, children, and victims of hate crimes wouldn't need to petition for these things if the courts simply did their jobs and we actually started executing murderers regardless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    you really believe that AIDs is a homosexual disease soley at this point in time?
    Homo's and iv drug users.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave12 View Post
    Homo's and iv drug users.
    It depends on geography. That trend is only prevalent in the so-called, "Industrialized West," whereas heterosexuals predominate both confirmed HIV and AIDS cases in the MENA states, the African continent, the South Pacific and Eastern Europe-Asia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacradocious View Post
    I do believe we are all accountable for our actions because we can control what we do and how we choose to react to things. I simply don't think a gay person can be blamed for choosing to act on it. If a man is gay he has no business acting straight and marrying a woman and vise versa. It just isn't right in my opinion.
    I suppose that for that it partially goes back to the definition of whether homosexuality is a nature or nurture issue - whether its genetic (which is basically impossible due to the non-reproductive nature) or whether its the way a person is raised and their experiences in their childhood. Honestly its no different than any other social deviation in that respect. It just happens that its one that is generally harmless to others and is disproportionately glamorized by the media. And comically female homosexuality is generally supported by most males

    But if a man has no desire to be with a woman then true he shouldn't be with a woman, however if his country/social group strongly disallows homosexual physical contact then he can choose to be celibate instead of following through on his desires. Then you get into of course the question of whether "satisfying your sexual desires" is a human right or not, and i'd have to go with not on that one. Again specifically we have things like anti-polygamy laws, age of consent laws, etc that outlaw other forms of satisfying sexual desires so it is not considered an inalienable right. Heck strip bars are still illegal in many states here in the US.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    It depends on geography. That trend is only prevalent in the so-called, "Industrialized West," whereas heterosexuals predominate both confirmed HIV and AIDS cases in the MENA states, the African continent, the South Pacific and Eastern Europe-Asia.
    How does a heterosexual, monogamous, non iv drug using male catch himself the G.R.I.D.S. catch himself exactly? I know wimminz can catch the stuff relatively easily, boys on the other hand I was under the impression it took some doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    But if a man has no desire to be with a woman then true he shouldn't be with a woman, however if his country/social group strongly disallows homosexual physical contact then he can choose to be celibate instead of following through on his desires.
    What in the hell? So the said person should live their life within the borders of what the country or society allows, or deems to be appropriate? May I ask what your profession is? You seem to refute a lot of science and dismiss many claims.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
    What in the hell? So the said person should live their life within the borders of what the country or society allows, or deems to be appropriate? May I ask what your profession is? You seem to refute a lot of science and dismiss many claims.
    Yep, thats it exactly. That is how civilization actually works - the individuals agreeing to act as per the morals and expectations of their local peer group. Refusing to do so means rejecting the civilization of your local group. If you live in a society that believes in ritual animal sacrifice and you refuse to do so you are branded as an outcast. The "right or wrong" of that is impossible to judge because morality is always subjective, there is no absolute right or wrong. The Carthaginians believed in sacrificing their infants and although I believe it is wrong, they didn't. There is no absolute right or wrong at all, it is always defined by your civilization group.

    What science am I refuting? If anything i'm perpetually the person on this forum who dismisses broscience and asks for clinical evidence. But i'm a software developer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I suppose that for that it partially goes back to the definition of whether homosexuality is a nature or nurture issue - whether its genetic (which is basically impossible due to the non-reproductive nature)
    one of the interesting aspects of this particualr argument is how homosexuality is found in nature. My assumption is, since animals mental capacity is much simpler than ours, it is n ot necessarily a choice for them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    one of the interesting aspects of this particualr argument is how homosexuality is found in nature. My assumption is, since animals mental capacity is much simpler than ours, it is n ot necessarily a choice for them.
    For animals that is true, but for humans there is no stating positively that all homosexual feelings are one or the other, which I probably should have been clearer on. Makes far more sense that there is some amount of overlap, with some people being more strongly wired that way genetically and some people less so, but nurture having some effect as well and our personal choices filling in the rest as far as desire to be with someone of the same sex goes. Still the act is entirely in ones control.

    Its pretty obvious that the ballooning in the last 20 years of lesbians is partially due to the encouragement by the media and young girls questioning that since they don't at 13 or 14 find any boys attractive that maybe they are lesbians. Not very different than blaming eating disorders on skinny models
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Well, God created us free men free of choice. We made a bad decision in the beginning and thats why we are here.


    I can't find the original post containing THIS gem.

    Please, do tell how "we" (considering I am 39 years old and have made around 33-34 years' worth of "choices") made a bad decision in the beginning.

    Or...are you asserting that we have and will be judged/punished for the actions of others from a "just" being?
    This was actually Blacktail's post but as you quoted me...
    I meant of course "We" as a human race D. I have explained to you the story of Sin and how it affects us in previous threads, so I don't feel the need to go into depth here unless you truly wish to know what the Bible states again.
    As a short version, Satan challenged God's authority to rule, Eve went along with Satan, Adam followed. We thus inherited sin from the first set of genes. Like a pan with a dent that bakes bread with the same dent in the bread day after day.Sin meaning quite literally to miss the mark of perfection.
    God has let humanity rule themselves for the most part aside from his chosen people, and Satan the rest. All this for US to prove that man cannot rule himself very well and that God really is the best leader for us. He made the way out for us by sending his Son Jesus to earth to atone for our imperfection by way of propitiatory sacrifice. To make a way out for us. He could have killed us all and started again..so it is loving to give us another chance. Humans wouldn't do the same.
    We are not being judged/punished from the sins of others but how we deal with the sin we have inherited and how we either let it run our lives or fight against it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    For animals that is true, but for humans there is no stating positively that all homosexual feelings are one or the other, which I probably should have been clearer on. Makes far more sense that there is some amount of overlap, with some people being more strongly wired that way genetically and some people less so, but nurture having some effect as well and our personal choices filling in the rest as far as desire to be with someone of the same sex goes. Still the act is entirely in ones control.

    Its pretty obvious that the ballooning in the last 20 years of lesbians is partially due to the encouragement by the media and young girls questioning that since they don't at 13 or 14 find any boys attractive that maybe they are lesbians. Not very different than blaming eating disorders on skinny models
    I would agree to an extent. I think the evidence of homosexuality in the nature leads more evidence to support is natural origin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    I would agree to an extent. I think the evidence of homosexuality in the nature leads more evidence to support is natural origin.
    by the same logic cannibalism could be suggested to be natural as well The urges may be natural but a conscious act of acting on them or not is what separates us from the animals. Its a natural for a larger male to beat up or kill a smaller male to take his mate in the animal world, would that somehow be appropriate in the human world because its common in nature?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    by the same logic cannibalism could be suggested to be natural as well The urges may be natural but a conscious act of acting on them or not is what separates us from the animals. Its a natural for a larger male to beat up or kill a smaller male to take his mate in the animal world, would that somehow be appropriate in the human world because its common in nature?
    I think you and I are battling semantics. I dont deny that there is control of the urge, however, the urge is derived from a natural source.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    by the same logic cannibalism could be suggested to be natural as well The urges may be natural but a conscious act of acting on them or not is what separates us from the animals. Its a natural for a larger male to beat up or kill a smaller male to take his mate in the animal world, would that somehow be appropriate in the human world because its common in nature?
    This requires a moral judgement that, in fact, homosexuality is wrong. Murder and cannibalism can be objectively shown to be wrong and entirely destructive to society, whereas the same cannot be demonstrated (in spite of the insanity spewed) that the world is falling into "sin".
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    This requires a moral judgement that, in fact, homosexuality is wrong. Murder and cannibalism can be objectively shown to be wrong and entirely destructive to society, whereas the same cannot be demonstrated (in spite of the insanity spewed) that the world is falling into "sin".
    How does eating of flesh of a person who died other than by murder qualify as objectively being destructive to society? Or that destruction of imperfectly born newborns is objectively harmful? Just about anything that deals in trying to define whether something is destructive to society or not still depends on the definition of the society itself. Marriage could be considered to be destructive to an individual society depending on the society itself.
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    Original intentions were for man and woman to reproduce. Man and man cannot reproduce, so I guess the question is (keeping evolution in mind) is it fair to say that a homosexual man is a defect so to speak? I don't intend for this comment to be a dergatory comment, I'm just trying to see if it sheds any light on the "it's a choice" vs. "born with homosexuality" debate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    This requires a moral judgement that, in fact, homosexuality is wrong. Murder and cannibalism can be objectively shown to be wrong and entirely destructive to society, whereas the same cannot be demonstrated (in spite of the insanity spewed) that the world is falling into "sin".
    No, not wrong per say, but certain atypical. No? It has nothing to do with "sin" in and of itself, since a sin standard is pretty subjective from person to person, but the practice is abnormal at the least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Manback View Post
    Original intentions were for man and woman to reproduce. Man and man cannot reproduce, so I guess the question is (keeping evolution in mind) is it fair to say that a homosexual man is a defect so to speak? I don't intend for this comment to be a dergatory comment, I'm just trying to see if it sheds any light on the "it's a choice" vs. "born with homosexuality" debate.
    I see it like any natural sigmoid curve, homos are just on the fringes of sexual behavior, and not at the pinnacle of the evolution of the species. It's were they have certainly always been throughout time, otherwise we'd all be budding to replicate ourselves by now.
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    I just wanted to insert that I don't in any way agree with uganda's decision, or even the basic premise of treating people's privately performed sexual acts as societally relevant at all, but I do support that each society has the right to define what individuals in that society have a right to do. There are no objective/universal pieces of morality just as there are no objective/universal rights of any creature whether man or other.
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    interesting read, throughout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I just wanted to insert that I don't in any way agree with uganda's decision, or even the basic premise of treating people's privately performed sexual acts as societally relevant at all, but I do support that each society has the right to define what individuals in that society have a right to do. There are no objective/universal pieces of morality just as there are no objective/universal rights of any creature whether man or other.
    Good answer! You are a wise man EZ.

    I would like to go one step further, and propose that all hot lesbians (only hot ones) not be punished, yet in fact be given extra special privileges for public displays of affection! This can help compensate and balance the injustice for those poor gay men being persecuted in Uganda.

    Seriously though, this is really a dead issue, since we don't live in Uganda and have no background to properly judge their governmental protocols. We have enough issues of our own we could be debating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I just wanted to insert that I don't in any way agree with uganda's decision, or even the basic premise of treating people's privately performed sexual acts as societally relevant at all, but I do support that each society has the right to define what individuals in that society have a right to do. There are no objective/universal pieces of morality just as there are no objective/universal rights of any creature whether man or other.


    Like the use of STEROIDS and questionable supplements?!?!


    Ok, goodnight folks. Board is closed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    ...just as there are no objective/universal rights of any creature whether man or other.
    So, you don't subscribe to the idea of inalienable rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?"

    (Real question. Not being argumentative.)
    RTR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Like the use of STEROIDS and questionable supplements?!?!


    Ok, goodnight folks. Board is closed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberring View Post
    So, you don't subscribe to the idea of inalienable rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?"

    (Real question. Not being argumentative.)
    They are only "inalienable" rights because our society has defined them that way. If they were truly inalienable then no society would or could have ever existed without them, which isn't the case. I prefer those being treated as rights, but don't see them as universal truths or even necessarily required for a society to survive or thrive. How many thousands of years did egyptian society survive without those rights? Far longer than the US has so far.

    Even without our society, the right to life is violated both by death sentences as well as 3rd trimester abortions. So obviously not inalienable even here. And although abortions weren't common at all during the time period when the bill of rights and constitution were written, the death penalty surely was.

    The reason I specifically mention 3rd trimester abortions is that we now have the ability to deliver premature babies pretty successfully as early as 22 weeks into pregnancy (Florida gives a death certificate for miscarriages after week 20) so any abortions after that point are taking away the right to life of an organism that could survive outside of the mothers body. I don't mind the idea of abortions earlier than that, as up till that point the child is not capable of being delivered and surviving so it really is more of a parasite or part of the mothers body. After that point however it no longer is either a parasite or a part of the mothers body, but a living person who could be breathing the air and being fed via a bottle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post

    Its pretty obvious that the ballooning in the last 20 years of lesbians is partially due to the encouragement by the media and young girls questioning that since they don't at 13 or 14 find any boys attractive that maybe they are lesbians. Not very different than blaming eating disorders on skinny models
    I'm not convinced it's ballooning. I think they just make it more obvious because society isn't as socially conservative here like it used to be. Some women I think are conditioned to be lesbians by society because no man would ever consider having sex with them let alone marry them. Rosie O'donnel is an example that comes to mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacradocious View Post
    I'm not convinced it's ballooning. I think they just make it more obvious because society isn't as socially conservative here like it used to be. Some women I think are conditioned to be lesbians by society because no man would ever consider having sex with them let alone marry them. Rosie O'donnel is an example that comes to mind.
    Excellent point. People are scripted from childhood and very, very few ever break free of that imprinting. Some will have it made because their parents, siblings and environment/society programmed them well at just the right times of development. Others will be screwed for life, no matter how you try to free them, destined to be born losers, or "victims of society" as they see themselves. From my observations, it's a common position of gays and lesbians to have this kind of tragic script. The deep pain and overt contempt for social convention often indicates alcoholic parental origins, and they try to pass it off on anybody with a seemingly complementary role too play. You see, there can be no victim without a persecutor and a rescuer, it's a three-handed drama triangle in the Victim Game.

    This personal slavery is unknown to most people, who live out their scripts confused and oblivious to it's insidious influence. Human life is mainly a process of filling time until the arrival of death, with little if any perceived choice of what kind of business to transact during the long wait. After all, they were "just born that way", don't you hear that a lot these days? But for some fortunate souls, there is something that transcends all these games and self-defeating behaviors, something that rises above the programming in the past, and something more rewarding than the the trivial games they enjoys playing. It's called intimacy, but it is dangerous, so people seek social circles because there is safety in numbers you know, and their losing roles solidify that much more with a losing script payoff. This may mean there is no hope for the human race, but there is certainly hope for individual members of it who finally reject their fears and embrace true autonomy.
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    The only people i've known with aids is my gay uncle, a guy who had gay sex for drugs and a kid born with it because his father was bisexual. If being gay was exclusively genetic, it would eventually go away. It obviously isn't. I try to be a tolerant person and don't care what people do behind closed doors but I hate the gay agenda being shoved in my face everyday. I like living in a free country, thats what we fought for but, I wish all the gays would move to Uganda.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    but I do support that each society has the right to define what individuals in that society have a right to do. There are no objective/universal pieces of morality just as there are no objective/universal rights of any creature whether man or other.
    Now that I can agree with!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lutherblsstt View Post
    Now that I can agree with!
    Same-Sex Marriage Judge Finds That a Child Has Neither a Need Nor a Right to a Mother

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/70722

    This guy agrees with you too, luther! He said not even kids have rights.
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    Silly ***gots ****s are for chicks..

    Simple remedy for the "issue" at hand.. If your gay don't go there.. Just like if your muslim don't go to Australia and try to press your beliefs.. This political correctness **** is the reason why our country has gone to ****s.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabeBIG View Post
    Silly ***gots ****s are for chicks..

    Simple remedy for the "issue" at hand.. If your gay don't go there.. Just like if your muslim don't go to Australia and try to press your beliefs.. This political correctness **** is the reason why our country has gone to ****s.
    Yes, muslims should have nowhere near the standing they do here.

    Example. A man I know is christian, walked into a chase bank that had a "no hat" policy. A muslim girl walked in same time with her hood up, he was wearing a ball cap. Guess who got asked to take off their hat? And who wasnt asked?

    He looked over at the muslim and said "Do you really want to go there"

    Then commented "I know this bank was started based on Godly princibles, so I will pray for it to regain its self respect."

    Well he stood to the side when she was going to make him take it off or not do the transaction, and this was for church money for the church account.

    He steps 3 feet over, starts praying out loud in the middle of the bank holding up the line and everything. And he said he would pray until he could do his banking, or the news people show up.

    She eventually told him just to come over and hurry it up, and yet...low and behold there was a 100 dollar bonus added to the deposit for being a "preferred customer" hahaha.

    muslims here, may be mostly normal people, but like gays they are given special privileges that are in no way earned.

    Equality is what were supposed to be about.


    I dont like being around them, they show no respect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtlasEnduring View Post

    I dont like being around them, they show no respect.
    That is plain ignorant. Not all Muslims are like that, especially in other countries. There are americanized ones (I find many Americans rude and disrespectful, but not all of them) and there are extremists but there are also loving family oriented ones that are very respectful.
    I am not a Muslim BTW lol, but I know many people of varied faiths. The rudest ones actually I have found have been hardcore fundamentalist Christians and hardcore Evolutionists. They have more in common than they think.
    If you want to blame people for the state of all this PC bs..blame the media and propagandists in the world. They are paid gossipers and Kaniver's.
  

  
 

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