You Are Being Lied to About Pirates

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  1. lutherblsstt
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    no kidding.. another article blaming America for the worlds problems...
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    Its San Francisco. All they do is hate america and plug buttholes while sniffing their own farts.
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    The comments were the most interesting; however...i digress.

    Another article talking about conspiracy theories. Is there nothing else a 2nd rate news paper can talk about to get readers/ratings? Controversy sells, aint' love grand.
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    It's not really the controversy that sells, it's rather the thought that it is controversial to someone and the common mores that formulate society today cannot resist something forced upon them.
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    Interesting article. There is two sides to every story.
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    You need to watch the newest episode of South Park, came on last wednesday. Check it out online at comedy central. All about Somalian Pirates
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrkn4bigrmusles View Post
    no kidding.. another article blaming America for the worlds problems...
    You could not have read the article.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    The comments were the most interesting; however...i digress.

    Another article talking about conspiracy theories. Is there nothing else a 2nd rate news paper can talk about to get readers/ratings? Controversy sells, aint' love grand.
    The story originally came from http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...s-1225817.html

    Where exactly do they discuss "conspiracy theories" in the article?


    "Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the U.N. envoy to Somalia, tells me: “Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it.” When I asked Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: “Nothing. There has been no cleanup, no compensation and no prevention.”

    At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia’s seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish stocks by over-exploitation - and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300 million worth of tuna, shrimp, lobster and other sea life is being stolen every year by vast trawlers illegally sailing into Somalia’s unprotected seas.

    The local fishermen have suddenly lost their livelihoods, and they are starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: “If nothing is done, there soon won’t be much fish left in our coastal waters.”

    This is the context in which the men we are calling “pirates” have emerged. Everyone agrees they were ordinary Somalian fishermen who at first took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least wage a “tax” on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coast Guard of Somalia - and it’s not hard to see why."

    Also:

    "The independent Somalian news site WardheerNews found 70 per cent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence".

    No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters – especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies. But in a telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali: "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas." William Scott would understand.

    Did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome? We won't act on those crimes – the only sane solution to this problem – but when some of the fishermen responded by disrupting the transit-corridor for 20 per cent of the world's oil supply, we swiftly send in the gunboats."
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    THE TWO PIRACIES IN SOMALIA: WHY THE WORLD IGNORES THE OTHER?
    http://wardheernews.com/Articles_09/...n_Somalia.html

    "But the older and mother of all piracies in Somalia - illegal foreign fishing piracy - in the Somali seas is ignored, underlining the international community’s misunderstanding and partiality of the underlying interdependent issues involved and the impracticality of the proposed actions to find ways to effectively resolve the piracy threat.

    This massive “Global Armada” invasion is carried out on the pretext to protect the busy shipping trade routes of the Gulf of Aden and the Indian Ocean from Somali shipping piracy, which threatens to disrupt these international lifeline sea ways. While there are two equally nasty, criminal, inhuman and exploiting gangs of pirates in Somalia, only one of them is publicized by the western media: the Somali shipping pirates attacking merchant shipping in these sea lanes, where the illegal poachers are also actively operating.

    THE ILLEGAL FISHING PIRACY

    The other more damaging economically, environmentally and security-wise is the massive illegal foreign fishing piracy that have been poaching and destroying the Somali marine resources for the last 18 years following the collapse of the Somali regime in 1991. With its usual double standards when such matters concern Africa, the “international community” comes out in force to condemn and declare war against the Somali fishermen pirates while discreetly protecting the numerous Illegal, Unreported and Unregulated (IUU) fishing fleets there from Europe, Arabia and the Far East. "
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    Gitta love threads from luther.
  12. lutherblsstt
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Gitta love threads from luther.
    There ARE two sides to every story.
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    America is evil.


    The world according to Luther.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Gitta love threads from luther.
    This flu outbreak is our fault as well.
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    I heard one story that said that Obama started the flu, since he met with some scientist that ended up dying shortly after.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo Kramer View Post
    America is evil.


    The world according to Luther.
    Wrong. But you seem to have the worldview that 'the American government can do no wrong'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lutherblsstt View Post
    Wrong. But you seem to have the worldview that 'the American government can do no wrong'.
    Going through your post history and mine, I think the extreme point of view is on your end Luther...not mine.


    Its not that I think the American government can do no wrong, its that you think it can't, or rarely has done anything right.

    There ARE always two sides to every story and in your case it usually consists of a "victim" and how America has created/exploited him. This time its the exploited and justified Pirate.

    You would fit into San Fran quite well.
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  18. lutherblsstt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo Kramer View Post
    Going through your post history and mine, I think the extreme point of view is on your end Luther...not mine.


    Its not that I think the American government can do no wrong, its that you think it can't, or rarely has done anything right.

    There ARE always two sides to every story and in your case it usually consists of a "victim" and how America has created/exploited him. This time its the exploited and justified Pirate.

    You would fit into San Fran quite well.
    You again mis-characterize (or misunderstand the reason for) the nature of my posts,but after a few exchanges with you I expect no less.

    Anyway,a couple quotes:

    "To oppose the policies of a government does not mean you are against the country or the people that the government supposedly represents. Such opposition should be called what it really is: democracy, or democratic dissent, or having a critical perspective about what your leaders are doing. Either we have the right to democratic dissent and criticism of these policies or we all lie down and let the leader, the Fuhrer, do what is best, while we follow uncritically, and obey whatever he commands. That's just what the Germans did with Hitler, and look where it got them."

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    The easiest way to frame the issue is this: why is it when Americans raid ships within a certain distance of their shores it's called the Coast Guard, when Somalis do it it's called piracy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lutherblsstt View Post
    You again mis-characterize (or misunderstand the reason for) the nature of my posts,but after a few exchanges with you I expect no less.

    Anyway,a couple quotes:

    "To oppose the policies of a government does not mean you are against the country or the people that the government supposedly represents. Such opposition should be called what it really is: democracy, or democratic dissent, or having a critical perspective about what your leaders are doing. Either we have the right to democratic dissent and criticism of these policies or we all lie down and let the leader, the Fuhrer, do what is best, while we follow uncritically, and obey whatever he commands. That's just what the Germans did with Hitler, and look where it got them."

    Michael Parenti




    To criticize one's country is to do it a service. Criticism, in short, is more than a right; it is an act of patriotism - a higher form of patriotism, I believe, than the familiar rituals and national adulation."

    U.S. Senator J. William Fulbright


    Where did I state any sort of criticism is wrong?

    What I said is that's all you do, especially when it comes to this country.

    To be more specific in case you missed it the first time:

    "There ARE always two sides to every story and in your case it usually consists of a "victim" and how America has created/exploited him."

    That's what you do. If you don't feel you do, so be it. I think you do as do many others.

    I am not the only one that shares this view as its been stated numerous times by others. Don't blame me for the image you portray with your posts.

    If you view of my posts is the "American government can do no wrong", so be it. I can live with that, even though untrue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    The easiest way to frame the issue is this: why is it when Americans raid ships within a certain distance of their shores it's called the Coast Guard, when Somalis do it it's called piracy?
    Piracy is a war-like act committed by a nonstate actor, especially robbery or criminal violence committed at sea, on a river, or sometimes on shore, either from a vessel flying no national flag, or one flying a national flag but without authorization from a national authority.


    Where does the US fit in here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo Kramer View Post
    Piracy is a war-like act committed by a nonstate actor, especially robbery or criminal violence committed at sea, on a river, or sometimes on shore, either from a vessel flying no national flag, or one flying a national flag but without authorization from a national authority.

    Where does the US fit in here?
    In demonstrating that so long as it's government doing the thieving, somehow it's okay.

    More to the point, Somalia, in resisting the rest of the world's attempts to force a central government on them, are the closest to proving that while it's ain't perfect, a life without the state is possible. That can't be allowed to continue. And it is perfectly legitimate to ask why actions taken by private individuals are somehow criminal and yet when the state does the same it is perfectly fine and dandy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    In demonstrating that so long as it's government doing the thieving, somehow it's okay.
    So now the Coast Guard steals?

    BRB...joining the Coast Guard to get my booty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo Kramer View Post
    This flu outbreak is our fault as well.
    Damn you, you werent supposed to tell.

    I wonder if Luther walks around with his tinfoil hat as well?
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    I was water boarded. They got me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo Kramer View Post
    I was water boarded. They got me.
    Oh snap..........where is the pic of you all tied up with a female pointing at you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo Kramer View Post
    So now the Coast Guard steals?

    BRB...joining the Coast Guard to get my booty.
    Of course not. They're the Coast Guard. So, when they take stuff that isn't theirs, say some intoxicants the government doesn't want you to have along with the boat they're in and the houses and vehicles and bank accounts of those who are transporting the stuff, it's called confiscation or seizure. Anyone else does it, it's called theft. When the government does it though, a magic pixie pops out of God's ass, sprinkles some dust on the people involved, and it makes actions that for an individual would be 'criminal' all fine and dandy for the state engage in with impunity.
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    you guys are funny. good thread
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    In demonstrating that so long as it's government doing the thieving, somehow it's okay.

    More to the point, Somalia, in resisting the rest of the world's attempts to force a central government on them, are the closest to proving that while it's ain't perfect, a life without the state is possible. That can't be allowed to continue. And it is perfectly legitimate to ask why actions taken by private individuals are somehow criminal and yet when the state does the same it is perfectly fine and dandy.
    Quote Originally Posted by dg806 View Post
    Oh snap..........where is the pic of you all tied up with a female pointing at you?
    Thats in my personal collection.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    Of course not. They're the Coast Guard. So, when they take stuff that isn't theirs, say some intoxicants the government doesn't want you to have along with the boat they're in and the houses and vehicles and bank accounts of those who are transporting the stuff, it's called confiscation or seizure. Anyone else does it, it's called theft. When the government does it though, a magic pixie pops out of God's ass, sprinkles some dust on the people involved, and it makes actions that for an individual would be 'criminal' all fine and dandy for the state engage in with impunity.
    Youre hilarious. I want 2 of whatever you are drinking. Youre right, life without a strong government is possible. However, the end result is genocide, starvation, and lack of health care and education. But youre right, we are impierialist pigs for trying to end that. Or defending our citizens when they are hijacked.
  30. mikinTx
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    Need one more post to add something from today's BBC news online (about the pirates)
  31. mikinTx
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    Just in case this pirate debate appears to be too clear cut:

    Somali vigilantes capture pirates...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8022820.stm
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    some good posts here. this is just a classic example of how the US media dictates how we view certain groups of people. our media is horribly one sided on most things, not all, but most. would you believe that not all muslims want us dead....its true. but if i ask some of the people i run into on a daily basis....most responses are something like "those f***ing towel-headed pukes, we should drop a nuke over there and turn the whole desert into a sheet of glass". no one here needs to be offended, unless you actually think like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasTitan View Post
    Youre hilarious. I want 2 of whatever you are drinking. Youre right, life without a strong government is possible. However, the end result is genocide, starvation, and lack of health care and education.
    Historically speaking all of those are lot more likely to be the result of a government's presence, not its absence. It's also worth mentioning that whatever near stateless societies exist today, they have years of government control before they become stateless that they need to recover from. I mean, if a person with a massive cancerous tumor gets it taken out and goes into remission, you're not going to blame their weightloss and anemia on their current healthy status but their past unhealthy status, ya know?

    But youre right, we are impierialist pigs for trying to end that. Or defending our citizens when they are hijacked.
    If you don't want to get hijacked, stay away from the property of people who tend to pissed when you're there uninvited. Or, negotiate with them. God forbid though we acknowledge Somalia or its population on any level without a central government in place to fleece them for us. Hell, the deal might actually work to their benefit and while I doubt the world will go anarcho capitalist the situation might make people elsewhere more apt question how Somalis manage to live without seeing massive portions of their income disappear into some bureaucrat's pocket. That would be truly horrific.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    Of course not. They're the Coast Guard. So, when they take stuff that isn't theirs, say some intoxicants the government doesn't want you to have along with the boat they're in and the houses and vehicles and bank accounts of those who are transporting the stuff, it's called confiscation or seizure. Anyone else does it, it's called theft. When the government does it though, a magic pixie pops out of God's ass, sprinkles some dust on the people involved, and it makes actions that for an individual would be 'criminal' all fine and dandy for the state engage in with impunity.
    Oh yeah, I know all about that, especially from the local guys down here in Fort Myers. Those guys are filthy rich from all the Haitians and Cubans they steal trying to get into the country. They then sell those Haitians and Cubans on the black market. Its a wonderful business to be in.

    Yes, the Coast Guard confiscating and ruining peoples lives is a huge problem in this country. And they are racists too...When my sisters, cousins, uncle was kidnapped by the Coast Guard for ransom, I was pissed!

    ..and don't EVEN start talking about cops...we should just do away with them!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lennoxchi View Post
    some good posts here. this is just a classic example of how the US media dictates how we view certain groups of people. our media is horribly one sided on most things, not all, but most. would you believe that not all muslims want us dead....its true. but if i ask some of the people i run into on a daily basis....most responses are something like "those f***ing towel-headed pukes, we should drop a nuke over there and turn the whole desert into a sheet of glass". no one here needs to be offended, unless you actually think like that.
    Yes, that's exactly what we all think. Those poor pirates are just very angry environmentalists. I say let Greenpeace hijack vessels as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo Kramer View Post
    Yes, that's exactly what we all think. Those poor pirates are just very angry environmentalists. I say let Greenpeace hijack vessels as well.
    i'm not talking about the people who are hijacking others and holding them for ransom. i'm talking about the fisherman and the people who have to deal with that mercury and other waste that is washing up on their shores. as if those people don't have a crappy life anyway, now they have to deal with that crap too. funny, i never heard anything about that on CBS, NBC or Fox news networks......have you? that is my point, for all most American's know, all people on that side of Africa are gun toting, ransom loving savages. don't get me wrong here man, i'm not a tree hugging liberal, and the ones who hijack ships and hold crew members hostage, should be dealt with swiftly and to the full extent of international law.........but that small population does not make up the whole that is in that region. theres a big difference here.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by lennoxchi View Post
    that small population does not make up the whole that is in that region
    which is the problem with any and every non-specific action ever being initiated anywhere in the world along with the source of every stereotype and ethnic/racial/social characterization ever created ... ever.

    (not contesting your opinion, just highlighting the universal impact of that statement!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by lennoxchi View Post
    i'm not talking about the people who are hijacking others and holding them for ransom. i'm talking about the fisherman and the people who have to deal with that mercury and other waste that is washing up on their shores. as if those people don't have a crappy life anyway, now they have to deal with that crap too. funny, i never heard anything about that on CBS, NBC or Fox news networks......have you? that is my point, for all most American's know, all people on that side of Africa are gun toting, ransom loving savages. don't get me wrong here man, i'm not a tree hugging liberal, and the ones who hijack ships and hold crew members hostage, should be dealt with swiftly and to the full extent of international law.........but that small population does not make up the whole that is in that region. theres a big difference here.....
    No I don't hear about it... I generally hear about the mercury and toxins in our own water, especially in canned tuna.

    I don't know why you think people here are talking about fisherman or the country as a whole. Once you kidnap and hold someone for ransom, you are a fisherman no longer.

    Companies and farmers alike dump tons of waste into the Mississippi that washes into the Gulf and makes it a dead zone for 3 months of the year crippling the shrimping industry....therefore I am going to kidnap those who work for those companies and farmers and hold them for ransom. Why? Not because I want the polluting to stop, but I can make more money at kidnapping.

    What you also don't hear from the news is the last administration is beloved in Africa because the last administration has given more money to that region than any other administration or European or Asia country. George Bush has an 80% approval rating in Kenya. Go figure.

    There is a lot of **** we don't hear. Far be it for me to defend the media, but its ultimate purpose now is to make money, not report what needs to be reported.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  39. CDB
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    You have a marginal talent for avoiding the issue. Did I say taking **** was all the Coast Guard did? No, just that I found it interesting to say the least that actions engaged in by our government every day that are considered legitimate are somehow criminal when individuals do them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo Kramer View Post
    Oh yeah, I know all about that, especially from the local guys down here in Fort Myers. Those guys are filthy rich from all the Haitians and Cubans they steal trying to get into the country. They then sell those Haitians and Cubans on the black market. Its a wonderful business to be in.

    Yes, the Coast Guard confiscating and ruining peoples lives is a huge problem in this country. And they are racists too...When my sisters, cousins, uncle was kidnapped by the Coast Guard for ransom, I was pissed!

    ..and don't EVEN start talking about cops...we should just do away with them!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo Kramer View Post
    Yes, that's exactly what we all think. Those poor pirates are just very angry environmentalists. I say let Greenpeace hijack vessels as well.
    Technically the assertion of property rights in the oceans and air would solve a lot of environmental problems. Which is likely why the government goes out of its way to try and not let that happen.
  

  
 

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