Can someone help me with the math?

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  1. JDK5386
    JDK5386's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Honestly, I think they just dump the currency if our inflation rates get that high.
    They can't, unless they want their currency to appreciate and net exports to take a nosedive.

    Check out the inflation the fed put out today. My gold mining stock jumped 12.5% in a little over an hour after hearing this.[/url]

    The fed buying 300 billion in treasuries is the same as just printing more money. Buy gold and oil. Banks are starting to look good too.
    This isn't likely to create an inflation. It may moderate deflationary pressures. If prices and output are falling, increasing the money supply does not necessarily produce an inflation.

    That gold and oil are wildly popular in an environment of rising unemployment and lowering inflation is a testament to the power of a thoroughly histrionic media.

    sure, but a 7% inflation rate is still within manageable rates as far as raises so pay keeps up goes. The trick is that it devalues existing loans, making them easier to pay. a $1800 a month mortgage doesn't change as inflation goes up, but earnings do (generally)

    Its probably the only thing that would really work for us right now, but no federal person can say it without getting huge flack.
    Debt is at ~65% of GDP. This is a mid level for a developed economy. It has been as high as 140% of GDP. The majority of the interest is payable at 3-5%. Is it a problem? No doubt. Is it insurmountable? No, higher levels have been paid off with far, far lower levels of disposable income and in a low-inflation environment.

    These deflationary cycles have to be disrupted with either fiscal or monetary policy, or we get a Great Depression 2.0. It means large increases in the money supply and large deficits in the short run, but if you don't disrupt these cycles, then you wind up damaging the real economic activity that is at the core of a strong currency and sound tax revenue.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by JDK5386 View Post
    They can't, unless they want their currency to appreciate and net exports to take a nosedive.
    Not true. they'd dump our currency for mostly a huge loss as there is noone else out there right now with the capability of absorbing that much debt at one time. so they'd get pennies on the dollar. Their currency conversion vs the US might suffer, but really just from the dollar devaluation.



    Quote Originally Posted by JDK5386 View Post
    Debt is at ~65% of GDP. This is a mid level for a developed economy. It has been as high as 140% of GDP. The majority of the interest is payable at 3-5%. Is it a problem? No doubt. Is it insurmountable? No, higher levels have been paid off with far, far lower levels of disposable income and in a low-inflation environment.
    That is wrong. You can't only look at the debt as it stands as a static dollar amount or % of gdp, you have to also consider the long term liabilities of social security, medicare and medicaide. The addition of their liability over the next 30 years makes a far grimmer picture. Also you have to consider that as the size of government grows it becomes a larger % of GDP itself, which since it is not an industry capable of production means lower GDP growth. Also all the other countries that have pulled themselves out of a debt level such as this were manufacturing economies, who had a much lower standard of living than we do now (including us when when last did it)

    Quote Originally Posted by JDK5386 View Post
    These deflationary cycles have to be disrupted with either fiscal or monetary policy, or we get a Great Depression 2.0. It means large increases in the money supply and large deficits in the short run, but if you don't disrupt these cycles, then you wind up damaging the real economic activity that is at the core of a strong currency and sound tax revenue.
    I'll agree with the first sentence, we can't allow deflation to continue. I fail to see why it means we need large defecits in the short run. Much of this problem was caused by keeping interest rates too LOW by keeping inflation too LOW. By forcing both to be at a reasonable rate it will all straighten out.

    And what real economic activity do we have any more honestly? Our poverty level is still better than most of europe lives (in terms of home size, ownership of "stuff" like cars, etc) so we've priced ourselves out of competition on most of the world stage. The only way we do become competitive again is thru a horrible devaluation in our currency (since we have enough natural resources here in the US to do just fine without imports) or through our working class giving up their nike dreams and working for reasonable rates. $38/hr and free family healthy care for working on an auto assembly line? Give me a break.
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  3. lutherblsstt
    lutherblsstt's Avatar

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIeImOsyWGY"]YouTube - TAX THE RICH[/ame]

  4. right, punish the productive, to pay for those who refuse to produce. Seems fair.
  5. lutherblsstt
    lutherblsstt's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    right, punish the productive, to pay for those who refuse to produce. Seems fair.
    It was actually a spoof on the New Tax The Rich policy .
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  6. Darn you for posting something I have to agree with
  7. lutherblsstt
    lutherblsstt's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Darn you for posting something I have to agree with

    Sorry

  8. Quote Originally Posted by JDK5386 View Post
    They can't, unless they want their currency to appreciate and net exports to take a nosedive.
    Think about this.....they're loaning us money and selling us goods. The parasitic trading relationship the US has with China cannot last as it stands. China is retooling their economy to essentially be self sufficient. The second they decouple their currency with the dollar, the Yuan will rise and the Chinese consumer will get a newfound spending power. It is an illusion that the China relies on the US.

    This isn't likely to create an inflation. It may moderate deflationary pressures. If prices and output are falling, increasing the money supply does not necessarily produce an inflation.
    Deflation is a temporary environment at best with a fiat currency and an interventionist central bank. Doubling the money supply may bring a temporary balance to the credit market, but I'd compare it to filling up a bottle with the faucet on at full blast.....no matter what, you will get spillage.....you can't just turn off the faucet when it fills up. That's how we'll get inflation. Massive inflation. I'm calling 6% by Dec 2009, 10%+ by Dec 2010. What will really suck is if the economy hasn't recovered by then. They'll have to raise rates and stop whatever recovery may have started, or let inflation get even more out of control.

    Like I said, buy gold, gold miners, and oil producers.

    That gold and oil are wildly popular in an environment of rising unemployment and lowering inflation is a testament to the power of a thoroughly histrionic media.
    Nothing of the sort. Gold has been the currency of choice for 5000+years. Oil is what moves the world. They both have objective value. This is not 1930. We don't have a currency that will stay deflated.

    Debt is at ~65% of GDP. This is a mid level for a developed economy. It has been as high as 140% of GDP. The majority of the interest is payable at 3-5%. Is it a problem? No doubt. Is it insurmountable? No, higher levels have been paid off with far, far lower levels of disposable income and in a low-inflation environment.
    The problem with your assumption is that when we had 140% GDP we were at war, a temporary condition. Today we have expanded permanent government entitlement programs, permanently expanding our debt obligations. This was not a temporary surge in spending, this was a permanent change in the size of government.

    These deflationary cycles have to be disrupted with either fiscal or monetary policy, or we get a Great Depression 2.0. It means large increases in the money supply and large deficits in the short run, but if you don't disrupt these cycles, then you wind up damaging the real economic activity that is at the core of a strong currency and sound tax revenue.
    Not a Keynes fan. Printing funny money is not a solution out of an economic downturn. The dollar is at a precarious position right now, given that there are many nations want to reject the dollar as the worldwide currency of choice. Devaluing the dollar right now only adds to that sentiment. If the dollar lost its preferential status, America would have to start paying off its loans at the currency the debt was purchased in, which is suicidal in an inflationary environment. This has led to credit defaults in such countries as Argentina, Russia, and Thailand. Currency games is a game of economic Russian roulette. Play at your own risk.

    Given time and a solid monetary foundation, the economy will heal on its own, in a healthy manner. With these currency games, we're setting ourselves up for an even bigger bubble than oil, techs, and real estate, that will pop even harder than the previous three. Currency games are the most surefire way to get a second great depression.
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