Is there something wrong with my chest development?

jjm

jjm

Member
Is my chest supposed to look like this? The lower absolutely sucks. I'm at 14.2% bf.

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Nothing looks wrong with it per se. Maybe you need to focus on more of an arrangement of various chest exercises. What's your current chest routine look like?

And yeah...you're the leanest 14.2 I've ever seen.
 
Right now I do 3x8 flat and incline bench, then I do pec deck fly's. Next I do an exercise on the cable crossover machine. I'm not too sure what it's called, but I use the low pulley, then bring the arms up to about my head level and squeeze my chest together. I hope that makes sense. After that sometimes I'll throw in dips.

I got my bf taken 2 seperate times and it came up 14.2% both times. The guy used an electronic caliper that took measurements from my bi, tri, lat, and stomach.
 
jjm said:
Right now I do 3x8 flat and incline bench, then I do pec deck fly's. Next I do an exercise on the cable crossover machine. I'm not too sure what it's called, but I use the low pulley, then bring the arms up to about my head level and squeeze my chest together. I hope that makes sense. After that sometimes I'll throw in dips.

I got my bf taken 2 seperate times and it came up 14.2% both times. The guy used an electronic caliper that took measurements from my bi, tri, lat, and stomach.
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Electronic calculations are worth crap IMO. You can get a decent idea through formulations and standard calipers but to get an accurate reading you need to get tested in a water tank.


Also, as far as your chest exercises. I see no exercises for lower chest development. I would recommend rotating 6 exercises for your chest, them all being compoud exercises. Two for your mid chest/flys, two for your upper chest, and two for your lower. This should even out things for you.
 
First of all you're not 14.2, more like 12% if that. Second your chest is fine compared to the development of the rest of your upper body. I'd recommend bagging ALL machine movements for a while. Focus on heavy, strict form presses (especially incline and decline, I've never been a fan of flat, I guess I like my shoulders too much) and incline dumbell flyes. Keep it simple, train heavy, and eat until you bust (cleanly of course). The rest is just patience.
 
Nothing wrong with your chest you just need over development, and like Rocky82 said ditch the machines, use the heavy compound exercises.
 
You store fat in your chest. What you need to be worrying about (besides leaning out) is building your back.
 
What other compound exercises can I do for chest?

I'm having problems getting my back to grow. Right now my back routine consists of:
widegrip pullups
deadlifts (sometimes I'll do hyperextensions with a 25lb plate)
wide bent over rows
t bar rows
cable rows.
 
Nothing is wrong with your chest at all man. No offense, you just need more size in general. I don't know how much you weigh so this is just a general statement, but guys @ 170 lb & 14% bf guys aren't going to have Arnold's chest or arms. If you're really eating to grow I bet you'll come to realize your chest and back are just fine. I used to think my chest and back were stubborn, well after I stopped overtraining, ate more, and made sure my form was good (ie. pressing with my chest instead of shoulders, and rowing/pulling with my back and not biceps) it turned out they weren't so bad at all. Focus on your overall all development and eat to grow.
 
I was built very similar to you for most of my life. I made more progress after switching to a max-ot style training. It seems to work well for hardgainers. It basically constists of what the other guys have said, ditch the machines. Do heavy sets of 4-6 only. That is after proper warm up. Don't burn out during warm ups at all. When you get to your working sets, if you can do 7 reps it's not quite heavy enough and if you can't do 4 then it's too heavy.

I gained about 40-50 pounds naturally in 3-4 years working out like that.
 
when i first saw your pic and the 14% BF i was like :jaw: "damn i must be at around 17%" I really dont think at 14% your torso would be that lean. Your chest looks normal if that is what you are asking. if you would like an opinion on your physique then i would say your chest back need to catch up. I think declines help lower chest and dips are good in general so if that is what you are looking to increase(lower chest) then i would go with more decline presses. You will fill out after time and hard work
 
Thanks for the responses so far guys!

The thing is when I bench I can feel my triceps doing most of the work. If I were to go heavy then I would rely even more on my triceps. That's why I decided to switch it up to 8 reps, so I could use lighter weight and try and incorporate my chest more.

Today for my chest routine I'm going to start off with decline bench then go to incline bench, and totally skip flat. Then I'm going to follow it up with some decline fly's and then incline fly's, and then probably some dips. Does this sound ok or should I add/drop something?

I was thinking should I superset pushup's when I bench?

I'm just so sick of not having a nice full chest.
 
Sometime you should try some benches using a smith machine with a very wide grip. I don't think the flys are going to add a lot of size. Some people may disagree, but I don't grow from doing such isolation excercises, just heavy compound movements.
 
axekick said:
Sometime you should try some benches using a smith machine with a very wide grip. I don't think the flys are going to add a lot of size. Some people may disagree, but I don't grow from doing such isolation excercises, just heavy compound movements.
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definately go with a wider grip if you want to use the chest muscles mainly.
 
pistonpump said:
definately go with a wider grip if you want to use the chest muscles mainly.
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How wide are we talkin here? I grip so that my thumbs line up with the little divets. Should I go wider?

And I thought the wider you go the more your shoulders take over?

Today I did incline bench on the smith, followed by some decline bench, then incline fly's and dips. I cut flat bench out completely. I liked how my chest felt after so I think I'm going to eliminate flat bench from my routine for a little while, and just do incline then decline.

Also does anyone know of anymore good compound exercises for chest? The lower, outside corners of my chest need the most work so maybe someone knows something that would help that?
 
Just a suggestion. To take your shoulders and tris out of the press exercises, you can try two things:
One is to pre-exhaust your chest prior to pressing. If you do flys (incline/decline, or flat) before pressing, your chest will already be sressed and will give way before your tris or shoulders during the set of presses. Also, try rolling your shoulders back before your press. I think it is called scapula retraction. Both of these techniques work well.
 
I've tried doing the pre exhaustion method with doin a set of light fly's before I bench, and it just made me rely on my tri's even more. It was one of the worst chest workouts i've ever had.

I've actually thought about doing my tricep routine before my chest routine, so that way my tri's would be fatigued and I'd have to rely on my chest.

Anyone ever try that?
 
I agree with everyone else. You are doing too many shaping exercises.
If you don't already have all of the bulk you need, there is nothing to shape.
You don't necessarily have to add more exercises, you can just add more sets to the ones you do. For example instead of 3 sets of 8 you could do 6 work sets.
Or, you could do 3 or 4 (work) sets of flat bench, 3 sets of inclines and 3 sets of weighted dips. That is more than enough volume for a good chest routine and hits each angle with a compound movement.
Generally speaking, the longer your arms are, the wider your grip needs to be.
 
you sound like you have the exact same problems that i have. on chest days i do a set, or two, of tricep pressdowns at a low weight for like 15 reps to pre-fatigure my triceps. This allows my body to rely on my chest rather than my tri's. Also, do incline bench first, then flat bench and do them both with dumbells. From everything I've heard from the big guys at my gm, reading online, and my experience as someone with your same bodytype, db press is better. In the last three weeks my db sets have gone up over 20lbs. I do three "warm-up" sets with a low-moderate weight, for 10 reps, then i go up some weight for 8 reps, then i do as much weight as possible for 4-6 reps.
For example:
incline db:
set one=45 lb db's for 10 reps
2=50-10
3=55-10
4=65-8
5th set=75-80 for 5 reps

this 10, 10, 10, 8, 5 rep plan has been working really great for my friend and me, so try it out. Good luck.
 
This is the first time I've ever heard of someone pre-fatiguing the smaller muscles to hit the bigger one better. I'm still not sure how that works out really, but if you're triceps and shoulders are doing the work, not the chest, then it sounds like you really need to change your form. Oh and bump on the Scapular Retraction, it really does work well to take your shoulders out and make the chest do the bulk of the work.
 
well the training is one thing, even if hes doing machines he should still be getting more growth.

You are super lean and your waist has got to be sub 30. to me it looks like you simply dont eat enough for optimal growth. what is your diet like?
 
rpen22 said:
This is the first time I've ever heard of someone pre-fatiguing the smaller muscles to hit the bigger one better. I'm still not sure how that works out really, but if you're triceps and shoulders are doing the work, not the chest, then it sounds like you really need to change your form. Oh and bump on the Scapular Retraction, it really does work well to take your shoulders out and make the chest do the bulk of the work.
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more then any advice on form and diet everyone says do what works...well this works regardless of whether or not it makes sense, so try it, it will work...it worked for my friend and it worked for me. Besides, whats the worst that could happen?
 
R_Alan1 said:
more then any advice on form and diet everyone says do what works...well this works regardless of whether or not it makes sense, so try it, it will work...it worked for my friend and it worked for me. Besides, whats the worst that could happen?
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I'm not saying don't do it because it won't work, because it obviously works for you, I was just saying that that was the first I've ever heard of it. Also, it just seems like his form is probably off if he's not feeling his chest working.
 
I have always thought the same as R Alan, fatigue the triceps and you should have more chest work as it will take over the weight that cant be carried by the tris due to fatigue. I think form is the best way. closer works arms more for me (i have long arms) I would agree with jomi too you look so lean you might not be feeding the muscles enough to gain mass.... just by looking your arms are more developed anyway so they will bear most the work on the bench.
 
pistonpump said:
I have always thought the same as R Alan, fatigue the triceps and you should have more chest work as it will take over the weight that cant be carried by the tris due to fatigue. I think form is the best way. closer works arms more for me (i have long arms) I would agree with jomi too you look so lean you might not be feeding the muscles enough to gain mass.... just by looking your arms are more developed anyway so they will bear most the work on the bench.
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Actually this is completely wrong. The BP is a compound movement and in order to overload the Chest you need to utilize all anchillery groups to their fullest. If your tris are prefatigued you will be unable to lock out the heavier weights. If your shoulders are fatigue the whole movement will be affected. Stick with Heavy BP, non prefatigued and other compound movements (SmithMachine=not compound) like squats and DLs, you'll grow.
 
R_Alan1 said:
Besides, whats the worst that could happen?
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Your chest development will suffer greatly because there isn't enough tricep strength to push the type of weight you need to grow a great chest?


Sorry, this is almost rule number one in weightlifting. You don't prefatigue the stabilizer muscles. You prefatigue the muscle to be worked if anything.
 
Basso said:
Actually this is completely wrong. The BP is a compound movement and in order to overload the Chest you need to utilize all anchillery groups to their fullest. If your tris are prefatigued you will be unable to lock out the heavier weights. If your shoulders are fatigue the whole movement will be affected. Stick with Heavy BP, non prefatigued and other compound movements (SmithMachine=not compound) like squats and DLs, you'll grow.
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Thank you. I thought we stopped in insano land where everything is backwards and I wasn't notified.
 
Basso said:
Actually this is completely wrong. The BP is a compound movement and in order to overload the Chest you need to utilize all anchillery groups to their fullest. If your tris are prefatigued you will be unable to lock out the heavier weights. If your shoulders are fatigue the whole movement will be affected. Stick with Heavy BP, non prefatigued and other compound movements (SmithMachine=not compound) like squats and DLs, you'll grow.
Click to expand...

Well actually, you are completely wrong because it works. You can't argue with results. And for someone who weighs 160 or 170 starting out there is no heavy benching. This is simply a way for your chest to catch up with your arms, not a method to you for the rest of your bodybuilding efforts; you do it for 3-4 chest rotations and then you stop because it then becomes a natural motion.
 
Basso said:
Actually this is completely wrong. The BP is a compound movement and in order to overload the Chest you need to utilize all anchillery groups to their fullest. If your tris are prefatigued you will be unable to lock out the heavier weights. If your shoulders are fatigue the whole movement will be affected. Stick with Heavy BP, non prefatigued and other compound movements (SmithMachine=not compound) like squats and DLs, you'll grow.
Click to expand...


I second this. Works for me well. In 3 months I jumped 20pounds on bench alone. Doesnt seem like a lot, but at this rate, I will be very happy in another year. I started the starting strength program after overtraining for nearly a year. I was sick every month, i couldnt grow, and my poundages halted. I am sticking with this program until all my core lifts are in the 300-400 range.
 
Kristofer68SS said:
I second this. Works for me well. In 3 months I jumped 20pounds on bench alone. Doesnt seem like a lot, but at this rate, I will be very happy in another year. I started the starting strength program after overtraining for nearly a year. I was sick every month, i couldnt grow, and my poundages halted. I am sticking with this program until all my core lifts are in the 300-400 range.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that doesn't work, but some people don't start in a situation to even do that so what i am suggesting is a way to get them there. i'm sure once you get past the beginning stages of lifting that will work great but this is strictly to get past a specific problem that a lot people don't understand and haven't experienced. And as someone who has experienced it, gotten past it, and has seen it work for other people nobody can say i'm wrong because results don't lie
 
R_Alan1 said:
Well actually, you are completely wrong because it works. You can't argue with results. And for someone who weighs 160 or 170 starting out there is no heavy benching. This is simply a way for your chest to catch up with your arms, not a method to you for the rest of your bodybuilding efforts; you do it for 3-4 chest rotations and then you stop because it then becomes a natural motion.
Click to expand...

Whatever works for ya!
 
Basso knows. To make muscles grow, you have to lift heavy. Using any technique that limits the weight you can lift is going to also limit the amount of growth you get. It so simple. Not easy, but simple. Lift heavy and eat big. In order to move heavy weights you have to do compound excercises like BP, squats etc. Work on the mass part and the shape will come with it, especialy with someone starting out thin.
 
jjm said:
I've tried doing the pre exhaustion method with doin a set of light fly's before I bench, and it just made me rely on my tri's even more. It was one of the worst chest workouts i've ever had.

I've actually thought about doing my tricep routine before my chest routine, so that way my tri's would be fatigued and I'd have to rely on my chest.

Anyone ever try that?
Click to expand...


If you try it again, and really pre-exhaust the chest, not just one light set of flys, but a complete 4 set workout heavy, you might like the results. You will not be able to move quite as much weight on the BP but the goal is not to move weight but to kick the SH*T out of your chest. Don't rely on your tris, if you can't move any more weight, without using your tris, then you have come to chest absolute failure. That, my friend is the goal. If you have a spotter, even better, let him assist a rep or two and use "just your chest" to move the weight.
Also, from you pics, I agree that you should attempt to up your caloric input.
 
axekick said:
Basso knows. To make muscles grow, you have to lift heavy. Using any technique that limits the weight you can lift is going to also limit the amount of growth you get. It so simple. Not easy, but simple. Lift heavy and eat big. In order to move heavy weights you have to do compound excercises like BP, squats etc. Work on the mass part and the shape will come with it, especialy with someone starting out thin.
Click to expand...


Once again, I concur. I dont say a word to people in the gym. To, be honest I dont want to wait on the squat rack. I just keep doing what I am doing. If they catch on, they catch on. I see the results in the mirror.

I am also a thinner guy, I had to eat and eat to get to this 184 i am at now. If i dont eat and eat, I lose it.
 
Me too. I'm 6'6" and started at 185 lbs. Now through heavy lifting and good clean BULK eating I stay around 230 lbs. Those results are worth paying attention to. I also tend to lose weight pretty fast if I get far below my maintenance calorie levels, but I like eating, so it's not a problem.
 
Kristofer68SS said:
Once again, I concur. I dont say a word to people in the gym. To, be honest I dont want to wait on the squat rack. I just keep doing what I am doing. If they catch on, they catch on. I see the results in the mirror.

I am also a thinner guy, I had to eat and eat to get to this 184 i am at now. If i dont eat and eat, I lose it.
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same here. calories are everything to me and timing them just as important. if i start slacking for one day i will see the diminishing results of that the next day. I tell people that diet is number one, then training(as long as you know what youre doing), then supps. IMO
 
Striate said:
If you try it again, and really pre-exhaust the chest, not just one light set of flys, but a complete 4 set workout heavy, you might like the results. You will not be able to move quite as much weight on the BP but the goal is not to move weight but to kick the SH*T out of your chest. Don't rely on your tris, if you can't move any more weight, without using your tris, then you have come to chest absolute failure. That, my friend is the goal. If you have a spotter, even better, let him assist a rep or two and use "just your chest" to move the weight.
Also, from you pics, I agree that you should attempt to up your caloric input.
Click to expand...

This was my thoughts on that approach too. It will push chest to max failure. But both ways will work, i just have always thought to pre fatigue chest if you want to target it more.
 
Striate said:
If you try it again, and really pre-exhaust the chest, not just one light set of flys, but a complete 4 set workout heavy, you might like the results. You will not be able to move quite as much weight on the BP but the goal is not to move weight but to kick the SH*T out of your chest. Don't rely on your tris, if you can't move any more weight, without using your tris, then you have come to chest absolute failure. That, my friend is the goal. If you have a spotter, even better, let him assist a rep or two and use "just your chest" to move the weight.
Also, from you pics, I agree that you should attempt to up your caloric input.
Click to expand...

I worded my post wrong. I did 3x15 of light fly's. I didn't go heavy. But like I said, once I got to bench I had to rely on my tri's even more to get the weight up. My chest was not the least bit tight afterwards. It was the worst chest workout I've ever had.

I really don't want to waste another chest workout trying the pre exhaustion method, so I think I'll save that as a last ditch effort.

I think I'm going to change up my rep scheme and really focus on trying to use my chest. I want to do 2x8 and then do 2x5 on bench. I'm also thinking of cutting out flat bench for a little while and focusing on incline, decline, fly's and dips. How does that sound?
 
R_Alan1 said:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that doesn't work, but some people don't start in a situation to even do that so what i am suggesting is a way to get them there. i'm sure once you get past the beginning stages of lifting that will work great but this is strictly to get past a specific problem that a lot people don't understand and haven't experienced. And as someone who has experienced it, gotten past it, and has seen it work for other people nobody can say i'm wrong because results don't lie
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Everyone starts out where you are. So, basically we ALL not only understand where you are coming from, but we have all been there and wore out that T-shirt.
When I started lifting (at 18), I weighed 155. In two years I was up to 205 from eating 4 to 5 times a day and working out.
Your method is totally unfounded and will not work. COMPOUND MOVEMENTS.
 
Try cycling your routine between heavier, power lifting style chest training and more hypertrophy-specific training every 3 weeks or so.

For example, a Max-OT style chest routine for the 1st 3 weeks:

Barbell Bench Press:
Set 1: Warmup 15 reps 30% of your 4-6 rep max
Set 2: Warmup 8 reps 50% of your 4-6 rep max
Set 3: Warmup 1 rep 80% of your 4-6 rep max
Set 4: Bench Press, 4-6 reps
Set 5: Bench Press, 4-6 reps
Set 6: Bench Press, 4-6 reps

Incline Dumbell Press:
Set 1: 4-6 reps
Set 2: 4-6 reps

Dips:
Bodyweight x 15
Weighted - 4-6 Reps
Weighted - 4-6 Reps

Maybe some light cardio, then LEAVE THE GYM, and go home and eat. Work chest every 5 days. This will mess up your split a bit but you can deal with it.

Try to add 5- 10lbs every week. This routine has never failed breaking me through a plateau as long as I had the discipline to stick with it. After 3 weeks, you should have gained at least 15-20 lbs on your bench and look noticeably thicker.

For the next 3 weeks, focus on more hypertrophy-specific movements, but keep the core movement heavy, 4-6 reps. An example:

Barbell Bench Press:
Warmup, 15 reps
4-6 reps
4-6 reps
4-6 reps

Then onto TUT-style movements:

Incline DB:
10 reps, 3-1-3 count (1 sec pause at the bottom)
8 reps, 3-1-3 count
8 reps, 3-1-3 count

Decline Bench or Weighted Dips:
10 reps, 3-1-3 count
8 reps, 3-1-3 count
8 reps, 3-1-3 count

Incline Flyes:
12 reps, 3-1-3 count (pause and stretch at the bottom)
10 reps, 3-1-3
8 reps, 3-1-3

Bench Pull Overs
10 reps
10 reps
8 reps

You do this and eat right, your chest will grow. When you do hit a plateau, you can start incorporating shocking techniques like multi-angles, drop sets, fox sets, strip sets, etc, etc, etc.

BV
 
Good advice BigVrunga, I second this advice it's good basics which will give you results it just takes time.
 
I also agree with BigVrunga. You should follow that routine exactly. It will work. After you get some results in your chest, use a similar routine for your legs. That will make you grow.
 
I skimmed through the rest of the posts... but here's my observations.

1) You are NOT 14% bodyfat. I am willing to bet my life that you're not this high bf%... unless your legs look like rolls and rolls of manitee fat. I would put you at 10-11%. I am definitely not as lean as you, but I am at 12.5%.

2) I would use dumbbells instead of barbells for mass... IMO, benching with dumbbells is so much better in general for chest development.

3) I can't believe no one's mentioned this (or I skimmed over it and didn't notice), but you need to make sure you're working your chest when you do compound chest exercises. If you feel soreness in your shoulders/triceps the next day, you probably aren't targetting it enough. Make sure you're using scapular retraction, expanding your chest, and have your alignment correctly... that will ensure that you work your chest. My guess is you're fine, as you look pretty proportional.

4) Consider incline before flat bench
 
NYhomeboy said:
4) Consider incline before flat bench
Click to expand...

that is what he has been doing lately. why do you suggest incline over flat? In a poll i read a while back the most popular exercise for chest mass was incline dumbells....
 
Ok, this thread is starting to get pretty confusing, I'm glad it's not me looking for help! Reading through this thread is like reading BB Mags, all kinds of random ideas thrown at you that totally contradict each other. In the end go with tried and true proven methods, so first lets see what works, do some googles and find pics of PowerLifters preferrably at your weight. Do they have small chests? Do they do DB only or arm preexhaustion w/o's? Hell no, they Bench and they do it flat and heavy.

At the end of the day the Flat Bench Press reigns supreme amoung Chest exercises, Other angles etc are useful but like incline it puts more stress on your shoulders and does not allow you to overload as Flat would. Chest w/o's should be centered around Flat BB (if your looking for size). After all, in order to do a double BW bench press you need a little meat on your chest.
 
BigVrunga said:
Try cycling your routine between heavier, power lifting style chest training and more hypertrophy-specific training every 3 weeks or so.

For example, a Max-OT style chest routine for the 1st 3 weeks:

Barbell Bench Press:
Set 1: Warmup 15 reps 30% of your 4-6 rep max
Set 2: Warmup 8 reps 50% of your 4-6 rep max
Set 3: Warmup 1 rep 80% of your 4-6 rep max
Set 4: Bench Press, 4-6 reps
Set 5: Bench Press, 4-6 reps
Set 6: Bench Press, 4-6 reps

Incline Dumbell Press:
Set 1: 4-6 reps
Set 2: 4-6 reps

Dips:
Bodyweight x 15
Weighted - 4-6 Reps
Weighted - 4-6 Reps

Maybe some light cardio, then LEAVE THE GYM, and go home and eat. Work chest every 5 days. This will mess up your split a bit but you can deal with it.

Try to add 5- 10lbs every week. This routine has never failed breaking me through a plateau as long as I had the discipline to stick with it. After 3 weeks, you should have gained at least 15-20 lbs on your bench and look noticeably thicker.

For the next 3 weeks, focus on more hypertrophy-specific movements, but keep the core movement heavy, 4-6 reps. An example:

Barbell Bench Press:
Warmup, 15 reps
4-6 reps
4-6 reps
4-6 reps

Then onto TUT-style movements:

Incline DB:
10 reps, 3-1-3 count (1 sec pause at the bottom)
8 reps, 3-1-3 count
8 reps, 3-1-3 count

Decline Bench or Weighted Dips:
10 reps, 3-1-3 count
8 reps, 3-1-3 count
8 reps, 3-1-3 count

Incline Flyes:
12 reps, 3-1-3 count (pause and stretch at the bottom)
10 reps, 3-1-3
8 reps, 3-1-3

Bench Pull Overs
10 reps
10 reps
8 reps

You do this and eat right, your chest will grow. When you do hit a plateau, you can start incorporating shocking techniques like multi-angles, drop sets, fox sets, strip sets, etc, etc, etc.

BV
Click to expand...

I think I might actually try this out, but I'm not sure how to work it into my current routine.

I've been thinking of switching my routine for a little while now, as I've been on this one for about 5-6 months now and the gains are coming sort of slow.

I've been thinking of switching to this routine:

Monday:chest and biceps
Tuesday:Legs
Thursday:shoulders and triceps
Saturday:Back

Would it be ok to work that chest workout into this routine? The reason I ask is because you said to work it every 5 days and with this routine I'd be working it every 7 days...

LMK and thanks for the suggestion.
 
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