[R_Alan1]

Originally Posted by Basso

Actually this is completely wrong. The BP is a compound movement and in order to overload the Chest you need to utilize all anchillery groups to their fullest. If your tris are prefatigued you will be unable to lock out the heavier weights. If your shoulders are fatigue the whole movement will be affected. Stick with Heavy BP, non prefatigued and other compound movements (SmithMachine=not compound) like squats and DLs, you'll grow.

Well actually, you are completely wrong because it works. You can't argue with results. And for someone who weighs 160 or 170 starting out there is no heavy benching. This is simply a way for your chest to catch up with your arms, not a method to you for the rest of your bodybuilding efforts; you do it for 3-4 chest rotations and then you stop because it then becomes a natural motion.

[Kristofer68SS]

Originally Posted by Basso

Actually this is completely wrong. The BP is a compound movement and in order to overload the Chest you need to utilize all anchillery groups to their fullest. If your tris are prefatigued you will be unable to lock out the heavier weights. If your shoulders are fatigue the whole movement will be affected. Stick with Heavy BP, non prefatigued and other compound movements (SmithMachine=not compound) like squats and DLs, you'll grow.

I second this. Works for me well. In 3 months I jumped 20pounds on bench alone. Doesnt seem like a lot, but at this rate, I will be very happy in another year. I started the starting strength program after overtraining for nearly a year. I was sick every month, i couldnt grow, and my poundages halted. I am sticking with this program until all my core lifts are in the 300-400 range.

[R_Alan1]

Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS

I second this. Works for me well. In 3 months I jumped 20pounds on bench alone. Doesnt seem like a lot, but at this rate, I will be very happy in another year. I started the starting strength program after overtraining for nearly a year. I was sick every month, i couldnt grow, and my poundages halted. I am sticking with this program until all my core lifts are in the 300-400 range.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that doesn't work, but some people don't start in a situation to even do that so what i am suggesting is a way to get them there. i'm sure once you get past the beginning stages of lifting that will work great but this is strictly to get past a specific problem that a lot people don't understand and haven't experienced. And as someone who has experienced it, gotten past it, and has seen it work for other people nobody can say i'm wrong because results don't lie

[Basso]

Originally Posted by R_Alan1

Well actually, you are completely wrong because it works. You can't argue with results. And for someone who weighs 160 or 170 starting out there is no heavy benching. This is simply a way for your chest to catch up with your arms, not a method to you for the rest of your bodybuilding efforts; you do it for 3-4 chest rotations and then you stop because it then becomes a natural motion.

Whatever works for ya!

[axekick]

Basso knows. To make muscles grow, you have to lift heavy. Using any technique that limits the weight you can lift is going to also limit the amount of growth you get. It so simple. Not easy, but simple. Lift heavy and eat big. In order to move heavy weights you have to do compound excercises like BP, squats etc. Work on the mass part and the shape will come with it, especialy with someone starting out thin.

[Striate]

Originally Posted by jjm

I've tried doing the pre exhaustion method with doin a set of light fly's before I bench, and it just made me rely on my tri's even more. It was one of the worst chest workouts i've ever had.

I've actually thought about doing my tricep routine before my chest routine, so that way my tri's would be fatigued and I'd have to rely on my chest.

Anyone ever try that?

If you try it again, and really pre-exhaust the chest, not just one light set of flys, but a complete 4 set workout heavy, you might like the results. You will not be able to move quite as much weight on the BP but the goal is not to move weight but to kick the SH*T out of your chest. Don't rely on your tris, if you can't move any more weight, without using your tris, then you have come to chest absolute failure. That, my friend is the goal. If you have a spotter, even better, let him assist a rep or two and use "just your chest" to move the weight.
Also, from you pics, I agree that you should attempt to up your caloric input.

[Kristofer68SS]

Originally Posted by axekick

Basso knows. To make muscles grow, you have to lift heavy. Using any technique that limits the weight you can lift is going to also limit the amount of growth you get. It so simple. Not easy, but simple. Lift heavy and eat big. In order to move heavy weights you have to do compound excercises like BP, squats etc. Work on the mass part and the shape will come with it, especialy with someone starting out thin.

Once again, I concur. I dont say a word to people in the gym. To, be honest I dont want to wait on the squat rack. I just keep doing what I am doing. If they catch on, they catch on. I see the results in the mirror.

I am also a thinner guy, I had to eat and eat to get to this 184 i am at now. If i dont eat and eat, I lose it.

[axekick]

Me too. I'm 6'6" and started at 185 lbs. Now through heavy lifting and good clean BULK eating I stay around 230 lbs. Those results are worth paying attention to. I also tend to lose weight pretty fast if I get far below my maintenance calorie levels, but I like eating, so it's not a problem.

[pistonpump]

Originally Posted by Kristofer68SS

Once again, I concur. I dont say a word to people in the gym. To, be honest I dont want to wait on the squat rack. I just keep doing what I am doing. If they catch on, they catch on. I see the results in the mirror.

I am also a thinner guy, I had to eat and eat to get to this 184 i am at now. If i dont eat and eat, I lose it.

same here. calories are everything to me and timing them just as important. if i start slacking for one day i will see the diminishing results of that the next day. I tell people that diet is number one, then training(as long as you know what youre doing), then supps. IMO

[pistonpump]

Originally Posted by Striate

If you try it again, and really pre-exhaust the chest, not just one light set of flys, but a complete 4 set workout heavy, you might like the results. You will not be able to move quite as much weight on the BP but the goal is not to move weight but to kick the SH*T out of your chest. Don't rely on your tris, if you can't move any more weight, without using your tris, then you have come to chest absolute failure. That, my friend is the goal. If you have a spotter, even better, let him assist a rep or two and use "just your chest" to move the weight.
Also, from you pics, I agree that you should attempt to up your caloric input.

This was my thoughts on that approach too. It will push chest to max failure. But both ways will work, i just have always thought to pre fatigue chest if you want to target it more.

[jjm]

Originally Posted by Striate

If you try it again, and really pre-exhaust the chest, not just one light set of flys, but a complete 4 set workout heavy, you might like the results. You will not be able to move quite as much weight on the BP but the goal is not to move weight but to kick the SH*T out of your chest. Don't rely on your tris, if you can't move any more weight, without using your tris, then you have come to chest absolute failure. That, my friend is the goal. If you have a spotter, even better, let him assist a rep or two and use "just your chest" to move the weight.
Also, from you pics, I agree that you should attempt to up your caloric input.

I worded my post wrong. I did 3x15 of light fly's. I didn't go heavy. But like I said, once I got to bench I had to rely on my tri's even more to get the weight up. My chest was not the least bit tight afterwards. It was the worst chest workout I've ever had.

I really don't want to waste another chest workout trying the pre exhaustion method, so I think I'll save that as a last ditch effort.

I think I'm going to change up my rep scheme and really focus on trying to use my chest. I want to do 2x8 and then do 2x5 on bench. I'm also thinking of cutting out flat bench for a little while and focusing on incline, decline, fly's and dips. How does that sound?

[DragonRider]

Originally Posted by R_Alan1

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that doesn't work, but some people don't start in a situation to even do that so what i am suggesting is a way to get them there. i'm sure once you get past the beginning stages of lifting that will work great but this is strictly to get past a specific problem that a lot people don't understand and haven't experienced. And as someone who has experienced it, gotten past it, and has seen it work for other people nobody can say i'm wrong because results don't lie

Everyone starts out where you are. So, basically we ALL not only understand where you are coming from, but we have all been there and wore out that T-shirt.
When I started lifting (at 18), I weighed 155. In two years I was up to 205 from eating 4 to 5 times a day and working out.
Your method is totally unfounded and will not work. COMPOUND MOVEMENTS.

[BigVrunga]

Try cycling your routine between heavier, power lifting style chest training and more hypertrophy-specific training every 3 weeks or so.

For example, a Max-OT style chest routine for the 1st 3 weeks:

Barbell Bench Press:
Set 1: Warmup 15 reps 30% of your 4-6 rep max
Set 2: Warmup 8 reps 50% of your 4-6 rep max
Set 3: Warmup 1 rep 80% of your 4-6 rep max
Set 4: Bench Press, 4-6 reps
Set 5: Bench Press, 4-6 reps
Set 6: Bench Press, 4-6 reps

Incline Dumbell Press:
Set 1: 4-6 reps
Set 2: 4-6 reps

Dips:
Bodyweight x 15
Weighted - 4-6 Reps
Weighted - 4-6 Reps

Maybe some light cardio, then LEAVE THE GYM, and go home and eat. Work chest every 5 days. This will mess up your split a bit but you can deal with it.

Try to add 5- 10lbs every week. This routine has never failed breaking me through a plateau as long as I had the discipline to stick with it. After 3 weeks, you should have gained at least 15-20 lbs on your bench and look noticeably thicker.

For the next 3 weeks, focus on more hypertrophy-specific movements, but keep the core movement heavy, 4-6 reps. An example:

Barbell Bench Press:
Warmup, 15 reps
4-6 reps
4-6 reps
4-6 reps

Then onto TUT-style movements:

Incline DB:
10 reps, 3-1-3 count (1 sec pause at the bottom)
8 reps, 3-1-3 count
8 reps, 3-1-3 count

Decline Bench or Weighted Dips:
10 reps, 3-1-3 count
8 reps, 3-1-3 count
8 reps, 3-1-3 count

Incline Flyes:
12 reps, 3-1-3 count (pause and stretch at the bottom)
10 reps, 3-1-3
8 reps, 3-1-3

Bench Pull Overs
10 reps
10 reps
8 reps

You do this and eat right, your chest will grow. When you do hit a plateau, you can start incorporating shocking techniques like multi-angles, drop sets, fox sets, strip sets, etc, etc, etc.

BV

[Basso]

Good advice BigVrunga, I second this advice it's good basics which will give you results it just takes time.

[axekick]

I also agree with BigVrunga. You should follow that routine exactly. It will work. After you get some results in your chest, use a similar routine for your legs. That will make you grow.

[NYhomeboy]

I skimmed through the rest of the posts... but here's my observations.

1) You are NOT 14% bodyfat. I am willing to bet my life that you're not this high bf%... unless your legs look like rolls and rolls of manitee fat. I would put you at 10-11%. I am definitely not as lean as you, but I am at 12.5%.

2) I would use dumbbells instead of barbells for mass... IMO, benching with dumbbells is so much better in general for chest development.

3) I can't believe no one's mentioned this (or I skimmed over it and didn't notice), but you need to make sure you're working your chest when you do compound chest exercises. If you feel soreness in your shoulders/triceps the next day, you probably aren't targetting it enough. Make sure you're using scapular retraction, expanding your chest, and have your alignment correctly... that will ensure that you work your chest. My guess is you're fine, as you look pretty proportional.

4) Consider incline before flat bench