175lb to 255 in 11months

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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    No offense but I think most of your gains are fat, water and glycogen since this is a lot of what steroid gains are. Sure some muscle there to but I doubt 50%. As you cut and stop the juicing you'll slowly deflate the water and glycogen stores as well. This is assuming you were never over 200 lean lbs previously as this would then be muscle memory. I ran a spawn pulse this fall an it leaned me out. Man you must have been eating everything.
    no offense taken... You can see good gains from midway picture and i doubled those gains since even if they are masked by fat and water retention. Having lost 20lb since that last photo. The muscle gains are very visible and vascularity is starting to form in my arms, another 3 inches off of the waist and ill re post.

    You say you leaned out on Spawn that may be if thats the case im pretty sure you fell short of the strength and muscle gains possible with this compound as much as 15 lean lbs of muscle. This was however not my goal. I planned from day one to bulk for a year straight and then cut for this summer the oral cycles i took were tools i used to blow through plateaus. I look forward to posting updated pictures, its gonna be quite a dramatic recomp and you can not argue with the strength gains, still benching 375.

    I have researched and monitored every step of this process meticulously and have executed. I am right on track for the original plan. Im beginning regretting posting the pics now, maybe i should have waited for memorial day and the recomp. Actually **** it your lack of conviction is just motivating me to go shred some iron... STAY TUNED

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    exactly man just use it all as motivation... say you get shredded and you are bigger than you thought.. then hell it worked...

    say you get shredded and u didn't put on that much muscle... well then now you know how not to do it... i've been at it for 7 years.. . i'm still learning all the ways not to do it and just lookin for MY correct way... because as you know.. what works for some doesn't work for all
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    Quote Originally Posted by tumtum View Post
    exactly man just use it all as motivation... say you get shredded and you are bigger than you thought.. then hell it worked...

    say you get shredded and u didn't put on that much muscle... well then now you know how not to do it... i've been at it for 7 years.. . i'm still learning all the ways not to do it and just lookin for MY correct way... because as you know.. what works for some doesn't work for all
    Down to 230lb minimal loss in strength alas 375lb bench is no more
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    haha yeah you can only hang onto is for so long.. it didn't matter how high i kept my protein.. how slow i took it.. or how hard i tried.. strength left me
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    Quote Originally Posted by tumtum View Post
    haha yeah you can only hang onto is for so long.. it didn't matter how high i kept my protein.. how slow i took it.. or how hard i tried.. strength left me
    yeaa.. that cool tho, just gives me the motivation for a new goal, get back to those lifts but this time on a lean bulk following this cut. Preparation and planning already underway



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    Quote Originally Posted by edwitt View Post
    yeaa.. that cool tho, just gives me the motivation for a new goal, get back to those lifts but this time on a lean bulk following this cut. Preparation and planning already underway



    Actually **** 375 lets set this years goal right now... 405lb bench @ 12% bf or better. Was gonna say 14% but lets set the bar high
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    Cut going well, strength down a little but overall good, joints in my shoulders are bothering me, chest today so lets see how that goes. Any recommendations for joint sups, i already take Animal Flex which i love, stuff really helped out in the summer when i was experiencing real pain
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    Just had strong work out... One more week before we hit the Clen.... Gotta get me some calipers
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwitt View Post
    Just had strong work out... One more week before we hit the Clen.... Gotta get me some calipers
    Another strong workout, in the last week weight has held around 235 but ive lost 3/4 inch off of my waist and all lifts very close to bests. Prob post updated pics at end of the month
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    Awesome progress bro. It is a lot to cut but I don't doubt you have the discipline and dedication to do it. I'm getting ready to start a bulk myself. Good motivation here. The post cut pics should be amazing.
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    Quick updated picture of back only for now, plan is another 35 days of diet saving the best til last


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    how lean are you wanting to get?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tumtum View Post
    how lean are you wanting to get?
    12% im a bit of an old man 42 and really not a big fan of the way 6 -8 % looks on guys my age, but i will evaluate when i hit my goal. Ill prob end up going for 10% see how that looks
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    Looks good. ~10% is a fair goal I'd say. No need to go lower really unless you want to look totally jacked. There is plenty of definition and separation of muscle groups present at ~10%. What is your diet consisting of right now and how many total Kcal are you taking in daily? Just curious. Keep it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathed View Post
    Looks good. ~10% is a fair goal I'd say. No need to go lower really unless you want to look totally jacked. There is plenty of definition and separation of muscle groups present at ~10%. What is your diet consisting of right now and how many total Kcal are you taking in daily? Just curious. Keep it up.
    Keeping the calories high, I have modified and cycling my carbs eating 100% clean and on ECA stack, HIIT cardio 5-6 days a week. So slow and steady maintain the muscle is the approach, in last 7 days weight remained the same but dropped 1/2 in on my waist, very happy with that, strength remains very near highs. Will be cycling clen and the ECA stack for 4 - 6 weeks starting March 1st.

    I dont count calories to much, i keep a mental of my macros in my head. Approx 1.5g prot per LB of target weight @ a 40 40 20 macro over the course of 6 -7 meals. On non my 2 non lifting days carbs go down to about 0.75 - 1g per lb of target weight. Also carbs are loaded around PRE and POST WO @ 80g pre WO and 110 post

    56 days into this cut im down 20lbs but prob up 3 or 4lb muscle mass, bench is the only area to suffer down from 375 to 355 all other lifts remain unchanged. I just started using powerlifting bands, **** i love em, really tricking my muscles out and stimulating some new growth.. LOVE EM
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathed View Post
    Looks good. ~10% is a fair goal I'd say. No need to go lower really unless you want to look totally jacked. There is plenty of definition and separation of muscle groups present at ~10%. What is your diet consisting of right now and how many total Kcal are you taking in daily? Just curious. Keep it up.
    oh and if the retards from yesterday are reading, Libertan01 and co (doubt it, that would require time and use of the search button) i obtained the vast majority of my knowledge from the likes of you and others on this board, nutrition, supps, training, cardio, yes and the use of AAS. Its all here if your prepared to look, knowledge is king well its a close second to cash.

    Great site

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    nice progress man.. that's a pretty good rate to lose weight at.. about a pound every 3 days.. i've been dieting for since the 5th of jan and have only lost around 13.. i've been tryin to take it slow. i lose muscle pretty easily and its very hard for me to put it on...

    my last few weeks of dieting i'll be in ketosis... so far the foods taste A LOT better.
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    gonna need a strong cut, chest grew a ton though
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come AtMe Bro View Post
    gonna need a strong cut, chest grew a ton though
    7"
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    my chest wont get over 44.. i hate my genetics... if there was a way to measure the upper chest.. it would read -20... once again.. i hate my genetics
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    Lookin good man!

    Time for a longer pair of shorts while you're on the beach though! haha jk

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatalFunnel View Post
    Lookin good man!

    Time for a longer pair of shorts while you're on the beach though! haha jk

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    fair comment
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    If I was being entirely forthcoming, and basing this only off the pictures you have posted, I would say you have done this in the most difficult and physiologically taxing way possible. You estimate only 35lbs of that is fat, but I find that difficult to believe: even on a so-called "lean-bulk," one can fairly estimate fat gain to be about 10-15% of total body mass increase (this is assuming lack of DNP/T3/Clen, etc.,). Given the increase in gross-musculature over this same period, the gains in body fat can seem relatively negligible to the eye. Given the extremely visible nature of your fat mass, in conjunction with the fact the general composition and structure of the underlying muscle has not seemed to change (and it would, given 45lbs muscle gain), I would certainly say at least 55-60% of your mass has been a combination of glycogen, water and fat - and this is particularly true when one considers your use of AAS.

    I am nobody's babysitter, nor do I intend to be, but you could have easily gained 40lbs of relatively lean mass by extending your period by six months, using a proper diet, and if you so chose, an appropriate selection of AAS. As it stands now, your overall phase will have extended past that period, put more tax on your body than one ever should, and you will most likely end up with less lean mass.

    In all honesty, however, good luck. I am being entirely serious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    If I was being entirely forthcoming, and basing this only off the pictures you have posted, I would say you have done this in the most difficult and physiologically taxing way possible. You estimate only 35lbs of that is fat, but I find that difficult to believe: even on a so-called "lean-bulk," one can fairly estimate fat gain to be about 10-15% of total body mass increase (this is assuming lack of DNP/T3/Clen, etc.,). Given the increase in gross-musculature over this same period, the gains in body fat can seem relatively negligible to the eye. Given the extremely visible nature of your fat mass, in conjunction with the fact the general composition and structure of the underlying muscle has not seemed to change (and it would, given 45lbs muscle gain), I would certainly say at least 55-60% of your mass has been a combination of glycogen, water and fat - and this is particularly true when one considers your use of AAS.

    I am nobody's babysitter, nor do I intend to be, but you could have easily gained 40lbs of relatively lean mass by extending your period by six months, using a proper diet, and if you so chose, an appropriate selection of AAS. As it stands now, your overall phase will have extended past that period, put more tax on your body than one ever should, and you will most likely end up with less lean mass.

    In all honesty, however, good luck. I am being entirely serious.
    Gonna have to disagree on a couple of levels, firstly whilst i certainly put on plenty of fat the last picture was @ the end of my last cycle and a considerable amount of that was water bloat. Im not that unahappy about the fat gained either as i took a powerlifting approach and in that respect i was entirely happy with a 375lb bench (would never have got there without the extra weight), i did take precautions in that regard had 5 blood tests in that period and monitored my blood pressure. Im currently down 21 lbs from the last pic and estimate another 12 - 15lb will put me in the 12% bf range right about where i started but with added 45lb muscle in 14 months thats 3.24lb per month and at the same got to set some big personal bests along the way. Not quite sure i understand this ref however "this is assuming lack of DNP/T3/Clen, etc.,)" is that a question? anyway cycling Clen/ECA every 2 weeks.

    The photos wont lie just give me another 32 days
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    If I was being entirely forthcoming, and basing this only off the pictures you have posted, I would say you have done this in the most difficult and physiologically taxing way possible. You estimate only 35lbs of that is fat, but I find that difficult to believe: even on a so-called "lean-bulk," one can fairly estimate fat gain to be about 10-15% of total body mass increase (this is assuming lack of DNP/T3/Clen, etc.,). Given the increase in gross-musculature over this same period, the gains in body fat can seem relatively negligible to the eye. Given the extremely visible nature of your fat mass, in conjunction with the fact the general composition and structure of the underlying muscle has not seemed to change (and it would, given 45lbs muscle gain), I would certainly say at least 55-60% of your mass has been a combination of glycogen, water and fat - and this is particularly true when one considers your use of AAS.

    I am nobody's babysitter, nor do I intend to be, but you could have easily gained 40lbs of relatively lean mass by extending your period by six months, using a proper diet, and if you so chose, an appropriate selection of AAS. As it stands now, your overall phase will have extended past that period, put more tax on your body than one ever should, and you will most likely end up with less lean mass.

    In all honesty, however, good luck. I am being entirely serious.
    Also at that time i wanted to stick an Oral PH so that kind of ruled out a 6 month cycle but yes you are right in that regard and that is the route i will go going fwd. It was a fun journey to be honest but not one i would do again, def lean bulk going fwd and have been planning and researching exactly that,
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwitt View Post
    Gonna have to disagree on a couple of levels, firstly whilst i certainly put on plenty of fat the last picture was @ the end of my last cycle and a considerable amount of that was water bloat. Im not that unahappy about the fat gained either as i took a powerlifting approach and in that respect i was entirely happy with a 375lb bench (would never have got there without the extra weight), i did take precautions in that regard had 5 blood tests in that period and monitored my blood pressure. Im currently down 21 lbs from the last pic and estimate another 12 - 15lb will put me in the 12% bf range right about where i started but with added 45lb muscle in 14 months thats 3.24lb per month and at the same got to set some big personal bests along the way. Not quite sure i understand this ref however "this is assuming lack of DNP/T3/Clen, etc.,)" is that a question? anyway cycling Clen/ECA every 2 weeks.

    The photos wont lie just give me another 32 days
    No disrespect intended, here, but a 375lb bench at 255lbs, while respectful, is certainly no justification for anywhere from 35-45lbs of fat, water and glycogen gain - and in reality, that is only a coefficient of 1.47, which is by no means proficient by power lifting standards. And yes, that type of increase would have most certainly been possible in the same time frame without such a precipitous increase in fat mass (using the term to blanket water, glycogen, fat).

    Unfortunately, you are overestimating the amount of LBM you obtained during this period, and grossly underestimating the amount of LBM you will atrophy during your next cutting phase: my estimates include a very high rate of Aldosterone production which most likely resulted from the compounds you used, in addition to the diet you employed, as well as gross glycogen synthesis, which will recede, again due to the compounds you used and the diet you employed. The rate at which you chose to gain mass, and the manner in which you gained it, simply lend themselves to metabolic (and possibly morphological) changes that do not speak to your point. And as harsh as that sounds, it is simply true.

    In an ideal situation, with the choice of appropriate compounds which do not come associated with a high rate of glycogen and/or aldosterone synthesis (Anavar, for example) one could be happy with .8 - 1lb of lean tissue synthesis per week. And again, this is assuming ideal diet, ideal rest, proper choice of compounds. As it stands, given your choice of compounds and diet, I would estimate approximately .4 - .5lb per week, or two pounds per month; leading to a total gain of, at most, around 20lbs. Now, another 10-15lbs of this is a combination of water and glycogen, which I am not counting as fat mass at this time, with the difference obviously being adipose mass. While I am sure these are disappointing figures to hear, they are not up for contention: these are rates of hypertrophy based on ideal rates of protein synthesis and protein turnover in skeletal muscle. If you surpassed these levels, I would suggest you donate your body to science, as your muscle biopsy would surely be of great help in pathologies that contain chronic atrophy.

    This is going to be my last post on the manner, as I am not your moral guide nor your babysitter: it is not my place to judge you, and I certainly do not want to come across as condescending, but rather, I am simply choosing to be real with you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    No disrespect intended, here, but a 375lb bench at 255lbs, while respectful, is certainly no justification for anywhere from 35-45lbs of fat, water and glycogen gain - and in reality, that is only a coefficient of 1.47, which is by no means proficient by power lifting standards. And yes, that type of increase would have most certainly been possible in the same time frame without such a precipitous increase in fat mass (using the term to blanket water, glycogen, fat).

    Unfortunately, you are overestimating the amount of LBM you obtained during this period, and grossly underestimating the amount of LBM you will atrophy during your next cutting phase: my estimates include a very high rate of Aldosterone production which most likely resulted from the compounds you used, in addition to the diet you employed, as well as gross glycogen synthesis, which will recede, again due to the compounds you used and the diet you employed. The rate at which you chose to gain mass, and the manner in which you gained it, simply lend themselves to metabolic (and possibly morphological) changes that do not speak to your point. And as harsh as that sounds, it is simply true.

    In an ideal situation, with the choice of appropriate compounds which do not come associated with a high rate of glycogen and/or aldosterone synthesis (Anavar, for example) one could be happy with .8 - 1lb of lean tissue synthesis per week. And again, this is assuming ideal diet, ideal rest, proper choice of compounds. As it stands, given your choice of compounds and diet, I would estimate approximately .4 - .5lb per week, or two pounds per month; leading to a total gain of, at most, around 20lbs. Now, another 10-15lbs of this is a combination of water and glycogen, which I am not counting as fat mass at this time, with the difference obviously being adipose mass. While I am sure these are disappointing figures to hear, they are not up for contention: these are rates of hypertrophy based on ideal rates of protein synthesis and protein turnover in skeletal muscle. If you surpassed these levels, I would suggest you donate your body to science, as your muscle biopsy would surely be of great help in pathologies that contain chronic atrophy.

    This is going to be my last post on the manner, as I am not your moral guide nor your babysitter: it is not my place to judge you, and I certainly do not want to come across as condescending, but rather, I am simply choosing to be real with you.


    I didnt deem it necessary to divulge, so i say this with due respect as i see you are not new to this rodeo but your passive aggressive stance is somewhat bewildering.

    375 bench @ 255 no miracle for sure BUT given the fact that in April of 08 i was in a car accident that resulted in my being hospitalized in traction for 3 months along with numerous other injuries. I walked in or rather limped in the gym Jan 09 for the 1st time in almost 2 years, i think my bench was 25lb's on each side maybe 35 max lets say 105 total.

    Given your in depth analysis based on 3 pictures i would have thought you would have noticed the scars on my legs. I can repost close ups for your further inspection.

    Maybe you one of those new mind reading doctors that ive being hearing so musch about. You have no idea what my strength or conditioning were before nor did i at any time post my diet supplements or training so your basing your entire prognosis/evaluation or whatever it is based on 3 pictures. I dont really want to get into a fight here but you just dont have the facts and are making lots of assumptions.

    Fact, as of this morning i currently weigh 231lbs @ about 15% bf had buddy at the gym use calipers and strength remains close to highs.

    As i said to the doctor who said ill never walk properly ever again "just wait and see"

    I have to ask to what do you base this comment of "most physiologically taxing way possible" your a psychiatrist too? For your information the whole process was very thereputical to me, i was focused and determied throughout and the setting and schieving of goals helped what was at times a painful process of rehabilitation.

    Not to be condescending or patronizing but my grandma once said "False facts are highly injurious to the progress of science, for they often endure long; but false views, if supported by some evidence, do little harm, for every one takes a salutary pleasure in proving their falseness." Something to do with get your facts straight, clever old granny
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    Quick updated picture just show that im not sitting on the sofa eating pizza all day... Still 30 days to go on the cut

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    crap workout today no energy lifting or cardio, sucked, upside is that im 2/3 of the way there and the planning of my next bulk cycle is well underway. Unfortunately due to injury my shoulders have fallen behind, healthy now and its time to put some size on em
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    good job man.this ppl who say you put on to much fat are the same ppl who cry about being hard gainers they do not get it.there is a reason y most your big bb were once power lifters.i lifted from the time i was 15 untill 30 i was a hard gainer i could not get my arms over 17 in. at 30 i was married with kids put on some fat and keeped lifting more power lifting i would say.arms went to 19 in. ppl would say ya but thats fat and some was.now im in my late 30 and cut back down.arms are at 18.5. your on the right track keep going the hard gainers will still be here whinning
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedlund6 View Post
    good job man.this ppl who say you put on to much fat are the same ppl who cry about being hard gainers they do not get it.there is a reason y most your big bb were once power lifters.i lifted from the time i was 15 untill 30 i was a hard gainer i could not get my arms over 17 in. at 30 i was married with kids put on some fat and keeped lifting more power lifting i would say.arms went to 19 in. ppl would say ya but thats fat and some was.now im in my late 30 and cut back down.arms are at 18.5. your on the right track keep going the hard gainers will still be here whinning
    thx may not be evrybody but it worked for me and im very pleased with the results so far. I am a hard gainer myself and it is for this reason that i adopted this approach, each to their own i say
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    ok lets see if we can kick it up a gear, real lack of energy and focus yesterday. Clen should be arriving tomorrow myabe that and or my upcoming cycle can put a fire in my belly.
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    Nice results keep up the hard work man.
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    Good show man. Your cut is coming along very nicely. You should snap a shot of your back though. Your traps look wide from the front even. I gotta say, your determination gives me motivation bro. Keep rippin' it up. You're doing an amazing job so far imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathed View Post
    Good show man. Your cut is coming along very nicely. You should snap a shot of your back though. Your traps look wide from the front even. I gotta say, your determination gives me motivation bro. Keep rippin' it up. You're doing an amazing job so far imo.
    thanks man... reading up on Clen as i wait for for it to arrive any pointers appreciated
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwitt View Post
    Gonna have to disagree on a couple of levels, firstly whilst i certainly put on plenty of fat the last picture was @ the end of my last cycle and a considerable amount of that was water bloat. Im not that unahappy about the fat gained either as i took a powerlifting approach and in that respect i was entirely happy with a 375lb bench (would never have got there without the extra weight), i did take precautions in that regard had 5 blood tests in that period and monitored my blood pressure. Im currently down 21 lbs from the last pic and estimate another 12 - 15lb will put me in the 12% bf range right about where i started but with added 45lb muscle in 14 months thats 3.24lb per month and at the same got to set some big personal bests along the way. Not quite sure i understand this ref however "this is assuming lack of DNP/T3/Clen, etc.,)" is that a question? anyway cycling Clen/ECA every 2 weeks.

    The photos wont lie just give me another 32 days
    Clen and ephedrine are pretty much gonna activate the same receptors. Alternating them isn't really a good idea because your beta-adrenergic will remain down-regulated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wontstop985 View Post
    Clen and ephedrine are pretty much gonna activate the same receptors. Alternating them isn't really a good idea because your beta-adrenergic will remain down-regulated.
    Not necessarily true. Clen is a potent Beta-2 Adrenergic agonist which cause rapid down-regulation where as Ephedrine works within the sympathetic nervous system and indirectly activates not just the B-2 but beta as well as alpha adrenergic receptors by way of stimulatory effects on noradrenalin release. It is a poor agonist for the B-2 receptor. It is often used in conjunction with a 2 week Clen cycle so you can buy time while your adrenals up-regulate again. Taking an antihistamine like Diphenhydramine will help facilitate the up-regulation. Ketotifen also is another popular choice for this purpose. I will post later tonight about my experience with Clen edwitt. I am going to the gym now but will jump on AM before I finish studying for my exam in the morning, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathed View Post
    Not necessarily true. Clen is a potent Beta-2 Adrenergic agonist which cause rapid down-regulation where as Ephedrine works within the sympathetic nervous system and indirectly activates not just the B-2 but beta as well as alpha adrenergic receptors by way of stimulatory effects on noradrenalin release. It is a poor agonist for the B-2 receptor. It is often used in conjunction with a 2 week Clen cycle so you can buy time while your adrenals up-regulate again. Taking an antihistamine like Diphenhydramine will help facilitate the up-regulation. Ketotifen also is another popular choice for this purpose. I will post later tonight about my experience with Clen edwitt. I am going to the gym now but will jump on AM before I finish studying for my exam in the morning, lol.
    Please...i would definitely appreciate that, just read this protocol http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=269240 its a good read

    this Take 50mg of Benadryl or another antihistamine containing 50mg of diphenhydrmine (sleep ease from boots chemist if you are in UK!) every night during every third week while you are on Clen. So I would dose my Clen as usual and at day 14 I would add the Benadryl every night for 7 nights (while still taking the clen). Discontinue the Benadryl until day 35 and repeat. I favour this method as it helps me sleep and does not affect my performance in the day. I believe we can thank Anthony Roberts for this method.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathed View Post
    Not necessarily true. Clen is a potent Beta-2 Adrenergic agonist which cause rapid down-regulation where as Ephedrine works within the sympathetic nervous system and indirectly activates not just the B-2 but beta as well as alpha adrenergic receptors by way of stimulatory effects on noradrenalin release. It is a poor agonist for the B-2 receptor. It is often used in conjunction with a 2 week Clen cycle so you can buy time while your adrenals up-regulate again. Taking an antihistamine like Diphenhydramine will help facilitate the up-regulation. Ketotifen also is another popular choice for this purpose. I will post later tonight about my experience with Clen edwitt. I am going to the gym now but will jump on AM before I finish studying for my exam in the morning, lol.

    Ive been running the ECA stack for about 6 weeks 5 days on 3 days off guess i should go and get some Benadryl and get on that? Clen prob ariives Friday
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    Physiology has nothing to do with mental, it's more based on biology. It's been a while since I dove into the mystery that is biology but I am almost sure I remember correctly. That being said, it was meant more to mean that you taxed your "body" to an extent which you may or may not have needed to...(i.e. a better way around the mountain than trying to go through it)

    Perhaps you taxed your mental stability as well but that wasn't the direction of that statement above, just saying...


    Incidentally, just what were your numbers on an average visit to the gym before the accident, strength wise that is?
    ---The destruction of my enemies is to make them my friends---
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