ALPHA-2 VS. TT-33

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  1. 3,5-Diiodo-L-thyronine powerfully reduces adiposity in rats by increasing the burning of fats

    "Thyroid hormones (THs), thyroxine (T4) and 3,3',5-triiodo-L-thyronine (T3) are well known to stimulate metabolism while simultaneously lowering metabolic efficiency. "This effect has long been the focus of research into the potential use of THs as drugs to stimulate weight loss. However, the concomitant induction of a thyrotoxic state and of several side effects (i.e., increase in heart rate, increases in thyroid and heart mass, and decrease in skeletal muscle mass and in serum TSH levels) has greatly limited their use as weight-lowering agents. Recent evidence suggests that 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine (T2), a naturally occurring iodothyronine, stimulates metabolic rate via mechanisms involving the mitochondrial apparatus. In addition, T2 can induce metabolic inefficiency, possibly by stimulating energy loss via mechanisms involving mitochondrial proton leakage/redox slippage. Such inefficiency in energy transduction should result in reduced energy storage. In view of these metabolic effects of T2 and the very low affinity of T2 for nuclear T3 receptors, we thought it conceivable that in rats fed a high-fat diet (HFD), long-term treatment with T2 might result in a reduced adiposity and less body weight gain without inducing a clinical syndrome related to the thyrotoxic state."


  2. he we go again
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    he we go again
    Yeah just dismiss the facts.

  4. the fact is-alpha t-2 works. i have been on it for 2 months, and had to readjust my goal. i wanted to get down to 190 but the recomp effect of alpha t-2 has been so good that i am happy to stay at 197-my wife told me not to lose any more weight-nuff said!!!
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  5. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    the fact is-alpha t-2 works. i have been on it for 2 months, and had to readjust my goal. i wanted to get down to 190 but the recomp effect of alpha t-2 has been so good that i am happy to stay at 197-my wife told me not to lose any more weight-nuff said!!!
    yeah man the Recomp effect is AWESOME!!!!!!!

  6. The ingredients that work in Alpha-T2 are the MS and Yohimbine, not the T2. T2 has no effect on TSH because it doesn't work. 3,5 however, does have valid research behind it. Also this talk of suppressing thyroid is nonsense. Suppression from 3,5 will be minimal at best, and even then studies indicate the thyroid will recover quickly.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Xenonex View Post
    The ingredients that work in Alpha-T2 are the MS and Yohimbine, not the T2. T2 has no effect on TSH because it doesn't work. 3,5 however, does have valid research behind it. Also this talk of suppressing thyroid is nonsense. Suppression from 3,5 will be minimal at best, and even then studies indicate the thyroid will recover quickly.
    Take a few capsules of Shift on an empty stomach and see if you still think 3,3 does not work
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by Xenonex View Post
    The ingredients that work in Alpha-T2 are the MS and Yohimbine, not the T2. T2 has no effect on TSH because it doesn't work. 3,5 however, does have valid research behind it. Also this talk of suppressing thyroid is nonsense. Suppression from 3,5 will be minimal at best, and even then studies indicate the thyroid will recover quickly.
    I beg to differ. I have used multiple products (and some of the same ones twice) containing 3,5 just to be sure that the effect I was getting WAS that particular ingredient and not any of the others - all the same: Had the OPPOSITE than intended effect, not to mention made me lethargic as hell, and I went backwards every single time I used such a product. Alpha-T2 on the other hand, works like a charm for me, perfect with my body.

    ~Rosie~
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Chee Scott View Post
    I beg to differ. I have used multiple products (and some of the same ones twice) containing 3,5 just to be sure that the effect I was getting WAS that particular ingredient and not any of the others - all the same: Had the OPPOSITE than intended effect, not to mention made me lethargic as hell, and I went backwards every single time I used such a product. Alpha-T2 on the other hand, works like a charm for me, perfect with my body.

    ~Rosie~
    It 'worked like a charm' because of the MS and yohimbine (both of which are solid ingredients). You can throw around all the anecdotal evidence you wish, but facts remain that 3,3 is ineffective for fat loss.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Xenonex View Post
    It 'worked like a charm' because of the MS and yohimbine (both of which are solid ingredients). You can throw around all the anecdotal evidence you wish, but facts remain that 3,3 is ineffective for fat loss.
    Do you have evidence to support it doesnt work? I dont believe drawing conclusions based on its effect on TSH levels means anything other than precisely that.

    Heres a quote from a study done on reverse t3 and 3,3-t2:

    "These studies suggest that reverse T3 and 3,3′T2 can stimulate thyroid hormone-regulated functions as weak agonists by acting via the same receptors that mediate T3 actions. Moreover, some of the effects of reverse T3 may be due to 3,3′T2 produced by deiodination of reverse T3."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00660-0010.pdf
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by Xenonex View Post
    It 'worked like a charm' because of the MS and yohimbine (both of which are solid ingredients). You can throw around all the anecdotal evidence you wish, but facts remain that 3,3 is ineffective for fat loss.
    You have your opinion and that's fine. As for me, I'll take my personal experience over theory any day of the week, thanks.

    ~Rosie~
    Contact Me for INDIVIDUALIZED TRAINING AND NUTRITION

    "Think like a Champion. Train like a Warrior. Live with a Purpose." - Rosie Chee

  12. Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    Do you have evidence to support it doesnt work? I dont believe drawing conclusions based on its effect on TSH levels means anything other than precisely that.

    Heres a quote from a study done on reverse t3 and 3,3-t2:

    "These studies suggest that reverse T3 and 3,3′T2 can stimulate thyroid hormone-regulated functions as weak agonists by acting via the same receptors that mediate T3 actions. Moreover, some of the effects of reverse T3 may be due to 3,3′T2 produced by deiodination of reverse T3."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00660-0010.pdf
    Refer to PES writeup for Alpha T2. For some reason they included a study that shows that 3,3 doesn't work, whereas 3,5 does. My guess is they are counting on the average consumer not reading it, or reading the part where it says 3,3 had no impact on thyroid. (Aka doesn't work)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Chee Scott View Post
    You have your opinion and that's fine. As for me, I'll take my personal experience over theory any day of the week, thanks.

    ~Rosie~
    Except my 'opinion' is scientific fact. Either way, I'm not here to convince you of anything. The data is out there, but you choose to largely ignore it and go by 'feel.' Unfortunately, placebo is very real and can make even ineffective products give steroid-like results. I.e. ecdy, CEE (check the logs bro logic). I'm not saying Alpha T2 is ineffective, just this ingredient.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Xenonex View Post
    Refer to PES writeup for Alpha T2. For some reason they included a study that shows that 3,3 doesn't work, whereas 3,5 does. My guess is they are counting on the average consumer not reading it, or reading the part where it says 3,3 had no impact on thyroid. (Aka doesn't work)



    Except my 'opinion' is scientific fact. Either way, I'm not here to convince you of anything. The data is out there, but you choose to largely ignore it and go by 'feel.' Unfortunately, placebo is very real and can make even ineffective products give steroid-like results. I.e. ecdy, CEE (check the logs bro logic). I'm not saying Alpha T2 is ineffective, just this ingredient.
    Conflicting studies are conflicting. I'll look for this study later this evening, but just keep in mind I already posted a study that says 3,3 stimulates thyroid regulated functions. Whats your opinion on that?
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by Xenonex View Post
    Except my 'opinion' is scientific fact. Either way, I'm not here to convince you of anything. The data is out there, but you choose to largely ignore it and go by 'feel.' Unfortunately, placebo is very real and can make even ineffective products give steroid-like results. I.e. ecdy, CEE (check the logs bro logic). I'm not saying Alpha T2 is ineffective, just this ingredient.
    As I said, "You have your opinion" and I have mine. Since you're relatively new to the forum some ignorance on your comments regarding me and supplements can be ignored - just be aware next time you tell me that I "go by 'feel'" and talk about "placebo" results; I know my body very, very well (and I HAVE to, period), and certainly do not experience "placebo" effects; not to mention that my body does not respond as it "should" 99% of the time. Also note that "scientific fact" is not true for EVERYone, and just because it was true for one study (or many) or the majority, does not mean that it is for ALL - there are anomalies for EVERYthing, where effects and results are the complete opposite to the "expected", and in most cases, when it comes to anything re nutrition, training, or supplementation, I am one of those anomalies.Next time you start spouting off to a member here about what their experience with products, etc., make sure you know their background - there are a lot of very experienced and knowledgeable trainees here, many whom are like myself and can tell you without hesitation and doubt if something works for them and makes a difference. If you're trying to start an argument or discredit PES, then I suggest that you stop wasting your time - there are always going to be haters, but this is not the place to try and tear apart others.

    ~Rosie~
    Contact Me for INDIVIDUALIZED TRAINING AND NUTRITION

    "Think like a Champion. Train like a Warrior. Live with a Purpose." - Rosie Chee

  15. Sorry if you dont think it works. This topic has been discussed over, and over, and over, chewed up, spit out, and redisccused. Like I said before....try taking a few caps of it on an empty stomach and then make your decision.

    Not depressing TSH does not mean it is not effective.

    Both of the T2 isomers have effects on protein uncoupling and increasing resting metabolism.
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  16. Well first before I say anything, Xenonex....have you tried Alpha-T2 or Shift and had no results above baseline?
    DISCLAIMER: Anything that I post on this forum should not be taken as medical advice. Consult your doctor before starting new diets, supplements, training protocols, and/or if you have any concerns about your health.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Rosie Chee Scott View Post
    As I said, "You have your opinion" and I have mine. Since you're relatively new to the forum some ignorance on your comments regarding me and supplements can be ignored - just be aware next time you tell me that I "go by 'feel'" and talk about "placebo" results; I know my body very, very well (and I HAVE to, period), and certainly do not experience "placebo" effects; not to mention that my body does not respond as it "should" 99% of the time. Also note that "scientific fact" is not true for EVERYone, and just because it was true for one study (or many) or the majority, does not mean that it is for ALL - there are anomalies for EVERYthing, where effects and results are the complete opposite to the "expected", and in most cases, when it comes to anything re nutrition, training, or supplementation, I am one of those anomalies.Next time you start spouting off to a member here about what their experience with products, etc., make sure you know their background - there are a lot of very experienced and knowledgeable trainees here, many whom are like myself and can tell you without hesitation and doubt if something works for them and makes a difference. If you're trying to start an argument or discredit PES, then I suggest that you stop wasting your time - there are always going to be haters, but this is not the place to try and tear apart others.

    ~Rosie~
    Tl;dr

    Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Sorry if you dont think it works. This topic has been discussed over, and over, and over, chewed up, spit out, and redisccused. Like I said before....try taking a few caps of it on an empty stomach and then make your decision.

    Not depressing TSH does not mean it is not effective.

    Both of the T2 isomers have effects on protein uncoupling and increasing resting metabolism.
    I never said that is the only reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoHardOrGoHme View Post
    Well first before I say anything, Xenonex....have you tried Alpha-T2 or Shift and had no results above baseline?
    Yes, I have tried Alpha-T2 and I liked it. It was the only product I could find with methylsynephrine where I could dose it high enough. T2 is still a good product despite the 3,3. MS is a cousin of ephedra and I personally believe it works almost as well dosed properly.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by kahboom View Post
    Could Nattydisaster or a PES rep answer the following? I purchased several bottles of Iforce TT-33. I tried one bottle with no results. There was considerable argument at BB.com regarding its ingredients and effectiveness. I just purchased 2 bottles of Alpha T-2 from Nutra and will use with OEP. Could you address the 3,3 to 3,3, 3,5 diiodo issues, how your product is similar and different from TT-33, and safety issues of both products (i.e, thyroid suppression)? I wish I could get rid of my bottles of TT-33. You want to buy them for testing or something?
    I've tried both & alpha-2 was superior.

  19. then try shift. It's cheap and you can truly see if 3'3 is as ineffective as you believe.

    And hey since you know its safe and does not cause suppression the worst thing that happens is ur out 15 bucks, but you can give an honest review which to many people is priceless.
    DISCLAIMER: Anything that I post on this forum should not be taken as medical advice. Consult your doctor before starting new diets, supplements, training protocols, and/or if you have any concerns about your health.

  20. Alpha T2 kept me from gaining weight in the times my diet was spotty.
    And when I was really on point, the effects increased.
    And when I added Shift at night, helped me to slim down pretty quick.

    Other than DNP(lol) or Crack there is no supplement that will magically do anything.
    Not referring to you OP but a lot of people forget the meaning of supplement. Something extra to add to what is already there.
    Which are the two complementary factors of training and diet.

    Plus different things work or do not work for different people depending on many factors.
    And one can find opposing studies on many different compounds.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Xenonex View Post
    The ingredients that work in Alpha-T2 are the MS and Yohimbine, not the T2. T2 has no effect on TSH because it doesn't work. 3,5 however, does have valid research behind it. Also this talk of suppressing thyroid is nonsense. Suppression from 3,5 will be minimal at best, and even then studies indicate the thyroid will recover quickly.
    I could not disagree more. I have used both, and found little to no response from 3,5. While on the same diet, 3,3 was far more effective. ALos, please do not tell me that it was the other ingredients in AT2, as I saw much of the results from Shift.

    Now let me say this, I think the beauty of this discussion is that it can be subjective. What works for some does not necessarily work as well on others. That right there is the beauty of genetics.

  22. AE has valid points and I suspect that the timing of your dosing could have interfered with achieving maximum results. Because T2 is such a small measurable dose (micrograms), it's best to be taken without food or drink besides water because it will bind to those things leaving you with nothing absorbed since it is processed with the food/drink. T2 is an e****lent product, has that extra kick than shift but you can definitely FEEL the T2.
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