ALPHA-2 VS. TT-33

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by niCe99 View Post
    Very intrigued

    Thoughts on Alpha-T2 stacked with a mild dose of EC?

    (ie 2x e(24mg) & c(200mg) with full dose of Alpha-T2)
    pretty much what i am running-i honestly believe that for me at least results will be better on oep/AT-2 than AT-2/eca.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID


  2. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    pretty much what i am running-i honestly believe that for me at least results will be better on oep/AT-2 than AT-2/eca.
    interesting

    i have some EC left over and might as well stack it with this

    have you had any problems with your heart running with this? what i mean is did you feel any irregular heat beats occur?

    the reason i asked was because i stacked tt-33 with eca mildly (same as above) and i would get these chest pains near my heart.

    Needless to say, i dropped the stacked and used the individually...situation resolved...although i may not venture again in to thyroidals with EC.

    Scary stuff
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by niCe99 View Post
    interesting

    i have some EC left over and might as well stack it with this

    have you had any problems with your heart running with this? what i mean is did you feel any irregular heat beats occur?

    the reason i asked was because i stacked tt-33 with eca mildly (same as above) and i would get these chest pains near my heart.

    Needless to say, i dropped the stacked and used the individually...situation resolved...although i may not venture again in to thyroidals with EC.

    Scary stuff
    everyone is different, but i don't get sides like that from eca at any dose-worse side i get is dry/cotton mouth.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  4. Can you use 4 AT2 a day

    Thinking 2 am 1 afternoon and 1 just before bed

    THoughts ?

    Thanks

  5. Quote Originally Posted by dollar662 View Post
    Can you use 4 AT2 a day

    Thinking 2 am 1 afternoon and 1 just before bed

    THoughts ?

    Thanks
    yes! but start at 1/1 or 2/1 at the beginning-believe me you will feel it.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    yes! but start at 1/1 or 2/1 at the beginning-believe me you will feel it.
    Great thanks!

  7. Quote Originally Posted by dollar662 View Post
    Can you use 4 AT2 a day

    Thinking 2 am 1 afternoon and 1 just before bed

    THoughts ?

    Thanks
    1 BEFORE BED???? bud this has stimulants TT-33 yes you can but Alpha-T2 not

  8. Quote Originally Posted by niCe99 View Post
    interesting

    i have some EC left over and might as well stack it with this

    have you had any problems with your heart running with this? what i mean is did you feel any irregular heat beats occur?

    the reason i asked was because i stacked tt-33 with eca mildly (same as above) and i would get these chest pains near my heart.

    Needless to say, i dropped the stacked and used the individually...situation resolved...although i may not venture again in to thyroidals with EC.

    Scary stuff
    This is relativity i use ECA @ FULL THROTTLE without mercy (75mg E/600mg C) plus 4 caps of TT-33 NO SIDES then i test with ALPHA-T2 NO SIDES but the energy on ALPHA-T2 is like amphetamine Hell Yeah pretty SWEET!



  9. I will test ALPHA-T2 @ 6 caps a day so be prepared.........

  10. damn thats insane.

    i would honestly be too scared for that..

    i will be logging Alpha-T2 in a months time or so

  11. Quote Originally Posted by niCe99 View Post
    Very intrigued

    Thoughts on Alpha-T2 stacked with a mild dose of EC?

    (ie 2x e(24mg) & c(200mg) with full dose of Alpha-T2)
    Would be very, very potent with outstanding results
    HIGH VOLUME - Supreme Stim-Free Nitric Oxide Matrix
    SELECT Protein
    - Ultra-Premium Blend
    ALPHAMINE - Thermogenics...Redefined

  12. Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    I will test ALPHA-T2 @ 6 caps a day so be prepared.........
    Let us know!
    HIGH VOLUME - Supreme Stim-Free Nitric Oxide Matrix
    SELECT Protein
    - Ultra-Premium Blend
    ALPHAMINE - Thermogenics...Redefined

  13. Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    I will test ALPHA-T2 @ 6 caps a day so be prepared.........
    i would love to see what 4 AT-2 + 2 oep pre-workout would be like. i am on last week of AT-2 and have upped the dose to 2/2 with absolutely no bad sides-unless you count a flood of sweat.

    i am taking a week off AT-2 when bottle is empty then going to stack it with oep.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  14. Quote Originally Posted by kahboom View Post
    Could Nattydisaster or a PES rep answer the following? I purchased several bottles of Iforce TT-33. I tried one bottle with no results. There was considerable argument at BB.com regarding its ingredients and effectiveness. I just purchased 2 bottles of Alpha T-2 from Nutra and will use with OEP. Could you address the 3,3 to 3,3, 3,5 diiodo issues, how your product is similar and different from TT-33, and safety issues of both products (i.e, thyroid suppression)? I wish I could get rid of my bottles of TT-33. You want to buy them for testing or something?
    3,3-T2 has little to no evidence of activity. Even the write up of Alpha-T2 erroneously uses a study that supports 3,5-T2 and NOT 3,3-T2. It's true 3,3 doesn't suppress TSH, but that's likely related to its lack of activity.

    This doesn't mean that Alpha-T2 won't cause weight loss. The use of methyl-synephrine is likely to cause some thermogenesis and or appetite reduction.

    Personally, I would use 3,5-T2 only if I couldn't get real T3. T3's effects are so well known and suppression of TSH is not a serious concern.

  15. i missed out i guess,,,so lets go at it again please...

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9651103

    Life Sci. 1998;62(26):2369-77.

    Effect of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine on thyroid stimulating hormone and growth hormone serum levels in hypothyroid rats.
    Moreno M, Lombardi A, Lombardi P, Goglia F, Lanni A.

    Dipartimento di Chimica, FacoltÓ di Scienze, UniversitÓ degli Studi di Salerno, Italy.

    Abstract
    We have investigated the biological effects of physiological doses of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine (3,5-T2) and 3,3'-diiodo-L-thyronine (3,3'-T2) (at doses from 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW) on serum TSH and GH levels in rats made hypothyroid by propylthiouracil and iopanoic acid administration. In such animals deiodinase activities were inhibited and thyroid hormones serum levels strongly reduced. The effects of T2s were compared with those elicited by 3,5,3'-triiodo-L-thyronine (T3) (2.5 microg/100 g BW).The serum TSH level was much greater in hypothyroid rats than in euthyroid ones. T3 administration suppressed TSH by 88% compared to control (i.e, the level in hypothyroid rats); it thus reached a value not significantly different from that seen in the euthyroid rats. 3,5-T2 produced a similar effect, suppressing the TSH level by about 75% compared to control; it thus reached values not significantly different from those of the euthyroid and T3-treated rats. By contrast, 3,3'-T2 had no effect on TSH, whatever the dose. The serum GH level was much lower in hypothyroid rats than in euthyroid ones. T3 administration increased the GH level by about 5-fold, restoring it to the value seen in euthyroid rats. 3,5-T2-treated hypothyroid rats, at all the doses used (from 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW), showed increased serum GH levels: at a dose of 10 microg/100 g BW the level reached a value about 5-fold higher than that in hypothyroid rats. This value was not significantly different from those of euthyroid and T3-treated rats. 3,3'-T2 did not affect GH levels whatever the dose. Thus, 3,5-T2 (but not 3,3'-T2) seems to mimic the effects of T3 on serum TSH and GH levels in rats.
    PMID: 9651103 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    okay so you have a compound thats supposed to work on metabolic rate but you are saying that wont lower TSH?

    thats like saying i have a compound taht will work on androgenic receptor and wont shut you down, lowering LH/FSH,,,,sounds too good.

    i would use 3,5 version and compensate lowered TSH and it will rise to normal, so same as coming off T3,,,taper off, and careful with diet during thryoid 'pct' or take stimulants then or something,,,,i see using 3,5's benefit is that it is OTC, if anybody is selling them still

    now i would like to see a study or two showing 3,3' diiodo doing samething to RMR like 3,5 or 3,5,3 because i was unable to find one. Im not saying other folks with good results arent bs'ng i just want to see how it differs other than what ive seen is that 3,3 is non thyromimetic.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by comacho View Post
    i missed out i guess,,,so lets go at it again please...

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9651103

    Life Sci. 1998;62(26):2369-77.

    Effect of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine on thyroid stimulating hormone and growth hormone serum levels in hypothyroid rats.
    Moreno M, Lombardi A, Lombardi P, Goglia F, Lanni A.

    Dipartimento di Chimica, FacoltÓ di Scienze, UniversitÓ degli Studi di Salerno, Italy.

    Abstract
    We have investigated the biological effects of physiological doses of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine (3,5-T2) and 3,3'-diiodo-L-thyronine (3,3'-T2) (at doses from 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW) on serum TSH and GH levels in rats made hypothyroid by propylthiouracil and iopanoic acid administration. In such animals deiodinase activities were inhibited and thyroid hormones serum levels strongly reduced. The effects of T2s were compared with those elicited by 3,5,3'-triiodo-L-thyronine (T3) (2.5 microg/100 g BW).The serum TSH level was much greater in hypothyroid rats than in euthyroid ones. T3 administration suppressed TSH by 88% compared to control (i.e, the level in hypothyroid rats); it thus reached a value not significantly different from that seen in the euthyroid rats. 3,5-T2 produced a similar effect, suppressing the TSH level by about 75% compared to control; it thus reached values not significantly different from those of the euthyroid and T3-treated rats. By contrast, 3,3'-T2 had no effect on TSH, whatever the dose. The serum GH level was much lower in hypothyroid rats than in euthyroid ones. T3 administration increased the GH level by about 5-fold, restoring it to the value seen in euthyroid rats. 3,5-T2-treated hypothyroid rats, at all the doses used (from 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW), showed increased serum GH levels: at a dose of 10 microg/100 g BW the level reached a value about 5-fold higher than that in hypothyroid rats. This value was not significantly different from those of euthyroid and T3-treated rats. 3,3'-T2 did not affect GH levels whatever the dose. Thus, 3,5-T2 (but not 3,3'-T2) seems to mimic the effects of T3 on serum TSH and GH levels in rats.
    PMID: 9651103 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    okay so you have a compound thats supposed to work on metabolic rate but you are saying that wont lower TSH?

    thats like saying i have a compound taht will work on androgenic receptor and wont shut you down, lowering LH/FSH,,,,sounds too good.

    i would use 3,5 version and compensate lowered TSH and it will rise to normal, so same as coming off T3,,,taper off, and careful with diet during thryoid 'pct' or take stimulants then or something,,,,i see using 3,5's benefit is that it is OTC, if anybody is selling them still

    now i would like to see a study or two showing 3,3' diiodo doing samething to RMR like 3,5 or 3,5,3 because i was unable to find one. Im not saying other folks with good results arent bs'ng i just want to see how it differs other than what ive seen is that 3,3 is non thyromimetic.

    There is ONE study that I found from several years back that showed 3,3-T2 to increase caloric expenditure, but no study since then supports this claim. Moreno is one of the primary researchers on these compounds and in a recent review of iodothyronines, they state that 3,3-T2 had no effect on metabolic rate, whereas 3,5-T2 does.

    If 3,3-T2 DID have metabolic effects, then it and not 3,5-T2 would be the compound one would expect researchers to investigate, since it doesn't affect TSH levels. The lack of interest in this compound points to the fact that it doesn't increase RMR.

  17. well said micro2k,

    like i said it would be a gold mine or something, for diet and medical aspect.

    ying/yang balance....cant go around that homeostasis.

  18. this thread is beginning to remind me of the recent arginine thread, where some of the studies suggested it is 'worthless'.


    but it is the studies that are 'worthless' when real world experiences prove them wrong. take a look at the review section and see what the real world looks like. ALPHA T-2 is kicking asss in the reviews-and don't try to blow it off as methyl-synephrine as the only cause for such positive results.

    i recently finished a bottle of ALPHA T-2 and plan on using another bottle real soon. very good supplement!!!
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  19. WOW!! I was just looking on NP. Thinking of ordering Alpha T-2 or TT-33. Saw the stack AT-2/Lean Xtreme. Thinking of doing this with OEP, Recompadrol, DCP, Eviscerate, Chromium Picolinate,...Carbs between 100-150 gms/day. After reading some forums it sound like TT-33 is getting it's ass kicked be Alpha T-2. Any suggestions on "The Stack" or my upcoming "Stack" would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    this thread is beginning to remind me of the recent arginine thread, where some of the studies suggested it is 'worthless'.


    but it is the studies that are 'worthless' when real world experiences prove them wrong. take a look at the review section and see what the real world looks like. ALPHA T-2 is kicking asss in the reviews-and don't try to blow it off as methyl-synephrine as the only cause for such positive results.

    i recently finished a bottle of ALPHA T-2 and plan on using another bottle real soon. very good supplement!!!
    By this logic, then the makers can't use any research to support their claims either, can they?

    And there is no reason why methyl-synephrine can't be the effective component of this product. Weight loss occurs with ephedrine, yohimbine, clenbuterol, albuterol, etc. and none of these contain any thyromimetic component.

  21. Just because no study since then supports the claim does not make the claim false. In that study they were basing metabolic rate off of TSH shutdown. Metabolic rate has more factors than just TSH. Just because researchers did not further investigate 3,3-T2 does not mean that it did not have metabolic effects.

    For the past 3-4 years numerous users have taken 3,3-T2 alone, with no other compounds, and have felt significant effects at doses around 150mcg 2-3x per day.

    But beyond this one compound, Alpha-T2 also contains 2 other extremely effective compounds, Methyl-synephrine and Rauwolscine HCl which should not be overlooked. No single ingredient in Alpha-T2 is more or less important than another.
    HIGH VOLUME - Supreme Stim-Free Nitric Oxide Matrix
    SELECT Protein
    - Ultra-Premium Blend
    ALPHAMINE - Thermogenics...Redefined

  22. Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    Just because no study since then supports the claim does not make the claim false. In that study they were basing metabolic rate off of TSH shutdown.
    No they were not. They were looking for thyromimetic effects of diiodothyronines. 3,5-T2 showed efficacy, whereas 3,3-T2 did not.

    Metabolic rate has more factors than just TSH. Just because researchers did not further investigate 3,3-T2 does not mean that it did not have metabolic effects.
    One of the studies referenced in the product write up "Metabolic Effects of Thyroid Hormone Derivatives" the authors state that 3,3-T2 did not affect RMR.

    For the past 3-4 years numerous users have taken 3,3-T2 alone, with no other compounds, and have felt significant effects at doses around 150mcg 2-3x per day.
    What other products contains only 3,3-T2? The ones I am familiar with are a combination of 3,3 and 3,5, or are modified thyromimetics, like diprop and triprop.

    But beyond this one compound, Alpha-T2 also contains 2 other extremely effective compounds, Methyl-synephrine and Rauwolscine HCl which should not be overlooked. No single ingredient in Alpha-T2 is more or less important than another.
    And, IMO, this is the product's saving grace. I believe it would have been better if 3,3 was substituted with 3,5.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by micro2000 View Post
    No they were not. They were looking for thyromimetic effects of diiodothyronines. 3,5-T2 showed efficacy, whereas 3,3-T2 did not.

    What other products contains only 3,3-T2? The ones I am familiar with are a combination of 3,3 and 3,5, or are modified thyromimetics, like diprop and triprop.

    And, IMO, this is the product's saving grace. I believe it would have been better if 3,3 was substituted with 3,5.
    Like i said, in terms of TSH and GH... "Thus, 3,5-T2 (but not 3,3′-T2) seems to mimic the effects of T3 on serum TSH and GH levels in rats."

    I am not going to have a study argument on here. Everyone knows that they never end up with any said conclusion. Everyone has their opinions and has the right to stick to them.

    A few years back you could buy bulk 3,3-T2 capsules from a few bulk supplement companies. Users get effects from 3,3-T2 alone, regardless of what 1-2 studies you have read do or do not say.

    We chose the 3,3-T2 over 3,5-T2 because we did not want a suppressive supplement. IMO the fact that 3,5-T2 mimics T3 in terms of TSH is awful.

    I have been a member of plenty of boards, such as AM back in the day, where there were T3 users running logs posting results all the time. I cannot tell you how many times users would run T3 and lose 15lbs and 4 weeks after stopping their cycle gain 20lbs due to TSH shutdown.

    We did not want a product that would let users lose some weight while taking it but then gain it back when they stopped. That is not our idea of a useful supplement.

    The other two ingredients are much much more than a "saving grace". They all compliment each other towards one common goal...losing fat. This product has already proven to help users reach their fat burning goals.
    HIGH VOLUME - Supreme Stim-Free Nitric Oxide Matrix
    SELECT Protein
    - Ultra-Premium Blend
    ALPHAMINE - Thermogenics...Redefined

  24. Quote Originally Posted by micro2000 View Post
    By this logic, then the makers can't use any research to support their claims either, can they?

    And there is no reason why methyl-synephrine can't be the effective component of this product. Weight loss occurs with ephedrine, yohimbine, clenbuterol, albuterol, etc. and none of these contain any thyromimetic component.
    you make it sound as though i have never used a weight loss product before-you name it, more than likely i have tried it. i am telling you the effects i got were not the normal effects i have gotten from ephedrine/yohimbe or methyl synephrine containing products.

    i highly recommend ALPHA T-2 to anyone on a cut/recomp or lean bulk.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  25. Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    A few years back you could buy bulk 3,3-T2 capsules from a few bulk supplement companies.
    Who?? What companies sold straight 3,3-T2?

  26. BIOTEST!!!!!!! T-2 Pro. Still sold up here in Canada.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by legalizejuice View Post
    BIOTEST!!!!!!! T-2 Pro. Still sold up here in Canada.
    It contains 3,5-T2.

  28. You are correct sir! My bad!

  29. Now 3,3 is suppose to cause little to no suppression correct? Therefore does the stack with Lean Xtreme prevent any suppression and all you reap are the fat burning benefits?

    If that is the case one should not put on any weight after the cut due to suppression correct?
    DISCLAIMER: Anything that I post on this forum should not be taken as medical advice. Consult your doctor before starting new diets, supplements, training protocols, and/or if you have any concerns about your health.

  30. I'll be stacking Alpha-T2 with Dermacrine-LV for some recomping. I don't care to lose weight. My goal is to shed fat without losing muscle. I'm a bit sensitive to stims so I was worried about throwing OEP in the mix as well.
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