ALPHA-2 VS. TT-33

[kahboom]

Could Nattydisaster or a PES rep answer the following? I purchased several bottles of Iforce TT-33. I tried one bottle with no results. There was considerable argument at BB.com regarding its ingredients and effectiveness. I just purchased 2 bottles of Alpha T-2 from Nutra and will use with OEP. Could you address the 3,3 to 3,3, 3,5 diiodo issues, how your product is similar and different from TT-33, and safety issues of both products (i.e, thyroid suppression)? I wish I could get rid of my bottles of TT-33. You want to buy them for testing or something?

 

[nattydisaster]

Could Nattydisaster or a PES rep answer the following? I purchased several bottles of Iforce TT-33. I tried one bottle with no results. There was considerable argument at BB.com regarding its ingredients and effectiveness. I just purchased 2 bottles of Alpha T-2 from Nutra and will use with OEP. Could you address the 3,3 to 3,3, 3,5 diiodo issues, how your product is similar and different from TT-33, and safety issues of both products (i.e, thyroid suppression)? I wish I could get rid of my bottles of TT-33. You want to buy them for testing or something?

I saw the thread on bb.com, but have no comments on that...

Our product only contains 3,3. This will NOT cause any thyroid suppression. The 3,5 will cause thyroid suppression.

We have no had a single user report "no results" with our product.

The safety concerns of supplments with the 3,5 is thryoud suppression, where that is not a concern in Alpha-T2.

It's not JUST a thyroid boosting supplement -- its much more!

It also has methyl-synephrine, which is sort of like ephedrine. Ephedrine acts on the beta-2-adrenergic receptor, where-as methyl-synephrine works on the beta-3-adrenergic receptor.

The beta-2 receptor is primarily used in cardiac control. Both the beta-2 and beta-3 receptors are used by the sympathetic nervous system to activate the breakdown of fat stores for energy and increasing your resting metabolism.

So get all the benefits of beta-adrenergic fat loss, without the side effects caused from the B2 receptors!

Also it contains Rauwolscine HCl, aka Alpha-Yohimbine. This is the most superior form of yohimbine available, with greatly reduced sides.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

 

[johnnyjuice]

I have used tt-33 and it worked better then clen or anything else i have tried,and if it did not work for you,you must have been doing something wrong.your diet or training must be wrong.There is no magic pill out there that is going to make the fat drop off you.you have to get your diet on point and workout.

 

[nattydisaster]

I have used tt-33 and it worked better then clen or anything else i have tried,and if it did not work for you,you must have been doing something wrong.your diet or training must be wrong.There is no magic pill out there that is going to make the fat drop off you.you have to get your diet on point and workout.

Have you tried alpha-T2?

 

[kahboom]

I have used tt-33 and it worked better then clen or anything else i have tried,and if it did not work for you,you must have been doing something wrong.your diet or training must be wrong.There is no magic pill out there that is going to make the fat drop off you.you have to get your diet on point and workout.

How can you say i must have done something wrong?? Thats a pretty bold statement not knowing me. TT-33 has numerous threads questioning the product, whats in it, and how it works. You can not find logs and reviews that are very favorable. Show me the logs and reviews of this product that are favorable?? You cant find them. I have also observed several posts where people said the product did nothing for them. I guess we all fail. I will report back on Alpha T-2, I have already seen more success early on in this product than T-33, that has been out how long?

Natty, if 3,5 causes suppression, wouldn't you want a product to increase your thyroid activity, not suppress it?

 

[JayBombah]

I have used tt-33 and it worked better then clen or anything else i have tried,and if it did not work for you,you must have been doing something wrong.your diet or training must be wrong.There is no magic pill out there that is going to make the fat drop off you.you have to get your diet on point and workout.

Just cause it worked for you doesn't mean it'll work for others. And there is a magic pill that will make fat drop off you, it's called DNP. It will also make you drop an arm and a leg, and maybe your liver and kidneys too. One slip and it's over.

Anyways, Alpha T-2 is much safer than TT-33/Clen in the long run.

 

[johnnyjuice]

Have you tried alpha-T2?

no not yet,but i want to try it.It look's real good.

 

[MAxximal]

here we go again...

 

[MAxximal]

Could Nattydisaster or a PES rep answer the following? I purchased several bottles of Iforce TT-33. I tried one bottle with no results. There was considerable argument at BB.com regarding its ingredients and effectiveness. I just purchased 2 bottles of Alpha T-2 from Nutra and will use with OEP. Could you address the 3,3 to 3,3, 3,5 diiodo issues, how your product is similar and different from TT-33, and safety issues of both products (i.e, thyroid suppression)? I wish I could get rid of my bottles of TT-33. You want to buy them for testing or something?

Please tell what is your diet?

 

[MAxximal]

T2 - The Fat Terminator?
By Dr. John M Berardi, Ph.D.

Fat Termination

It's no secret that summer is right around the corner. Over the last week or so the weather has decided to show a few glimpses of what's to come, namely warm sun streaming down upon exposed arms, legs, chests, and other miscellaneous body parts that have been cloaked all winter long. You've gotta love this time of year, if for nothing more that the virtual "orgiastic feast for the senses" (as Cosmo Kramer would put it).
But as always, with the good comes the bad. And in most cases, that layer of body fat that has infiltrated the lean physiques most possessed last summer represents the bad. So as summer approaches thousands everywhere are looking for a quick and easy solution to dropping the fat and, as some of my students would say, "get their rip on". They want to quickly and efficiently terminate the fat.
Obviously exercise and nutritional intake are the major determinants of fat loss but few will argue that nutritional supplements can help in the termination of high levels of body fat by either increasing metabolic rate or maintaining metabolic rate while dieting, preserving lean tissue during dieting, and suppressing food intake. When we think of legal, over the counter fat loss supplements, obviously supplements like the ECA stack come to mind. However, many individuals have even tried to shed fat using several prescription medications like the thyroid hormones T3 and T4. For you chem. buffs, T3 is the compound 3,5,3'-triiodo-l-thyronine or just triiodothyronine while T4 is 3,5,3',5' Tetraiodothyronine or just thyroxine.


Thyroid Hormones

Although thyroid hormones are necessary for promoting normal developmental growth, don't confuse this with the muscle growth that occurs with resistance exercise. In addition thyroid hormones are involved in dozens of biological processes including:
- Increased oxygen consumption (metabolic rate)
- Increased thermogenesis (heat production)
- Increased number of beta adrenergic receptors in the heart, skeletal
muscle, adipose tissues, and lymphocytes (these receptors bind fat
mobilizing hormones)
- Increased sensitivity to catecholamines (fat mobilizing, fight or
flight hormones)
- Increased number of red blood cells and increased oxygen delivery
- Increased lypolysis
- Increased liver glycogen breakdown
- Increased liver glucose production
- Increased intestinal glucose absorption
- Increased protein turnover
- Decreased cholesterol levels
From looking over this list, it appears that thyroid hormones do some pretty exciting things in the body, all of which can be beneficial to weight trainers. But before I move on, I want to talk about some of the other effects of thyroid hormones that may not be so ideal for weight trainers.
- Increased heart rate and heart contractility
- Increased free radical production (due to decreased Superoxide
Dismutase concentrations)
- Increased GI motility
- Increased bone turnover (and potentially bone loss or high levels of
calcium in the blood)
- Increased cortisol levels
- Increased sex hormone binding globulin

How's The Thyroid Working?

Now that you've seen what thyroid hormones can do, let's talk about thyroid function. Much like any other hormone system there are tight controls regulating thyroid function. So under most normal circumstances, if thyroid concentrations are low in the blood then the thyroid is stimulated to produce more hormone. And if they are high in the blood, the thyroid will be inhibited and less will be produced. Of course there are a few exceptions to these rules. Disease states, prescription medication use, and interestingly, dieting can throw off this equilibrium. While most people don't have thyroid disorders or use meds that can alter thyroid function, most people do diet at some point in their lives. And during dieting, natural thyroid production is usually suppressed and this can eventually harm fat loss efforts.
Enter thyroid drugs. Some people, in an attempt to harness the fat burning powers of thyroid hormones, are taking T3 or T4 with or without dieting in order to either maintain normal thyroid hormone levels or in order to simply burn more fat than they would have been burning otherwise. However this use comes at a price. You see, too much thyroid hormone in the body can lead to a thyrotoxic state. Side effects of thyrotoxicosis include heart palpitations, nervousness, easy fatiguability, diarrhea, excessive sweating, heat intolerance, and tachycardia. Small to moderate doses of thyroid hormones, however will probably not lead to thyrotoxicosis.
In addition to the risk of thyrotoxicosis, both hormones are very suppressive of thyroid function and it appears that with extended use of these compounds, the thyroid is sluggish in restarting natural production (Vagenakis, et al., New England Journal of Medicine, 293(14): 681-684, 1975). In fact, in this study population, it took between 5-9 weeks for thyroid production to return to normal after suppression therapy. This has pretty dramatic consequences since during this period of thyroid suppression, metabolic rate will be much lower and there is good potential for fat gain.
So with the prescription drugs T3 or T4, the potential benefits of their use must be weighed against the after effects during the thyroid-suppressed period.


In the past, T2 was thought to be inactive, but many recent papers have shown T2 to have some pretty dramatic effects on metabolic processes. One issue of concern in the interpretation of this data is the fact most of these studies used hypothyroid rats that are producing very little thyroid hormone on their own. Therefore since these studies did not examine the effects of adding T2 into a normal thyroidal environment, they may not be totally applicable to individuals with normal thyroid functioning. In any case, the studies are certainly worth mentioning.
- Significant increases in mitochondrial respiration and cytochrome
oxidase activity were found both in vitro and in vivo (1). These
increases lead to an increase in metabolic rate. Interestingly, these
effects are different from those of T3 and T4 due to the fact that T2
acts directly on the mitochondrial respiration while T3 and T4 must
first increase oxidative enzyme levels. This means that T2 has a much
more rapid stimulation of metabolic rate (1 hour for T2 vs 24 hours
for T3). Some authors have concluded that T2 may be beneficial in
rapid energy requiring situations like cold exposure or overfeeding
(2).
- Significant increases in resting metabolic rate (33%) were found
(1,3). Both T2 and T3 were able to stimulate the recovery of
metabolic rate to normal, euthyroid levels.
- Significant increases in the oxidative capacity of skeletal muscle,
brown adipose tissue, liver, and the heart were found (1,4). Both T2
and T3 promoted full recovery of oxidative capacity but T2 was most
active in the liver and the muscle while T3 was most active in the
liver.
- Significant increases in the liver activities of glucose-6-phosphate
dehydrogenase and malic enzyme were found (5,6). These enzymes are
necessary for fat metabolism.
- Significant increases in GH release were found. Both T2 and T3
increased GH release 5-fold (7).
- In the one human study I found, T2 Significantly increased oxygen
consumption in blood cells in vitro (8).
In most of the studies listed above, the doses of T2 required for physiological and biochemical effects to manifest were larger than the doses of T3 required. This is due to the fact that T2 has a lower receptor affinity for most thyroid hormone receptors than does T3.
So from these data, if the dose is right, T2 supplementation may offer most of the same benefits as T3 but might even be superior in rapidly stimulating metabolic rate. This could come in handy before a big Easter dinner or your weekly dietary cheat day.

 

[johnnyjuice]

Just cause it worked for you doesn't mean it'll work for others. And there is a magic pill that will make fat drop off you, it's called DNP. It will also make you drop an arm and a leg, and maybe your liver and kidneys too. One slip and it's over.

Anyways, Alpha T-2 is much safer than TT-33/Clen in the long run.

(quote)kahboom

How can you say i must have done something wrong?? Thats a pretty bold statement not knowing me. TT-33 has numerous threads questioning the product, whats in it, and how it works. You can not find logs and reviews that are very favorable. Show me the logs and reviews of this product that are favorable?? You cant find them. I have also observed several posts where people said the product did nothing for them. I guess we all fail. I will report back on Alpha T-2, I have already seen more success early on in this product than T-33, that has been out how long?
Natty, if 3,5 causes suppression, wouldn't you want a product to increase your thyroid activity, not suppress it?



To Answer both of you.......
Ok first off,I have not seen any reports that are legit that tt-33 does not work,i read a lot of b.s. As far as DNP goes,i have not tried it,So i cant say anything about that.As far as suppression goes on tt-33 I have not had any and do not know of anyone that has.I am i not saying that it can not happen and will not supress you.yes i think you should do a pct for a cycle of it and there is a chance that there could be suppression.I use 7keto and kelp for a month after the tt-33 cycle.It is better to be safe then sorry.As far as Clen goes,Yes Clen has it sides and you can overdose on it, but that is why you cant walk in to a store and buy it like Alpha t-2,so comparing it to alpha t-2, is just dumb!One more thing if you don't diet and workout any of these pills are not going to help you.I am not saying you are not working out or dieting,you might have things off a little.

 

[johnnyjuice]

here we go again...

yep,here we go again

 

[johnnyjuice]

Please tell what is your diet?

Yes i agree Maxximal, what is you diet like?

 

[MAxximal]

Maybe include much carbs or another stuff the best diet for this stuff IMO is Targeted Ketogenic Diet (TKD) and remember this stuff has anticatabolic properties you can do cardio like a crazy and the stuff can preserve muscle but NOT FAT well until you weight the same amount in one month of run not necessary you don’t loose weight but FAT YES.

This stuff accelerate the protein broken down ok when eat enough carbs your body hold more “liquid” for preserve the stores of “energy” (carbs) if you eat A TON of these your body can accelerate your protein breakdown and in one month of run you say damn I not loose weight but wait I look more lean and defined?? Why is this possible and I drop 2-4% BODY FAT.


ALL IS YOUR DIET!!!!


P.S.

the protein in our food or supplements are broken down into their constituent amino acids that are in turn absorbed by the blood capillaries and transported to the liver. The amino acids are then synthesized into proteins or stored as fat or glycogen for energy

take one gallon of water drop some crystal light and 25-30g of BCAA and drink thru the day stick with this one month and you believe.

And if you can maintain your body in THERMOGENIC state 8-12 hours BINGO!!!!!

Flawless Victory!!!!

 

[nattydisaster]

How can you say i must have done something wrong?? Thats a pretty bold statement not knowing me. TT-33 has numerous threads questioning the product, whats in it, and how it works. You can not find logs and reviews that are very favorable. Show me the logs and reviews of this product that are favorable?? You cant find them. I have also observed several posts where people said the product did nothing for them. I guess we all fail. I will report back on Alpha T-2, I have already seen more success early on in this product than T-33, that has been out how long?

Natty, if 3,5 causes suppression, wouldn't you want a product to increase your thyroid activity, not suppress it?

It increases thyroid activity, but suppresses your bodies natural thyroid function. So when your stop taking it, your thyroid is suppressed, and the opposite will happen. That is why we did not use 3,5 in our product.

Let us know how you like the Alpha-T2

 

[nattydisaster]

Just cause it worked for you doesn't mean it'll work for others. And there is a magic pill that will make fat drop off you, it's called DNP. It will also make you drop an arm and a leg, and maybe your liver and kidneys too. One slip and it's over.

Anyways, Alpha T-2 is much safer than TT-33/Clen in the long run.

hahaha...i'd love to drop some kidneys

 

[MAxximal]

Hell yeahh @ 4caps a day simply and easy Flawless Victory......FATALITY

 

[r6lift]

Hell yeahh @ 4caps a day simply and easy Flawless Victory......FATALITY

dnp?

and @ 4 caps of what? t-3 or t-2? wouldn't want my kidneys to drop.

 

[nattydisaster]

dnp?

and @ 4 caps of what? t-3 or t-2? wouldn't want my kidneys to drop.

The kidney comment was towards dnp...it's not a dietary supplement.

He was referring to 4 caps of alpha-t2 per day

 

[MAxximal]

The kidney comment was towards dnp...it's not a dietary supplement.

He was referring to 4 caps of alpha-t2 per day

Natty Rocks!!!:AR15firing:

 

[nattydisaster]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to MAxximal again.

 

[thebigt]

hey, natty. i have been on AT-2 for around 2 weeks and really dig it-lost 4lbs but mirror says more. my question is-can you run 2 bottles consecutively? and if so would i need the 7 keto/kelp [pct]?

sorry that is 2 q's, lol.

 

[nattydisaster]

Hahaha...yup you can run for up to 8 weeks, and no PCT will be required. Glad you're liking it!

 

[thebigt]

Hahaha...yup you can run for up to 8 weeks, and no PCT will be required. Glad you're liking it!

very much, a different approach than the regular line up of fatburners i have been using. the weight loss has not been dramatic-but the recomp effect has been!!! the mirror has been very kind to me lately, lol.

 

[r6lift]

quick ques. can i substitute my morning dose of 2caps T-2 in d afternoon and 1cap morning?

 

[nattydisaster]

quick ques. can i substitute my morning dose of 2caps T-2 in d afternoon and 1cap morning?

Yup

 

[Guest]

very much, a different approach than the regular line up of fatburners i have been using. the weight loss has not been dramatic-but the recomp effect has been!!! the mirror has been very kind to me lately, lol.

I rather recomp then lose weight on the scale unless you are dropping weight drastically for a fight sport...

Our goal is always less fat more muscle.

I've have not reccomended a supplement in a long time but stacked with OxyElite Pro you literally wake up every morning looking leaner. Seeing progress every day just gives more motivation to continue the quest. It shouldn't be this easy...of course with diet and exercise in check.

Its a pretty dam liberating because your appetite is suppressed and your mood is high with the combo....no more self defeating battles just a mind focused on progress.

 

[MAxximal]

I rather recomp then lose weight on the scale unless you are dropping weight drastically for a fight sport...

Our goal is always less fat more muscle.

I've have not reccomended a supplement in a long time but stacked with OxyElite Pro you literally wake up every morning looking leaner. Seeing progress every day just gives more motivation to continue the quest. It shouldn't be this easy...of course with diet and exercise in check.

Its a pretty dam liberating because your appetite is suppressed and your mood is high with the combo....no more self defeating battles just a mind focused on progress.

Sweet!

 

[thebigt]

I rather recomp then lose weight on the scale unless you are dropping weight drastically for a fight sport...

Our goal is always less fat more muscle.

I've have not reccomended a supplement in a long time but stacked with OxyElite Pro you literally wake up every morning looking leaner. Seeing progress every day just gives more motivation to continue the quest. It shouldn't be this easy...of course with diet and exercise in check.

Its a pretty dam liberating because your appetite is suppressed and your mood is high with the combo....no more self defeating battles just a mind focused on progress.

age and arthritis might also play a role in your equation, lol. but no, i am not arguing your point. i am very happy with my results, and i plan on buying the get up and go stack and running oep/AT-2 together. i had fantastic results on oep and can't wait to run these products together.

 

[niCe99]

Very intrigued

Thoughts on Alpha-T2 stacked with a mild dose of EC?

(ie 2x e(24mg) & c(200mg) with full dose of Alpha-T2)

 

[thebigt]

Very intrigued

Thoughts on Alpha-T2 stacked with a mild dose of EC?

(ie 2x e(24mg) & c(200mg) with full dose of Alpha-T2)

pretty much what i am running-i honestly believe that for me at least results will be better on oep/AT-2 than AT-2/eca.

 

[niCe99]

pretty much what i am running-i honestly believe that for me at least results will be better on oep/AT-2 than AT-2/eca.

interesting

i have some EC left over and might as well stack it with this

have you had any problems with your heart running with this? what i mean is did you feel any irregular heat beats occur?

the reason i asked was because i stacked tt-33 with eca mildly (same as above) and i would get these chest pains near my heart.

Needless to say, i dropped the stacked and used the individually...situation resolved...although i may not venture again in to thyroidals with EC.

Scary stuff

 

[thebigt]

interesting

i have some EC left over and might as well stack it with this

have you had any problems with your heart running with this? what i mean is did you feel any irregular heat beats occur?

the reason i asked was because i stacked tt-33 with eca mildly (same as above) and i would get these chest pains near my heart.

Needless to say, i dropped the stacked and used the individually...situation resolved...although i may not venture again in to thyroidals with EC.

Scary stuff

everyone is different, but i don't get sides like that from eca at any dose-worse side i get is dry/cotton mouth.

 

[dollar662]

Can you use 4 AT2 a day

Thinking 2 am 1 afternoon and 1 just before bed

THoughts ?

Thanks

 

[thebigt]

Can you use 4 AT2 a day

Thinking 2 am 1 afternoon and 1 just before bed

THoughts ?

Thanks

yes! but start at 1/1 or 2/1 at the beginning-believe me you will feel it.

 

[dollar662]

yes! but start at 1/1 or 2/1 at the beginning-believe me you will feel it.

Great thanks!

 

[MAxximal]

Can you use 4 AT2 a day

Thinking 2 am 1 afternoon and 1 just before bed

THoughts ?

Thanks

1 BEFORE BED???? bud this has stimulants TT-33 yes you can but Alpha-T2 not

 

[MAxximal]

interesting

i have some EC left over and might as well stack it with this

have you had any problems with your heart running with this? what i mean is did you feel any irregular heat beats occur?

the reason i asked was because i stacked tt-33 with eca mildly (same as above) and i would get these chest pains near my heart.

Needless to say, i dropped the stacked and used the individually...situation resolved...although i may not venture again in to thyroidals with EC.

Scary stuff

This is relativity i use ECA @ FULL THROTTLE without mercy (75mg E/600mg C) plus 4 caps of TT-33 NO SIDES then i test with ALPHA-T2 NO SIDES but the energy on ALPHA-T2 is like amphetamine Hell Yeah pretty SWEET!

:type:
:biglaugh:

 

[MAxximal]

I will test ALPHA-T2 @ 6 caps a day so be prepared.........

 

[niCe99]

damn thats insane.

i would honestly be too scared for that..

i will be logging Alpha-T2 in a months time or so

 

[nattydisaster]

Very intrigued

Thoughts on Alpha-T2 stacked with a mild dose of EC?

(ie 2x e(24mg) & c(200mg) with full dose of Alpha-T2)

Would be very, very potent with outstanding results

 

[nattydisaster]

I will test ALPHA-T2 @ 6 caps a day so be prepared.........

Let us know!

 

[thebigt]

I will test ALPHA-T2 @ 6 caps a day so be prepared.........

i would love to see what 4 AT-2 + 2 oep pre-workout would be like. i am on last week of AT-2 and have upped the dose to 2/2 with absolutely no bad sides-unless you count a flood of sweat.

i am taking a week off AT-2 when bottle is empty then going to stack it with oep.

 

[micro2000]

Could Nattydisaster or a PES rep answer the following? I purchased several bottles of Iforce TT-33. I tried one bottle with no results. There was considerable argument at BB.com regarding its ingredients and effectiveness. I just purchased 2 bottles of Alpha T-2 from Nutra and will use with OEP. Could you address the 3,3 to 3,3, 3,5 diiodo issues, how your product is similar and different from TT-33, and safety issues of both products (i.e, thyroid suppression)? I wish I could get rid of my bottles of TT-33. You want to buy them for testing or something?

3,3-T2 has little to no evidence of activity. Even the write up of Alpha-T2 erroneously uses a study that supports 3,5-T2 and NOT 3,3-T2. It's true 3,3 doesn't suppress TSH, but that's likely related to its lack of activity.

This doesn't mean that Alpha-T2 won't cause weight loss. The use of methyl-synephrine is likely to cause some thermogenesis and or appetite reduction.

Personally, I would use 3,5-T2 only if I couldn't get real T3. T3's effects are so well known and suppression of TSH is not a serious concern.

 

[comacho]

i missed out i guess,,,so lets go at it again please...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9651103

Life Sci. 1998;62(26):2369-77.

Effect of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine on thyroid stimulating hormone and growth hormone serum levels in hypothyroid rats.
Moreno M, Lombardi A, Lombardi P, Goglia F, Lanni A.

Dipartimento di Chimica, Facoltà di Scienze, Università degli Studi di Salerno, Italy.

Abstract
We have investigated the biological effects of physiological doses of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine (3,5-T2) and 3,3'-diiodo-L-thyronine (3,3'-T2) (at doses from 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW) on serum TSH and GH levels in rats made hypothyroid by propylthiouracil and iopanoic acid administration. In such animals deiodinase activities were inhibited and thyroid hormones serum levels strongly reduced. The effects of T2s were compared with those elicited by 3,5,3'-triiodo-L-thyronine (T3) (2.5 microg/100 g BW).The serum TSH level was much greater in hypothyroid rats than in euthyroid ones. T3 administration suppressed TSH by 88% compared to control (i.e, the level in hypothyroid rats); it thus reached a value not significantly different from that seen in the euthyroid rats. 3,5-T2 produced a similar effect, suppressing the TSH level by about 75% compared to control; it thus reached values not significantly different from those of the euthyroid and T3-treated rats. By contrast, 3,3'-T2 had no effect on TSH, whatever the dose. The serum GH level was much lower in hypothyroid rats than in euthyroid ones. T3 administration increased the GH level by about 5-fold, restoring it to the value seen in euthyroid rats. 3,5-T2-treated hypothyroid rats, at all the doses used (from 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW), showed increased serum GH levels: at a dose of 10 microg/100 g BW the level reached a value about 5-fold higher than that in hypothyroid rats. This value was not significantly different from those of euthyroid and T3-treated rats. 3,3'-T2 did not affect GH levels whatever the dose. Thus, 3,5-T2 (but not 3,3'-T2) seems to mimic the effects of T3 on serum TSH and GH levels in rats.
PMID: 9651103 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

okay so you have a compound thats supposed to work on metabolic rate but you are saying that wont lower TSH?

thats like saying i have a compound taht will work on androgenic receptor and wont shut you down, lowering LH/FSH,,,,sounds too good.

i would use 3,5 version and compensate lowered TSH and it will rise to normal, so same as coming off T3,,,taper off, and careful with diet during thryoid 'pct' or take stimulants then or something,,,,i see using 3,5's benefit is that it is OTC, if anybody is selling them still

now i would like to see a study or two showing 3,3' diiodo doing samething to RMR like 3,5 or 3,5,3 because i was unable to find one. Im not saying other folks with good results arent bs'ng i just want to see how it differs other than what ive seen is that 3,3 is non thyromimetic.

 

[micro2000]

i missed out i guess,,,so lets go at it again please...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9651103

Life Sci. 1998;62(26):2369-77.

Effect of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine on thyroid stimulating hormone and growth hormone serum levels in hypothyroid rats.
Moreno M, Lombardi A, Lombardi P, Goglia F, Lanni A.

Dipartimento di Chimica, Facoltà di Scienze, Università degli Studi di Salerno, Italy.

Abstract
We have investigated the biological effects of physiological doses of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine (3,5-T2) and 3,3'-diiodo-L-thyronine (3,3'-T2) (at doses from 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW) on serum TSH and GH levels in rats made hypothyroid by propylthiouracil and iopanoic acid administration. In such animals deiodinase activities were inhibited and thyroid hormones serum levels strongly reduced. The effects of T2s were compared with those elicited by 3,5,3'-triiodo-L-thyronine (T3) (2.5 microg/100 g BW).The serum TSH level was much greater in hypothyroid rats than in euthyroid ones. T3 administration suppressed TSH by 88% compared to control (i.e, the level in hypothyroid rats); it thus reached a value not significantly different from that seen in the euthyroid rats. 3,5-T2 produced a similar effect, suppressing the TSH level by about 75% compared to control; it thus reached values not significantly different from those of the euthyroid and T3-treated rats. By contrast, 3,3'-T2 had no effect on TSH, whatever the dose. The serum GH level was much lower in hypothyroid rats than in euthyroid ones. T3 administration increased the GH level by about 5-fold, restoring it to the value seen in euthyroid rats. 3,5-T2-treated hypothyroid rats, at all the doses used (from 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW), showed increased serum GH levels: at a dose of 10 microg/100 g BW the level reached a value about 5-fold higher than that in hypothyroid rats. This value was not significantly different from those of euthyroid and T3-treated rats. 3,3'-T2 did not affect GH levels whatever the dose. Thus, 3,5-T2 (but not 3,3'-T2) seems to mimic the effects of T3 on serum TSH and GH levels in rats.
PMID: 9651103 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

okay so you have a compound thats supposed to work on metabolic rate but you are saying that wont lower TSH?

thats like saying i have a compound taht will work on androgenic receptor and wont shut you down, lowering LH/FSH,,,,sounds too good.

i would use 3,5 version and compensate lowered TSH and it will rise to normal, so same as coming off T3,,,taper off, and careful with diet during thryoid 'pct' or take stimulants then or something,,,,i see using 3,5's benefit is that it is OTC, if anybody is selling them still

now i would like to see a study or two showing 3,3' diiodo doing samething to RMR like 3,5 or 3,5,3 because i was unable to find one. Im not saying other folks with good results arent bs'ng i just want to see how it differs other than what ive seen is that 3,3 is non thyromimetic.

There is ONE study that I found from several years back that showed 3,3-T2 to increase caloric expenditure, but no study since then supports this claim. Moreno is one of the primary researchers on these compounds and in a recent review of iodothyronines, they state that 3,3-T2 had no effect on metabolic rate, whereas 3,5-T2 does.

If 3,3-T2 DID have metabolic effects, then it and not 3,5-T2 would be the compound one would expect researchers to investigate, since it doesn't affect TSH levels. The lack of interest in this compound points to the fact that it doesn't increase RMR.

 

[comacho]

well said micro2k,

like i said it would be a gold mine or something, for diet and medical aspect.

ying/yang balance....cant go around that homeostasis.

 

[thebigt]

this thread is beginning to remind me of the recent arginine thread, where some of the studies suggested it is 'worthless'.


but it is the studies that are 'worthless' when real world experiences prove them wrong. take a look at the review section and see what the real world looks like. ALPHA T-2 is kicking asss in the reviews-and don't try to blow it off as methyl-synephrine as the only cause for such positive results.

i recently finished a bottle of ALPHA T-2 and plan on using another bottle real soon. very good supplement!!!

 

[legalizejuice]

WOW!! I was just looking on NP. Thinking of ordering Alpha T-2 or TT-33. Saw the stack AT-2/Lean Xtreme. Thinking of doing this with OEP, Recompadrol, DCP, Eviscerate, Chromium Picolinate,...Carbs between 100-150 gms/day. After reading some forums it sound like TT-33 is getting it's ass kicked be Alpha T-2. Any suggestions on "The Stack" or my upcoming "Stack" would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

 

[micro2000]

this thread is beginning to remind me of the recent arginine thread, where some of the studies suggested it is 'worthless'.


but it is the studies that are 'worthless' when real world experiences prove them wrong. take a look at the review section and see what the real world looks like. ALPHA T-2 is kicking asss in the reviews-and don't try to blow it off as methyl-synephrine as the only cause for such positive results.

i recently finished a bottle of ALPHA T-2 and plan on using another bottle real soon. very good supplement!!!

By this logic, then the makers can't use any research to support their claims either, can they?

And there is no reason why methyl-synephrine can't be the effective component of this product. Weight loss occurs with ephedrine, yohimbine, clenbuterol, albuterol, etc. and none of these contain any thyromimetic component.