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  1. Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    I believe they believe because it's OTC that it's not the same when in reality most are active steroids just like Dbol, Winstrol and Anavar.
    Yup. I am always surprised over this as well. Most prohormones are actually designer steroids

    Now as for your concern over androgens effects on lipids ..

    We pretty much know AAS use decreases HDL (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/4033402/) but what is less clear is the why/how this happens (because of increased androgen levels, increased liver enzymes, decreased E2 or some sort of combo) and if methylated ones have a greater effect because of the strain placed on the liver.

    We also dont know if this HDL reduction is actually indicative of an increased risk. Considering androgens increase the activity of HTGL(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4033402) and HTGL activity is protective (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7853704) So quite possibly despite the HDL particle reduction resulting from androgen use, the protective activity of some of the HDL fractions is still present.

    and as for hepatotoxicity

    Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated?

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  2. Quote Originally Posted by EatMoar View Post
    But I actually do have a question. If its injected it still have to pass through the liver correct? And orals are just inactive forms of a steroid until metabolized into the liver? What is the percentage it turns into its active steroid compound , I'm assuming its product specific.

    Proper PCT and diet will keep gains along with intensity in the gym.
    Oral steroids are absorbed from the GI tract and then pass through the liver before entering the blood. Most oral steroids are chemically modified (to prevent rapid breakdown) by the addition of a group of molecules at the alpha position of the number 17 carbon atom (alkylation) As a result of this, these C-17 alkylated steroids have a greater affect on your liver (makes it impossible to oxidize the 17b-ol which is believed to be the culprit behind liver damage)

    Injectable steroids are absorbed directly into the blood stream without a first pass through the liver although, there are a few injectable C-17 alkylated steroids that will have a similar hepatic affect as oral ones but the majority of injectable steroids only undergo esterification in the liver.

    Most orals will have an intrinsic anabolic value to them (are active steroids without need of conversion or before any conversion) and the percent that actually converts is pretty much unknown and can vary from product to product

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  3. Quote Originally Posted by Jackbronson68 View Post
    Hey guys (and girls) am running an 8 week, taper up/down of legit dbol w/ winny tabs.
    Heres the beef: 20mg x 2..weeks 1-2, 20 mg.x3 (60 total) week 3-5, then 20 x 2 week 6 & finally 30 mg winny & 20 dbol weeks 7 & 8..
    My gains are solid as I run TUDCA all through cycle & liver values perfect..Also take Nolva from week 4 (20mg ed) & 2 weeks PCT.

    I know some of you real monsters are going to pin me for not pinning but I have sticker shock! Also I am over 40 &
    at 6'1 240 ish I dont need more size...any ADVICE ON ORALS & COMBINING IS APPRECIATED.

    I also substitute Anavar for the winny from time to time...am off cycle for 6 weeks & back on for 8.
    OP, Your posts are hard to understand. I just assumed English is not your native language (not an insult at all).

    Btw, your math is wrong (also not an insult). 2 apples a day for 2 weeks is 28 apples. 3 apples a day for 3 weeks is 63 apples. I don't know where you got 60 from. Are you trying to say that you take 3 per day, for 20 days? Or, are you pointing out that three 20mg pills would be 60mg total? When you portray your self like this, it makes you look stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackbronson68 View Post
    . . . If you want to comment,criticize,confirm feel free but when you :train right (I use Bpaks MI40) & kai s training & eat clean ,I sell supps so thats all 100% & I am conservative enough with the orals & frequency that I am content with the steady gains in strength & size that has been acheived over last 4 years. . .
    ^again I am having a hard time following you.

    If you sound like a idiot, you will get flamed. Sorry, this be the internetz.

    I wish you the best of luck. I would agree that if you are afraid of needles, transdermals would be a good avenue to explore.
    AM sucks ass. find me on ASF or IMF.

  4. There is better oral cycles like tbol and anavar, or just tbol which we yield leaner dryer gains....

  5. Quote Originally Posted by canipin2x View Post
    There is better oral cycles like tbol and anavar, or just tbol which we yield leaner dryer gains....
    Var is good for a first cycle, nice and mild and not much shut down. I plan to run var soon.


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