4 WEEK BLAST CYCLE!! Test P/Tren A/TNE/Dbol/Anadrol

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Warwarrior

    Ok, sounds fun Obviously you don't mind pinning, lol! Eager to see how it goes, good luck man!
    No problem man I will pin myself all over. Military taught me to have no fear of needles after I did a combat livesaver course. I had to IV myself in each arm... it was sick lol
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice


  2. This will not doubt ruffle many feathers. I left out details like HCG, SERMs, AIs, etc because it gets too complicated. I kept it simple for my behalf, not yours.

    Let’s start with the widely held belief that esters and half lives work this way: The half life of testosterone cypionate is around 12 days. This means that 12 days from your last shot of 1000mg of testosterone cypionate, your blood levels of testosterone cypionate will contain 500mg of the steroid. Another 12 days from then, i.e. 24 days from last dose, your blood levels will contain 250mg of the steroid. This amount then keeps halving every 12 days. At 48 days (almost 2 months) from your last dose, your blood levels will still contain 67.5mg of testosterone cypionate.


    This is what everyone will tell you, for the most part, but it makes no sense. Esterification of an injectable anabolic/androgenic steroid basically accomplishes one thing, it slows the release of the parent steroid from the site of injection. This happens because the ester will notably lower the water solubility of the steroid, and increase its lipid solubility. This will cause the drug to form a deposit in the muscle tissue, from which it will slowly enter into circulation as it is picked up in small quantities by the blood.

    Let’s stay with our example. When you inject 1000mgs it forms a depot, a deposit. It’s critical that the deposit remain in a cluster to protect the release of the core molecules over time. If the depot is the size of a marble (just for illustration purposes) and the size is half of a marble in 12 days, it will not take another 12 days to cut that in half, or reduce it to 500. Logically it should take half the time because you have half the size, so the next half life should be 6 days with 250 remaining. Then the next half life should be three days, not a series of half lives with 12, equal day intervals. Plus as the deposit remains in your system, it is slowly breached and cannot hold a solid, impermeable barrier around itself. Your body starts to break it down as soon as it enters your body.

    Now you could say that following my logic, if you inject only 500mgs, then the half life should be 6 days! Well, not so fast. Whether you inject 100mgs or a 1000mgs, the half life is going to be the same 12 days and the rapid absorption will be the same rate that I believe is real life. And for all those that feel like I’m so wrong, why do you start PCT two weeks after your last injection if you feel you have months to go before you get to the end of the life? You’re living in denial if you believe the former and still PCT after only two weeks.

    What proof do I have? Only blood panels and common sense. My testosterone levels drop dramatically over two weeks if I reduce the amount. How much? The most dramatic is from 6000 down to 1200 in three weeks. But as an experiment, I’ve tested the day after an injection and then 5 days after an injection (different weeks). The day after my test is 1500 (approx) but five days later it’s down to 900. Now this doesn’t follow the precise math above, and that’s the other point. The rate of cleavage is dependant upon your body’s metabolism, the site (exposure to high volume of blood flow or in a more protected area of fatty tissue) and the quality of gear. I would take the half life of any advertised ester and cut it back and be more logical in the whole life of an injection. The half life of any ester is a moving target and should not be something you set your clock to.
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  3. Damn bro! Detroit I have always thought about it the same way. I agree with your logic and have been reading medical journals and searching for actual medical proof of the half-life theory that is mentioned on the boards.

    I have some medical articles that speak about how the injected AAS forms the depot, is slowly released in your blood stream and as the depot sits in your body (protected by the ester) it is slowly metabolized and attacked by the body.

    I will get the links up soon.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  4. Quote Originally Posted by jt339

    hcg aint gonna help a whole lot with tren ime. You just need lots of time off of it before you do pct.

    Up until a couple weeks ago I didn't have much libido and boner problems for about 6 months. Kept getting bloodwork and test, estro, fsh and lh kept coming back fine. Finally decided to get prolactin tested and it was ****ing 24. Hadn't used tren for about 6 months. Popped a few caber caps and I'm back to my horny, 24/7 boner self. Just shows those metabolites may linger for a loooooooooong time after you discontinue use.
    Out of curiosity what type of tren did you use?

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post
    Out of curiosity what type of tren did you use?
    enth last time, but my libido never fully recovered after the first time I used it which was about a year ago. Didn't have any actual sexual dysfunction though if I remember correctly. First time I used 350mg ace a week. Also, in my previous post I kind of asserted that lingering metabolites were causing the elevated prolactin which may not have been the case. I can't really point to a specific reason why the prolactin stayed elevated. I have only theories and I think it would be foolish to try and draw a definite conclusion from that.

    Stocked up on caber and I'm about to order some more enth. Gonna run it 400mg for 10 weeks. Clearly didn't learn my lesson =)
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  6. Got the references for the studies but my computer is being dumb. I will put em up when I'm home.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  7. Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    Got the references for the studies but my computer is being dumb. I will put em up when I'm home.
    Got my glasses on... ready for some edumacation

  8. A lot of knowledge on this thread! Kill it

  9. Here are the studies below. Copy them and paste them in google, it will pull up the articles. The ones about metabolism (there is 2) and the one about nandrolone ester are the best ones IMO. If anyone has questions let me know.


    A pharmacokinetic study of injectable testosterone undecanoate in hypogonadal men J Androl 1998 Nov-Dec;19(6):761-8

    Schulte-Beerbuhl M et al., Comparison of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of testosterone enanthate or testosterone cypionate. Fertility and Sterility (1980) 33.2 : 201-203.

    Van der Vies, J. Acta Endocrinologica., 1985, 271, 38-44

    Weinbauer, G.F.; Jackwerth, B; et al. Acta Endocrinol. Copenh., 1990, 122, 432-42

    Belkien, L.; Schurmeyer, T.; et al. J. Steroid Biochem., 1985, 22, 623-629

    Metabolism of Anabolic Androgenic steroids. V. Rogozkin. 1991 CRC press

    Metabolism of synthetic steroids. Fotherby K, James F. Adv. Steroid biochem pharmacol 1972 3: 67-165

    Pharmacokinetic parameters of nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) after intramuscular administration of nandrolone decanoate to healthy volunteers. Wijnand, Bosch and Donker.

    Implications of basic pharmacology in the therapy with esters of nandrolone. Acta endocrinol 1985 (suppl 271) 38-43
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  10. This ones talks about life of Nandrolone in the body
    http://www.clinchem.org/content/50/2/355.full

    https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/georg...-papers/17.pdf

    This is a very big article but it has a TON of references below it and some of them are interesting. I have been reading them randomly and been learning alot.
    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/86/11/5108.full
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  11. Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    Here are the studies below. Copy them and paste them in google, it will pull up the articles. The ones about metabolism (there is 2) and the one about nandrolone ester are the best ones IMO. If anyone has questions let me know.

    A pharmacokinetic study of injectable testosterone undecanoate in hypogonadal men J Androl 1998 Nov-Dec;19(6):761-8

    Schulte-Beerbuhl M et al., Comparison of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of testosterone enanthate or testosterone cypionate. Fertility and Sterility (1980) 33.2 : 201-203.

    Van der Vies, J. Acta Endocrinologica., 1985, 271, 38-44

    Weinbauer, G.F.; Jackwerth, B; et al. Acta Endocrinol. Copenh., 1990, 122, 432-42

    Belkien, L.; Schurmeyer, T.; et al. J. Steroid Biochem., 1985, 22, 623-629

    Metabolism of Anabolic Androgenic steroids. V. Rogozkin. 1991 CRC press

    Metabolism of synthetic steroids. Fotherby K, James F. Adv. Steroid biochem pharmacol 1972 3: 67-165

    Pharmacokinetic parameters of nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) after intramuscular administration of nandrolone decanoate to healthy volunteers. Wijnand, Bosch and Donker.

    Implications of basic pharmacology in the therapy with esters of nandrolone. Acta endocrinol 1985 (suppl 271) 38-43
    Where the rest of it lol

  12. Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Where the rest of it lol
    Im giving the tools to learn haha. You just copy, paste, search and then read. I will pull pieces out when I get home since I am at work now.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  13. Quote Originally Posted by thyrod View Post
    A lot of knowledge on this thread! Kill it
    Dave always brings it! I'm always learning from his work!

  14. DD is a mad scientist! Knowledge is power, expand your mind is what I always tell my little girl, it's just funny to me how many people on this forum are so closed minded. Good info here. Most informative thread I've read in awhile.

  15. Late but in for knowledge DD!
    Independent

  16. Quote Originally Posted by BigShadow
    DD is a mad scientist! Knowledge is power, expand your mind is what I always tell my little girl, it's just funny to me how many people on this forum are so closed minded. Good info here. Most informative thread I've read in awhile.
    Thanks man. Yes knowledge is power. People need to ask why more than just how. By just being curious and reading medical journals its amazing how much you can learn.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  17. Quote Originally Posted by bean5er
    Late but in for knowledge DD!
    Welcome man.

    Little update for everyone... I am delaying the cycle a few days. Had a bit of a cold flare up this weekend. I want to be sure my immune system is good before I start. I feel on the up side now but I am just being cautious.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  18. So I am feeling pretty good now. Started loading Cycle Guard, Formasurge and anabeta today. Will load for 3 days then start the cycle. I am still been kinda tired and had a stuffed nose so I know I'm nit 100% yet.

    I am carb cycling and priming for some big gains this Blast.... I'm focking stoked!
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  19. Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    So I am feeling pretty good now. Started loading Cycle Guard, Formasurge and anabeta today. Will load for 3 days then start the cycle. I am still been kinda tired and had a stuffed nose so I know I'm nit 100% yet.

    I am carb cycling and priming for some big gains this Blast.... I'm focking stoked!
    Goooooo!!!! Im stoked also!!! Getting me pumped for my cycle...

  20. Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave
    So I am feeling pretty good now. Started loading Cycle Guard, Formasurge and anabeta today. Will load for 3 days then start the cycle. I am still been kinda tired and had a stuffed nose so I know I'm nit 100% yet.

    I am carb cycling and priming for some big gains this Blast.... I'm focking stoked!
    Hope by then you feel 100% beast!

    Secondly, i always thought that it was harder to hold onto gains of you make them in such a short time period? Mind shedding some light on that for me?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by thyrod

    Hope by then you feel 100% beast!

    Secondly, i always thought that it was harder to hold onto gains of you make them in such a short time period? Mind shedding some light on that for me?
    Its a big explanation. Let me get to a computer to type it out. There is a reason.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  22. Def in for this one as I was under the same understanding.
    Independent

  23. I'm back and forth on keeping anabeta during my run. I'm currently just starting alpha mass and 4 AD. I've been on anabeta for several weeks now and just can't get off lol. I love this stuff.

    What do you think, what's your reasons for running it?
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by thyrod View Post
    Hope by then you feel 100% beast!

    Secondly, i always thought that it was harder to hold onto gains of you make them in such a short time period? Mind shedding some light on that for me?
    Good question man. I will go in depth here and quote pieces out of the "androgen" article that I built this cycle from.

    First lets remember and clarify the goals here....
    1. Increase muscle mass in a short amount of time with very minimul fat gain
    2. Build solid, dense, and "mature" muscle
    3. Get "on" and "off" before sides start and gains stop
    4. Recover very fast
    5. Get back on

    Here is the idea of how the cycle works. Now remember that by using HCG and other compounds to ensure a speedy recover you can add in a week or two to bring it around a 26 day cycle.

    "We begin by frontloading the estered injectables, up to three days before cycle day zero, and add the orals and esterless injectables at cycle day minus one. On cycle day zero, the AAS is already active, with blood levels increasing. We end the injectables and orals, suitably in advance of the end of the cycle, so that, on cycle day 15, the AAS is non-inhibitory, and HTPA recovery begins immediately. Add on 14 days further system recovery, and then a cycle can begin anew. Seven weeks, total. Over a year, this might be acccomplished seven times. When HCG, and an anti-e at suitable dosage, are added to the Clomid, the HTPA may be recovered in only 2 weeks. This shortens the next cycle availability point by one week."
    ** The idea here if you didnt get it... Get in and Get out before your body has time to compensate and counter the exogeneous hormones and growth it is experiencing.**

    Next- Logic of keeping gains-
    "Ever notice how productive of muscle, a cycle usually is, during the first four weeks, and how it slows down and bodyfat accumulates, during the second four weeks? You end up eating more, in the attempt to return things to the former rate. More bodyfat. Finally, the whole process slows down for good. What's going on? The common explanation is that you are getting bigger, so that requires more nutrition. We say no. We say the body realizes what is going on, it exhausts and compensates, and body metabolism and developmental processes simply will no longer support this process. But you continue to eat. And that food has got no place else to go, but be turned into fat, with unproductive lbm production."
    **by doing it like this we get less bloat and as a result not very much water weight. In theory you are on, grow the first few weeks, get off before your body compensates for gains, during that time coming off and recovering (fast) you dont lose and water weight (because you never bloated).**

    Here is another point-

    What might be expected, in the way of results? Bulking, we have seen as much as 10 pounds lbm. Average is five pounds. Over a year, that's 35 pounds. You say, "Hell, I can grow that much in 8 weeks". I say, let's see how many times a year you can accomplish that, and over how many years do you think you will continue to accomplish that? We have this steady, measured growing, going on and on. My guess is that this approach, using only a modest bulking diet, rather than the typical American pig-out bulking diet, can be accomplished for years and years. Due to short cycle length and rational diet design, there is very little fat gain. No pressing need to cut. No need to look like the typical big, smooth BBer, who only looks cut once a year. Our people are lean, defined, and feel healthy, all the time. They only spend two weeks out of seven(or six), cycling. And, since they get normalized quickly, they can train and grow natural, more quickly, because there is none of the weeks and weeks of getting that slow AAS out of their systems. The BBer doing the typical 8 week long acting ester cycle, exists for weeks in a kind of limbo, where the blood levels are not high enough for anabolism, but are still inhibitory, and he must wait all that extra time. My people are off, longer than they are on. Their bodies, free of drugs.

    Let me say this as a closing. It is a hard debate on the best way to keep gains... honestly the best way possible is cruise on Test year round and never come off while blasting every few weeks with heavy androgens... but we all cant do that.

    What we see today is people running these retarded long cycles with a ton of compounds and they get these sick gains from the first 4-6 weeks. Then it AAALLL slows down, they bring in more compounds to spike up gains. They start gaining fat and bloating because by this time around week 8 your body has realized what is happening and is resisting the exogenous hormones. How? by converting to estrogen, resulting in the bloat and fat gain.

    Diets are all jacked up. I see it all the time here. Everyone worries about the gear, gear, gear, What should i use?, How much? When? for how long? what do you get? a good put together cycle with a crappy diet. results... bloat and water gains. What happens when they come off? Lose the water weight and blame it on something... "I wasnt on long enough to keep the gains". Really? Did you diet, train and then use the gear all properly? I think people "lose" gains that are water weight and bloat then just look for an excuse instead of looking at the real problem.

    I want to gain SOLID, DENSE, HARD MUSCLE! If i can cycle every few weeks and during every burst gain 4-5lbs of quality muscle AND KEEP IT because I am not bloating or gaining fat. That could mean 25lbs+ in the first year and it would slowly go down over time. That is much more appealing and by not gaining so much so fast while shutting down my HPTA so severly my body will be more receptive to keeping gains.

    That is alot and I just smacked it all out really fast so it might be cluttered or not make sense. Let me know if you have more questions then I will answer them more in depth. Just be specific
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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