4 WEEK BLAST CYCLE!! Test P/Tren A/TNE/Dbol/Anadrol

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    Got the references for the studies but my computer is being dumb. I will put em up when I'm home.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    Got the references for the studies but my computer is being dumb. I will put em up when I'm home.
    Got my glasses on... ready for some edumacation
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    A lot of knowledge on this thread! Kill it
    •   
       

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    Here are the studies below. Copy them and paste them in google, it will pull up the articles. The ones about metabolism (there is 2) and the one about nandrolone ester are the best ones IMO. If anyone has questions let me know.


    A pharmacokinetic study of injectable testosterone undecanoate in hypogonadal men J Androl 1998 Nov-Dec;19(6):761-8

    Schulte-Beerbuhl M et al., Comparison of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of testosterone enanthate or testosterone cypionate. Fertility and Sterility (1980) 33.2 : 201-203.

    Van der Vies, J. Acta Endocrinologica., 1985, 271, 38-44

    Weinbauer, G.F.; Jackwerth, B; et al. Acta Endocrinol. Copenh., 1990, 122, 432-42

    Belkien, L.; Schurmeyer, T.; et al. J. Steroid Biochem., 1985, 22, 623-629

    Metabolism of Anabolic Androgenic steroids. V. Rogozkin. 1991 CRC press

    Metabolism of synthetic steroids. Fotherby K, James F. Adv. Steroid biochem pharmacol 1972 3: 67-165

    Pharmacokinetic parameters of nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) after intramuscular administration of nandrolone decanoate to healthy volunteers. Wijnand, Bosch and Donker.

    Implications of basic pharmacology in the therapy with esters of nandrolone. Acta endocrinol 1985 (suppl 271) 38-43
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    This ones talks about life of Nandrolone in the body
    http://www.clinchem.org/content/50/2/355.full

    https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/georg...-papers/17.pdf

    This is a very big article but it has a TON of references below it and some of them are interesting. I have been reading them randomly and been learning alot.
    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/86/11/5108.full
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    Here are the studies below. Copy them and paste them in google, it will pull up the articles. The ones about metabolism (there is 2) and the one about nandrolone ester are the best ones IMO. If anyone has questions let me know.

    A pharmacokinetic study of injectable testosterone undecanoate in hypogonadal men J Androl 1998 Nov-Dec;19(6):761-8

    Schulte-Beerbuhl M et al., Comparison of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of testosterone enanthate or testosterone cypionate. Fertility and Sterility (1980) 33.2 : 201-203.

    Van der Vies, J. Acta Endocrinologica., 1985, 271, 38-44

    Weinbauer, G.F.; Jackwerth, B; et al. Acta Endocrinol. Copenh., 1990, 122, 432-42

    Belkien, L.; Schurmeyer, T.; et al. J. Steroid Biochem., 1985, 22, 623-629

    Metabolism of Anabolic Androgenic steroids. V. Rogozkin. 1991 CRC press

    Metabolism of synthetic steroids. Fotherby K, James F. Adv. Steroid biochem pharmacol 1972 3: 67-165

    Pharmacokinetic parameters of nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) after intramuscular administration of nandrolone decanoate to healthy volunteers. Wijnand, Bosch and Donker.

    Implications of basic pharmacology in the therapy with esters of nandrolone. Acta endocrinol 1985 (suppl 271) 38-43
    Where the rest of it lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Where the rest of it lol
    Im giving the tools to learn haha. You just copy, paste, search and then read. I will pull pieces out when I get home since I am at work now.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by thyrod View Post
    A lot of knowledge on this thread! Kill it
    Dave always brings it! I'm always learning from his work!
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    DD is a mad scientist! Knowledge is power, expand your mind is what I always tell my little girl, it's just funny to me how many people on this forum are so closed minded. Good info here. Most informative thread I've read in awhile.
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    True
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    Late but in for knowledge DD!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigShadow
    DD is a mad scientist! Knowledge is power, expand your mind is what I always tell my little girl, it's just funny to me how many people on this forum are so closed minded. Good info here. Most informative thread I've read in awhile.
    Thanks man. Yes knowledge is power. People need to ask why more than just how. By just being curious and reading medical journals its amazing how much you can learn.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by bean5er
    Late but in for knowledge DD!
    Welcome man.

    Little update for everyone... I am delaying the cycle a few days. Had a bit of a cold flare up this weekend. I want to be sure my immune system is good before I start. I feel on the up side now but I am just being cautious.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    So I am feeling pretty good now. Started loading Cycle Guard, Formasurge and anabeta today. Will load for 3 days then start the cycle. I am still been kinda tired and had a stuffed nose so I know I'm nit 100% yet.

    I am carb cycling and priming for some big gains this Blast.... I'm focking stoked!
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    So I am feeling pretty good now. Started loading Cycle Guard, Formasurge and anabeta today. Will load for 3 days then start the cycle. I am still been kinda tired and had a stuffed nose so I know I'm nit 100% yet.

    I am carb cycling and priming for some big gains this Blast.... I'm focking stoked!
    Goooooo!!!! Im stoked also!!! Getting me pumped for my cycle...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave
    So I am feeling pretty good now. Started loading Cycle Guard, Formasurge and anabeta today. Will load for 3 days then start the cycle. I am still been kinda tired and had a stuffed nose so I know I'm nit 100% yet.

    I am carb cycling and priming for some big gains this Blast.... I'm focking stoked!
    Hope by then you feel 100% beast!

    Secondly, i always thought that it was harder to hold onto gains of you make them in such a short time period? Mind shedding some light on that for me?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thyrod

    Hope by then you feel 100% beast!

    Secondly, i always thought that it was harder to hold onto gains of you make them in such a short time period? Mind shedding some light on that for me?
    Its a big explanation. Let me get to a computer to type it out. There is a reason.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Def in for this one as I was under the same understanding.
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    I'm back and forth on keeping anabeta during my run. I'm currently just starting alpha mass and 4 AD. I've been on anabeta for several weeks now and just can't get off lol. I love this stuff.

    What do you think, what's your reasons for running it?
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thyrod View Post
    Hope by then you feel 100% beast!

    Secondly, i always thought that it was harder to hold onto gains of you make them in such a short time period? Mind shedding some light on that for me?
    Good question man. I will go in depth here and quote pieces out of the "androgen" article that I built this cycle from.

    First lets remember and clarify the goals here....
    1. Increase muscle mass in a short amount of time with very minimul fat gain
    2. Build solid, dense, and "mature" muscle
    3. Get "on" and "off" before sides start and gains stop
    4. Recover very fast
    5. Get back on

    Here is the idea of how the cycle works. Now remember that by using HCG and other compounds to ensure a speedy recover you can add in a week or two to bring it around a 26 day cycle.

    "We begin by frontloading the estered injectables, up to three days before cycle day zero, and add the orals and esterless injectables at cycle day minus one. On cycle day zero, the AAS is already active, with blood levels increasing. We end the injectables and orals, suitably in advance of the end of the cycle, so that, on cycle day 15, the AAS is non-inhibitory, and HTPA recovery begins immediately. Add on 14 days further system recovery, and then a cycle can begin anew. Seven weeks, total. Over a year, this might be acccomplished seven times. When HCG, and an anti-e at suitable dosage, are added to the Clomid, the HTPA may be recovered in only 2 weeks. This shortens the next cycle availability point by one week."
    ** The idea here if you didnt get it... Get in and Get out before your body has time to compensate and counter the exogeneous hormones and growth it is experiencing.**

    Next- Logic of keeping gains-
    "Ever notice how productive of muscle, a cycle usually is, during the first four weeks, and how it slows down and bodyfat accumulates, during the second four weeks? You end up eating more, in the attempt to return things to the former rate. More bodyfat. Finally, the whole process slows down for good. What's going on? The common explanation is that you are getting bigger, so that requires more nutrition. We say no. We say the body realizes what is going on, it exhausts and compensates, and body metabolism and developmental processes simply will no longer support this process. But you continue to eat. And that food has got no place else to go, but be turned into fat, with unproductive lbm production."
    **by doing it like this we get less bloat and as a result not very much water weight. In theory you are on, grow the first few weeks, get off before your body compensates for gains, during that time coming off and recovering (fast) you dont lose and water weight (because you never bloated).**

    Here is another point-

    What might be expected, in the way of results? Bulking, we have seen as much as 10 pounds lbm. Average is five pounds. Over a year, that's 35 pounds. You say, "Hell, I can grow that much in 8 weeks". I say, let's see how many times a year you can accomplish that, and over how many years do you think you will continue to accomplish that? We have this steady, measured growing, going on and on. My guess is that this approach, using only a modest bulking diet, rather than the typical American pig-out bulking diet, can be accomplished for years and years. Due to short cycle length and rational diet design, there is very little fat gain. No pressing need to cut. No need to look like the typical big, smooth BBer, who only looks cut once a year. Our people are lean, defined, and feel healthy, all the time. They only spend two weeks out of seven(or six), cycling. And, since they get normalized quickly, they can train and grow natural, more quickly, because there is none of the weeks and weeks of getting that slow AAS out of their systems. The BBer doing the typical 8 week long acting ester cycle, exists for weeks in a kind of limbo, where the blood levels are not high enough for anabolism, but are still inhibitory, and he must wait all that extra time. My people are off, longer than they are on. Their bodies, free of drugs.

    Let me say this as a closing. It is a hard debate on the best way to keep gains... honestly the best way possible is cruise on Test year round and never come off while blasting every few weeks with heavy androgens... but we all cant do that.

    What we see today is people running these retarded long cycles with a ton of compounds and they get these sick gains from the first 4-6 weeks. Then it AAALLL slows down, they bring in more compounds to spike up gains. They start gaining fat and bloating because by this time around week 8 your body has realized what is happening and is resisting the exogenous hormones. How? by converting to estrogen, resulting in the bloat and fat gain.

    Diets are all jacked up. I see it all the time here. Everyone worries about the gear, gear, gear, What should i use?, How much? When? for how long? what do you get? a good put together cycle with a crappy diet. results... bloat and water gains. What happens when they come off? Lose the water weight and blame it on something... "I wasnt on long enough to keep the gains". Really? Did you diet, train and then use the gear all properly? I think people "lose" gains that are water weight and bloat then just look for an excuse instead of looking at the real problem.

    I want to gain SOLID, DENSE, HARD MUSCLE! If i can cycle every few weeks and during every burst gain 4-5lbs of quality muscle AND KEEP IT because I am not bloating or gaining fat. That could mean 25lbs+ in the first year and it would slowly go down over time. That is much more appealing and by not gaining so much so fast while shutting down my HPTA so severly my body will be more receptive to keeping gains.

    That is alot and I just smacked it all out really fast so it might be cluttered or not make sense. Let me know if you have more questions then I will answer them more in depth. Just be specific
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by technique88 View Post
    I'm back and forth on keeping anabeta during my run. I'm currently just starting alpha mass and 4 AD. I've been on anabeta for several weeks now and just can't get off lol. I love this stuff.

    What do you think, what's your reasons for running it?
    I have never used it, I like what I have seen and wanted to run it during the cycle with everything for the increased appetite benefits. If its legit.. like I am sure it is... I will prolly grab another bottle for PCT haha.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Thanks Dave!
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    Definitely a must in PCT I would say get. Anabeta elite for pct. I think I want to keep on anabeta it's really nice for keeping me full, great sense of well being, and great strength.
    My muscles are pharmaceutically enhanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thyrod
    Thanks Dave!
    No problem bro. Hope that answered your question and I didn't go off in a rant too much lol.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by technique88
    Definitely a must in PCT I would say get. Anabeta elite for pct. I think I want to keep on anabeta it's really nice for keeping me full, great sense of well being, and great strength.
    Ha yeah man I probably will. How fast did it start working for you? When were you like.. oh damn this sh*t kicked in!
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Holy **** DD that is very interesting, as I'm new to gear as far as knowledge this makes a lot of sense as far as the logs I've followed. Guys get big quick taper off then look soft. As u know I'm gonna run my first cycle pretty soon and ill say I've spent the last two years understanding proper diet and training, you still think I'm okay running a 14 week cycle ( basic beginner cycle) or should I re think this? Just curious bro.

    As far as Anabeta I prefer elite as the appetite increase is much greater with OG version. If u can control what u eat you'll love the OG version. I tend to eat crap when I take it, not so much with elite.
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    Damn that's an interesting read Dave. Thanks for posting that up. Might have to look into it further after my upcoming cycle.
    Mind and Muscle board representative.
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    ^^ same spot, I was planning my first cycle during summer(got everything needed for it) but after reading all this, I've gotten pretty fascinated about it. So back to the readings, and possible if I get it all down correct I'll try this method.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bean5er
    Holy **** DD that is very interesting, as I'm new to gear as far as knowledge this makes a lot of sense as far as the logs I've followed. Guys get big quick taper off then look soft. As u know I'm gonna run my first cycle pretty soon and ill say I've spent the last two years understanding proper diet and training, you still think I'm okay running a 14 week cycle ( basic beginner cycle) or should I re think this? Just curious bro.

    As far as Anabeta I prefer elite as the appetite increase is much greater with OG version. If u can control what u eat you'll love the OG version. I tend to eat crap when I take it, not so much with elite.
    You will be good man. The thing is the guy who wrote that article and the other guys who follow this all say the same thing. They recommend guys getting 3-5 longer cycles under their belt so they can learn about sides and experience different compounds. The reason is since you will be running 3, 4 or 5+ compounds in 3-5 weeks what happens if you get sides? What compound caused the side? If you have only used test before but never Tren, NPP, anadrol, dbol, Var and so on how do you know what to stop or how to counter it?

    Does that mean you need 3-5 14 weeks cycles? No. I would say get the big one with test done. Try a short cycle like 8 weeks with some test and NPP or tren, then recover. Cycle again with different stuff and eventually BAM! you have a working knowledge of 5+ compounds and how your body reacts to them.

    Bump the doses high, shorten the cycle to 4 weeks and hit it hard with a strict diet.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave

    You will be good man. The thing is the guy who wrote that article and the other guys who follow this all say the same thing. They recommend guys getting 3-5 longer cycles under their belt so they can learn about sides and experience different compounds. The reason is since you will be running 3, 4 or 5+ compounds in 3-5 weeks what happens if you get sides? What compound caused the side? If you have only used test before but never Tren, NPP, anadrol, dbol, Var and so on how do you know what to stop or how to counter it?

    Does that mean you need 3-5 14 weeks cycles? No. I would say get the big one with test done. Try a short cycle like 8 weeks with some test and NPP or tren, then recover. Cycle again with different stuff and eventually BAM! you have a working knowledge of 5+ compounds and how your body reacts to them.

    Bump the doses high, shorten the cycle to 4 weeks and hit it hard with a strict diet.
    Got it and I agree. Thats the approach I took with natty supps at the very least I staggered them so I would know what ea one was doing for me! Thanks bro.

    What about adding in masterone with test E for a first go? Or should I stick to test with an oral kicker?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bean5er

    Got it and I agree. Thats the approach I took with natty supps at the very least I staggered them so I would know what ea one was doing for me! Thanks bro.

    What about adding in masterone with test E for a first go? Or should I stick to test with an oral kicker?
    I like the idea of mast E. It is expensive and should be run high. Or even try mast P for around 6-8 weeks at a high dose.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Totally agree with the sides thing...like Var I can't use it even 20mg kills my BP no matter what I do so var is a no no for me it's all about learning how your body works and responds for sure
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave

    I like the idea of mast E. It is expensive and should be run high. Or even try mast P for around 6-8 weeks at a high dose.
    I only have mast E available. Ill do some more research/reading on it thanks Dave. BTW when you gettin this party started bro? U feeling better?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bean5er

    I only have mast E available. Ill do some more research/reading on it thanks Dave. BTW when you gettin this party started bro? U feeling better?
    Yeah man I think one more day and another solid night of sleep. I will start Saturday/Sunday. I'm feeling decent just "tired" ya know. I hate that feeling after your body beats the cold but is recovering still. I am still pre loading all of my support now so I will be ready whenever.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave

    Yeah man I think one more day and another solid night of sleep. I will start Saturday/Sunday. I'm feeling decent just "tired" ya know. I hate that feeling after your body beats the cold but is recovering still. I am still pre loading all of my support now so I will be ready whenever.
    Good to hear bro lookin forward to this blast off lol
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    Just so you guys know.... BPS is giving away their new product VANILLEAN to 5 lucky loggers! Check it out in company promotions
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave

    Good question man. I will go in depth here and quote pieces out of the "androgen" article that I built this cycle from.

    First lets remember and clarify the goals here....
    1. Increase muscle mass in a short amount of time with very minimul fat gain
    2. Build solid, dense, and "mature" muscle
    3. Get "on" and "off" before sides start and gains stop
    4. Recover very fast
    5. Get back on

    Here is the idea of how the cycle works. Now remember that by using HCG and other compounds to ensure a speedy recover you can add in a week or two to bring it around a 26 day cycle.

    "We begin by frontloading the estered injectables, up to three days before cycle day zero, and add the orals and esterless injectables at cycle day minus one. On cycle day zero, the AAS is already active, with blood levels increasing. We end the injectables and orals, suitably in advance of the end of the cycle, so that, on cycle day 15, the AAS is non-inhibitory, and HTPA recovery begins immediately. Add on 14 days further system recovery, and then a cycle can begin anew. Seven weeks, total. Over a year, this might be acccomplished seven times. When HCG, and an anti-e at suitable dosage, are added to the Clomid, the HTPA may be recovered in only 2 weeks. This shortens the next cycle availability point by one week."
    ** The idea here if you didnt get it... Get in and Get out before your body has time to compensate and counter the exogeneous hormones and growth it is experiencing.**

    Next- Logic of keeping gains-
    "Ever notice how productive of muscle, a cycle usually is, during the first four weeks, and how it slows down and bodyfat accumulates, during the second four weeks? You end up eating more, in the attempt to return things to the former rate. More bodyfat. Finally, the whole process slows down for good. What's going on? The common explanation is that you are getting bigger, so that requires more nutrition. We say no. We say the body realizes what is going on, it exhausts and compensates, and body metabolism and developmental processes simply will no longer support this process. But you continue to eat. And that food has got no place else to go, but be turned into fat, with unproductive lbm production."
    **by doing it like this we get less bloat and as a result not very much water weight. In theory you are on, grow the first few weeks, get off before your body compensates for gains, during that time coming off and recovering (fast) you dont lose and water weight (because you never bloated).**

    Here is another point-

    What might be expected, in the way of results? Bulking, we have seen as much as 10 pounds lbm. Average is five pounds. Over a year, that's 35 pounds. You say, "Hell, I can grow that much in 8 weeks". I say, let's see how many times a year you can accomplish that, and over how many years do you think you will continue to accomplish that? We have this steady, measured growing, going on and on. My guess is that this approach, using only a modest bulking diet, rather than the typical American pig-out bulking diet, can be accomplished for years and years. Due to short cycle length and rational diet design, there is very little fat gain. No pressing need to cut. No need to look like the typical big, smooth BBer, who only looks cut once a year. Our people are lean, defined, and feel healthy, all the time. They only spend two weeks out of seven(or six), cycling. And, since they get normalized quickly, they can train and grow natural, more quickly, because there is none of the weeks and weeks of getting that slow AAS out of their systems. The BBer doing the typical 8 week long acting ester cycle, exists for weeks in a kind of limbo, where the blood levels are not high enough for anabolism, but are still inhibitory, and he must wait all that extra time. My people are off, longer than they are on. Their bodies, free of drugs.

    Let me say this as a closing. It is a hard debate on the best way to keep gains... honestly the best way possible is cruise on Test year round and never come off while blasting every few weeks with heavy androgens... but we all cant do that.

    What we see today is people running these retarded long cycles with a ton of compounds and they get these sick gains from the first 4-6 weeks. Then it AAALLL slows down, they bring in more compounds to spike up gains. They start gaining fat and bloating because by this time around week 8 your body has realized what is happening and is resisting the exogenous hormones. How? by converting to estrogen, resulting in the bloat and fat gain.

    Diets are all jacked up. I see it all the time here. Everyone worries about the gear, gear, gear, What should i use?, How much? When? for how long? what do you get? a good put together cycle with a crappy diet. results... bloat and water gains. What happens when they come off? Lose the water weight and blame it on something... "I wasnt on long enough to keep the gains". Really? Did you diet, train and then use the gear all properly? I think people "lose" gains that are water weight and bloat then just look for an excuse instead of looking at the real problem.

    I want to gain SOLID, DENSE, HARD MUSCLE! If i can cycle every few weeks and during every burst gain 4-5lbs of quality muscle AND KEEP IT because I am not bloating or gaining fat. That could mean 25lbs+ in the first year and it would slowly go down over time. That is much more appealing and by not gaining so much so fast while shutting down my HPTA so severly my body will be more receptive to keeping gains.

    That is alot and I just smacked it all out really fast so it might be cluttered or not make sense. Let me know if you have more questions then I will answer them more in depth. Just be specific

    My gains never have slowed down.


    I literally put on 42 lbs in 10 weeks last bulk.

    Only a small amount of fat too.

    I still think this is not going to work as planned. But we shall see! Def subbed
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwellington View Post

    My gains never have slowed down.

    I literally put on 42 lbs in 10 weeks last bulk.

    Only a small amount of fat too.

    I still think this is not going to work as planned. But we shall see! Def subbed
    Only 42lbs? Was that the run you logged over the summer with test and npp?
    A superbeast is a mythological creature created for entertainment purposes only. A superbeasts references to anabolic steroids, hormones and peptides are just that, references for entertainment purposes only.
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    Nope
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwellington View Post
    Nope
    Dude 42 lbs is sick. What were you running?
    A superbeast is a mythological creature created for entertainment purposes only. A superbeasts references to anabolic steroids, hormones and peptides are just that, references for entertainment purposes only.
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