Deca/Test log: version Smash Time

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904
    So right now I'm taking test p 125mg eod, and deca 300mg test e 410mg per week split M/W/F(its a painful shot, feels better split up, and i figured this would give more stable test levels). First thing is I'm taking 2cc of deca and 3 cc of test and putting it together in a vile, and then pulling off that for dosing - is this ok? Next I'm thinking of raising the test e to 470mg/week deca 310, does anyone think I shouldn't? And finally I am reading Swale's HCG Protocol, and Im wondering if I'm dosing correctly - 250mcg M/F... It says like day of once a week shot and two days before that, but I have a different aas protocol.

    Thanks.
    Any thoughts?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion

    Well most wet compounds are ideal for strength gains but even more so for muscle gains. I was just asking really. True strength training will not necessarily be very effective at mass gaining, although some gains should be realized regardless.

    When talking anabolics, I always aim for mass gains personally. My theory is that steroid strength will always escape you unless muscle mass has been added as well. Keeping muscle gains on the other hand really has more to do with your PCT protocol as well as bridging supplements. I'm not arguing with Rodja or anyone who is into the strength/power lifting stuff but I just try to realize as much gains as possible from these cycles. I couldn't justify steroid cycles if everything I benefited from the cycle was lost 4 weeks after stopping.
    You know what? Your theory seems kind of dead on. My strength has always been directly proportional to my weight, and in pct my strength sticks if my weight stays. As soon as I start dropping pounds I start coming up short on sets, and lowering my weight. If I focus on mass I will get stronger too, and will retain more in pct.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by jaderjader321
    Post up some results man! Pics or weight or measurements!
    Every day I log I put down weight and strength increases. So far I'm up 4 lbs, which means I've completed 16% of my weight goal, and I'm only two weeks in - have 14 weeks left.

  4. So my friend is telling me that at 10-12 weeks I should stop the deca, and start up tren ace for the remainder of cycle. I don't know if I'll need to, I have a feeling deca is going to be awesome, and might want to do a test p tren ace for my next cycle. I am thinking of running anavar the last 3 weeks to solidify gains, and to see how I react to test/progestin/dht at the same time.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    You know what? Your theory seems kind of dead on. My strength has always been directly proportional to my weight, and in pct my strength sticks if my weight stays. As soon as I start dropping pounds I start coming up short on sets, and lowering my weight. If I focus on mass I will get stronger too, and will retain more in pct.
    It's called leverage. Generally speaking, being heavier will give you better leverage for strength. This is another reason why I don't try to put on insane amounts of mass on-cycle: it's not going to stick around once you're done. However, modest gains (5-8 lbs) can be maintained along with your leverages.

    Maximal strength development is something that very few people understand. It has much less to do with muscle mass than 99% of people think. It is determined primarily by the CNS and technique. That's why you see dude's that are 150 lbs and bench 315 lbs; they understand technique and have an efficient CNS. To quote Louie Simmons, "Big isn't strong; strong is strong."
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

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  6. I wouldn't run both deca and tren in this cycle, I'd stop the deca 2 weeks before you stop the test though.
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    It's called leverage. Generally speaking, being heavier will give you better leverage for strength. This is another reason why I don't try to put on insane amounts of mass on-cycle: it's not going to stick around once you're done. However, modest gains (5-8 lbs) can be maintained along with your leverages.

    Maximal strength development is something that very few people understand. It has much less to do with muscle mass than 99% of people think. It is determined primarily by the CNS and technique. That's why you see dude's that are 150 lbs and bench 315 lbs; they understand technique and have an efficient CNS. To quote Louie Simmons, "Big isn't strong; strong is strong."
    Which is why you are able to get stronger even when you're not gaining weight. But the chemistry in your body is different when your on cycle vs not on cycle, so it would make sense to focus on getting the most mass(lbm) so that in pct you maintain more leverage(strength). If you expect to maintain 80% of your mass, then you could expect to maintain the same strength if its directly proportional.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by ManBeast
    I wouldn't run both deca and tren in this cycle, I'd stop the deca 2 weeks before you stop the test though.
    It was just a suggestion he made, I don't think its likely I'd do it. I'm already pretty sure I'm increasing the dose on test, and I could increase the amount of deca I'm taking, but he thinks I'd really like tren.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    Which is why you are able to get stronger even when you're not gaining weight. But the chemistry in your body is different when your on cycle vs not on cycle, so it would make sense to focus on getting the most mass(lbm) so that in pct you maintain more leverage(strength). If you expect to maintain 80% of your mass, then you could expect to maintain the same strength if its directly proportional.
    There isn't any exact proportion between strength and mass. The CNS is really what determines the strength of a person. Myofibrillar hypertrophy doesn't add a huge amount of mass, but it is the muscular portion that is responsible for strength. A bigger muscle has the potential​ to be a stronger muscle, but they do not go directly hand in hand.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  10. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    There isn't any exact proportion between strength and mass. The CNS is really what determines the strength of a person. Myofibrillar hypertrophy doesn't add a huge amount of mass, but it is the muscular portion that is responsible for strength. A bigger muscle has the potential to be a stronger muscle, but they do not go directly hand in hand.
    But for the purposes of trying to maintain as much strength in pct couldn't it be looked at like the more lbm you acquire and maintain, the less you're strength would dip? It seemed like you were saying to to move away from my 5x5 strength program, and focus more on hypertrophy, which is basically what my friend was telling me.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    But for the purposes of trying to maintain as much strength in pct couldn't it be looked at like the more lbm you acquire and maintain, the less you're strength would have a dip? It seemed like you were saying to to move away from my 5x5 strength program, and focus more on hypertrophy, which is basically what my friend was telling me.
    You wanted to gain a large amount of strength, so I steered you more towards conjugate training, which is not based around hypertrophy. While you can gain a solid amount of strength with hypertrophy training, it is not ideal. 5x5 is linear and is more suited to newer trainers. It is not ideal for maximal strength development.

    Regarding holding onto strength during PCT, this is something that depends completely on how you train and your CNS recovery abilities.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  12. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    You wanted to gain a large amount of strength, so I steered you more towards conjugate training, which is not based around hypertrophy. While you can gain a solid amount of strength with hypertrophy training, it is not ideal. 5x5 is linear and is more suited to newer trainers. It is not ideal for maximal strength development.

    Regarding holding onto strength during PCT, this is something that depends completely on how you train and your CNS recovery abilities.
    Although I wouldnt say I'm a new trainer(having played sports all through school, and fighting afterwards) by no means would I call myself an advanced lifter. I still lift pretty light, didn't have very good weight training programs, and only started deadlifting and squatting last year. Having a program that focuses on lifts like that, and strength, became important to me because I felt I was lacking. It might not be ideal, but it works, and it does get ones numbers up quickly. I know once I stop gaining with it to look to other programs.

    Last cycle I gained nearly 30 lbs, and my strength gains were crazy. My strength gains stopped in pct, but I didn't really lose any strength either, and my weight stayed about the same. After pct this became problematic because I kept getting stuck when I'd try to increase weight, and when I'd drop 10% I wasn't able to push through. Then I got real sick and lost a lot of weight, and my strength went down. So I dunno if maybe I needed a longer or more aggressive pct, but I didn't have any problems maintaining strength or size during that time - just progress came to a halt.

  13. How old are you?
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  14. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja
    How old are you?
    I turned 25 in August.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    I turned 25 in August.
    You're still in the window where, if you program properly, your strength can improve considerably each year, especially if you're not to the advanced stage (and I'm not saying that I'm there, BTW).
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  16. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    You're still in the window where, if you program properly, your strength can improve considerably each year, especially if you're not to the advanced stage (and I'm not saying that I'm there, BTW).
    Ya that's what I'm working on, and I'm only now starting to get the hang of things.

  17. Day 13:

    Weight: 187

    Started my deload today, felt pretty good. I'd been having some lower back pain since last week, so I felt like it was a good time to start.

    Percentages based on weight last lifted:
    Overhead press 60(52%) 15-15-13
    Front squat 90(60%) 12-12-10
    Front squat shrug 90(60%) 20-20-20
    I did the shrugs real slow, and keep the weight real low, but I was able to shrug 225 just a couple weeks ago, so don't know if I should keep them heavier?
    And I was able to do sets of 20-25 on all my isolation exercises.

    I am now dosing test 450mg/week, deca 330mg/week. I also lowered my test p dose to 75mg eod, and that will be until the beginning of next week.

  18. I didn't think to ask before, but when you deload is it 50% of 1rm or of what you were repping? And do you go up in weight with each subsequent workout in a given exercise during deload?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    I didn't think to ask before, but when you deload is it 50% of 1rm or of what you were repping? And do you go up in weight with each subsequent workout in a given exercise during deload?
    50-60% of 1RM on big lifts (squat, bench, deads, etc.). You do not need to deload on shrugs. Weight doesn't go up. Warm-up properly and do your deload sets for the big lifts.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  20. And your aiming at sets of 15? Or just as many you can do in a set for what, 3 sets?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    And your aiming at sets of 15? Or just as many you can do in a set for what, 3 sets?
    No, they're maybe 5 reps.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  22. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    No, they're maybe 5 reps.
    How many sets? Is it really slow speed or something? I mean that seems like almost nothing...

  23. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    How many sets? Is it really slow speed or something? I mean that seems like almost nothing...
    Normal tempo and 3-5 sets. It's not supposed to be challenging. At all. A deload is merely active recovery and technique work.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  24. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    Normal tempo and 3-5 sets. It's not supposed to be challenging. At all. A deload is merely active recovery and technique work.
    Gotcha. Looks like deload really starts tomorrow hahaha.

  25. So I'm thinking of going from my 5x5 routine to this maybe half way through:

    Monday

    Heavy Lower Body
    Medium Pull
    Light Push

    Wednesday

    Heavy Push
    Medium Lower Body
    Light Pull

    Friday

    Heavy Pull
    Medium Push
    Light Lower Body

    Heavy = 3-6 reps
    Medium = 6-9 reps
    Light = 10-15 reps

    A1 Heavy 3 3-6
    A2 Medium 3 6-9
    B1 Heavy (A1 continued) 3 3-6
    B2 Light 3 10-15

    This is based on:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/conte...-program-1180/

    So 6 weeks 5x5, 1 week deload, and then remainder of cycle follow the above program(6-8 weeks).
    Thatd be a 60-65 lb increase across the board, which doesn't sound unreasonable in 4 months, or I could switch over right off the bat and I'd have a 30-35 lb increase. This is of course if I don't stick at a weight, any thoughts?
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