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Oral conversion of fina pellets

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    read them all, whats your point tiger?
    you do realize most of those books are from first person accounts of use, steroids arent an exact science........its more trial and error.........

    for example i hate tren and deca for its sides.........but test, anavar, eq, and masteron love my body.........not everyone will react the same....

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    Quote Originally Posted by PVL View Post
    you do realize most of those books are from first person accounts of use, steroids arent an exact science........its more trial and error.........

    for example i hate tren and deca for its sides.........but test, anavar, eq, and masteron love my body.........not everyone will react the same....
    these books are only guidelines for self experimentation, if you dont know yourself, your systems and the possible reactions to these drugs then you have no business using them
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    these books are only guidelines for self experimentation, if you dont know yourself, your systems and the possible reactions to these drugs then you have no business using them
    bodybuilding is all experimentation man.........arnold was taking handfuls of dbol and winny precontest, no PCT............he had no guidelines.....just wait and see type of deal...........there is new stuff coming out every 5-10 years that make the market change its course. i think the peptides will slowly phase out AAS altogether...........cant wait to see a book on peptides and SARMS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jethro52185 View Post
    5 months??? Who runs ace for 5 months? Anyone that runs tren a for 5 months is incredibly ignorant. Of course it's harsh, but that's the point. You can't cruise on tren like you can on test, It's a completely different compound. Please tell me you didn't run it for anywhere close to that length of time? And if so, then yeah I'd imagine you had some serious issues, and understandably so. An 8 week cycle of tren is plenty. I personally would be nervous to run it any longer than that. 5 months of insomnia from tren is enough to kill a man, no wonder you had a bad experience.
    where did you get the idea it was me? lol! dude i would blast and cruise back in the day.........here is an example.........

    tren ace 100mg EOD, test enan 250mg EOD, EQ 200mg EOD

    tren taken for 4 week kicker
    test run for 16 weeks at that dose, same with EQ

    i would run tren ace one to 2 months on, 2 months off, repeat..........taking letro, arim and HCG every 4 months for 2-3 weeks

    anavar 40 mg a day, split dose am and pm
    dbol split dose 60mg, am and PM

    i would run the var for the weeks after tren use, and dbol as well..........

    you gotta do what you gotta do to get huge man, keepin up with the joneses...........

    i was 275-280 at 13-15% eating 7k-8k cals a day and around 500g of protein.............

    stick around some top level national guys wanting a pro card............their doses make mine look like childs play, lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVL View Post
    bodybuilding is all experimentation man.........arnold was taking handfuls of dbol and winny precontest, no PCT............he had no guidelines.....just wait and see type of deal...........there is new stuff coming out every 5-10 years that make the market change its course. i think the peptides will slowly phase out AAS altogether...........cant wait to see a book on peptides and SARMS
    I dont think peps will phase out test, slin or HGH, already there are too many BS pep companies out there with faked products and just crap. Now there are a few companies that yes are reputible, but I dont think any of these research drugs will replace the basic building blocks of muscle. Now if sum one wanted to release a cholestoral to run with your cycle thats the ticket there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesm11 View Post
    Way to contribute. You tell people they're wrong then add nothing yourself.
    I didnt tell anyone they were wrong (although many if the post in here are). I just questioned what they are basing their statements off of

    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    read them all, whats your point tiger?
    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by PVL View Post
    you do realize most of those books are from first person accounts of use..........
    No they are not

    Quote Originally Posted by PVL View Post
    steroids arent an exact science........its more trial and error
    Yes they are a science
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
  7. PVL
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I didnt tell anyone they were wrong (although many if the post in here are). I just questioned what they are basing their statements off of



    Really?



    No they are not

    Yes they are a science
    come on man, how many double blind tests you see with steroid users man...........read up on anabolics, the first edition and see how each issue changes..........its from users account and blood work.........that part is science..........but its all off of his own experiences.......

    josh, how old are you man? u cant be that nieve
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I didnt tell anyone they were wrong (although many if the post in here are). I just questioned what they are basing their statements off of



    Really?



    No they are not

    Yes they are a science
    um science? where in the testing sections? or are you refering to the small amount of speculation on compounds, based around the known facts of a few compounds. Yes there is nonemclature and other real info there but, its just enough to confuse most and have the rest of us looking to SHW for real world experiments and trials
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    Tren is very toxic I used tren e and went up to 1000mg a wk for 2.5 wks to see of te myth is right of tren effects ur kidneys.... My ankles doublespeak in size and I have a huge body but I have small ankles. Also my piss was dark on 3gallons of water. Tren is rough best way to explain using tren is like when spiderman became venom, u get stronger everything gets stronger not just strength. But you lose urself in the drug like spiderman did when he put on the venom. I am strong minded so I had little problems but I had weak minded friends who never returned to their old selfs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasen View Post
    Tren is very toxic I used tren e and went up to 1000mg a wk for 2.5 wks to see of te myth is right of tren effects ur kidneys.... My ankles doublespeak in size and I have a huge body but I have small ankles. Also my piss was dark on 3gallons of water. Tren is rough best way to explain using tren is like when spiderman became venom, u get stronger everything gets stronger not just strength. But you lose urself in the drug like spiderman did when he put on the venom. I am strong minded so I had little problems but I had weak minded friends who never returned to their old selfs
    like Jasen, this is how I do it, I push my envelope, but know my body really well, I have run 30mgs of M1T, and the is nothing compared to the pain you will experience from pushing the tren levels, what level will affect you, is what you will have to play with till you know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasen View Post
    Tren is very toxic I used tren e and went up to 1000mg a wk for 2.5 wks to see of te myth is right of tren effects ur kidneys.... My ankles doublespeak in size and I have a huge body but I have small ankles. Also my piss was dark on 3gallons of water. Tren is rough best way to explain using tren is like when spiderman became venom, u get stronger everything gets stronger not just strength. But you lose urself in the drug like spiderman did when he put on the venom. I am strong minded so I had little problems but I had weak minded friends who never returned to their old selfs
    tren is bad IMO, the most that should be used is 50mg EOD of ace, so if sides occur, it can clear within 3-4 days...........
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVL View Post
    tren is bad IMO, the most that should be used is 50mg EOD of ace, so if sides occur, it can clear within 3-4 days...........
    what you mean tren E at 1400 mgs a week isnt a good place to start?lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVL View Post
    where did you get the idea it was me? lol! dude i would blast and cruise back in the day.........here is an example.........

    tren ace 100mg EOD, test enan 250mg EOD, EQ 200mg EOD

    tren taken for 4 week kicker
    test run for 16 weeks at that dose, same with EQ

    i would run tren ace one to 2 months on, 2 months off, repeat..........taking letro, arim and HCG every 4 months for 2-3 weeks

    anavar 40 mg a day, split dose am and pm
    dbol split dose 60mg, am and PM

    i would run the var for the weeks after tren use, and dbol as well..........

    you gotta do what you gotta do to get huge man, keepin up with the joneses...........

    i was 275-280 at 13-15% eating 7k-8k cals a day and around 500g of protein.............

    stick around some top level national guys wanting a pro card............their doses make mine look like childs play, lol
    You were 275-280 and now your 240 with a target weight of 270? Either you are lazy and don't care about updating your stats, or you are lieing and trying to impress someone that doesn't care. 280 lbs at 6'2" and 13% body fat is what Arnold was in his prime in the off season. You have no Avi pic to prove anything you have said. I'm sorry, and no offense, but I have a really hard time believing anything you say. In fact, I can't even believe I'm wasting my time even responding to this nonsense.
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    Okay how about this then..

    Can anyone please explain exactly how it is toxic to the liver when its being injected and to what level of toxicity is to be expected?

    Or for that matter please explain why it would be considered toxic when tren is taken orally?
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Okay how about this then..

    Can anyone please explain exactly how it is toxic to the liver when its being injected and to what level of toxicity is to be expected?

    Or for that matter please explain why it would be considered toxic when tren is taken orally?
    Ok now I know Im argueing with sumone that has no business playing with injectables. Dood all steroids are converted in the liver, injs usually take a pass or 2, and orals 2-4 passes, methyls need a lot more werk to be converted in your liver, hence why we all say to only run so much for so long.


    What level of toxicity is entirely up to the user, as they adjust their doses, 400 mgs a week of tren ACE may cripple one and barely have an effect on another. its all about know yourself and self experimentation, based off similars types of peoples real world experiences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    Ok now I know Im argueing with sumone that has no business playing with injectables. Dood all steroids are converted in the liver, injs usually take a pass or 2, and orals 2-4 passes, methyls need a lot more werk to be converted in your liver, hence why we all say to only run so much for so long.


    What level of toxicity is entirely up to the user, as they adjust their doses, 400 mgs a week of tren ACE may cripple one and barely have an effect on another. its all about know yourself and self experimentation, based off similars types of peoples real world experiences.
    thank you, i honestly think most of these guys are talking out of their ass..........and never taken AAS just PHs............

    i mean you need a good connect, and if they are all about PHs then they dont have a connect at ALL!! lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan
    Dood all steroids are converted in the liver, injs usually take a pass or 2, and orals 2-4 passes, methyls need a lot more werk to be converted in your liver,
    Im confused...
    What does injectable testosterone 'convert' to in the liver?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    Im confused...
    What does injectable testosterone 'convert' to in the liver?
    it doesnt convert to anything unless body needs it too, but lets see there aromatization, theres the whole 5a conversion to DHT.... shal I continue
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    Ok now I know Im argueing with sumone that has no business playing with injectables. Dood all steroids are converted in the liver,
    no they dont

    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    injs usually take a pass or 2, and orals 2-4 passes, methyls need a lot more werk to be converted in your liver, hence why we all say to only run so much for so long.
    Oral tren would pose toxicity risk due to it being alkylated in the 17th position.

    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    What level of toxicity is entirely up to the user, as they adjust their doses, 400 mgs a week of tren ACE may cripple one and barely have an effect on another. its all about know yourself and self experimentation, based off similars types of peoples real world experiences.
    Can somewhat agree with this portion of your post. The amount taken and length of time will certainly contribute towards increased toxicity but injectable tren on its own, yes can be toxic but the toxicity is greatly over exaggerated. There is a theory that the elevated enzymes are actually a result of the benzyl alcohol and not the tren itself. But even then this is just a theory as BA as the evidence of BA toxicity comes from trials using absurd amounts. All and all injected tren when used reasonably (In regards to dos amount and length if use) poses very minimal toxicity. There is nothing that I no of that suggest otherwise other then the occasional anecdotal report which is usually sensationalized and/or the result of abuse or stacking with other AAS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    Im confused...
    What does injectable testosterone 'convert' to in the liver?
    Your not confused. He is

    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    it doesnt convert to anything unless body needs it too, but lets see there aromatization, theres the whole 5a conversion to DHT.... shal I continue
    Tren does not aromatize nor will it convert to DHT (although it does bind strongly with the androgen receptor within skeletal muscle cells, which can cause androgenic traits to appear ( ie: hair loss) but no DHT conversion takes place
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Your not confused. He is



    Tren does not aromatize nor will it convert to DHT (although it does bind strongly with the androgen receptor within skeletal muscle cells, which can cause androgenic traits to appear ( ie: hair loss) but no DHT conversion takes place
    your lost, Mattersby question wuz What does inj. Test convert to in the liver
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    people all AAS are run thru your liver, inj, oral, cyclo, or transdermal
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    your lost, Mattersby question wuz What does inj. Test convert to in the liver
    Yes and it was a response to your statement that, "all steroids convert in the liver" and in which case you are wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    people all AAS are run thru your liver, inj, oral, cyclo, or transdermal
    Oral steroids are absorbed from the GI tract and then pass through the liver before entering the blood. Most oral steroids are chemically modified (to prevent rapid breakdown) by the addition of a group of molecules at the alpha position of the number 17 carbon atom (alkylation) As a result of this, these C-17 alkylated steroids have a greater affect on your liver.

    Injectable steroids are absorbed directly into the blood stream without a first pass through the liver. Yes there are a few injevtable C-17 alkylated steroids that will have a similar hepatic affect as oral ones but the majority of injectable steroids only undergo esterification in the liver and to compare this process to the harsh effects of a oral steroid is naive.


    P.S

    Weren't you the one who claimed to have read all the books I posted earlier? I am confused why I am explaining this to you then since you read those books and should have this understanding already.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Yes and it was a response to your statement that, "all steroids convert in the liver" and in which case you are wrong.

    Not wrong

    Oral steroids are absorbed from the GI tract and then pass through the liver before entering the blood. Most oral steroids are chemically modified (to prevent rapid breakdown) by the addition of a group of molecules at the alpha position of the number 17 carbon atom (alkylation) As a result of this, these C-17 alkylated steroids have a greater affect on your liver.

    Injectable steroids are absorbed directly into the blood stream without a first pass through the liver. Yes there are a few injevtable C-17 alkylated steroids that will have a similar hepatic affect as oral ones but the majority of injectable steroids only undergo esterification in the liver and to compare this process to the harsh effects of a oral steroid is naive.


    P.S

    Weren't you the one who claimed to have read all the books I posted earlier? I am confused why I am explaining this to you then since you read those books and should have this understanding already.
    its nice of you to use quotes and exerps from Willims book, but still wrong all AAS takes a trip thru the liver
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    Even if injected the body still breaks it down. Just because it is not methyl dosent mean there is no harm. I talked to a med student before, she said even test-e is somewhat toxic because your kidneys have to work through the by producs attached to the testosterone, test suspension would be the most safe AAS. But the dangers of test-e are veryyyyy low which is why they are used trt without much worry
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    Didn't see this page looks like answer is already said
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasen View Post
    Even if injected the body still breaks it down. Just because it is not methyl dosent mean there is no harm. I talked to a med student before, she said even test-e is somewhat toxic because your kidneys have to work through the by producs attached to the testosterone, test suspension would be the most safe AAS. But the dangers of test-e are veryyyyy low which is why they are used trt without much worry
    OOOHHH yea renal damage is way more prevolent in BB world than hepatic. Hell the cleved ester is the smallest part of the issue renaly, its all the other **** you gotta worry about, the creatin levels and **** like that that are elevated during roid use
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    What ester and what doseage?
    Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    ur the f*ckin moron. this stuff has been tested on humans and released as a human drug. i've ran tren several times and had NONE OF THE SIDES ur stating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan

    it doesnt convert to anything unless body needs it too, but lets see there aromatization, theres the whole 5a conversion to DHT.... shal I continue
    Hey I'm new to this and still learning... Problem is, I thought, unless it's a 19-nor, aromatization occurs in just about every tissue in the body but the liver. And even if I'm misinformed, how does that make it toxic?
    So, the comment about ALL steroids passing through the liver or aromatizing in the liver may cause some disagreements.
    Of course your liver does need to break down and discard all kinds of excess, bi-products and waste, but thats why we have one. It can handle that.
    I have really enjoyed this thread and hope the arguing continues. I'm learning alot.
    Judo-Josh, I'm rooting for you on this one...
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    I think there is a lot of miscommunication in here about what "toxic" is referring to. That's what it sounds like to me, at least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    Hey I'm new to this and still learning... Problem is, I thought, unless it's a 19-nor, aromatization occurs in just about every tissue in the body but the liver. And even then, how does that make it toxic?
    So, the comment about ALL steroids passing through the liver or aromatizing in the liver may cause some disagreements.
    Of course your liver does need to break down and discard all kinds of excess, bi-products and waste, but thats why we have one. It can handle that.
    I have really enjoyed this thread and hope the arguing continues. I'm learning alot.
    Judo-Josh, I'm rooting for you on this one...
    I just come over here to play, this site has sum people ready to graduate but not many.

    Also dont muddy my statement that All AAS,DS, PHs pass thru the liver, with the actual actions of aromatization.
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    your running 700mgs of tren ace without sides, a lil hard to believe, but like I have said over and over, Different strokes.
    Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    trenbolone acetate. finaplix pellets. 75- 100mg ed if i go over 100mg ed i get slight gyno. the only side i ever experienced besides some hostility which i get from all androgens.
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    YES< MARGIRINE Is way toxic, that **** is one molecule away from plastic, even bugs dont eat it.
    Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    ya food has some nasty byproducts of metabolization. i guess food is toxic. lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyfespan View Post
    its nice of you to use quotes and exerps from Willims book, but still wrong all AAS takes a trip thru the liver
    Please show me where I stated that it wont go through the liver.

    Did you even read my post?

    It stated that " the majority of injectable steroids only undergo esterification in the liver"

    So this statement says injectables do go though your liver right?

    And before this portion of the post I clearly said "Oral steroids are absorbed from the GI tract and then pass through the liver before entering the blood"

    So where did I say it "wouldnt" go through the liver?

    I think you fail to understand my point in all of this. The thread was full of people posting these horror stories on trens toxicity affects (might I add a majority of the post were coming across as if they were definitive facts and as if they were an authority on the matter) I just questioned what everyone was basing these claims off of and listed a couple of great reference material with regards to anabolic and androgen use and pharmacology. No where did I state Tren was not toxic, as all AAS pose some form of toxicity risk in one way or another.

    What I disagree with is the emphatic postings trying to make tren seem like the worst steroid ever created. As I said earlier, yes it will pose some toxicity but when taken via injection the toxicity is really minimal and is often exaggerated. Once again, yes when injected it does pass through the liver (to undergo esterfication) but to compare this process to the harsh effects of a oral steroid is naive.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    I've worked in dialysis and actually did some research on high protein intake, elevated blood urea nitrogen, and even steroid abuse causing renal disease. It's extremely rare. Our bodies(unless disease is present) are able to take decades of abuse unless there are other health conditions factored in, such as Flex Wheelers kidney disease.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    Hey I'm new to this and still learning... Problem is, I thought, unless it's a 19-nor, aromatization occurs in just about every tissue in the body but the liver. And even if I'm misinformed, how does that make it toxic?
    Elevated liver enzymes is why it is believed tren is toxic. This itself is debatable since many things can show enzyme elevation but I would believe that all AAS pose some risk of toxicity and urge whoever to exercise caution and preventative measures with its use


    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    So, the comment about ALL steroids passing through the liver or aromatizing in the liver may cause some disagreements.
    yes they will have some interaction with your liver, to what degree will depend on what your taking, how much and for how long. Again, usually the effects on the liver are often way exaggerated, especially when you take into account the livers ability to naturally regenerate on its own. Add in some TUDCA on cycle and you really shouldnt have to worry that much about your liver at all. By far I would say the steroids effects on lipid levels should be much more of a concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    I have really enjoyed this thread and hope the arguing continues. I'm learning alot.
    Judo-Josh, I'm rooting for you on this one...
    Thank you but for the record, by no means am I an authority on this subject and I am always open to rebuttalls, corrections and discussion. What I am not open to is the petty name calling, e-gangsta posting, and chilidsh remarks.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Same here, I love learning. Don't even have an interest in Tren. Just found all the arguing entertaining and informative in this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    ur the f*ckin moron. this stuff has been tested on humans and released as a human drug. i've ran tren several times and had NONE OF THE SIDES ur stating.
    tren wasn't released for humans, it was for animals. nice try. you mad, bro?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    orals undergo first-pass metabolism in the liver as injectables do not.
    wrong again. while injectables don't hit the first time they still are metabolized and still affect the liver greatly. Bloods prove this, your ignorance doesn't.
  

  
 

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