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Banana - after training

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    Banana - after training


    Is a banana (well 2 in my case) enough to cause an insulin spike after training?


    I know it's full of sugar but a banana is medium on the GI index.


    I know maltodextrin and dextrose would most likely to be better, but was just wondering if 2 bananas would suffice?

    Cheers.

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    not sure. i like to eat a banana post but i usually have some form of simple carb as well.

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    Bananas are great for post workout but I would suggest trying to take them in with a complex carb source or one that will convert to glucose faster than the fructose in the bananas. Bananas are great at replenishing liver glycogen after a workout but it takes longer than glucose to replenish muscle glycogen.

    Do you have access to any other carb sources to bring with you? Whole wheat bread, bagels, so on?

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    Bananas aren't just fructose. In fact they're probably the fruit lowest in fructose...about 1/3 of the actual carb content. Bananas actually contain starch as well.

    They're a good choice PWO. Healthier than maltodextrin/glucose, too.

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    I'm pretty sure Bananas are atleast 1/2 fructose 1/2 dex. As the ripen thats a different story but for when I hope you would be eating them.

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    From a content of fructose in fruit table its something like out of 15.7 grams of carbs 4.2 glucose 3 fructose and 6.5 sucrose with a total metabolic sugar grams of 6.

    Better than I had thought but I would still want something other than just a banana for post workout.

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    http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

    Search for "bananas, raw"

    Put in 2 medium bananas

    Total carbs: 53.9g
    -sucrose: 5.64g
    -glucose: 11.75g
    -fructose: 11.45g
    -starch: 12.7

    I was actually a bit off...it's closer to only 1/4 fructose:
    -sucrose is half fructose, so (5.64/2+11.45)/53.9= 0.2647 or 26.47% fructose.

    Sure it changes as they ripen more, just don't go eating brown bananas.

    For most people bananas PWO would be fine. If you're a more advanced bodybuilder, then okay, but for most people it should work fine. I'm not trying to be a jerk but a lot of people on the boards (not saying you, OCCfan) hardly even look like they lift and they're worrying about bananas vs. dextrose/maltodextrin PWO.

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    Wow I wish I had seen that website a while back, I was unaware bananas were as starchy as they are. Thanks for the link man.

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    Don't forget than protein increases GI as well. I eat basmati rice or cereal after training with a banana and some form of protein.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

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    Actually I think if they're more ripe they'd have more glucose as the starch breaks down.

    That's very true...pair with some whey protein and the insulin response is jacked up quite a bit.

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    nice bit of info....

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    The difference in rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis between glucose and sucrose is very small. Thus, even 50% fructose in your postW shake shouldn't be an issue. Having some postW fructose versus none is actually a good thing from the standpoint of anabolic signalling. Also, spiking insulin postW is a practice rooted in myth and misunderstanding - it's simply not necessary, since small rises in insulin are all that's required for maximal net protein synthesis. Granted, it's a different story with large pharmacological doses of insulin - but not with insulin pulses from food. For a more indepth explanation of why insulin spiking isn't necessary, read the opening article here, I specifically address this issue on page 4:

    http://user210805.websitewizard.com/...R-Jan-2008.pdf

    To Bobo's credit, he's seen the holes in the quick carbs thing for a number years now... Does Bobo still post here, or is he too busy traveling the globe in a private jet with the Bobettes?

    Anyway, bananas are a great choice for your postW carbs. The whole waxy maize/quick carb thing is hilarious considering that it's only useful if you train to complete glycogen depletion multiple times a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alan aragon View Post
    The difference in rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis between glucose and sucrose is very small. Thus, even 50% fructose in your postW shake shouldn't be an issue. Having some postW fructose versus none is actually a good thing from the standpoint of anabolic signalling. Also, spiking insulin postW is a practice rooted in myth and misunderstanding - it's simply not necessary, simce small rises in insulin are all that's required for maximal net protein synthesis. Granted, it's a different story with large pharmacological doses of insulin - but not will insulin pulses from food. For a more indepth explanation of why insulin psiking isn't necessary, read the opening article here, I specifically address this issue on page 4:

    http://user210805.websitewizard.com/...R-Jan-2008.pdf

    To Bobo's credit, he's seen the holes in the quick carbs thing for a number years now... Does Bobo still post here, or is he too busy traveling the globe in a private jet with the Bobettes?

    Anyway, bananas are a great choice for your postW carbs. The whole waxy maize/quick carb thing is hilarious considering that it's only useful if you train to complete glycogen depletion multiple times a day.
    I agree; it is pointless to put your body under wild insulin swings.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

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    did someone say banana?

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    Very informative article Alan, and I completely agree with the slow releasing low GI carbs post work out (Being a Bobo client I learned from that.)

    Couple questions after reading it if you don't mind. When you said Whole Milk superior for increasing net protein balance is that referring to protein synthesis or just protein uptake into the muscle following training? Also in the "rapid" period of glycogenesis for 30-60 minutes following exercise if insulin isn't what makes it rapid is there another factor that makes it more crucial to take your post workout meal in that "anabolic window" (or is the whole "anabolic window" thing not as important as its made out to be?)

    I attempted to word that the best I could so apologies if it does not make sense.

    Bobo doesn't really post at all anymore (his FLA sub form is gone as well.) I haven;t really heard anything about/from him since I heard he was getting married.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCFan023 View Post
    Very informative article Alan, and I completely agree with the slow releasing low GI carbs post work out (Being a Bobo client I learned from that.)

    Couple questions after reading it if you don't mind. When you said Whole Milk superior for increasing net protein balance is that referring to protein synthesis or just protein uptake into the muscle following training?
    Amino acid uptake into muscle is an indicator of protein synthesis. When protein synthesis occurs at a greater rate than protein breakdown, there is a net positive gain in protein balance. In the milk study (which had its share of design issues), a greater net gain in protein balance occurred.
    Also in the "rapid" period of glycogenesis for 30-60 minutes following exercise if insulin isn't what makes it rapid is there another factor that makes it more crucial to take your post workout meal in that "anabolic window" (or is the whole "anabolic window" thing not as important as its made out to be?
    The whole anabolic window concept was born from research on the posttrained state of overnight-fasted individuals who had no pre or during-workout nutrition. Also, it was focused on expediting speed of glycogenesis - which means jack to trainees who first off don't train to full glycogen depletion, and secondly aren't forced to train those same glycogen-depleted muscles again in the same day.
    Bobo doesn't really post at all anymore (his FLA sub form is gone as well.) I haven;t really heard anything about/from him since I heard he was getting married.
    Marriage does change a few things, I'm going on my 9th year of it - and amazingly living to tell about it

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    Thanks for the insight, very helpful learning why certain techniques are used and the reasoning behind it. Its very interesting that the whole anabolic "window" is over emphasized quite a bit (but it really makes sense especially when I think about all the CKD stuff when its really crucial then to take in high GI liquid carbs directly after the depletion workout at the start of the carb up.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by OCCFan023 View Post
    Its very interesting that the whole anabolic "window" is over emphasized quite a bit (but it really makes sense especially when I think about all the CKD stuff when its really crucial then to take in high GI liquid carbs directly after the depletion workout at the start of the carb up.)
    High-GI liquid carbs after a depletion workout on CKD would only be useful if those same glycogen-depleted muscles had to be trained again within the same day. Otherwise, any ole' whole food or whole food-based carb source will do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil5585 View Post
    http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

    Search for "bananas, raw"

    Put in 2 medium bananas

    Total carbs: 53.9g
    -sucrose: 5.64g
    -glucose: 11.75g
    -fructose: 11.45g
    -starch: 12.7

    I was actually a bit off...it's closer to only 1/4 fructose:
    -sucrose is half fructose, so (5.64/2+11.45)/53.9= 0.2647 or 26.47% fructose.

    Sure it changes as they ripen more, just don't go eating brown bananas.

    For most people bananas PWO would be fine. If you're a more advanced bodybuilder, then okay, but for most people it should work fine. I'm not trying to be a jerk but a lot of people on the boards (not saying you, OCCfan) hardly even look like they lift and they're worrying about bananas vs. dextrose/maltodextrin PWO.
    Thank you very much.

    I go with 2 plus my bcaa and whey.

    Some great info on here fellas.

    Thanks to OCCfan aswel..

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    Quote Originally Posted by alan aragon View Post
    The difference in rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis between glucose and sucrose is very small. Thus, even 50% fructose in your postW shake shouldn't be an issue. Having some postW fructose versus none is actually a good thing from the standpoint of anabolic signalling. Also, spiking insulin postW is a practice rooted in myth and misunderstanding - it's simply not necessary, since small rises in insulin are all that's required for maximal net protein synthesis. Granted, it's a different story with large pharmacological doses of insulin - but not with insulin pulses from food. For a more indepth explanation of why insulin spiking isn't necessary, read the opening article here, I specifically address this issue on page 4:

    http://user210805.websitewizard.com/...R-Jan-2008.pdf

    To Bobo's credit, he's seen the holes in the quick carbs thing for a number years now... Does Bobo still post here, or is he too busy traveling the globe in a private jet with the Bobettes?

    Anyway, bananas are a great choice for your postW carbs. The whole waxy maize/quick carb thing is hilarious considering that it's only useful if you train to complete glycogen depletion multiple times a day.
    That's great. Thanks.

    I'd heard that it wasn't totally necessary before but can't remember where i heard it or how much substance was behind the claim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alan aragon View Post
    The difference in rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis between glucose and sucrose is very small. Thus, even 50% fructose in your postW shake shouldn't be an issue. Having some postW fructose versus none is actually a good thing from the standpoint of anabolic signalling. Also, spiking insulin postW is a practice rooted in myth and misunderstanding - it's simply not necessary, since small rises in insulin are all that's required for maximal net protein synthesis. Granted, it's a different story with large pharmacological doses of insulin - but not with insulin pulses from food. For a more indepth explanation of why insulin spiking isn't necessary, read the opening article here, I specifically address this issue on page 4:

    http://user210805.websitewizard.com/...R-Jan-2008.pdf

    To Bobo's credit, he's seen the holes in the quick carbs thing for a number years now... Does Bobo still post here, or is he too busy traveling the globe in a private jet with the Bobettes?

    Anyway, bananas are a great choice for your postW carbs. The whole waxy maize/quick carb thing is hilarious considering that it's only useful if you train to complete glycogen depletion multiple times a day.
    Great post Alan - as usual. Need more voices of reason in this industry.

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    Bananas are like my favourite pre and post workout foods. They're great. Then again I don't buy all this take-80g-sugar-give-yourself-type-two-diabetes post workout cocktail stuff so I might not be the most appropriate person to listen to if you believe spiking your insulin post-workout is important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lector606 View Post
    Bananas are like my favourite pre and post workout foods. They're great. Then again I don't buy all this take-80g-sugar-give-yourself-type-two-diabetes post workout cocktail stuff so I might not be the most appropriate person to listen to if you believe spiking your insulin post-workout is important.
    youve got some crazy abs bro!!! damn id like some like those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    youve got some crazy abs bro!!! damn id like some like those.
    Stop taking those high GI carbs PWO

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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    youve got some crazy abs bro!!! damn id like some like those.
    haha thanks man, ya maybe it has something to do with not putting 80g of dextrose in my shakes

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    Quote Originally Posted by lector606 View Post
    Bananas are like my favourite pre and post workout foods. They're great. Then again I don't buy all this take-80g-sugar-give-yourself-type-two-diabetes post workout cocktail stuff so I might not be the most appropriate person to listen to if you believe spiking your insulin post-workout is important.
    80g of Post workout maltodextrin wont give you type 2 diabetes will it? It's right after your workout and none of it gets stored. If you took that at night or something I can understand. If this is the case I'm paranoid now, I only get 60g but still.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lector606 View Post
    haha thanks man, ya maybe it has something to do with not putting 80g of dextrose in my shakes
    lol naw it's all about low body fat, if you've been training abs for years you have it just drop to 5-9 body fat and it'll definitely show. I love bulking because I don't put too much fat on when I bulk(ecto ) but I love to cut more so I look ripped. Good job though dude takes a lot of decipline!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexParty View Post
    80g of Post workout maltodextrin wont give you type 2 diabetes will it? It's right after your workout and none of it gets stored. If you took that at night or something I can understand. If this is the case I'm paranoid now, I only get 60g but still.
    haha i'm just exaggerating, no it won't give you type two diabetes, or at least i don't think so

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    Quote Originally Posted by lector606 View Post
    haha i'm just exaggerating, no it won't give you type two diabetes, or at least i don't think so
    Now I'm even MORE paranoid!!!!! j/k

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    combining your carbs with protein will get you a way better 'spike' than just carbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevf View Post
    combining your carbs with protein will get you a way better 'spike' than just carbs.
    Ya I use to just down carbs but I added like 40g of protein to my carbs. I want my carbs to be higher though for a post shake. I recently bought post workout by Muscle Asylum... love the flavor and benefits, but over priced for the amount, wont buy it again because of the $$$ but great product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevf View Post
    combining your carbs with protein will get you a way better 'spike' than just carbs.
    You will get a larger spike by taking the calories contributed from the protein and just replacing them with the equivalent in more dextrose.

    That said, I think it's better to focus on providing your body with appropriate calories and macros not spiking insulin. Have you ever seen any methods on how you actually measure your insulin? You can't without a lab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexParty View Post
    80g of Post workout maltodextrin wont give you type 2 diabetes will it? It's right after your workout and none of it gets stored. If you took that at night or something I can understand. If this is the case I'm paranoid now, I only get 60g but still.
    Sorry to say but just because it's PWO doesn't mean that you can eat everything in sight and none will get stored as fat. A workout will create a finite energy deficit and if you exceed it, the surplus will go into storage. If you're a big guy you can get away with more, less if you're slight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Sorry to say but just because it's PWO doesn't mean that you can eat everything in sight and none will get stored as fat. A workout will create a finite energy deficit and if you exceed it, the surplus will go into storage. If you're a big guy you can get away with more, less if you're slight.
    I'm talking about a simple carb like Malto, it's not going to be stored after a post workout man, 80gs I admit is a lot, I only take 60 at most and that's directly after my workout, your body needs that especially if you had a heavy workout. I supplement with 40g of protein with the malto. I don't think it's possible for any of it to be stored as fat, read enough articles about this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexParty View Post
    I'm talking about a simple carb like Malto, it's not going to be stored after a post workout man, 80gs I admit is a lot, I only take 60 at most and that's directly after my workout, your body needs that especially if you had a heavy workout. I supplement with 40g of protein with the malto. I don't think it's possible for any of it to be stored as fat, read enough articles about this.
    I am confused, why would you need to have 60 grams of malto? Do you have another event/training session within a couple of hours, or in a short enough time frame that you need to replenish glycogen right away?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lector606 View Post
    you need to replenish glycogen right away?
    that's why

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    People have different methods, I'm not telling anyone what to do. Do what you think is right for you, that's all. I'm an athlete, play AAA soccer so it's needed.

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    What are everyone's thoughts on Vitargo and Vitargo knock offs? The feedback seems pretty good but it's difficult to tell if that's just from the supposed feeling of insulin spike or if it's truely beneficial.

    Personally, I just take in 40g whey and 40g of whatever carbs I can get my hands on to keep my macro ratios.

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    Quote Originally Posted by celc5 View Post
    What are everyone's thoughts on Vitargo and Vitargo knock offs? The feedback seems pretty good but it's difficult to tell if that's just from the supposed feeling of insulin spike or if it's truely beneficial.

    Personally, I just take in 40g whey and 40g of whatever carbs I can get my hands on to keep my macro ratios.
    You're talking about right after a workout?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexParty View Post
    You're talking about right after a workout?
    Yup, I guess I should have said that

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