Velocity diet vs Intermittent/Alternating Day Fasting

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    Velocity diet vs Intermittent/Alternating Day Fasting


    Which makes more sense? staying at 1200-1500 cal a day workout + non workout days, or taking in normal cals workout days (call it 3000) and NOTHING the alternate days. or the intermittent variations, always having a breakfast, but on non workout days having nothing else, and on all days no food after 6pm (but on the workout days hitting normal cals before 6)

    Theres not much in science to support any of them really, but wondering about people who have tried them. I'm doing a velocity diet type, but including some solids. Still things like low fat turkey breast slices, etc so the macros + total cals are staying right.
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    Going to low cals means you will definetly lose LBM.

    1 LB of fat can only lose approximately 31 calories a day....
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    well given the amount of fat I still have left, i'm still safe at that as i'm still at around 30lbs of fat on me.
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    Hey Easy,

    Your thread title might as well read,

    Roseanne Barr Vs Rosie O'Donnell

    There are better roads to take than either one of those.
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    Name one Its not a challenge so much as i'd like to hear the answer
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Name one Its not a challenge so much as i'd like to hear the answer
    The usual suspects...

    -- Maintain a weekly caloric deficit, keep the bulk of existing carbs near training
    -- Get enough protein
    -- Do carb-ups only as/if needed
    -- Get 6-7 tons of patience & consistency.

    Best way I can put it for now. Gotta go get me some food.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan aragon View Post
    Hey Easy,

    Your thread title might as well read,

    Roseanne Barr Vs Rosie O'Donnell

    There are better roads to take than either one of those.
    roseanne all the way

    what is your favorite diet for losing fat and retaining muscle alan? You are pretty much the go to guy on diet, so I'd love to hear it
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    I think the IF approach would be better given the cyclic nature of it. If you go with option 2, it appears your cals are too low and you will most likely stall out and lose LBM.

    Also, there is some research supporting IF. In your situation IF might be better... Perhaps not IF in the strictest sense, but more of a PSMF type approach. There is a whole thread discussing this approach over at Mind & Muscle which has been getting some play lately. They even review Alan's take on it....I know he's not keen on the idea, but it does have some merit, in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan aragon View Post
    The usual suspects...

    -- Maintain a weekly caloric deficit, keep the bulk of existing carbs near training
    -- Get enough protein
    -- Do carb-ups only as/if needed
    -- Get 6-7 tons of patience & consistency.

    Best way I can put it for now. Gotta go get me some food.
    Do you have a source for that bulk patience cheap? I've looked for years....

    Yeah, thats more or less what i've done over the last year. Under 75g of carbs non workout days, rarely more than 125 on workout days, at least 200g / day of protein, remainder in mostly healthy fats (some less healthy fats in meats). with no purposeful carb ups. just progress has seemed slower as I got closer, and so i've decided to short term ratchet it up a notch.

    I know one of the particular reasons to NOT use either of those methods (VD or IF) is that it doesn't build the long term habits of how you need to eat for the next x years of your life. At this point tho, i've built those. I just want abs for swimming season, and in florida that is starting the end of this month
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    Aragons advice sounds sensible.

    You can also trial your 2 options as well EASYJL. Try one out for a week or 2, try the other out. Your head and body might prefer one over another.
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    I've been doing the velocity for a full week now. Its not too bad really. I think the IF might make for slightly better workouts, but i'm not sure if it makes that much difference. today I was right on border of 188-189, so I only have 8-10lbs to go. Given that last wed I weight 196, I could be there in just about a week at current rate, which is freakish
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    Oh no you are running out of pounds to lose. You might not have enough to spare to trial IF. I wish I was running out in a similar fashion
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    its been a long hard 14-15 months

    the only reason i'm doing this now is that since I did a few short bulks in the middle, i didn't get to seeing abs yet. The bulks were each in their own way a mistake, but learning mistakes.
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    Why were your bulks mistakes?
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    well, because for each I wasn't really lean enough to be easily able to watch how much fat I gained while gaining muscle. the last one was far better, but on one I think I got about 50/50 fat and muscle.

    I think it would have been simpler had I just gotten down to the definition level I want to stay at first, and then started on lean bulks
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    Quote Originally Posted by lethaljd View Post
    I think the IF approach would be better given the cyclic nature of it. If you go with option 2, it appears your cals are too low and you will most likely stall out and lose LBM.

    Also, there is some research supporting IF. In your situation IF might be better... Perhaps not IF in the strictest sense, but more of a PSMF type approach. There is a whole thread discussing this approach over at Mind & Muscle which has been getting some play lately. They even review Alan's take on it....I know he's not keen on the idea, but it does have some merit, in my opinion.
    Ive been on the IF diet for about a month now. Absolutely love it. Ive researched it (bigtime), read many of threads on it, and decided to give it a whirl. My opinions are what has happened to me in a little over a month on the IF DIET. I know A.Aragon doesnt agree with it, but science supports both ways of supplying your body with nutrients. You can always find articles to support either side. Regardless, it makes my life SO MUCH EASIER....did you hear that? EASIER...Here are my takes on it.

    1) I fast from midnight - 5pm, then eat my calories from 5pm-midnight

    2) Fasting is relatively easy, nothing too hard for me with not eating.

    3) Fasted workouts are AWESOME. I have more energy and lift harder and lift more on a fasted workout. (i supplement GMS, yohimbine, caffeine, creatine on workout days)

    4) Strength is up.

    5) Ive lost approx 5lbs. If i would eat just a little cleaner on the weekends, im sure i would lose a little more.

    6) makes my life easier. No more planning 5 meals a day....when to eat...what to eat....timing preworkout meals...blah blah blah....sometimes people are extremely busy and just cant organize this stuff CONSISTENLY for months at a time. It is easy to organize meals for a week, but how consistent are u for months on end? hmmm.

    thanks
    msucurt
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    Quote Originally Posted by msucurt View Post
    Ive been on the IF diet for about a month now. Absolutely love it. Ive researched it (bigtime), read many of threads on it, and decided to give it a whirl. My opinions are what has happened to me in a little over a month on the IF DIET. I know A.Aragon doesnt agree with it, but science supports both ways of supplying your body with nutrients. You can always find articles to support either side. Regardless, it makes my life SO MUCH EASIER....did you hear that? EASIER...Here are my takes on it.

    1) I fast from midnight - 5pm, then eat my calories from 5pm-midnight

    2) Fasting is relatively easy, nothing too hard for me with not eating.

    3) Fasted workouts are AWESOME. I have more energy and lift harder and lift more on a fasted workout. (i supplement GMS, yohimbine, caffeine, creatine on workout days)

    4) Strength is up.

    5) Ive lost approx 5lbs. If i would eat just a little cleaner on the weekends, im sure i would lose a little more.

    6) makes my life easier. No more planning 5 meals a day....when to eat...what to eat....timing preworkout meals...blah blah blah....sometimes people are extremely busy and just cant organize this stuff CONSISTENLY for months at a time. It is easy to organize meals for a week, but how consistent are u for months on end? hmmm.

    thanks
    msucurt

    Curt,
    When you do eat, do you have a certain macro ratio that you try to hit each night, or do you just freestyle and go with whatever you are feeling but try to stay on a healthy note?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lethaljd View Post
    Curt,
    When you do eat, do you have a certain macro ratio that you try to hit each night, or do you just freestyle and go with whatever you are feeling but try to stay on a healthy note?
    lethal....again, i try and make my life as easy as possible. I workout 3x a week....fullbody. I am in and out of the gym in a little over an hour. I go home and eat. So back to the point, i dont scrutinize every calorie....but im educated enough to know about what is right....i try to stay around 2200 or 3000 calories everday. Maybe i go over, maybe i go under. I thought i would do the IF thing without being so technical for a month. Now that i love the diet, i am going to start adhering to certain calorie numbers in a slightly stricter manner, but not so strict that i cant enjoy anything....ya know?

    Basically...just try to eat healthy or somewhat healthy. You get the idea.
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    easy ive been playing with a modified velocity diet myself. Im trying to find the right mix. What ive been going with the past week is 3 ON brand shakes w/ water during the work day, every three hours. I teach so im done with work around 2. When i get home i mix in turkey brest/chicken/ or something similar. pre work out shake around 5...post shake after. a few hours later ill try either chicken/turkey or some cottage cheese. My weight loss has been stalled so im trying something/ANYTHING different. im down about 60 since sept, with good muscle gain. let me know when you find the "perfect" solution so we can market it.

    dan
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    What sort of calorie range you hitting? I'm using the diet tracker here, been from 1000-1500 a day now for a week, down just about 7-8 lbs
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    im hitting around the same range but towards the lower part of it id say around 1200. If i can stay away from the natural peanut butter. My body is very card sensitve so the only carbs i get come from the shakes and cc. Im around 270 now...and i know thats extremely low to be at to retain my muscle mass. But i supplement with bcaa's, creatine, and all the usual suspects. all my lifts continue to go up so i guess somethings working out. Im at that wall point though cause the scale isn't moving. I guess my muscle is holding strong though. im starting dcp/leviathan with it next week and mixing drive back in with my rpm

    dan
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    I think that IF is fine for some people, but not for all people. I'd say that only a minority of the fitness/bodybuilding population would do well with it.

    For those who like to read, here's my IF article:

    An Objective Look at Intermittent Fasting - AlanAragon.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Do you have a source for that bulk patience cheap? I've looked for years....

    Yeah, thats more or less what i've done over the last year. Under 75g of carbs non workout days, rarely more than 125 on workout days, at least 200g / day of protein, remainder in mostly healthy fats (some less healthy fats in meats). with no purposeful carb ups. just progress has seemed slower as I got closer, and so i've decided to short term ratchet it up a notch.

    I know one of the particular reasons to NOT use either of those methods (VD or IF) is that it doesn't build the long term habits of how you need to eat for the next x years of your life. At this point tho, i've built those. I just want abs for swimming season, and in florida that is starting the end of this month
    Unless you progress has stopped completely, I suggest you continue what you've been doing. It's not like a switch over to the V-diet or IF will suddenly accelerate your fat loss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I think it would have been simpler had I just gotten down to the definition level I want to stay at first, and then started on lean bulks
    That is always the way to go, IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan aragon View Post
    I think that IF is fine for some people, but not for all people. I'd say that only a minority of the fitness/bodybuilding population would do well with it.

    For those who like to read, here's my IF article:

    An Objective Look at Intermittent Fasting - AlanAragon.com
    Thanks for the link; it sounds interesting. I wouldnt mind trying it just to see how it goes, but about once a month or so I go out for a few beers and always need a big breakfast the next day around noon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IvyLeaguePump View Post
    Thanks for the link; it sounds interesting. I wouldnt mind trying it just to see how it goes, but about once a month or so I go out for a few beers and always need a big breakfast the next day around noon.
    IVY, ive been doing IF for mon-fri, and then on sat, sun, i do eat a breakfast, lunch....basically eat normal. It probably isnt the most ideal way of doing IF, but it is working pretty well for me...

    thanks
    msucurt
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    If you are looking for an alternative diet look into a Keto diet
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan aragon View Post
    Hey Easy,

    Your thread title might as well read,

    Roseanne Barr Vs Rosie O'Donnell

    There are better roads to take than either one of those.
    lmao, so true
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