Gr-Easy EJL's fish oil megadosing ala Charles Poliquin thread

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  1. Right now i'm taking vitamin shoppe brand in liquid, and its costing under $1/day. Custom Nutrition Warehouse (a board sponsor) has their caps at a ridiculously low price too - 1000 1g caps for $28 I think, so also under $1/day.

    I think right now my macros are around 40carb/30pro/30fat workout days and 30/40/30 non workout. basically on workout days I am taking in an extra 100~150g of carbs just to survive thru GVT. Its hard to say where I am vs maintenance, since I think I have light thyroid issues and slow metabolism. my personal belief is that normal day maintenance is around 1800 or so. Right now i'm between 3600-4000 cal workout days and 3200-3600 non workout. I wouldn't normally go so high on fats, but what can I do when i'm trying to take in red meat, and taking 45g of fish oil a day? When I go to cutting it will radically change as i'll hardly take in any fat besides the fish oil, and get more of my protein from shakes, and most of my carbs from fruit.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I think right now my macros are around 40carb/30pro/30fat workout days and 30/40/30 non workout. basically on workout days I am taking in an extra 100~150g of carbs just to survive thru GVT. Its hard to say where I am vs maintenance, since I think I have light thyroid issues and slow metabolism. my personal belief is that normal day maintenance is around 1800 or so. Right now i'm between 3600-4000 cal workout days and 3200-3600 non workout. .
    So, do you think that the gains are due to primarily the fish oil or the double maintenance cals? Or a combination of both?
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  3. of course you can't get gains without going over maintenance cals, thats basically against the laws of physics (sort of like believing that michael jackson had little boys in his bed and poured wine down their throats and then just read bedtime stories). So gaining scale weight has to come from that. But I attribute the fact that its all lean mass (i've got increased definition vs when I was 12 lbs lower) to the fish oil / incarnate / leviathan combo

  4. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    of course you can't get gains without going over maintenance cals, thats basically against the laws of physics (sort of like believing that michael jackson had little boys in his bed and poured wine down their throats and then just read bedtime stories). So gaining scale weight has to come from that. But I attribute the fact that its all lean mass (i've got increased definition vs when I was 12 lbs lower) to the fish oil / incarnate / leviathan combo
    I savvy!

  5. Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    Can you explain what this means to me please, I do not fully understand what you are saying here?

    Much Love,

    Neoborn


    It appears I may have mis-read what LEF was talking about in regards to fish and sesame oil. Thus far, aside from thinning of the blood, I can't find any dangers in using large amounts of fish oil. If the argument that Poliquin present is correct..ie our ancestors used to consume the 30-45 grams per day..then there's likely no danger.

    Other than going broke.
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  6. 10oz of salmon a day is over 2g of DHA....

  7. I'm trying this out right now too. I've been around 40 g a day of the liquid fish oils for about 4 days and am noticing improved mood, if nothing else. I'm interested to see what what kind of results I'm going to get with this.

    Also, I've read on other boards that many people don't like the caps because they don't seem to have the same results. Some have speculated that the encapsulation process may compromise the integrity of the oil. I have no idea idea if this theory has any validity, but I've dosed as high as 20 g a day with the caps, and noticed no discerable effects.

    But with the liquid, I have definately noticed an improvement in mood and the way I handle myself; I seem to be more talkative and happy to deal with people, if that makes any sense.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by illfoo View Post
    But with the liquid, I have definately noticed an improvement in mood and the way I handle myself; I seem to be more talkative and happy to deal with people, if that makes any sense.
    you are well oiled now so everything goes smoother! sigh, lame joke

  9. Quote Originally Posted by illfoo View Post
    Also, I've read on other boards that many people don't like the caps because they don't seem to have the same results. Some have speculated that the encapsulation process may compromise the integrity of the oil. I have no idea idea if this theory has any validity, but I've dosed as high as 20 g a day with the caps, and noticed no discerable effects.

    I've heard the same things about Flax Seed Oil. The health benegits are pronounced with the liquid but nowhere as obvious w/ the same dose in capsules. I belive that it has something to do, as you alluded to, with the process.

    E, do you keep your oil refrigerated? I know Flax oil must be refrigerated or it gets rancid. Of course, since you finish off a bottle in a week, there is no time to get rancid, huh?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by thewilman View Post
    I've heard the same things about Flax Seed Oil. The health benegits are pronounced with the liquid but nowhere as obvious w/ the same dose in capsules. I belive that it has something to do, as you alluded to, with the process.

    E, do you keep your oil refrigerated? I know Flax oil must be refrigerated or it gets rancid. Of course, since you finish off a bottle in a week, there is no time to get rancid, huh?
    my fish, flax and coconut oils all stay refrigerated once opened. I wonder if its more the omega 3 in general that his this effect, or if its fish specifically? like I wonder if flax oil would give similar results at same doses

  11. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    my fish, flax and coconut oils all stay refrigerated once opened. I wonder if its more the omega 3 in general that his this effect, or if its fish specifically? like I wonder if flax oil would give similar results at same doses
    Great question...there are many who hail Flax Seed Oil in large doses as a panacea - capable of curing all kinds of ailments up to and incluiding cancer. Not to mention, fat loss properties as well.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by thewilman View Post
    Great question...there are many who hail Flax Seed Oil in large doses as a panacea - capable of curing all kinds of ailments up to and incluiding cancer. Not to mention, fat loss properties as well.
    I'm not doing 80g of oils total a day

  13. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I'm not doing 80g of oils total a day
    Wow how do you dose all of that?

    During my CKD i plan on 30gr Flax, 30gr Fish, 6gr CLA and 3.75ml Seasathin. I also looking into 1TBS Coconut Oil pre-workout. That'll put me near 72gr a day of fats.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  14. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I'm not doing 80g of oils total a day
    Maybe 20g Fish and 20g Flax

  15. Quote Originally Posted by thewilman View Post
    Maybe 20g Fish and 20g Flax
    what about baconfat? i'd really rather add that

  16. man I read the wrong easy my bad
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  17. is there EPA + DHA in flax oil? I'm looking to find dosages of it

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    man I read the wrond easy my bad
    I'm just scared that wilman will talk me into it. between him + xjsynx they've got me doing 40gs of fish oil, and doing GVT as a workout scheme. I think they are using jedi mind magic

  19. HAHA I got you.

    Well wilman & xjsynx if you can wait until Jan 3rd I'll be doing most all that on my CKD, minus the GVT. The GVT may kill me while bulking
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    HAHA I got you.

    Well wilman & xjsynx if you can wait until Jan 3rd I'll be doing most all that on my CKD, minus the GVT. The GVT may kill me while bulking
    its meant for bulking!

  21. So here's some skinny on Flax seed oil, and the DHA/EPA. Realistically I think that a significant fraction of the benefit of this megadosing comes from reaching the 2g of DHA mark. Its almost enough for me to buy the biotest flameout instead of loose oil (but not quite)


    Flax oil composition

    While flax seeds are an excellent source of omega 3 fat, they only contain one basic member of the omega 3 fat family. In the case of flax, virtually all of the omega 3 fat is found in the form of alpha linolenic acid (also just called linolenic acid). This specific kind of omega 3 fat makes up about 50% of the oil in flax seeds. In a 1-gram capsule of flax oil, there are about 500 milligrams of linolenic acid.

    The omega 3 assembly line starts with linolenic acid

    So that you can better understand how the fact that flax seeds feature a concentration of linolenic acid impacts their potential ability to be an overall good source of omega 3s, let's start with a basic chemistry review of the omega 3 family of fats.

    Omega 3s are a very diverse group of fats. Yet, all of the members fall into a basic pattern that can be imagined as a kind of metabolic assembly line.

    Fats can be measured in length according to the number of carbon atoms that they contain. Linolenic acid, that which is concentrated in flax seeds, has 18 carbons, making it the shortest of the omega 3 fats, and hence the simplest. It retains a position at the beginning of the assembly line with our omega 3 metabolism starting with this compound as a building block.

    Linolenic acid gets elongated into other omega 3 fatty acids

    If another pair of carbon atoms gets added on to linolenic acid (a process called "elongation" in biochemistry, and a process that is carried out by enzymes called "elongases"), it gets ready to become EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid), another important member of the omega 3 family. If yet another pair of carbons are added to EPA, it in turn gets ready to become DHA, (docosahexaenoic acid), a third important member of the omega 3s.

    Linolenic acids gets desaturated into other omega 3 fatty acids

    The reason we say that these omega 3 fats "get ready" to turn into other forms is because getting longer is not the only requirement for conversion of one omega 3 to another. A second requirement is what's called "increased desaturation." During this process, the omega 3 fat gets altered chemically so that its carbon atoms are connected together in a new way that provides more flexibility to the fat. This new kind of connection is called double-bonding. For linolenic acid (our starting point for the omega 3 assembly line) to become EPA, two new double bonds must be added in addition to the 2-carbon atom increase in length.

    The role of other nutrients in omega 3 metabolism

    The process of lengthening and changing, of elongating and desaturating, the chemical bonds in omega 3 fat is complex, and many nutrients are required to bring it about. To get from linolenic acid, the start of the omega 3 assembly line, to EPA, for example, the required nutrients are: vitamin B3, vitamin B6, vitamin C, zinc, and magnesium.

  22. O i know but it just seems way to tough for me even with bulking and eating everything is site.

    I'm going to be cutting on the CKD and it would def. kill me then.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  23. All that fish oil would mean too much vitamin E...

  24. BTW, Distilled...when I write Flax Oil...I mean Flax Oil...not what Barry thinks is Flax Oil! Da Clear Baby!

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    O i know but it just seems way to tough for me even with bulking and eating everything is site.

    I'm going to be cutting on the CKD and it would def. kill me then.
    legs day completely kills me (that was today). I'm half asleep the rest of the day
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