New to training. Need help with nutrition
- 06-18-2007, 06:27 PM
New to training. Need help with nutrition
Hi. Im 17 and very new to training. Ive tried to learn about the proper nutririon you need to effectivly gain muscle but it is very confusing as everything i read says different. I was wondering if someone could explain
1. how much carbs, protein and fat i should consume each day?
2. what are good sources for carbs, protein and fat?
3. how to properly calculate how much varbs, proteion and fat i am consuming
4. when to consume
this would help alot. Im not sure if it makes a difference but i am 5'10, 145 pounds, with a generally thin build.
- 06-18-2007, 07:20 PM
1) i think that depends on what your goal is. I think 40% carbs, 40% protein, 20% fat is a good starting place for most people, but i could be wrong... also i think its about 1.5-2grams of protein/lb of weight. so for 145 lbs: 217.5-290 grams protein/day.
2)Protein: Whey, dairy, egg, poultry, fish
Carbs: whole wheat bread, spaghetti, rice, oatmeal
Fat: fish, nuts
There's a bunch but thats a very small list
3)i think fitday.com is pretty good for calculating everything, but you need to know how much of each thing you're eating.
4) eat 5-6 meals spread throughout the day, about every 2-3 hours.
just my 2 cents, but im sure there are more educated people on here that can give you a better answer. you might want to say what your goal is to help people out, but i would assume that it is to bulk?
- 06-18-2007, 10:34 PM
Are you lean or just thin?
If you're not under 10% body fat (think 6-pack) then I wouldn't eat so many carbs. And I'd recommend only eating fruits and veggies.
You're very young. Slow and steady wins the race, no need to forefeed yourself and then find you have to cut, just stay ripped and healthy.
06-18-2007, 10:38 PM
Oh yeah, most people will tell you to eat a ton of protein. Maybe its better to err on the higher side of protein intake, but for your weight just make sure you're getting at least 100g per day, higher on lifting days (specifically for your post workout meal).
Don't fear the fat. Especially omega3 fatty acids. Grab some quality fish oil. I use carlsons.
This is a nutrition forum but this will be just as important:
Deadlift and squat at least once a week. Do dips and pullups. Eat. Sleep. Get muscular.
06-19-2007, 05:01 PM
Thanks alot. That helps huge.
06-19-2007, 05:22 PM
Would you suggest using any supplements? If so which ones and how much.
06-19-2007, 05:24 PM
Sure. I'd also say eat tons of vegetables. Not just for long-term health, (which is a definite plus (but maybe not your priority right now), but because they're filled with different phytochemicals and nutrients that interact with your body chemistry in positive ways.
Don't always eat the same vegetables, either, always change things up.
06-19-2007, 05:29 PM
If you eat meat that isn't grass fed or fish, I'd recommend taking a teaspoon of a high quality fish oil to balance out the omega-6 fatty acids in grain fed meat. Grass fed beef, on the other hand, has a better ratio of omega3 to omega6.
Otherwise, don't worry too much about supplements. Food will be fine.
Some people will say you need protein shakes. Especially at your weight, I don't think its necessary, as your protein requirements should be easily met through whole food (unless money is an issue). Strive to eat quality food, and nothing processed.
06-19-2007, 05:32 PM
Ok sounds good. Where would i buy high quality fish oil. Ive also been told to use creatine monohydrate? Whats your input on this
06-19-2007, 05:44 PM
search google for carlson's fish oil (not cod liver oil, as this contains vitamin A, which is good, but you can get too much of it). Find the lowest price, i forget where i got mine, might've even been vitamin shoppe.com. i believe it was about 24 dollars for a bottle. not only your muscles, but your brain will thank you.
creatine....works, sort've. Some people seem to be non-responders, however. It will likely put a few lbs of water on you fairly quickly. When I was taking it I was slightly stronger in the gym, but it wasn't worth feeling bulky. I prefer to have a higher power to bodyweight ratio, and I like to be fast and light on my feet. creatine will not be good for this, in my opinion. there is also the matter of your body becoming less efficient at transporting creatine.
I'd say skip it.
The runner up to fish oil, in my experience, is ZMA. This is Zinc, magnesium, and B6. It helps a bit with recovery and some (including myself) say it helps with sleep as well. These two things are obviously interrelated. You can buy this as ZMA, or you can buy 30mg of zinc, 10 mg of b-6(or a bit more if you can't find dosage that low, its water soluble, but expect weird dreams while its circulating), and 450 mg of magnesium.
Again, this isn't necessary/as important as fish oil.
06-19-2007, 05:47 PM
ok ill stick with the fish oil. thanks alot
06-19-2007, 05:58 PM
ok i found some that comes in 1000mg bottles of tabs. how much do you need to take a day?
06-19-2007, 06:00 PM
06-19-2007, 06:01 PM
i normally take about a gram or gram and a half with each meat meal....
06-19-2007, 06:02 PM
but i would recommend oil, not tabs. i even actually think liquid to be better than capsules, although that may not make much difference.
06-19-2007, 06:09 PM
sorry i mean bottles of capsules that contain 1000 mg of fish oil in each capsule
06-19-2007, 06:10 PM
That should be ok. What brand? I still stand by my recommendation of Carlson's Norwegian Liquid Fish Oil.
06-21-2007, 12:50 PM
I think you will have problems getting enought protein from your food consistently, especially post workout when the last thing you want to do is eat. Also a slow release protein shake right before bed is a must IMO, with a little fat especially if your thin already. You need at least 2g of protein per kilo of body weight (whatever that is in pounds), I would go 2 and a half and maybe even 3g for the first few weeks. Some might say this is too much and it will be wasted, but the amount of guys ive seen who stop growing due to lack of protein is huge. Just stay well hydrated.
I wouldnt bother with creatine either. You need to really stay hydrated...like over the top, you should really cycle it for your kidneys too and like GI2EG said, its really hit and miss anyway. Its not worth the volumizing effect and an extra 2 reps in the gym. On the upside it is cheap as and instantly makes your muscles fill out a bit, but I would just take L-Glutamine instead. Far better for you and has a volumising effect on your muscles also though not quite as profound.
06-21-2007, 02:30 PM
What jaydee has just told you works, at least for a while.
Do i think its optimal or necessary? No. Eating all the time is fine when you are very sensitive to insulin (protein spikes insulin levels as well). Eventually, this sensitivity will diminish, and you will find that you'll gain less unless you add more carbohydrate/protein. This can lead to a host of problems down the road.
An alternative is not eating all the time, but still eating the same amount. You can listen to your body. I don't eat for more than an hour (sometimes two) after my workout. And I don't eat within 3 hours of bed. Blasphemy, but my energy levels are high and I still gain muscle, even while training for power rather than big muscles.
It is natural for the body to go through periods of plenty and periods of less-than-plenty. I find I get much higher quality sleep when I go to bed on an empty(ish) stomach.
To each his own, but I try to stick with a more natural style of eating.
"Musts" must be done in order to progress. I workout very hungry. I make gains without eating before bed or eating directly following exercise. Therefore, I conclude that these are not musts.
I try to follow a more natural diet/eating and exercise pattern (i also eat no grains or processed food, and drink no milk). If you want to go the conventional modern bodybuilding route, go ahead, it's your choice. I plan on training for the rest of my life, and such recommendations do not seem conducive to a long, healthy, disease free one.
Obviously whatever jaydee is doing is working for him, as it works for many clients and peers who I do not discuss diet with. I say choose whichever one makes more sense to you.
06-21-2007, 02:52 PM
I dont eat any processed foods either, or very minimal anyway, and I dont touch milk with a barge pole. I think its a major burdon on your body to break down, especially your liver, so I at least agree with you on that.
I agree also that natural is better than chugging down powder all day. Im just saying more along the lines of he might not have time to eat 6 meals a day and get stuck. IMO a shake is better than nothing. Its quite hard to get that kind of protein from meals consistantly without supplementing at all. I certainly couldnt do it.
I also go up to 2 hrs post workout before I have a shake too, nothing wrong with that. A lot of the time even then, downing a big meal doesnt appeal to me and I know I get the absolute most out of a shake that I can get. Its a personal thing, if you can down a meal then by all means do that.
The before bed protein and fat is a "must" in my book, but if going without for 3 hours before bed works for you then keep doing it. But this bloke is thin already and I guarantee you if he did what you do, he would take days and days to recover, and eventually probably burn out. He needs fat to chew on while he sleeps or he will start eating his muscle. Just my opinon.
06-21-2007, 03:10 PM
The reason I say to spread out the food throughout the day is because I dont think you can process more than about 40g of protein at a time and in order to get enough for the day, you would have to be eating a few meals a day to get that in your body.
06-21-2007, 03:31 PM
Yeah, syndrome x diseases, including diabetes.
I've also read studies of increased protein synthesis when protein intake is "pulsated" rather than "dripped". Your body essentially is more ready for the protein, and will put it to better use.
It's a different method of gaining muscle, surely. Certain genes can be activated or "switched on" when the body goes without food for short whiles.
Basically, I believe that its natural and, in fact, optimal, for our body not to have a completely regular food intake.
Note that the whole ballgame changes completely when using exogenous substances.
06-27-2007, 10:20 AM
Great, Thanks alot for the info guys. Ill keep you updated
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