Long time stim user,Body is completing rejecting stimulants- really confused

[resrch3d]

Idk if this is the best spot to put this but this has been an issue I have dealt with now for about 2.5 months and it's got my mind completely.

Back in October I was going about my day, taking some King Cobra as an afternoon pick me up. Been using stims from fatburners and pre workouts since N.O Xplode debued and been using dmaa and exotic stims as they have been released.

Well this day back in October I got a flu shot took a king cobra and about an hour later took am ibuprofen for a headache.... Wasn't more than 20 minutes before I suddenly felt uncomfortable started sweating profusely for about a minute then had the feelings of an anxiety or panic attack accompanied by what seemed like loss of blood flow to my extremeties....my hear rate at rest went up to 130 BPM and my blood pressure was low.

Any way I thought maybe just a bad combination was the issue....nope I haven't been able to handle my typical dosing if caffeine since that day. I had been able to continue taking one serving of re1gn a couple weeks after this incident...now not even that. Anything more than small doses of caffeine or energy blends gives me a panic attack....even when I don't consume any stims if I'm not supplementing with ashwaghanda or something to combat anxiety it seems like my body is fully on edge. I have no clue what's wrong with me at this point. Stopping tianeptine didn't solve anything, low dosing stims worked at first now not really. I'm supplementing ashwaghanda, suntheanine, bacognize bacopa... Still can't use much more than 80 mg caffeine at a time.

Could my adrenals be the issue? My worst fear is I have developed a heart issue that the ER from my October visit wasn't seeing or testing for; or I have something neurologically wrong.

 

[Nickespo89]

Sounds like an Adrenal issue man. Drop caffeine completely. Keep using the theanine, ashwaganda, and bacopa. First I would look into the doses you are taking. See if you need to increase or decrease anything. I would add rhodiola rosea taking anywhere from 300-600mg a day.

Get some p5p co enzyme b6 50-100mg first thing in the morning provides a noticeable focus boost. (Most likely do to it helping with increasing dopamine)

GABA (gamma aminobutyric acid) is like a breaking system for the cns. It helps with relaxing it. Some people feel a sedative effect from it. Some don’t. I personally do unless I take it often. On a empty stomach it can make your skin tingle a little. Similar to how beta alanine feels but not quite the same. 750-1500mg. I prefer taking it at night and would suggest you do the same. I wouldn’t take it Ed for more than 4wks and I would take 4wks off. It’s not the end of the world if you don’t. Some people don’t stop. I highly suggest it.

Have you ever taken Cordyceps? I love them. They can give me a good bit of energy and it doesn’t make me feel jittery. Just good to go and energetic. I have used cordygen5 is a blend and it works better than other products I have tried.

5g scoop of Maca powder in the am. Will also boost sex drive.

Good luck to you Man. Feel free to pm me if you any questions.

 

[resrch3d]

Thanks Nickespo89, some solid advice. I'll take a look at adding these other guys on. Gaba and cordyceps I'm familiar with. I was taking a coedyceps by primaforce for the V02 enhancement, may have to throw that back on. Have some adrenal reset by ctd labs that should be here tomorrow. I am dreading no caffeine for two weeks or longer but I'll do anything at this point to feel like myself again.

 

[u_e_s_i]

Taking a month+ break from stims could help to reset your response to them

 

[resrch3d]

I was looking at things I could further enhance my focus or mental stamina with, if I had to wipe stims out of my daily routine for a while. I really wanted to give BLR Nootrol a go and since it was so low in caffeine but I suppose I should look at entirely Stim free performance for a bit. Maybe a bit of sulbutamine

 

[Smont]

Just seems like you need to take a long break from stims.

Or go harder, try some cocaine pwo

 

[resrch3d]

Just seems like you need to take a long break from stims.

Or go harder, try some cocaine pwo

Lol, I considered Flocka; go so hard I'd blow right through any anxiety...if only it was that easy. I guess I never really thought about it but I have been using stimulants with no solid break for years. I think my last break was for two months in 2009 during basic training. I guess I'm due for another break, I really am hoping that adrenal fatigue is the issue at this point.

 

[Smont]

Ya, your just burnt out

 

[resrch3d]

Trying to caffeine for the 1st day. Even with my anxiolytic supplements I'm still feeling anxious, almost a sensation of feeling light and off balance. This is awful lol, time to throw back some more ashwaghanda

 

[u_e_s_i]

For the stims break tbh you're better of taking literally none. You'll re-adjust faster and realistically if you have a really high tolerance to stims you'll get negligible benefits from <160mg of caffeine

As for the anxiety, if it persists once you've cut the stims you should speak with a psychiatrist. You could be suffering from anxiety in a clinical sense

 

[resrch3d]

For the stims break tbh you're better of taking literally none. You're readjust faster and realistically if you have a really high tolerance to stims you'll get negligible benefits from

I'll aslo say that yeah, I could handle stone galore until the day i ended up in the ER. Now I can't handle hardly a cup of cofee

 

[toddmuelheim]

That's also been my worry is that I have legitimately developed something from a psychological standpoint. Unfortunately can't afford health insurance so I'm really up **** Creek with no paddle. This will definitely be hard to cope with if it's legitimate anxiety.

Do you live or workout with anyone?

 

[resrch3d]

Do you live or workout with anyone?

I have my wife and kids, I lift on my own. Funny thing is, when I'm at the gym this whole full body sensation I have that I guess is anxiety, almost leaves entirely, especially when I take my current supp regimen; as long as I don't take a preworkout. Unfortunately I can't be at the gym all day or would be at this point.

 

[toddmuelheim]

I have my wife and kids, I lift on my own. Funny thing is, when I'm at the gym this whole full body sensation I have that I guess is anxiety, almost leaves entirely, especially when I take my current supp regimen; as long as I don't take a preworkout. Unfortunately I can't be at the gym all day or would be at this point.

Maybe mess around with a placebo test. You could have them keep track of what you’re taking but you wouldn’t know. Might be interesting to see what happens.

 

[BloodManor]

Taking a month+ break from stims could help to reset your response to them

This is your best bet, all stims including soda and tea

 

[u_e_s_i]

I have my wife and kids, I lift on my own. Funny thing is, when I'm at the gym this whole full body sensation I have that I guess is anxiety, almost leaves entirely, especially when I take my current supp regimen; as long as I don't take a preworkout. Unfortunately I can't be at the gym all day or would be at this point.

Two possibilities come to mind which could both be true.

- If you're anxious on the day to day, it's possible you've come to think of the time you spend in the gym as your 'safe time'. Whilst you're there you know what you're doing, you have control, there's no negativity being directed toward you, there's no rush, the time you spend in there is yours. Whilst you're in there, people will leave you be and you feel that you can chase something you truly desire. Only some of the above may be true in your case but it's possible your bodies been conditioned to relax whilst you're at the gym. This conditioning may lie in your subconscious alone and in that case you won't even notice it

- Your body's adjusted to expecting your supps as standard and so it's down regulated everything that'd be covered by your supps, meaning that once supplemented your body performs at or a little above baseline. The body isn't happy with being made to function at supernormal levels by exogenous substances. Past a point, if it's made to believe that the exogenous substances upsetting the body's balance may be harmful to it, the body may learn to 'reject' the substance upon consumption.

What you've said reminds me of how I felt earlier this year. I 'got better' after taking a month long break from all supps (particularly stims, I was on a lot, 7 days a week, no break, I was being stubborn as f***) bar some basics e.g. Creatine, hmb, citrulline Malate, alanine, cla etc I was later also diagnosed with anxiety with the bulk of the diagnosis being retroactive. I've got to say the anxiety prescription have probably helped. Taking some time out after months under a lot of stress probably also helped. In my case the second of the above was the cause.

How long have you been using ashwagandha and other calming supps for? I get the feeling that using ashwagandha etc for longer than the advised 8 weeks could leave people with adverse effects

 

[CompeteNPC]

Do not ever take a pre workout without being properly hydrated and your blood sugar levels at a normal level. Just some advice.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Sounds like you might have had a panic attack and started a vicious cycle of not wanting it to happen again, so you make yourself anxious and the caffeine does the rest. I would take a step back from stimulants and SLOWLY work them back in while you get used to how your body responds now. Sometimes it's something as small as an increase in heart rate or body temp that triggers us to work ourselves into a full panic attack, but the "trick" is to realize that it's a normal (even if scary and uncomfortable) response that will work itself out in a short while. Once you start fighting it, it only gets worse.

 

[resrch3d]

Maybe mess around with a placebo test. You could have them keep track of what you’re taking but you wouldn’t know. Might be interesting to see what happens.

Initially I was thinking it was all in my head. What ever triggered that first response, it took place at work. When I first get to work, even though I have no reason to not be calm I can feel my fight or flight response go into high gear and my body feels uncomfortably anxious, I get a light feeling in my body and a really foggy feeling. I assumed because if what happened my mind was having a recation remembering the panic I felt.

If part of my reactions are subcontious, there isn't much I can do to control that part of my mind. I'm usually very good at talking myself into what ever I need. I usually keep my composure very well and just am calm, so when I can't turn myself down, just adds to the fire. This anxiousness comes and goes in waves it seems like. To some extent my mind could be part of the problem, just no way to control it entirely.

 

[resrch3d]

Two possibilities come to mind which could both be true.

- If you're anxious on the day to day, it's possible you've come to think of the time you spend in the gym as your 'safe time'. Whilst you're there you know what you're doing, you have control, there's no negativity being directed toward you, there's no rush, the time you spend in there is yours. Whilst you're in there, people will leave you be and you feel that you can chase something you truly desire. Only some of the above may be true in your case but it's possible your bodies been conditioned to relax whilst you're at the gym. This conditioning may lie in your subconscious alone and in that case you won't even notice it

- Your body's adjusted to expecting your supps as standard and so it's down regulated everything that'd be covered by your supps, meaning that once supplemented your body performs at or a little above baseline. The body isn't happy with being made to function at supernormal levels by exogenous substances. Past a point, if it's made to believe that the exogenous substances upsetting the body's balance may be harmful to it, the body may learn to 'reject' the substance upon consumption.

What you've said reminds me of how I felt earlier this year. I 'got better' after taking a month long break from all supps (particularly stims, I was on a lot, 7 days a week, no break, I was being stubborn as f***) bar some basics e.g. Creatine, hmb, citrulline Malate, alanine, cla etc I was later also diagnosed with anxiety with the bulk of the diagnosis being retroactive. I've got to say the anxiety prescription have probably helped. Taking some time out after months under a lot of stress probably also helped. In my case the second of the above was the cause.

How long have you been using ashwagandha and other calming supps for? I get the feeling that using ashwagandha etc for longer than the advised 8 weeks could leave people with adverse effects

This makes sense, because it was literally like a switch was flipped on out if no where. The ashwaghanda I took for 3 weeks had about 4 days off and now am taking it again. The bacopa I just started as well as the l-theanine.

The thing a bout the anxious feeling is it's one have little to no control over, as of my subconscious is in control and won't respond to much of what i do.

 

[resrch3d]

Sounds like you might have had a panic attack and started a vicious cycle of not wanting it to happen again, so you make yourself anxious and the caffeine does the rest. I would take a step back from stimulants and SLOWLY work them back in while you get used to how your body responds now. Sometimes it's something as small as an increase in heart rate or body temp that triggers us to work ourselves into a full panic attack, but the "trick" is to realize that it's a normal (even if scary and uncomfortable) response that will work itself out in a short while. Once you start fighting it, it only gets worse.

I was thinking it could have been a panic attack. I honestly was throwing a lot at my body that may have lead to the initial reaction. I was intermittent fasting for a week, and had done so the day of the attack. I had a flu shot and took ibuprofen and taken a BSL king cobra....then the episode came on. I tried half of a dexaprine the day after, the effects started coming 5 minutes later. Felt like a loss of blood in the arms, hands getting cold, started to feel panic. I made myself throw it up and I went back to normal 10 minutes later.

I drank a small red bull today, didn't feel anxious or have any signs of an issue. I took l-theanine and some bacopa at the same time as the red bull. This whole thing has been so weird to deal with. It's like my body is just spazzing out.

 

[Bintherduntht]

Taper off the stims, maybe with green tea. Try a neuroprotective like alpha GPC which will help heal the brain. It's an energy booster physically and mentally, mood inhance, boosts strength etc. You can combine it with a nootropic. If you stay very healthy get out doors and do moderate cardio it should give you more natural energy

 

[Bintherduntht]

Nowadays people are going overboard with these pre workouts. Gotta be careful with that 1,3 dimeth. If I need energy, a cup of black coffee... But really being all around healthy and focusing on that moderate cardio with the weights should help

 

[Aleksandar37]

I was thinking it could have been a panic attack. I honestly was throwing a lot at my body that may have lead to the initial reaction. I was intermittent fasting for a week, and had done so the day of the attack. I had a flu shot and took ibuprofen and taken a BSL king cobra....then the episode came on. I tried half of a dexaprine the day after, the effects started coming 5 minutes later. Felt like a loss of blood in the arms, hands getting cold, started to feel panic. I made myself throw it up and I went back to normal 10 minutes later.

I drank a small red bull today, didn't feel anxious or have any signs of an issue. I took l-theanine and some bacopa at the same time as the red bull. This whole thing has been so weird to deal with. It's like my body is just spazzing out.

I highly recommmend this guy's website (and the book is like $20 if you want more) http://www.anxietycoach.com/anxietytrick.html

The first time I had a major panic attack, I thought I was dying and went to the ER. Spent several years after that working myself back into a panic attack anytime I felt a little hot or lightheaded. It's easier said than done, but it's possible to control them better, especially once you understand what is happening.

 

[Bintherduntht]

Idk if this is the best spot to put this but this has been an issue I have dealt with now for about 2.5 months and it's got my mind completely.

Back in October I was going about my day, taking some King Cobra as an afternoon pick me up. Been using stims from fatburners and pre workouts since N.O Xplode debued and been using dmaa and exotic stims as they have been released.

Well this day back in October I got a flu shot took a king cobra and about an hour later took am ibuprofen for a headache.... Wasn't more than 20 minutes before I suddenly felt uncomfortable started sweating profusely for about a minute then had the feelings of an anxiety or panic attack accompanied by what seemed like loss of blood flow to my extremeties....my hear rate at rest went up to 130 BPM and my blood pressure was low.

Any way I thought maybe just a bad combination was the issue....nope I haven't been able to handle my typical dosing if caffeine since that day. I had been able to continue taking one serving of re1gn a couple weeks after this incident...now not even that. Anything more than small doses of caffeine or energy blends gives me a panic attack....even when I don't consume any stims if I'm not supplementing with ashwaghanda or something to combat anxiety it seems like my body is fully on edge. I have no clue what's wrong with me at this point. Stopping tianeptine didn't solve anything, low dosing stims worked at first now not really. I'm supplementing ashwaghanda, suntheanine, bacognize bacopa... Still can't use much more than 80 mg caffeine at a time.

Could my adrenals be the issue? My worst fear is I have developed a heart issue that the ER from my October visit wasn't seeing or testing for; or I have something neurologically wrong.

Sorry, forgot. The alpha GPC will also help with anxiety. L-theanine WORKS WONDERS for calming/anxiety. No xanax needed lol

 

[Bintherduntht]

Idk if this is the best spot to put this but this has been an issue I have dealt with now for about 2.5 months and it's got my mind completely.

Back in October I was going about my day, taking some King Cobra as an afternoon pick me up. Been using stims from fatburners and pre workouts since N.O Xplode debued and been using dmaa and exotic stims as they have been released.

Well this day back in October I got a flu shot took a king cobra and about an hour later took am ibuprofen for a headache.... Wasn't more than 20 minutes before I suddenly felt uncomfortable started sweating profusely for about a minute then had the feelings of an anxiety or panic attack accompanied by what seemed like loss of blood flow to my extremeties....my hear rate at rest went up to 130 BPM and my blood pressure was low.

Any way I thought maybe just a bad combination was the issue....nope I haven't been able to handle my typical dosing if caffeine since that day. I had been able to continue taking one serving of re1gn a couple weeks after this incident...now not even that. Anything more than small doses of caffeine or energy blends gives me a panic attack....even when I don't consume any stims if I'm not supplementing with ashwaghanda or something to combat anxiety it seems like my body is fully on edge. I have no clue what's wrong with me at this point. Stopping tianeptine didn't solve anything, low dosing stims worked at first now not really. I'm supplementing ashwaghanda, suntheanine, bacognize bacopa... Still can't use much more than 80 mg caffeine at a time.

Could my adrenals be the issue? My worst fear is I have developed a heart issue that the ER from my October visit wasn't seeing or testing for; or I have something neurologically wrong.

Dude, I know I've commented enough lmao. Look up what's in a flu shot. I haven't had one since the army and it gave me swine flu. As a kid always getting "vaccines" always sick af. Listen to your body. Don't go overboard on all the crap in the mags. Remember celltech? Just pure sugar. Be healthy meaning fruits, veggies, lean meats, non processed foods. Eat organic your body will thank you

 

[Aleksandar37]

Dude, I know I've commented enough lmao. Look up what's in a flu shot.

No ingredients in a flu shot will cause the symptoms he listed.

 

[CompeteNPC]

Sounds like you might have had a panic attack and started a vicious cycle of not wanting it to happen again, so you make yourself anxious and the caffeine does the rest. I would take a step back from stimulants and SLOWLY work them back in while you get used to how your body responds now. Sometimes it's something as small as an increase in heart rate or body temp that triggers us to work ourselves into a full panic attack, but the "trick" is to realize that it's a normal (even if scary and uncomfortable) response that will work itself out in a short while. Once you start fighting it, it only gets worse.

Correct. I’ve unfortunately had this horrible experience a few times to the point where I went up to a trainer and told him something was not right and I thought I may be in the beginning stages of a heart attack. After sitting down, getting some aminos in me and a little sugar along with a snack such as a banana it went away. These always took place after a night of drinking. Hence one of the reasons I rarely drink alcohol anymore. It also happened because of me thinking about it happening way too deeply before they began. I associated drinking along with taking pre workout the day after with panic attacks. When I thought that way the panic attacks always seemed to kick in.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Correct. I’ve unfortunately had this horrible experience a few times to the point where I went up to a trainer and told him something was not right and I thought I may be in the beginning stages of a heart attack. After sitting down, getting some aminos in me and a little sugar along with a snack such as a banana it went away. These always took place after a night of drinking. Hence one of the reasons I rarely drink alcohol anymore. It also happened because of me thinking about it happening way too deeply before they began. I associated drinking along with taking pre workout the day after with panic attacks. When I thought that way the panic attacks always seemed to kick in.

It's for people who haven't had them to understand that even though it's "all in your head", it's still quite real and scary!

 

[resrch3d]

The last episode I hade was two Saturdays ago. I was able to keep using reg1n as my preworkout and I would take it if I needed a boost. I took a scoop...about 40 minutes to an hour later I had a full blown anxiety meltdown. Cold extremeties and I couldn't stop pacing around, I was also having this doomed feeling and my mind was racing. I was thinking things completely illogical, like I wouldn't be in control of my actions for some reason ....I saw a glimpse of a scene from frosty the snow man.. the character saying think nasty think nasty think nasty over and over completely overwhelmed me. I couldn't do anything to stop it and had to let it run its course.
I have always been a rather healthy individual with no medical issues , so this is completely terrible to me and annoying that I keep feeling weird at randomn with little control over it.

 

[CompeteNPC]

It's for people who haven't had them to understand that even though it's "all in your head", it's still quite real and scary!

The worst is when you get cotton mouth so bad you can’t swallow.

 

[Bintherduntht]

No ingredients in a flu shot will cause the symptoms he listed.

You're right. Just saying haven't had a flu shot in 10 years... Never had the flu since then.

 

[Bintherduntht]

Eat organic. Eat healthy. Moderate cardio in fresh air. Sleep. Take your vits. Stop drinking these magazine concoctions. I'm telling you the body will produce more energy and stamina on it's own!

 

[Bintherduntht]

Idk if this is the best spot to put this but this has been an issue I have dealt with now for about 2.5 months and it's got my mind completely.

Back in October I was going about my day, taking some King Cobra as an afternoon pick me up. Been using stims from fatburners and pre workouts since N.O Xplode debued and been using dmaa and exotic stims as they have been released.

Well this day back in October I got a flu shot took a king cobra and about an hour later took am ibuprofen for a headache.... Wasn't more than 20 minutes before I suddenly felt uncomfortable started sweating profusely for about a minute then had the feelings of an anxiety or panic attack accompanied by what seemed like loss of blood flow to my extremeties....my hear rate at rest went up to 130 BPM and my blood pressure was low.

Any way I thought maybe just a bad combination was the issue....nope I haven't been able to handle my typical dosing if caffeine since that day. I had been able to continue taking one serving of re1gn a couple weeks after this incident...now not even that. Anything more than small doses of caffeine or energy blends gives me a panic attack....even when I don't consume any stims if I'm not supplementing with ashwaghanda or something to combat anxiety it seems like my body is fully on edge. I have no clue what's wrong with me at this point. Stopping tianeptine didn't solve anything, low dosing stims worked at first now not really. I'm supplementing ashwaghanda, suntheanine, bacognize bacopa... Still can't use much more than 80 mg caffeine at a time.

Could my adrenals be the issue? My worst fear is I have developed a heart issue that the ER from my October visit wasn't seeing or testing for; or I have something neurologically wrong.

Drink that green tea brother. Very low caffeine content 35mg with theanine to relax and calm you. Great for immune system and overall health. Taper... Not cold turkey

 

[Bintherduntht]

Taper...

 

[Aleksandar37]

Drink that green tea brother. Very low caffeine content 35mg with theanine to relax and calm you. Great for immune system and overall health. Taper... Not cold turkey

Not a bad idea. Too much caffeine and I'm in a panic attack; too little caffeine and I'll get a migraine. It's a constant balance of trying to keep it just right.

 

[resrch3d]

Thought id update this for anyone that goes through similar issues or has anxiety.

My issue is a from of anxiety, as far as what's been identified. The cause isn't known. I'm making my own hypothesis, and it's safe to say all the different things I've put my body through may have finally broke my mind. Long term stimulant use is prob a big culprit. Thinking my mind and body were invincible to what I was doing. Lots of stims is prob only one cause but I have gone months and was giving up on finding anything to bring me back even close to sanity before starting an antibiotic anxiety med, being able to focus on tasks without being anxious has been a struggle. My mind is not necessarily anxious at all times but my body is. It's one of many odd sensations I've encountered...

One remedy so far has been interchanging, what I thought I'd never try again, phenibut; Combined with l thenaine and placed into a regimen to not cause dependance or withdraw. I have had some good results the longer I am working with phenibut and l thenaine. On my days off phenibut I still dose thenaine and find myself being able to handle things like red bull. For somome who went from dosing products like gaspari detonate beyond the label doses and still taking preworkouts to not being able to handle a single cup of coffee, this has been huge for me.

If anyone else suffers from anxiety or goes through anything similar to me, this may be of help.

Appreciate all the advice I got on here from everyone too