Staggering carbs of various GI, fiber, complexity in meals

  1. New Member
    sheepdog.tx's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  155 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    268
    Rep Power
    9745
    Level
    14
    Lv. Percent
    76.56%

    Staggering carbs of various GI, fiber, complexity in meals


    So heard its best to have a mix of various foods in a meal vs one to two that might digest very slow or fast. And like most people I enjoy variety. So ive alway tried to mix a plat of 5 to 6 veggies and complex starches for a wide profile. For exsmple maybe a semi-complex rice like black rice with long grain brown basmati, or green lentals with some lima beans, as well as good sources of green veggies.

    So question is what defines a foods digestion speed into macro nutrients? And what factor makes a good complex carb complex? Is it the its restitance starch (ie a fluffy powdery baked potato vs one cooked waxy), its GI impact, its GI load, its fiber, something to do with chain length? Would be good to know, maybe so we can make a master list. Something to say hey sure whole wheat pasta is better than white pasta but not ad good as black beans which are stilll not as good as a plantain or so on.

  2. Professional Member
    pyrobatt's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  241 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,485
    Rep Power
    1214965
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    18.21%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog.tx View Post
    So heard its best to have a mix of various foods in a meal vs one to two that might digest very slow or fast. And like most people I enjoy variety. So ive alway tried to mix a plat of 5 to 6 veggies and complex starches for a wide profile. For exsmple maybe a semi-complex rice like black rice with long grain brown basmati, or green lentals with some lima beans, as well as good sources of green veggies.

    So question is what defines a foods digestion speed into macro nutrients? And what factor makes a good complex carb complex? Is it the its restitance starch (ie a fluffy powdery baked potato vs one cooked waxy), its GI impact, its GI load, its fiber, something to do with chain length? Would be good to know, maybe so we can make a master list. Something to say hey sure whole wheat pasta is better than white pasta but not ad good as black beans which are stilll not as good as a plantain or so on.

    Okay..gi will have no effect on fat loss or storage.
    Complex carbs vs quick carbs doesn't matter.

    It ALL is glucose ,glycogen stores or amino acids at the end of the day. Truely doesn't matter.

    Enjoy food. Don't over think.
    I eat fruit every day 2x a day. I eat high fructose corn syurp.

    Look..most of the studies done on fat loss ect are geared twords sedentary people.

    Train hard,lift heavy, stop over thinking.
    Representative of Chaos and Pain, LLC
    https://www.facebook.com/ChaosAndPain Like us on facebook!
    http://www.chaosandpain.com/
  3. New Member
    sheepdog.tx's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  155 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    268
    Rep Power
    9745
    Level
    14
    Lv. Percent
    76.56%

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Okay..gi will have no effect on fat loss or storage.
    Complex carbs vs quick carbs doesn't matter.

    It ALL is glucose ,glycogen stores or amino acids at the end of the day. Truely doesn't matter.

    Enjoy food. Don't over think.
    I eat fruit every day 2x a day. I eat high fructose corn syurp.

    Look..most of the studies done on fat loss ect are geared twords sedentary people.

    Train hard,lift heavy, stop over thinking.
    Couple of issues here:

    1.) Fructose is crap IIRC. Once liver glycogen is full turns to fat instead of going to muscle glycogen. From 2007 American Society for Clinical Nutrition

    "How bad is fructose?" byGeorge A Bray

    "In one study, the consumption of high-fructose meals reduced 24-h plasma insulin and leptin concentrations and increased postprandial fasting triacylglycerols in women, but it did not suppress circulating ghrelin, a major appetite-stimulating hormone (4).

    Fructose is metabolized, primarily in the liver, by phosphorylation on the 1-position, a process that bypasses the rate-limiting phosphofructokinase step (4). Hepatic metabolism of fructose thus favors lipogenesis, and it is not surprising that several studies have found changes in circulating lipids when subjects eat high-fructose diets"

    2.) GI has a huge impact on fat levels depending on glycogen uptake. Not saying im an expert here but enough to call BS on the GI argument. If for no other reason resistance starch and fiber make a huge difference in carbs. My question is whats the magic ratios for comparing all the options.

    3.) While your points on sedentary people are true for the most part we're only active part of the day. Post workout all those carbs still take time to break down, many outside the leucine/insulin spike of the meal. Again I know I'm no rocket surgeon but pretty sure taking in 300g of dextrose in an hour is different than 300g of black beans.

    With all that said no offense meant, just think there is validity in trying to look for the most sensible source of carbs. :\
    •   
       

  4. Professional Member
    pyrobatt's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  241 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,485
    Rep Power
    1214965
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    18.21%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog.tx View Post

    Couple of issues here:

    1.) Fructose is crap IIRC. Once liver glycogen is full turns to fat instead of going to muscle glycogen. From 2007 American Society for Clinical Nutrition

    "How bad is fructose?" byGeorge A Bray

    "In one study, the consumption of high-fructose meals reduced 24-h plasma insulin and leptin concentrations and increased postprandial fasting triacylglycerols in women, but it did not suppress circulating ghrelin, a major appetite-stimulating hormone (4).

    Fructose is metabolized, primarily in the liver, by phosphorylation on the 1-position, a process that bypasses the rate-limiting phosphofructokinase step (4). Hepatic metabolism of fructose thus favors lipogenesis, and it is not surprising that several studies have found changes in circulating lipids when subjects eat high-fructose diets"

    2.) GI has a huge impact on fat levels depending on glycogen uptake. Not saying im an expert here but enough to call BS on the GI argument. If for no other reason resistance starch and fiber make a huge difference in carbs. My question is whats the magic ratios for comparing all the options.

    3.) While your points on sedentary people are true for the most part we're only active part of the day. Post workout all those carbs still take time to break down, many outside the leucine/insulin spike of the meal. Again I know I'm no rocket surgeon but pretty sure taking in 300g of dextrose in an hour is different than 300g of black beans.

    With all that said no offense meant, just think there is validity in trying to look for the most sensible source of carbs. :\
    1. That study referenced was irrelevant. Why? Because the body doesn't care if the fructose is fructose or oatmeal. Its glucose at the end of the day. That one study doesnt change science. Just like protein is not sucked up by your muscles in 30 minutes like some companies advertise.
    Liver glycogen is full constantly due to a calorie surplus. Read up on gluconeogenisis. Amino acids can and do also convert to glucose..so does oatmeal. Including bcaas.
    In a calorie deficit it can also be full.

    2.glycemic index is broken even for diabetics which is the primary use. See number 1. I never said fiber isn't important.

    3. Do you lift weights 2 to 6 x a week? CONGRATZ! You're not considered sedentary. Even at rest* sleep watching tv..ect* you are still improving the function of your body and health. This includes being more proficient at things like fatloss and building muscle over time. Even while we are working out we are digesting. Yes you are right..its different but it ends the same
    Representative of Chaos and Pain, LLC
    https://www.facebook.com/ChaosAndPain Like us on facebook!
    http://www.chaosandpain.com/
  5. New Member
    jjobe6's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    234
    Rep Power
    97946
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    67.08%

    Name:  ForumRunner_20140113_214557.png
Views: 132
Size:  261.5 KB
  6. New Member
    jjobe6's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    234
    Rep Power
    97946
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    67.08%

    More recently, Raatz & colleagues conducted*a parallel-design, randomized 12-week controlled feeding trial, testing the effect of GI and GL on*weight loss*[14].*The controlled period was followed by a*24-week*"free living"*phase, in which subjects were instructed to continue their respective dietary treatments outside of lab-supervised conditions. Manipulation of GI & GL failed to make a dent in both experimental phases. As a result of the 36-week trial, the researchers conclude:*"In summary, lowering the glycemic load and glycemic index of weight reduction diets does not provide any added benefit to energy restriction in promoting weight loss in obese subjects."

    Taken from
    http://alanaragon.com/glycemic-index
  7. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,667
    Rep Power
    6857186
    Level
    99
    Lv. Percent
    43.38%
    Achievements Posting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Okay..gi will have no effect on fat loss or storage.
    Complex carbs vs quick carbs doesn't matter.

    It ALL is glucose ,glycogen stores or amino acids at the end of the day. Truely doesn't matter.

    Enjoy food. Don't over think.
    I eat fruit every day 2x a day. I eat high fructose corn syurp.

    Look..most of the studies done on fat loss ect are geared twords sedentary people.

    Train hard,lift heavy, stop over thinking.
    A supp-sectioner who actually understands nutrition in all its facets. I've seen multiple great posts by you in these sections. Kudos
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  8. New Member
    sheepdog.tx's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  155 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    268
    Rep Power
    9745
    Level
    14
    Lv. Percent
    76.56%

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    A supp-sectioner who actually understands nutrition in all its facets. I've seen multiple great posts by you in these sections. Kudos
    Point taken, maybe I am overthinking this.
  9. Senior Member
    ricroc's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  191 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,205
    Rep Power
    3030544
    Level
    65
    Lv. Percent
    36.94%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    A supp-sectioner who actually understands nutrition in all its facets. I've seen multiple great posts by you in these sections. Kudos
    Agreed. Pryobatt always has good info and a nice break down of what to do.
  10. Professional Member
    pyrobatt's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  241 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,485
    Rep Power
    1214965
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    18.21%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by ricroc View Post

    Agreed. Pryobatt always has good info and a nice break down of what to do.
    I have alot of free time to read and post. Between legal documents haha!

    Always willing. Mite even offer coaching free one day.
    Representative of Chaos and Pain, LLC
    https://www.facebook.com/ChaosAndPain Like us on facebook!
    http://www.chaosandpain.com/
  11. Elite Member
    booneman77's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    5,655
    Rep Power
    5403518
    Level
    87
    Lv. Percent
    72.95%
    Achievements Posting AuthorityActivity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    I have alot of free time to read and post. Between legal documents haha! Always willing. Mite even offer coaching free one day.
    I think you'd have a line at your door for that one. I know I'd try to get in on some free coaching from a solid source
    It's BULKING season: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/254139-swol-boones-quest.html
  12. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    The Solution's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    11,264
    Rep Power
    7945718
    Level
    102
    Lv. Percent
    81.95%
    Achievements Posting VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Okay..gi will have no effect on fat loss or storage.
    Complex carbs vs quick carbs doesn't matter.

    It ALL is glucose ,glycogen stores or amino acids at the end of the day. Truely doesn't matter.

    Enjoy food. Don't over think.
    I eat fruit every day 2x a day. I eat high fructose corn syurp.

    Look..most of the studies done on fat loss ect are geared twords sedentary people.

    Train hard,lift heavy, stop over thinking.
    This x 100
    meet calories
    meet protein intake
    meet fiber intake
    meet fat intake
    Profit.
    Team Inov8 Elite Performance
  13. Senior Member
    bla55's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,776
    Rep Power
    71175
    Level
    33
    Lv. Percent
    50.99%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Alright, so, with all of this in mind, is CBL then completely bogus?

    I honestly have had my best results doings CBL, no food until 2PM, then I have lunch filled with veggies, greens, and fatty protein, drenched in olive oil. Leave all my carbs for after workout, eating a sh!tload of sugar, white rice, white bread, and lean meats with little fat.

    So, what's the deal here?
    Androhard + Andromass Log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/182038-so-i-decided.html
  14. Elite Member
    booneman77's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    5,655
    Rep Power
    5403518
    Level
    87
    Lv. Percent
    72.95%
    Achievements Posting AuthorityActivity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by bla55 View Post
    Alright, so, with all of this in mind, is CBL then completely bogus?

    I honestly have had my best results doings CBL, no food until 2PM, then I have lunch filled with veggies, greens, and fatty protein, drenched in olive oil. Leave all my carbs for after workout, eating a sh!tload of sugar, white rice, white bread, and lean meats with little fat.

    So, what's the deal here?
    You answered your own question there ha... It can't be completely bogus if it works for YOU. The thing is that it may not work for everyone.

    What they said above though is that all of these carb forms end up as glucose so it makes less difference which they are to start with. The big selling point of CBL is that you CAN eat the junk, contrary to popular bb lore. For other benefits, it doesn't make much sense, but that doesn't mean your fat burning will stop just because you chose white rice vs brown.
  15. New Member
    keithgeiling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    181
    Rep Power
    14600
    Level
    12
    Lv. Percent
    86.16%

    This is a very interesting thread.. I have heard the argument before on white vs brown but I am asking, isn't the white starches what causes more insulin release and more potential for fat storage????? I would like to hear more on this as it can drastically improve my food choices. Lol.
  16. New Member
    jjobe6's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    234
    Rep Power
    97946
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    67.08%

    To paraphrase there is not one type of carb that will make gain fat. Eating too much makes you fat. So if you like white rice eat it. Plus brown rice contains phytic acid. Which makes certain minerals unabsorbable.
  17. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    The Solution's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    11,264
    Rep Power
    7945718
    Level
    102
    Lv. Percent
    81.95%
    Achievements Posting VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity Royalty

    Quote Originally Posted by bla55 View Post
    Alright, so, with all of this in mind, is CBL then completely bogus?

    I honestly have had my best results doings CBL, no food until 2PM, then I have lunch filled with veggies, greens, and fatty protein, drenched in olive oil. Leave all my carbs for after workout, eating a sh!tload of sugar, white rice, white bread, and lean meats with little fat.

    So, what's the deal here?
    its not bogus.
    how you allot your intake is personal preference.
    Total Kcals is what determines your goal.
    Team Inov8 Elite Performance
  18. Professional Member
    pyrobatt's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  241 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,485
    Rep Power
    1214965
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    18.21%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by keithgeiling View Post
    This is a very interesting thread.. I have heard the argument before on white vs brown but I am asking, isn't the white starches what causes more insulin release and more potential for fat storage????? I would like to hear more on this as it can drastically improve my food choices. Lol.
    Total caloric intake is responsible for fat storage. Insulin is a healthy response. White rice is not the devil. Make sure to get fiber though.
    Representative of Chaos and Pain, LLC
    https://www.facebook.com/ChaosAndPain Like us on facebook!
    http://www.chaosandpain.com/
  19. Senior Member
    ricroc's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  191 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,205
    Rep Power
    3030544
    Level
    65
    Lv. Percent
    36.94%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    As I get back into the groove once again, this thread has been helpful.

    We all need a good K.I.S.S. reminder now and then.
  20. New Member
    keithgeiling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    181
    Rep Power
    14600
    Level
    12
    Lv. Percent
    86.16%

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Total caloric intake is responsible for fat storage. Insulin is a healthy response. White rice is not the devil. Make sure to get fiber though.
    I definitely don't get enough fiber but as I sit here eating my pb sandwich, I am drinking whole chocolate milk.. So the sugar in it shouldn't concern me as I am getting my cals and macros at end of day? And I'm not in search of a white rice answer because I like brown, but I would love me some chicken Lipton rice packets?? I have learned a lot the last few years on this sight and still learning. I always say to my wife that I don't need a Trainer, Nutritionist, or a doctor cause I have AM!!! I read a lot of your threads and if you start coaching, I will be first in line.. I also think The Solution knows his **** and I take notice when he posts!! Sometimes I find myself paralysis by analysis though?
  21. Professional Member
    pyrobatt's Avatar
    Stats
    6'5"  241 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,485
    Rep Power
    1214965
    Level
    59
    Lv. Percent
    18.21%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by keithgeiling View Post
    I definitely don't get enough fiber but as I sit here eating my pb sandwich, I am drinking whole chocolate milk.. So the sugar in it shouldn't concern me as I am getting my cals and macros at end of day? And I'm not in search of a white rice answer because I like brown, but I would love me some chicken Lipton rice packets?? I have learned a lot the last few years on this sight and still learning. I always say to my wife that I don't need a Trainer, Nutritionist, or a doctor cause I have AM!!! I read a lot of your threads and if you start coaching, I will be first in line.. I also think The Solution knows his **** and I take notice when he posts!! Sometimes I find myself paralysis by analysis though?
    Sugar is not the devil. Its a little nutritionally empty but nothing to worry about. I keep my sugar 200g and under. This is more about nutrition than worrying about my abs disappearing.

    You're not sedentary. Stop worrying about sugar. Start worrying about dem gains!

    The only thing I realy avoid like the plague is man made transfat. The fda is worried now. 1 confirmed case of .....what they call.."diet induced heart disease" this "study" was done on a man for 10 years. 2003 to 2013. He was sedentary*someone involved in the study I believe*. Had a controlled diet for the whole 10 years. He had to have atleast 1g per day of non natural transfat.

    May be bs but many other resources say stay away. From bros to mds.
    Representative of Chaos and Pain, LLC
    https://www.facebook.com/ChaosAndPain Like us on facebook!
    http://www.chaosandpain.com/
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-12-2011, 09:28 AM
  2. carb complex in asgt
    By Young Gotti in forum LG Sciences
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-09-2010, 04:30 PM
  3. how many cycles of 4 on 4 off in a row?
    By albanese9 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-22-2004, 04:45 PM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-09-2003, 01:55 PM
  5. Retention times of various foods in stomach.
    By ex_banana-eater in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-01-2003, 09:50 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in